Supra Saltare in France

[Sdc77]

Hello everybody !

I'm a happy new owner of a 1989 SALTARE, the unique piece here in France ! I got it last weekend and tested it in water 2 days ago (10°C outside, 5°C in water ...)
It comes with the 454ci, has 292 hours, is in good overall condition.
I just need to clean the vinyl, carpet and polish the hull.

I need also to check/change to steering cable, it's very hard to turn even when the boat is stopped. I will rebuild the wood floor hatch beind the engine box, it start to be flexible. I will use PVC for this part. Floors and stringers looks perfect even arround the engine bolts.

The boat will be mainly used for wakeboarding. I plan to put on it a Monster MT2 tower with racks and mirror. A complete BOSS audio marine hifi : head unit, 4x 6"½ round speakers in the boat, 4x 6"x9" oval speakers on tower in a home made box, a subwoofer in enclosure.
If I have more money, I plan to wrap it ...

I will also do some mods on the trailer as here in France, trailers looks horrific !

Here are few pisc of that monster, I will post many others as soon as I start to work on it :

8344834583468347

Stephane

[wotan2525]

Congrats! The boat looks beautfiul. Welcome to the site!

That trailer is at least 4' too short. I think it might be reasonable to assume that the axles are too light for that boat?? It's a heavy beast!

[Sdc77]

That's how every boat trailers look like here in France. It's the good one for this boat. But in fact it looks too short, because we use a removable light ramp instead of longer trailer with integrated lights. We don't have here painted trailers, chrome wheel, led lights, disc brakes etc. It's forbiden !!! We are just 30 years in late comparring US :(
Anyway this trailer is ok for this boat, rating 2700kg, it's stable @ 130km/h so no problem. It's just uggly and I plan to customize it : 15" tunning wheel, new painted fender, integrated lights and maybe a new paint.

What is your fuel consumption with this boat ? Mine is going 1900rpm @ 31km/h

Cheers

[wotan2525]

I think we've got a language issue -- fuel consumption here is how many gallons that I use? I think I'm right around 6-7/hour for wakeboarding. Slightly less for surfing.

[Sdc77]

Yes, forgive my poor English.
I was looking at the fuel consumption. I gave you the speed and rpm to see if your 6-7 GPH is because of different propeller than mine.
I bought this boat because it's been 3 years i'm wakeboarding behind a friend's Mastercraft X35 (of 2009) with 8.2L 450hp engine. He wants to sell it this winter, so I looked for an as roomy and confortable boat, for 8-10 people with good wake. The X35 3 tons monster drinks 35L/h. It ran 31km/h @ 2800rpm.
I hope my Saltare will burn less fuel. Here 1L of unleaded 95 octane (RON 95, MON 85) fuel (E10, 10% ethanol) is 1.48€

I will calculate it next season, but if it's over 25LPH, I will think about swaping the 454 for a 350 ... We (my friends and I) do 100 hours per year of wakeboarding, so I really need an efficient boat. I don't plan to ballast it, or maybe to clean the wake (with iron cast pieces), but we often are 7-8 people onboard and the actual wake seems cool for us.

What wakeboard tower model do you have on yours ?

[86 century]

Nice ride
1.48€ is that euros

I have found that in a boat the larger engines can somtimes be more efficiant as they not working as hard.
You will probably end up using close to the same amount of fuel. It takes the same amout of energy to move your boat a given speed at a given load regardless of how its powerd.

By the way if you ditch the bb Im sure somone would take all that old junky stuff off of you hads.

[Sdc77]

Yes, 1.48€ is 1.48 euros for 1L. Means 8 USD per gallon.
That's also why 454 are not popular in France.

Yes I understand that fact that boats are completly different than cars wich need very few gas to keep high speed. The more speed and load, the more fuel you burn on water. To keep same perf with a 350, I will need a smaller pitch propeller, then more RPM, then more fuel ...

Is there a way to make the 454 more efficient ? It already has an electronic ignition with high perf wires. I read that holley carbs are hard to rebuild and tune, and Edelbrock are easier and use less gas. Is that a fact ?

[Jetlink]

I read that holley carbs are hard to rebuild and tune, and Edelbrock are easier and use less gas. Is that a fact ? Probably comparing apples to oranges here as I have a comp and therefore not a 454 but, I did swap my carb this summer from the Holley to an Edelbrock and I appear to be using less gas than I was with the Holley. I did not change anything else either. Take it for what it is worth but my gas usage did go down slightly.

[86 century]

I personaly prefer hollys(years of drag racing)mostly because I am use to them.

For day to day driving and drivablity most prefer the edelbrock as they tend to be less finiky about air temp and humidity.

Somthing that may help is if you can get a quadrajet they where used on mercruiser for decades even a 325hp BB chevy.

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys for your advise. The Edelbrock will be THE option when the Holley will strat need rebuilding.
But it's not for now. It's time now for ugrading this beast with a tower, soundi system, and winterizing.

Cheers

[TitanTn]

What do you tow with? I always picture France with only small cars. Obviously that's not the only choice, but I'm just curious as to the towing options you do have.

[Sdc77]

To Bring back the boat to home I used my company's truck, it's a 2010 VW Crafter, TDI 136hp. Enough for towing, but I seriously doubt it can pull out the boat from water.
I had 2 jeep Grand Cherokee ZJ v8 to towe my last boats. They were both LPG equipped. I will look at one other if I burn the Crafter's clutch.

Most of towing cars here in France are big turbo diesel sedan, like BMW, Mercedes, small and big 4x4. Pickup are not popular here, comes with small anemic diesel engines and are expensive.

I'm definetly not born in the good country ;)

[docdrs]

Yes, forgive my poor English.
I was looking at the fuel consumption. I gave you the speed and rpm to see if your 6-7 GPH is because of different propeller than mine.
I bought this boat because it's been 3 years i'm wakeboarding behind a friend's Mastercraft X35 (of 2009) with 8.2L 450hp engine. He wants to sell it this winter, so I looked for an as roomy and confortable boat, for 8-10 people with good wake. The X35 3 tons monster drinks 35L/h. It ran 31km/h @ 2800rpm.
I hope my Saltare will burn less fuel. Here 1L of unleaded 95 octane (RON 95, MON 85) fuel (E10, 10% ethanol) is 1.48€

I will calculate it next season, but if it's over 25LPH, I will think about swaping the 454 for a 350 ... We (my friends and I) do 100 hours per year of wakeboarding, so I really need an efficient boat. I don't plan to ballast it, or maybe to clean the wake (with iron cast pieces), but we often are 7-8 people onboard and the actual wake seems cool for us.

What wakeboard tower model do you have on yours ?

The x35 is a monster and the 8.1 (496)a beast on gas but it is multi port fuel injected. Your 454 is smaller (7.4) but carburated and less efficient. Your boat is lighter I believe so I would guess its going to use a little less LPH but not much. I bet your going to see 28-30LPH at best but it all depends on ballast and I hope I'm wrong and you do see less than 25.

[Sdc77]

Ok we'll see. I will start to ride it arround April, so I have time to worry about fuel consumption ;)
I plan to put it out of water tomorrow, wash and winterize it. I will take many pics of it to share here.
Good weekend to everyone

Stephane

[docdrs]

Oh by the way.....welcome to the forum :)

[Sdc77]

Thanks Doug :)

One question : Does anyone entirely remove the fixed plate flap and see any difference in the wake size ?

8349

[Dtha]

I would leave it on, just adjust it upwads a bit.

But on a different note, good god is that trailer sketchy. I get uneasy when my comp is a few inches unloaded......

[Jetlink]

I would leave it on, just adjust it upwads a bit.

But on a different note, good god is that trailer sketchy. I get uneasy when my comp is a few inches unloaded...... Looks like the trailer was cut where we would normally see a prop and rudder guard.

[Sdc77]

No prop guard on any model of trailer here. Don't worry, it's really like that we tow boats in France. Every trailer look like that. With a removable light ramp instead of prop guard.
I agree it looks awful, but it's solid and stable. Even a brand new boat will be sold with this kind of trailer.
Take a look on this link :

http://www.leboncoin.fr/nautisme/248800553.htm?ca=12_s

[TitanTn]

Obviously what you say is true, but why is it this way? What is the reasoning for not supporting the last couple feet of the boat? Is it different for a stern drive boat? I could see someone making an arguement for a center mounted engine, but in a v drive or stern drive, this is where all you weight is. Just curious about the purpose of a shortie trailer.

[Sdc77]

Reason is simple : All our trailers are universal. We don't have dedicated trailer to each boat. A trailer is made for maximum indicated weight and average lenght. For exemple, my trailer is made for 2500kg boat from 5m to 7m. Means a 5m boat will look like to small for that trailer, 6m will look perfect and 7m too long.
Anyway you focus on a real problem here in Europe : Trailers are 30 years in late comparing USA. And it will not change till many years IMO.

I went back from the boat, I visit it because alot of rain last night. I started it, ok it fires after 2 tries. It runs good at idle, but takes a very long time before I can rise RPM. When I accelerate, the engine clogged.
Problem of choke ? It's an electrical choke on my carburetor

[TitanTn]

I see. I guess it's a good universal solution, but as you say, Europe has some catching up to do.

So it's taking a long time to warm up? If you've let the engine get warm, it likely is not the choke, but the carb itself. Has it been sitting for any length of time? Was it winterized? It's not uncommon for these carbs to need a rebuild every few years or so. You might be due.

[Sdc77]

After warm up, it takes rpm, but I find the warm up time long (about 15-20min). Maybe I still have in mind the MPI engine of the X35 and it's easy start.
I don't know if it has been winterized or not, in good way or not. I only know that the engine was full of antifreeze when I visit it the first time. As soon as I put it out of water I will open the carb and check it.
Thanks for your help ;)

[wotan2525]

My edelbrock carb uses significantly less fuel than the holley that was originally on there. Performance seems comparable.

If you're looking to only wakeboard, repitching the prop will save you a lot of fuel but will cut your maximum speed dramatically. It's a trade-off that you would have to make and it sounds like it would be worthwhile.

The boat shouldn't be any harder to start than a fuel-injected model. Mine starts just as easy and quickly as all of my friends newer boats.... unless it floods which will leave me sitting for 10 minutes trying to patiently allow the fuel to evaporate. Obviously, FI boats don't have this problem.

[Sdc77]

Hi Wotan,
My engine starts easyly, but if I try to accelerate before 15-20min, it clogged. Maybe the electrical choke is dead and locked in open position ? I will check it next time.

What is your Edelbrock model ? Does it fit directly on the intake manifold or is there some mods to do ?

[Jetlink]

Hi Wotan,
My engine starts easyly, but if I try to accelerate before 15-20min, it clogged. Maybe the electrical choke is dead and locked in open position ? I will check it next time.

What is your Edelbrock model ? Does it fit directly on the intake manifold or is there some mods to do ?When you advance the throttle, are you applying smooth increase or opening it rapidly? Does it stumble coming off idle such as bogging down and then take off? If so, it could either be fuel related or spark related. When I first got my boat, it would stumble coming off idle. Did a tune up and found that the plugs were gapped incorrectly and the timing was way off. As for the carb swap, mine was pretty straight forward, no mods needed other than to adjust the throttle linkage to the carb. Hope that helps.

[Sdc77]

Hi Ben,
No, it stumble coming off idle and doesn't want to do something else before it's warm. I tried smooth and rapid opening. Like too much something (fuel or air). But when it's warm, it runs perfect. Quick answer, good idle (500rpm) smooth and no vibration. I'll try do take a video next time I fire it.

I use unleaded 95 E10 fuel, as it's almost the only choice I have. Maybe it doesn't like it ?

[Jetlink]

Hi Ben,
No, it stumble coming off idle and doesn't want to do something else before it's warm. I tried smooth and rapid opening. Like too much something (fuel or air). But when it's warm, it runs perfect. Quick answer, good idle (500rpm) smooth and no vibration. I'll try do take a video next time I fire it.

I use unleaded 95 E10 fuel, as it's almost the only choice I have. Maybe it doesn't like it ?95 ocatane is higher than I can even get here in the states so I doubt that is the culprit. Do me a favor, next time you have it out, open the dog house, take the air cleaner off and take a peak into the carb. Check to see if there is any fuel that is pooling in there. If so, time for a carb rebuild I would imagine. I would also check the plugs to make sure they are all clean. Video will help tremendously. Check out Cadunkle, he has a video of his Saltaire out on the water with a slight engine issue that he is talking about in the video.

[Sdc77]

Do me a favor, next time you have it out, open the dog house, take the air cleaner off and take a peak into the carb

I will.

Really appreciate everybody's help here.
"Le rêve Américain" ;)

[haugy]

Welcome to the forum man, and that's a great looking Saltare. Tres bien!!

Everyone is pointing the right direction on your engine not being able to rev up unless really warmed up. You may be dumping too much fuel, running rich. When it runs, does it smell like pure raw gas from the exhaust? If so, that and your choke may need to be adjusted would cause this problem to happen.

If your engine is running rich, it's pumping too much fuel into the carb. It won't affect it much when it's warmed up because the choke is full open. But if your choke needs to be adjusted to open earlier, or isn't opening electronically at all, that will definitely cause your problem.

When you look for fuel in the bowls, check your choke. It should be electronic. Turn the key, and watch the choke open. It should go from closed to open in 2-3 minutes. 5 at the most. If it takes too long to open, and you're running rich, those two combined can kill a motor till it warms up. Nothing really wrong, just stuff needs to be adjusted.

Keep us posted!

[Sdc77]

Hello Haugy,
Merci pour ton accueil ;)
I just winterize it, so I will check that in few month. But, I observe last time I run it that the electrical choke operates. We can hear a "clic" and I see an arm mooving. I don't know if it open 2-3 or 5 min after starting, and it smell burned fuel (not more than the MPI 8.2L) when cold and nothing when warmed.
Don't worry, I will use this boat almost every day next year, so I will check what's wrong, with everybody's ideas and fix it.

Now my next step is mounting the tower (I should receive it next week), ordering and installing speakers, building a tower speaker box, building a new wooden swim plateform longer than the factory one, customize the trailer, and working on a nice hull wrap.

I will post every of my updates on that beast.

A bientôt ;)

[Sdc77]

Hi everybody, and Merry Xmas :D
It's time for some upgrades on the beast :

8418841984208421

[Sdc77]

842284238424

Monster MT2 tower in place ;)
I like this tower, the boat looks younger with it.

I will also put 2 racks, 1 mirror and (next step) a homemade tower speaker, with 4x 6"x9" inside. 4 new 6.5" inside the boat, a new SD/USB/Ipod Pioneer unit, a subwoofer in enclosure, 2 amps (1 oldschool Orion Xtreme 400.4 and 1 oldschool MTX TH6152).

I'm also working on the wrap ...
This boat will look awesome and rock on water ;)

Cheers

Stephane

[86 century]

Right on
Looks good
that trailer is scary

[Sdc77]

Thanks !
Don't be scared by that trailer, it's solid enough. And I will customise it when the boat will be finished.
Stay tuned :)

[86 century]

Does yours not have the traking fins on the bottom.

[Sdc77]

It does have. They are between the 2 main tubes of the trailer frame :

8504

[Blackntan90]

Stephane, great boat- I can't belive there are Supra's in France! I was in Brest this past summer for work- I work for a French company! The next time I visit your wonderful country I will try to hook up with you!

[Sdc77]

Hello Blackntan90,
There are few Supra's in France. I have seen 2 Comp ts6m for sale, and 2 Bravura on water. But it's rare boat here, as even Mastercraft french dealer doesn't know about those boats.
I'm proud of my Saltare and think it's the only one Saltare in France.

It will be a pleasure if you come in France and contact me. I live close to Disneyland Paris.

Cheers

[86 century]

It's interesting that there are so many in france. Are there no french inboard boat builders as I would imagine the cost to get a boat across the pond would be insanely high.
Forgive my backwoods ignorance.

[Sdc77]

It's not SO expensive. My saltare was 13000€. A comp is 7000€. An old school Mastercraft pro star 190 (1990') is arround 10000€. A correct craft ski nautique 2001 (1990') with tower is arround 8000€. All boats here are low hours, as fuel here is expensive. Many v8 boats are less than 500h. Mine is 250h, and in very good condition (stringers and floors looks new), no any scracth on the vinyl and hull etc.

[86 century]

that doesnt sound much differnt than in the states.
Good to know we still export somthing.

[Sdc77]

Bonne année à tous :)

Here are some upgrades. I just started the tower speaker.

It's made of PVC foam (Komacel) 19mm. Here is my design (greatly inspired by this one : http://bierbower.net/diytower/pdfs/FiberglassSpeakerBox.pdf )

8545854685478548

Next step is thermoforming the face, stretching fleece, fiberglassing etc.

Then I plan to finish it with black vinyl, and polished aluminium face.

Stay tuned :)

[Sdc77]

Hi everyone,

Just rebuilt the floor hatch behind the dog house in PVC + aluminium reinforcement :

8570

And Santa this year is named DIYWAKE.COM :

8571

It's time now to mount it :D

[86 century]

Cool shinny stuff

Have been thinking about a tower mostly for the racks. I dont care much for how towers look but all the room would be nice.
How are the speeker boxes coming

[Sdc77]

Yep, room and elevation are the best of towers. If I still have money after all that work, I probably will put 2 more racks, as we are many friends with many boards :)

The speaker boxe skeleton is glued and screwed. I was waiting for racks, mirror and espacialy clamps to adjust the box mountings placement. Will also bondoing and "rounding" skeleton angles. Waiting for sleece to stretch it. I ordered it yesterday.

But there is a problem : Speakers are missing !! I placed an order at onlinecarstereo.com. My mistake was to click on "international shipping". They are slow. They still not have received my order at their warehouse. Order was placed on 20 of december.

I already have fiberglass.

So, wait and see ;)

[Sdc77]

"CNC machine" <-- What is it ?

[TitanTn]

It's a metal cutting machine that allows for very fine control. You can cut complex shapes or words into metal.


"CNC machine" <-- What is it ?

[Sdc77]

Ok I see now. The CNC machine is not mine. One friend did it for me for the speakers box PVC parts. All the shinny parts are from www.diywake.com

[Sdc77]

Some updates on the tower speaker box :

858385848585

Now it's ready to be sleeced and fiberglassed :p

I'm waiting for sleece, still not receive.

[86 century]

Looking good

I take it you are going to cover them with basicaly sweat shirt fabric then glass.

[TitanTn]

Looking good! Although that floor makes it a little hard to focus on the frame... :)

[Sdc77]

sweat shirt fabric then glass yes, it's exaclty the method. The only difference between other TSB will be finishing : I will cover it with vinyl and the face with polished aluminium.


Although that floor makes it a little hard to focus on the frame sorry about it, it's my working place, I had choice between a white table or this floor ... ;)

[Sdc77]

Today, 6°C outside, and sunshine ! Positioning of the TSB on the tower :

860386048605

86078606

[Sdc77]

Hey guys,
Yesterday was Christmas ! I receive speakers, sleece and vinyl.

Today, stretching sleece on the skeleton :

862086218622

Tomorrow : fiberglass :cool:

[86 century]

Looking good man
Keep us posted

[TitanTn]

Looking great. Have you done this before?

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys.
I did it before on my Camaro 89', for kick panel boxes :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/camaro/06.jpg

Here was the beast :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/camaro/01.jpg

[86 century]

Those where cool cars well before I got old anyway.

Had a 90 iroc back in highschool god the girls loved that thing.

[Sdc77]

It was cool in USA, and super cool in France, because rare, beautiful, and with an amazing sound (I put flowmaster muffler dual out on it). I kept it 4 years and drove it 120 000km !
Now I'm looking for exchanging my Chrysler Lebaron Convertible for a 80's Blazer K5, to tow my boat ;)

[Sdc77]

The resin is dry. Today I apply a last pass inside and outside. Next step is covering with black vinyl :)

86248625

[86 century]

Cool man

I tow with a 4x4 suburban most of the time.
Its nice to not haft to worry about slick ramps.

[Sdc77]

Yes it is ! But as my boat stand in water all the season, the Blazer will also be a funy car for my pleasure ;)
We, French people, really enjoy US cars. It's fun, nice and engine sounds are .... hmmm

[Sdc77]

Ready for vinyl. Next step tomorrow after work ;)

8646

[Sdc77]

Nice truck. The link you give me is toooooooo much expensive ! Here is what we can find in France : http://www.leboncoin.fr/voitures/273455660.htm?ca=12_s

[86 century]

Thats cool

Could you translate the ad please

My french isnt so good these day's


12,500 for an 86 blazer is a bit much
you could by a much newer yukon for that money.

[Sdc77]

Chevrolet Blazer V8 5.7L
boite TH 700
5 places
possibilité GPL
crochet d'atelage
planché arrière à revoir
échange possible contre Harley 1200 XR, chevrolet Caprice ou autres possibilités à étudier
Téléphoner le soir après 19h

Means :

Th700 Transmission
5 places (seat) on the green card
LPG capable vehicule
Trailer hitch
Rear floor rusted
Exchange for Harley ... Caprice, other possibilities
Call in the evening past 7 pm

;)

My first attempt with the vinyl is a fail. I need to sew the vinyl in 2 parts or more. I'm looking for a sewer, as I don't master it.
Keep watching.

[86 century]

I would assume lp is cheaper over there. I just paid 3.50 a gallon.

Sewing is more of an art.
Good luck

[Sdc77]

LPG is cheaper in France yes. It's half the price of gazoline

[86 century]

Cool
How is the speaker box coming

[Sdc77]

Hello,
I give the TSB to a sewer. I will get an answer next monday.
Oh, and I receive every items for the audio installation ! Next week will be productive on the beast

[cadunkle]

Just noticed this thread. Congrats on the Saltare! Glad to see one of the mother ship of the Supra line overseas. I have an '89 Saltare too. Here's mine...

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Maine%202011/P1020648.jpg

Prices are high over there, but that's to be expected. I got mine, at current exchange rates, for under 6000 Euro. Limited availability in France though, so anything from here will be more expensive.

The other guys were spot on with 6-7 GPH. My Saltare burns about 6 GPH. I ride at 21 MPH and turn 2200-2300 RPM. I have not tuned my carb that well yet, so I expect some small improvement in efficiency once I jet it leaner. Guy who had it before me had it jetted all bassackwards with 84 jets on primary side and 77 (?) on secondary with a power valve on primary and plug on secondary. It was way rich! Right now it's at 74 primary jets and I want to say 80 or 82 secondary with a plug for power valve on secondary side. I run a 800 CFM Holley double pumper. I believe it's still rich so I will jet down further this season and save on fuel. Fortunately gas here for 89 octane (ROM+MON/2) is about $3.40/gallon or .90 Euro / liter It wasn't long ago that gas here was around $2/gallon.

So with the carb, keep the Holley. They're great reliable carbs and are simple to rebuild and tune. Depending on what model carb and CFF as well as any work done to your engine, you may be able to jet leaner. Generally for a stock big block I'd be looking at around 72 primary jetting and 80 on secondary if no power valve or 76 with a power valve. Keep changing jets for smaller/leaner jets until you get a lean stumble at steady cruise then go up 2 jet sizes and you'll be at most efficient carb jetting. There is a lot more to it, but if you get to that point of adjusting the carb I'd be happy to help.

[Sdc77]

Nice boat. No tower ?
I keep your jet ideas in mind, and will ckeck it as soon as I finish the audio system installation.

Here is the TSB with Vinyl. Finally, my vinyl was not a good quality one, to hard to stretch. The sewer uses his vinyl, and no need to sew it. Here is the result :

86978698

Notice that I put piece of noise killer (from house sealing material) inside the thing.

This evening I cut and start to polish the aluminium front plate.

[TitanTn]

Looks awesome. Can't wait to see the finished product.

[Sdc77]

Me to !

Here is what it should look like when finished. I just need to polish and seal everything together :

869987008701

[86 century]

Looks great

Keep it up

[Sdc77]

Hey guys, it's been a while I didn't post something. I'm not home so no good progress on my stuff. Trying to get good result on polishing alimunium is more difficult than what I expected. It looks brilliant but not mirror. Front speakers are in the boat.
Keep watching, some new picture soon.

[TitanTn]

Thanks for the update. I've been waiting for the finished product, so keep us informed!

[Sdc77]

Hey guys, finally, the thing is done ! Next step is mounting it on the tower, installing head unit, speakers, bass box, and wirring.
To get a good sealing and nice finition, I apply a black silicone between the aluminium face and the TSB vinyl. Here are pics :

87698770877187728773

[cadunkle]

Nice boat. No tower ?

Not yet anyway. The pole gives the same result for a fraction of the price. Would be nice to have some board racks though. Eventually when I get some automotive restoration projects done I should have some play money to get a New Dimension tower, which is the only one I've seen so far looks right to my eye on the old square windshield boats.

Good work on the speaker box, looking forward to following the rest of your progress with the boat.

[Sdc77]

Thanks ! Here is the result on the tower. Just need the "Supra" text on the face and it's over.

8774877587778778

[Sdc77]

8779878087818782

[86 century]

Look great
nice work
I just need to get over this not wanting to put holes in my boat to install a tower.

[Sdc77]

Thanks Century.
I was like you with my first boat. Then you drill, and you feel better, no more scare. Anyway it's fiberglass, if you fail your drilling you can recap holes.
The tower is a real good investment : It gives a good looking to your boat, good altitude to your jumps, and save tons of place if you put racks for boards.

[Sdc77]

Today I did some more polishing. These are my driver seat's feet :

879487958796

[Sdc77]

Some updates of the weekend. I glue the letters made in Komacel 3mm, with PVC glue. It seems to be a good combo. Here are pics :

88908891

I also remove the fuel tank to access the direction connector. First problem, the tank is leaking !!! I need to fix it, don't know how yet.

I'm now sure that my direction problem is the cable. But, second problem, there is no any indication on it. No label, no model, no number.

1- Can I restore it ? Remove the cable from the sheath, clean grease etc ?
2- Does anyone know what model it is, what is reference, where to buy it ?

Here are some pics :

889288938894

[86 century]

Speaker cans look great.

Most likely the inside of the sheath has some rust or somthing like that makeing it stiff.
You can pull it apart or find a way to put some penatrating oil in the sheath and spend a lot of time working it back and forth.

If you decide to replace it give these people a try http://www.skidim.com/departments.asp?dept=1120 they helped me on some rudder packing.

I had no idea what size packing to order so I just orded both the called me the next day to make sure I got what I needed.

[Sdc77]

Thank you, I will check it.
My local dealer is selling Teleflex/Ultraflex M66 cables. Is it compatible ?

[haugy]

The boat is looking good Sdc77.

How did the interior come out?

And what did you use to polish those seat bases? I need to do mine before I sell them.

[Sdc77]

Hi haugy,
Thanks for compliments.
The big yellow stain on the dog house has not disapeared. It seems to be a burned thing. So the interior looks good except the dog house.
I ordered a new steering cable, waiting for it to put back the fuel tank, driver seat, and to mount the subwoofer enclosure + amps.

To polish the driver seat bases, I bought a set of polishing discs. This one to be exact : http://www.alpdiffusion.com/produit.php?idcategorie=21&idproduit=476 and a driller. This is for miror effect. But as it was dirty, I first use those abrasive things to clean the aluminium : http://www.alpdiffusion.com/produit.php?idcategorie=23&idproduit=546

Hope it helps ;)

[Sdc77]

Hi everyone, last pictures indoor. Next one will be on water (next week :) )
Hifi is done, tower idem. Just need a new cover and i'ts ready for this season.

9218921992209221

[Sdc77]

92229223922492259226

[TitanTn]

Man that interior is looking great. The whole boat is looking great.

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys, I appreciate.

Yes wakeboarding start to be an important water sport in France. Many brand new boats sold are wake boats.
At the club where I'm ridding, there are 30 boats. 20 of them are ski/wake boats. Most of ski boats have wake towers.

Curiously, Supra are absolutly unknow boats here. Many old CC, Malibu, MC, very few TS6M, that's it.

I have one question before starting the engine. I empty water from the engine and exhaust by removing screws down the block and exhaust. But I didn't fill it with antifreeze, as the boat is sleeping in a garage.

Now I need to start it. But, I think I need first to fill the block with water, as the thermostat is still in place (so the garden water will not entry the engine ?). Is there a block filling screw somewhere or do I need to remove the thermostat ???

[TitanTn]

Is this a closed cooling system, or a fresh water system? Assuming that it's fresh cooling as most are, you won't do anything specific to "fill the block." You need to get water into the engine via the water inlet hose. You can do that with a valve right above where the water enters the boat from the lake thru-hull, or as most common, you need to use a "fake-a-lake" attachment to a water hose as seen in the image at this link: http://www.bargainboatparts.com/p-103947-fake-a-lake.aspx

[Sdc77]

It's a fresh water system. I was thinking that the engine is in closed loop when cold, means only the water inside the block is circulating inside, the fresh water only cools the exhausts. When hot, the thermostat opens, and let fresh water entering the block for cooling, and hot water goes out.

That's why I want to fil the block first, as it's actually empty of anything.

I have a garden hose connector system between filter and engine.

[TitanTn]

You'll be fine. No need to fill the block.

[Sdc77]

Thank you Titan, I try it next week and will probably do a video of the engine running.
Cheers

[sybrmike]

The boat looks great - all your efforts have really paid off. That interior looks factory fresh. You are sure to inspire the addition of more Supra's to your area once they see that beauty on the water.

Like Titan said, you'll be fine without filling the block. With no water in the block, the thermostat should heat up and open in only a few minutes to fill the engine once it's running. Just watch your temperature guage - I think the stock thermostat is a 145 deg F, so the temperature will probably rise to 150-160 deg F & then drop down once the thermostat opens.

[ruby23m]

Stephane,
Hey its matt, you had found me on YouTube last year. Boat looks awesome and i will take some credit for persuading you to buy it! Just found you on here so thought to say hi. How close to wakeboarding season are you?

[Sdc77]

Hi Matt, glad to see you here as well. The boat is actually at a place for a new cover. I take it back next monday. Then, I need to change engine and transmission oil, filters, polish hull, and put it in water. Maybe half of next week. Then it's begining of wakeboarding this beast.
I will take photos and videos of our tricks.

Stay tuned ;)

[Sdc77]

You were right guys, today I start the engine. No problem of temperature, when the thermostat opens, water enters engine. It runs just perfect at idle, but impossible to rise RPM !!! I tried with Choke and disconnected choke, nothing to do.
But I'm afraid to open the carburetor. The risk is to never start again ... I try to find litterature on it.
Also, idle is arround 600rpm, the alternator does not charge the battery. But I remember on the friend's X35, no charge at idle, it needed to be arround 1000rpm to start charging. So, I will wait that the engine runs perfectly before deciding to change the alternator.

[TitanTn]

Idle should be around 850-900. Go ahead and get a carb rebuild kit. It's easier than it looks and you'll eliminate a lot of possibilities by rebuilding it now.

[Sdc77]

Yes I start to look if I can get a rebuild kit directly in France (because of delay and cost of shipping). But I'm more afraid about retune it after changing parts. As I will clean and remove every srew, I think a retune will be necessary. That procedure if for me the big problem.
I keep you in touch. As it's raining and it will all the week, I can't start it again till next week. I would like to make a movie and share it before doing mistakes.

[86 century]

Holly carbs are probably the easyest ones on the planet to rebuild.

If it idleing ok but will not go past that you excelerator pump is probly bad.
Its under the front fuel bowl straight down from where the fuel line goes in.

[Sdc77]

Hey guys,
On the carb (on the choke plate's body) I can read this reference : "LIST-80262".

9405940694079409

I find this : http://www.jegs.com/i/Holley/510/703-28/10002/-1

Is it what I need ?

[86 century]

Looks like the right one to me.

[Sdc77]

Ok thanks. I find it at a local dealer, I get it tomorrow or friday :)

[Sdc77]

I rebuilt the carb. It's not so complicated and there are not that much tuning to do on it. But it was still running bad. So I did something elementary (I was so stupid to don't start frome here), I remove spark plugs to check. They were full of oil and dirty. I clean each. Now it runs near perfect, maybe a little accelerator pump tune, but I will do it on water.

It's alive !


http://www.vimeo.com/40376114

[86 century]

Told you hollys are pretty basic.

Glad you got it going

[Sdc77]

Here we are finaly :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1320.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1324.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1326.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1328.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1329.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1330.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1331.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1332.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1334.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1336.JPG

And the first ride :


https://vimeo.com/40781950

[DAFF]

Just spent the last 20 min or so reading through the tread. Great job on the tower, speakers and the look of the finial product.

Keep in mind the biggest killer of these boats is extended time sitting in the water. Can't remember any pics of the rear of the boat. Does it still have the Trapps or flappers on the back. I hope they have been sealed well and do not leak!! For this is the main point of water entery into the foam filled cavities.

Has anyone done a LP conversion for marine applications in France??? As for the trailer the European look seems under enginered to North Americian standards but will work fine.

[TitanTn]

Nice. It's good to see it on the water. Strange to see everyone wearing coats though!

[ruby23m]

Great to see your boat come alive, and thats one of the nicest looking Saltares I've seen on this forum. Congrats!!

[Sdc77]

Thanks everyone !

DAFF, what is a LP conversion ?

The boat had the factory flap, but I removed it and replce by a litle plate, not longer then the boat, with tons of silicon. I did it because it generated a flush and killed a little bit the wake. There is an automatic bilge pump in the boat, and battries are brand new. The boat will unfortunatly stay in water from now till October. I will seriously check if water comes inside the hull.

[Salty87]

fantastic looking!

are there many wakeboard style boats where you are? i bet yours turns alot of heads.

[sybrmike]

Congratulations on getting that beautiful Saltare back on the water. You found a fantastic boat to start off with & somehow managed to make it even better. Looks great!

[DAFF]

LP= Liquid Propane.....

I would drill a small insection holes in the bulkheads to inspect the condition of the foam. Under the front playpen would be ideal. Dry foam = very happy stringers.

[Sdc77]

Thanks for the compliments guys, I really appreciate :)


fantastic looking!

are there many wakeboard style boats where you are? i bet yours turns alot of heads.

There are one X-Star 2008 ; one X-14 2010 ; all the other boats are old Mastercrafts/Correct crafts/Malibus of 80's. For now, I'm the only one on water. It's still 13°C outside, 9°C in water. Boats will go in water in 1 month I think. All my friends who have seen mine, and who knows the Friend's X35 are very impressive by the Saltare, as it's an oldschool nice looking boat.

@ DAFF, no drill, I don't think I will keep it 10 years. But the stringers visible close to the engine and supports of the engine looks perfect. As for the entire interior or the hull state, the old owner of this boat was amazingly careful with it. It looks brand new !

I've seen LPG conversion only on sky/wake School boats. They can ask for a tank and pump for their club. But no conversion for average peolple as there is no any LPG station arround places to do boat.

[Sdc77]

Hey Guys, wich spark plugs model do you use in your 454 ? Mine are tired, I need to change it soon.
I would like the best compromise between price/durability/fuel economy/performance. I have and electronic ignition on it.
Thanks

[86 century]

Dont have 454 in my boat yet.

I use autolite plugs in every thing have always had real good luck.
Would stay away from champion and bosch I have found there quality to a bit spoty.

[Sdc77]

Hi century,
Thanks for quick answer. Autolite seems hard to find in France. What do you think about NGK ?
I find 2 references for the v-power kind : 2771 and 7052
I can have to my local dealer 2771. Any suggestion ?

[86 century]

Ngk are good plugs
I will not put anything else in a two stroke
Have not ever used them in bigger eng

[Sdc77]

Hi guys,
My 454 is black smoking when hot at idle, with big smell of fuel. When I rebuilt the carb, I change idle mixture screws. When removed the old ones, I notice 1 1/4 turn from maximum, so I tune the same new Srews. On this video :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPGLUsW5ZeE&feature=BFa&list=HL1335301095

They say to turn 1 1/2 turn. That's where I would like to know if your engine smokes or do I need to retune my carb. I don't have any vaccum gauge, so I can only tune it by hear and feeling. Any advise is welcome. Thanks

[86 century]

The 1 1/2 turns is a starting point. Just so we know where were at check the float settings and power valve if it has poped back through the carb it could have taken it out.

Get the eng running turn the screws in one at a time till in nearly kills the eng.
Then back them out till the idle smoothes out. It may take going back and forth a few times to get it right.

From one eng to another the final setting can be vastly differnt.

[Sdc77]

Thanks century, I will tune it as you describe next time I run it. And keep you in touch ;)

[Sdc77]

First cession of my friend. 32km/h at GPS, no ballast, just me in the boat :


https://vimeo.com/41158029

[Sdc77]

Definatly in love with Supra Boats. The Saltare is the Best low cost choice we could do ! Today was shinny and 24°C, water 12°C, 4 people in the boat, 1 rider, good wake, good vibe, alot of Fun !

I have an oil problem. When I shut off the engine, some oil is going out from exhausts. I read that it's maybe tired piston rings, or valve seats. The engine is 250 hours. It will be too much work for me, so I simply will check oil level and often clean spark plugs.

I'm also close to place an order for a 4160 E85 conversion kit. Here in France E85 is half the price of gasoline. So it will be an economical upgarde.

[Jetlink]

I'd be careful on the E85 conversion. Ethanol loves to attract water and quite frankly, having the boat on the water with E85 in it is just asking for more trouble than saving a buck or two on a gallon of gas. Plus the E85 doesn't usually produce the same amount of power that a gallon of normal gas does.

[Sdc77]

Hey Ben,
I use my boat daily. E85 attracts water when sitting a long time in a non moving tank.

I already did an E85 conversion on the old Peugeot 205 of my gril Friend. I simply drill the jet 50% bigger, tune idle jet, and give 5 more degrees on timing. The engine was alot more torquy. It was an 1.3L and works like a 1.6L after conversion, with only 20% more fuel consumption on a half price fuel.

We do 150H of wake per years. That means 3800L of gasoline. Means 6080€/year !!! It's definatly not a buck or two to get 30% economy. Remember I'm not living in US, here gasoline price is a real problem to our common passion ;)

[86 century]

Would realy like to know how the convertion comes out.
I have considered doing the convertion to mine only thing keeping me from it is not being able to get e85 on the lake.

[Sdc77]

Hey guys,
Today I tried to tune the engine, to get less black smoke at idle.
So I warmed the engine (I did 2 wake cessions before acting), and start to trun mixture srews. I tried with 1/4 turn each side, and each time. When I srewed, rpm rised, so I unscrewed idle screw. It started to smoke less, but I finally turned srews to maximum ! And the engine is still running. Running good actually !
Is it normal ? My carb is a holley 4160 with 1 metering block with 2 mixture srews on 1 side and a jet plate on the other side. Is there an idle system on the jet plate side ?

[86 century]

I dont think any of the holly vacuum secondary carbs have four corner idle.

I could be wrong unless some one has modified the carb.

[Sdc77]

Ok. Any idea why the engine is still running with tightened screws ?

Here is the wake, no ballast, no extra weight, 3 people in the boat, speed 20MPH :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/vague1.JPG

[86 century]

Make sure the screw on the linkage is not in so far its not running on the main jets.

It should kill it with the screws all the way in if backing the idle screw on the linkage out doesnt kill it then you most likely have a vacuum leak.

All so make sure the secondaries on the carb are closed.

[Sdc77]

Hey century,
I checked everything. Secondary is closed, dry discharge nozzle on primary and secondary. I read on the PCM manual that the secondary has no idle mixture screw, but does have an idle section, with no possible tunning. I think my engine is running only on the secondary idle system at idle.
Today I did a wake cession with friends. No more black smoke. The engine runs pretty fine, good idle and torque, fast accelerations. Maybe I run a little bit lean at idle, but it runs and starts without any choke (I lock the choke plate in open position). So, wait and see !

Today I find the rear sun bath hatch failure. The wood is definitely dead. Water and mold killed it. I started to remove vinyl. I think I will rebuild it in PVC in place of wood. I also think about reversing the opening of this hatch. To open it from the inside of the boat instead of the back of the swim platform. Will take pics of the process.

[Salty87]

Today I find the rear sun bath hatch failure. The wood is definitely dead. Water and mold killed it. I started to remove vinyl. I think I will rebuild it in PVC in place of wood. I also think about reversing the opening of this hatch. To open it from the inside of the boat instead of the back of the swim platform. Will take pics of the process.

that stinks. there's another thread around here somewhere talking about it. plastic would be nice but it will cost you. most cheaper plastics will sag over such a wide span. fiberglassed wood isn't perfect but it usually fits the budget. you seem very resourceful though...one method i'd like to try.... resin soaked, vacuum bagged foam board. supplies would be cheap but you need somewhat special tools...vacuum, etc. might take more than 1 try too, lol.

reversed hatch would be nice. maybe shocks to hold it open when you want? don't want the wind opening it of course. but, would be nice to have 2 hands for a change when reaching in there.

[Sdc77]

Thanks Salty for advises, I didn't think about the opening of the hatch by the wind ! Good point.
Finally I will rebuilt it as factory with standard opening, in PVC + Aluminium, exactly as the way I rebuilt the floor hatch beind the dog house.

Here are pics of the wood state :

97449745

[Sdc77]

Yesterday, second ride of one of our girl friend. You can see the missing rear hatch ...


https://vimeo.com/41980374

[Sdc77]

For those who like me, loves the big block sound :


https://vimeo.com/42826948

[Sdc77]

So, I finally rebuilt it in black PVC (Komacel), as factory, no change in opening side. I will see it for winter ...

996299639964

[TitanTn]

Looks great. So yours opens that direct from the factory? Mine is the opposite.

[Sdc77]

Thanks. Yes it opens from the swim plateform. This winter I plan to rebuild it like modern boats, with 2 hatches openning from the middle to the sides of the boat.
I just receive a wired remote for my Pioneer CD, will post pictures of the installation.
I also plan to put LEDs RGB under cup holders.
Keep looking ;)

[TitanTn]

Thanks. Yes it opens from the swim plateform.

Oh, my bad. I has assumed the pic was taken with the locker IN the boat. I see now that it's out. Ours open the same direction. Your modification sounds interesting and I look forward to seeing how you accomplish it.

[sydneyACE]

Sdc77;

Love your boat! Love this thread!

You did an awsome job on that speaker box, it looks great.

I also liked watching your videos, please post more. Obviously, there is a big culture difference between France and the US.
I like your videos so much because boating/wakeboarding is so familiar to me, but you guys do-it a little differently.
I'm sitting here at work, watching your video and smiling/chuckling to myself like an idiot. Your music is different than ours. It's like disco. Nobody in the US listens to disco anymore so it adds this different effect to your video. I just love seeing someone in a different country who does the same thing as us, but just a little differently. All the videos of people in the US wakeboarding always have loud hip-hop, or hard-rock, or sometimes reggae.

I'm assuming that's your Girl Friend sitting beside you in the second-to-last video. Cangratulations! She's very pretty.

Anyway, great job on the boat. It's looking good. I hope you guys are having fun and getting on the water! Can you tell me what the temperature is in that video? It looks like it's a little chilly.

[Sdc77]

Hy Travis, I like your comment, It's funny to me too ;)
We really have tons of music on the boat, it goes from Club style (David Guetta etc.), Funk (70' ; 80' ; Keziah Jones), Pop (Lenny Kravitz, Mickael Jackson), some Red Hot songs, Electronic (Daft Punk -> you must know it, especially Discovery album ...).
We are not fan of Rap, Rnd and Hard Rock. But it's not every French people who like those styles. For example, I post exactly same thread on a french wake forum, and ask people what are their wake playlist. Every body's different. You can check it here : http://www.forum-wakeboardmag.com/glisse/votre-playlist-pour-wake-t7303.html

Here is my boat's post :
http://www.forum-wakeboardmag.com/bateaux/mon-supra-saltare-t7170.html

She is not My GF riding, but my best friend's

Temperature was 23°C outside, 18°C in water. For now summer time doesn't want to come : It's rainning hard here and it's cold !

I love your engine's work, it's awesome, it looks brand new !

thanks for comment on the TSB work. I actually started another one for a guy from the French forum, but he unfortunatly doesn't want it anymore. It cost me nothing as I only have the skeletton done. Maybe somebody will want the same TSB one day ;)

[sydneyACE]

Personally, I'm not a huge fan or Rap or R&B (there are a few songs/artists that I like) and I don't really like reggae at all.
So, that pretty-much makes me an outcast here in the US (specifically the boating world because of not-liking reggae).

I like hard-rock, accoustic jams (Jack Johnson, Dispatch, Slackstring, etc.), and sometimes even Country *gasp!*

That's your best-freind's GF huh? That reminds me of a song (or two). Have you ever heard "My best freind's girlfriend" by "The Doors"? How about "Jessie's Girl" by "Rick Springfield"? If you haven't heard them, you should definately give them a listen.

23*C, that's about 73*F not too bad... Summer is finally coming here in Montana. Today it's supposed to get-up to 86*F (30*C), so I'm planning on going to the lake after work. The water at my lake takes a long time to warm-up though. Last time I went boarding, it was probably about 58*F (14.5*C).

Thanks for the kind words about my boat. The poor thing is basically just a hull with an engine at this point. But as my sig says, It floats and pulls me on the wakeboard, so I'm happy. Plus I'm only into-it for about $2,500 (1,975 euros) at this point, so that's nice.

I love your Speaker Box! I probably wouldn't cover in Vinyl though. I wonder how much it would cost to ship to Montana?

[Sdc77]

Hey guys, remote is in place :) very usefull part

1040210403

[86 century]

That's cool
If I wasn't so lazy I would do something like that. Having to get in the glovebox to turn the radio down is a pain in the butt.

[Sdc77]

You must do it, it's a cheap part and it changes the life when driving the boat with a friend behind.
I'm also thinking about a Perfect Pass or Hydrophase. But it's very expensive so it will be for next year or never ...

[Salty87]

looks great and functional.

and...look at that warning sticker! it looks brand new. mine is scratched so bad it can't be read. 10 people/2165 lbs...i never knew.

sdc you really take incredible care of your boat!

[86 century]

I highly recommend perfectpass.

My wife who had never pulled anything was just as good as a buddy who has driven for ski shows for the last 15years.

[sybrmike]

And the upgrades continue... Great job & still one of the cleanest Saltares around.

My sticker was so illegible, I took it off. Wonder if the PoPo will ever hassle me?

[cadunkle]

I don't believe it's required on boats over a certain length, maybe 21' or so.

[Sdc77]

Thank you guys for all your compliments, really I appreciate !

Here is our cession yesterday :


https://vimeo.com/44920586

Back to the docking place :


https://vimeo.com/44920585

And YES, it IS what it looks to be :

10410

And the "apéro" time (means "apéritif") :

10411

(I'm the one on the dog house cutting saucisson)

[TitanTn]

And the upgrades continue... Great job & still one of the cleanest Saltares around.

My sticker was so illegible, I took it off. Wonder if the PoPo will ever hassle me?

It's not required on boats over 20 feet. Manufacturers put them there to gain a certain certification. It doesn't really mean anything and no one can require you to have it posted. I removed my scratched decal (now I know how white the boat was originally!).

[Sdc77]

Hey guys, photos of my summer hollidays in south west of France (close to Bordeaux : Biscarrosse Lac)

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a901.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a902.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a903.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a904.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a905.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a906.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a907.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a908.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a909.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a910.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a911.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a912.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a913.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a914.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a915.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a916.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a917.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a918.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a919.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a920.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a921.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/%c3%a9t%c3%a922.JPG

[TitanTn]

So when are you going to post some pics of your boat?

:cool:

[haugy]

10411


Forget the boat, when are you going to post more pics of the belle in the black shirt on the right!?? Tres beau!

[Sdc77]

LOL Titan ;)

Forget about the girl Haugy !

So, what to tell about this boat : It's just a monster. Tons of place, fun, sound etc.
One interresting thing : A girl friend of us joined for 1 day. She knew the Mastercraft X35, and she said that the Saltare is better ! Curious isn't it ? So we ask why ? She said the dog house looks like a table to take the apéritif !! Yes, we are alcoolic people :p

So, next step :
- Ordering a Grant Steering wheel, model 457-1
- Installing RGB Leds inside the boat + color controler, underwater blue Leds.

This is for next coming weeks


I will also seriously study a V8 diesel turbo, twin turbo or supercharged swap. From the 6.1L or 6.5L depending of what I'll find, with low compression pistons.

The 454 definatly drinks too much gas for a french usage. Gasoline there was 1.62€/L. We put 60L/day and stay 15 days ... I let you calculate.
Even a 350 will not be enough to make big economy.

Just look at this video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAcwqXNSp5c

Does anyone did it before arround ?

[haugy]

Forget about the girl Haugy !

Mon dieu, tres impossible! Est-elle ta petite amie?

:D :D Oh yeah, nice work on the boat too.

[86 century]

In the video that company says humvee based eng witch is a Gm 6.5l good news is your bell housing will bolt right on.

The flywheel may work to

[Sdc77]

Ok,
Then it will be a 6.5 diesel atmo (170hp) to begin, will see if it's enough to do wakeboarding. if not, I plan to put a supercharger on it. probably a G60 or a Eaton M62, as we can find here in France easyly those 2 kinds of blowers.
I will start to find the diesel this winter to get it run for next year.

[86 century]

I would think a diesel would work out ok.

I think the factory governor is set at 3500 or 4000 you will only loose around 500rpm off of the topend.
Should be easy enough to get the speed back with a higher pitch prop.

The good thing will be nearly impossible to over rev where ever the governor is set is where it will stop.

[Sdc77]

Hey guys,
Finally coming back from south of France where many taxi/tourism boats are fitted with the 6.2 or 6.5 Diesel. 1Km behind the boat, it still smell diesel. So I will think about a 5.7L gas engine.
For now I will order a Grant steering wheel, 72 jets for the carb (my spark plugs are dry back, so I run too rich) instead of the 74 ones.
I will also buy some leds for the inside and underwater.

I have 1 cup holder broken. It's black. I would like to change every of it by stainless steel, but I don't find on the net SS cup holder of 2-7/8". Anybody has a plan ?

[haugy]

The cupholders are pretty universal, I don't know what you have available over there for shipping though.

Can I get your old steering wheel if you are replacing it with a Grant? I'd love to hang a Supra steering wheel from a Saltare that resided in France in my shop. That would just be a cool artifact. I'd pay for shipping. :)

[sybrmike]

You can find a few different diameters in the stainless steel cupholders on the web. My original black plastic cupholders were all busted up & I wanted the larger ones in my Saltare so I could fit cans with coozies. There wasn't enough room in the molded plastic to accommodate the larger ones (plus the wood was rotten in the speaker portions & I was doing all new vinyl anyway), so I made all new speaker/cup pods out of treated plywood. I "recycled" my original molded plastic pods to another Saltare owner that was missing his completely. Since your vinyl is in such nice condition, I'd just keep looking for the smaller s/s inserts.

[Jetlink]

Wonder if you were to utilize a FAE or something like that if that might cut down on the diesel fume issue.

[Sdc77]

@haugy : No problem, I will ship you the steering wheel as soon as I replace it. Can you find for me for exemple ø72 jets for my carb, a used Holley or Edelbrock smaller carb ? This can be a good deal, as we don't have used such things here in France ...

@sybrmike : I also find on the net larger cups in SS, but not 2-7/8" SS. Only plastic

@Jetlink : what is FAE ?

[haugy]

@haugy : No problem, I will ship you the steering wheel as soon as I replace it. Can you find for me for exemple ø72 jets for my carb, a used Holley or Edelbrock smaller carb ? This can be a good deal, as we don't have used such things here in France ...

@Jetlink : what is FAE ?

I can get you Jets, but your symbol has me a bit off. Is that supposed to be a .72 or .072?

FAE = Fresh Air Exhaust, it's a pair of pipes (homemade, so you can easily make them) that divert the exhaust down into the water after coming out the back of the boat. This pumps them down instead of straight out unrestricted like normal. The water helps cut down on fumes by disapating the exhaust through water, and while under way makes the exhaust bubbles have to float up before they are exposed. Therefore by the time the bubbles surface you are long gone, and there is no exhaust pumping directly into the air like now.

It's not a bad idea for that diesel set up. Search FAE in here, it's been covered with pics.

[haugy]

Here:

https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?4144-Do-you-really-need-Fresh-Air-Exhaust&highlight=Fresh+Exhaust

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3519/medium/Picture_0031.jpg

[sybrmike]

I think this smaller one will fit?

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?pdesc=Stainless-Steel-Drink-Holder-3&i=74429&aID=601I3&merchID=4006

[Sdc77]

Mike, this cup seems to be what I need :) Thanks for the link !

haugy, It's righten on the jet "743", assuming it's a 74 jet. So I want to lean it, that's why I want to go to 72. Don't know if it's diameter in inch, mm or something else.

Ok I see the Fresh exhaust system. To me, it's a waste to quiet those engines, V8 are so rare in France, so when we have one, we want to ear it ;)
Anyway, 6.2 or 6.5 diesel are very rare here. A 5.7 gas seems to be the way to go for us.

[Sdc77]

On the PCM repair PDF, I notice that my carb LIST-80262 should have #722 jets. I have #743, That's why I run too rich. Assuming it's Holley 122-722 reference I need ?

[haugy]

What kind of carb are you running Holley? 4160? The more you can give me, the more I can help.

[Sdc77]

HOLLEY 4160 with LIST number 80262
Forget about the jets, I just placed an order at Jeg's for the Steering wheel + hub, jets (a box kit), spark plugs, distributor cap, oil filter. I should get it next week.

[Sdc77]

Hey guys,
My engine start to run very bad, instable idle, missing firing cylinder (1 or 2 missing) even at high RPM. It sounds to me a ignition Problem.
I read on the cadunkle missfiring post that it can come from almost every part of the ignition system. I will start with spark plugs, distributor cap and wires, and if it still missfire, I will change the rotor, coil, and probably the alternator.

Is anybody has a vacuum timing on the 454 ? On mine, no any hose, seems to be mecanicaly or electronicaly controled.

I ask, because I will think about the chinese ignition (I don't care about where it has been made, marine or not) http://www.kmjent.com/cart/product.php?productid=2264&cat=20164763&page=1
But it's vacuum timing thing.
I ask also because I really want this 454 to burn less fuel. I read about Q-jet carb better fuel economy than other 4 barrel carbs, like my 4160. And, finally, I hate the secondary part of the 4160 non tunable.
So I will also think about an used Q-jet (with vacuum hose for the ignition ?), but witch model will fit my intake manifold without mods or adaptation plate ?

[cadunkle]

Do not run a vacuum advance on a marine engine. The purpose of vacuum advance in a car is to add timing under light load cruise conditions to increase MPG. In a boat this is not applicable as it is always under the same type of heavy load, and there essentially is no light load cruise condition. Adding vacuum advance may result in detonation which will shatter rings, crack pistons, etc. You could always just cap it off, but if it's not marine it's not a sealed distributor and will rust the inside (advance and trigger mechanism) a lot faster than a sealed marine unit made of better materials than automotive.

While you're going through the ignition, make sure the mechanical advance is advancing smoothly. There are weights and springs under the points plate you may have to clean and lubricate the pivot points. If you still have points in the distributor clean and re-gap them. Not sure on the spec for point gap but somewhere around .016" - .018" would be typical.

As for other carbs... Personally I do not like Quadrajets. They are quite complex to rebuild and tune. They also do not make as much power as a Holley. Unless you really know carbs in and out, don't get a Quadrajet as it's be tedious to tune for your application. I would recommend a Holley 4150, as they have a metering block on the secondary side (can tune with jets instead of metering plate). A 750 CFM vacuum secondary would work well for your use and allow tuning of secondary jetting. Your fuel savings from running slightly leaner on the secondary side, assuming it will even take leaner secondary jetting without stumbling or surging, would likely never pay for the carb... So I would wait until your carb is worn out to replace it. Looking on Summit I don't see any 4150 marine carbs with vacuum secondaries... So in that case I would say a 750 CFM double pumper would be fine (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HLY-0-80537). Personally all my vehicles have big blocks and 750-850 CFM Holley double pumpers. Double pumper does not mean high fuel consumption unless you drive it that way (always into the secondaries) and on a mild engine you can probably run a 30cc accelerator pump on both sides.

[Sdc77]

Thanks cadunkle for all that precisions !
I will stay with my electronic ignition. I fixed it, 3 spark plug wire connectors were dead (rust inside, and bad connection to the top of spark plugs). It seems to not be the factory ignition system, as it's writen "Mercuriser" on it.
Here are pics :

1113911140

Then you can see my spark plugs are wet black. So too rich ?

11141

I will start with 72 or 71 jets as soon as I receive it (72 says the manual).

Thanks for your lights on carbs.
What do you think about converting my 4160 into a 4150 ? with that part :

http://www.holley.com/34-6.asp

Also placed an order for leds : RGB leds with controler inside the boat, and replacement leds for gauges, white back light and front green/red light.
Will post photos of all that stuff.

[Sdc77]

Hey Guys,
I just started working on the RGB interior Leds. I bought a 50cm RGB SMD 5050 ribon Led ($15). I then cut it every 10cm, so I get a 3 led module. I then cut 4 pieces of black plastic (from a handle box), drill 3 holes ø7mm spaced of 1.5cm each, and glued Leds modules. I have a RGB 12v/12v controler with a remote ($15). I just need to cut 4G wire and weld connectors to it, and put my plastic pieces in place of the factory lights under cup holders. Here are pictures :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led01.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led02.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led03.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led04.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led05.JPG

[TitanTn]

Very interesting. I looking forward to seeing these in place and activated.

[sybrmike]

Ditto - curious how they will throw the light & look forward to seeing them in action. I really enjoy the RGB's I installed, but as expected I have a hard time finding enough excuses to be out at night to take advantage. What type of controller are you using? I used a cheap controller with remote (not for outdoor use), but it's tucked up under the helm so should stay relatively dry. If you haven't yet wired power to the controller, I'd suggest running the power through a dash switch & then to the controller. I was pleasantly surprised to find that my cheap controller "remembered" the last setting at power off, so turning them on and off just takes the flip of a switch without fumbling for a remote. The remote is only used to change modes (select color, flash, fade, beat to music, etc.).

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys for interrest, I appreciate ;)

Mike, I use this controller : http://www.ampoule-leds.fr/controleur-rgb-bandeau-led-telecommande-28-touches-p-3022.html

[Sdc77]

Took few hours to weld very little connectors for led ribons :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led06.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led07.JPG

[Sdc77]

Hi guys,
Here are updates of the weekend.
New steering wheel in place. I almost had to destroy the factory one because the keyway was in a bad position. I had to drill a hole in the factory hub to acces it.
It looks great, but it's closer to the dash, I have to build a spacer to get 2-3 more centimeters.

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_1854.JPG

I also wired and fired the front RGB leds. Speed of the RGB controler fade is too fast IMO, but I can choose any color I want.
I will place 2 more under rear cup holders, a 3 leds module under the dash board, and maybe one in the little hatch behind the engine dog house. I fired it around 6 pm today, with daylight, it seems powerfull and shinny.

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/led08.JPG

Here is a video at daylight :


https://vimeo.com/50485057

Video with cover on the bow :


https://vimeo.com/50485058

[sybrmike]

Looking good. I don't know about that particular RGB controller you linked (and I can't read the French manual), but most have an adjustment for the speed of the fade in addition to color selection.

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys.
I'm proud of it. I swear I didn't drill any hole in my boat or kill any animal to do this :)
I did this video to show how many colours I can get, but definatly I use it with fixed colour (pink and purple are sexy colours on the boat), my boat is not a christmas tree :p

Can't wait to receive the stuff to make the underwater Led spot, I'm sur you will love it, how it's simple to make and how cheap it is ;)

Stay tuned

[Sdc77]

ngavdba my girlfriend wants you to invite us in Georgia ! what is there to visit anyway appart your boat ?

[Sdc77]

Hey guys. Here is one of the last update of the season, as the boat is now on the trailer, ready for winterizing.

So, as I post before, I find the new steering wheel too close to the dash. So I decided to built a freebie hub rizer. Here is how I proceed : I asked to my metal partner company to give me 20 pieces of 2mm thickness aluminium washer. As you can see, finition was average, because they use a punching machine.
I then glued all those washer together with cyanoacrylate glue.
Then I screwed it to get a solid piece and I started to hand file it. Then I polished it with the same tools I used for the TSB face and the seat feet.
Here are photos :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub01.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub02.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub03.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub04.JPG

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub05.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub06.JPG

Factory hub of the new steering wheel :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub07.JPG

I bought longer SS screws :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub08.JPG

[haugy]

That's badass. What's the finished product look like? How do you like the new wheel? Pictures?

[Sdc77]

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub09.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/hub10.JPG

Easy and cheap ;)

Maybe it's not the best way to rize a hub, but it's shinny and looks like factory

I failed my first attempt on the underwater led. It works but it's awful. So I have to work more on it.

[Sdc77]

Thanks haugy, but you reply too quick ;) I'm limited to 4 pics per post, so I post it piece by piece.
The new steering wheel is very nice, giving this old boat a new look. It's same diameter, and with my riser, is at the perfect position to cruise like an american car, giving more space for legs etc.

[TitanTn]

Dude, you've got some mad fabricating skills. Very nice result.

[86 century]

Looks great

I guess we take for granted that here we could just order a polished aluminium spacer from one of ten different places and have it in a day or two.

[sybrmike]

Another sharp looking, well executed modification. Congratulations.

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys, I really appreciate, and enjoy posting on the US forum. Many people are here, answering, congratulating etc.
I have 5 times less succes on our french wakeboard forum.
I'm not born in the good country ;)

[86 century]

If you do make the trip across the pond. You will haft to make a stop up north as well.
Georgia is god awful hot in the summer you would need to go to Atlanta atleast one to see just how bad American traffic can be.

[haugy]

That's look very nice man, great result.


Soooooooooooooooooooo what are you going to do with the old one? :) I'd be glad to take it off your hands, and would even pay for the shipping, if I can figure out how.

[Sdc77]

@ ngavdba
I extended the wheel, because the distance between the captain seat full at rear position and the top of the wheel is too far from our arms. The factory direction has an angle of almost 35 - 40°. Means when I give distance the the dash, I also give distance from the floor, and so, place for legs.
Glad to read I'm welcome in your house :)

@ century
I would love to travel the US from side to side. I don't know from where to start. You have so many different paysages and interresting destination. It's a brainstorm.

@ haugy
I will take a photo of the factory wheel. It's almost completly destroyed as I wright before. I broke the hub in few places, drill it up of the keyway, the cap holder (round plastic sheet) is broken in 2 pieces. Wait for the photos and let me know ...

One more time, thank you guys for congrats and interrest :)

[Sdc77]

haugy,
Here are photos of the factory wheel :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/wheel1.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/wheel2.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/wheel3.JPG

[Sdc77]

The last run of the year. I ran it yesterday to get the engine at working temperature, then I disconnect home water and fill the engine with 22L of -20°C car antifreeze (it's already a mixture of water, alcool etc.). I don't know if it's the best way to winterize the engine and if 22 liters is enough, too much, or not. Maybe you have a tips ?


https://vimeo.com/52375019

What I observed, is that running on pressurised home water, there is just water at exhaust, but with antifreeze, there is white smoke. I first thaught about a cylinder head gasket, but, as it smoked from both exhausts, I thaught about it : no pressure (I simply pour antifreez in the trans heat exchanger), so a little amount of antifreeze in hot exhaust, maybe it gets very hot and vaporize ? What do you think about it ?

[wotan2525]

You are absolutely correct about the "white smoke" it is actually steam. I would not worry about this.

22liters is close to the right amount but I have to wonder if you made sure to pull the thermostat out first?

Also -- automotive antifreeze (at least here) is incredibly toxic and bad for the environment. You'll need to drain/capture it before you can run in the spring. RV antifreeze is much preferred, it's cheaper, will naturally decompose and even though I personally think it's immoral, you can dump allow it drain back into the ground/water if you need/want to.

[Sdc77]

Thanks for advises wotan. No didn't pull the thermostat out. I ran the engine till it reached working temp (~90°C), assuming the thermostat was opened enough to let antifreeze come inside the engine block.
I will drain the block/exhaust/water pump next season and get back antifreeze, as it is expensive and in fact toxic for environment.

I did a search on google with "RV antifreeze". I have to admit something : We don't have such thing in France ! How can we be so prehistorical people ?
Definitly not born in the good country ... :(

[wotan2525]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but the thermostat only opens for a brief period of time (unless you are recirculating the water.) There's no guarantee that it was open while you were sucking in the antifreeze. I always pull the thermostat before I flush with antifreeze -- just makes me know that the antifreeze is being pushed through and hopefully replacing the water that was in there. You could pull the thermostat housing, remove the thermostat, remove the drain plugs and then pour antifreeze into the thermostat housing until it was draining out the back. Would (probably) be cheaper/easier as long as your drain plugs aren't stuck.

[Sdc77]

Hi guys, It's been a while !
I just start working back on the boat for this season.
Here is how it looks after winter (we didn't cleaned it after the last season ...)
http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_2129.JPG
and after acid cleaning :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_2130.JPG

So, as I promised, here is my home made underwater led spots.
I start with This 24 SMD 12v 5050 LED bulb (http://www.ampoule-leds.fr/ampoule-led-mr16-24-led-smd-5050-bleue-140degres-10-17v-dc-p-3296.html) :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed01.JPG
And broke it (carefully, as leds tend to unweld easyly ...) to keep the pcb board :
http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed02.JPG

[Sdc77]

Then, I bought table feet plastic sheet, lagrer than the pcb. I cut 3 pieces of plastic sheet and hot glued it to the board to keep it few millimeters from the bottom of the table sheet, and weld wires.
Then I pour inclusion epoxy resin in the sheet and waited 24h.
Here is the result :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed03.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed04.JPG

It's perfectly sealed from water.
I then put it in place of the flap connectors, with SS screws and silicon behind it :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed05.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed06.JPG

[Sdc77]

It's powerful, but not as directive as a dedicated wated led. Weather here is awful, so I can't say if it works as good in water as on the trailer. Wait and see ;)

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed07.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/marinLed08.JPG

[TitanTn]

Wow, that looks like a big clean up job! How did you go about that?

Once again, your fabricating skills are impressive. So how much do you have into these lights? I'm assuming you saved significantly over buying a pair.

[Sdc77]

Hi Titan.
I cleaned it with oxalic gel acid. It's long because you need to wait 20 min before cleaning with water.

My led are the cheapest way for underwater stuff.
Plastic sheet is 1.6$ each, led bulb is 8$ each and resin is 30$ for 1liter ( I can build many spot led with this quantity !)
We can say about 13$ each underwater spot led :)
So yes, I saved significantly $$$ :)
Thanks again for your feedback

[sybrmike]

As always - impressive work! Be sure to post some pictures of the lights in action once the weather improves.

[Sdc77]

Thank you Mike. The boat should be in water in 2 weeks, don't worry I will post pictures of the boat by night with LEDs.
Next step is home made tower spot led, keep watching ;)

[Sdc77]

Hey guys, I started the engine yesterday on the hose garden. Starts at first rotation, but it tends to overheat. Reading 180 190 degrees on the gauge. I just change the raw water impeller and gasket.
So I'm looking for a new thermostat now. It seems to be a rare part, isn't it ? Couldn't find one with same looking at skidim.
Does anyone know where to buy it or a replacement part ?

[Jetlink]

Did you install the raw water pump correctly? If installed backwards, the pump will attempt to flow water the opposite direction and can cause an overheat situation. Before spending any money, I'd make sure you installed the pump correctly.

[Sdc77]

Yes, I took photo before I remove it, it's mounted exactly the same way it was before.
On other thing, exhaust were cold after 30min running and hoses close to the thermostat housing were very hot.
I think about 3 things : to much rust in the engine, or thermostat, or engine water pump.
Any advise ?

[TitanTn]

The thermostat is a good guess, and worth replacing if you don't know its age. Skidim should have the right one, I bought mine there. I will agree that it's not always easy to find exactly what you need just by using their web site though. You should try sending them an email with your specs and I'm sure they'll have what you need.

[Salty87]

agree with jetlink but it's probably the hoses that are connected backwards. did you remove both of the 2" hoses at the bottom? they have to go back on the same sides they were originally. i'd try swapping them real quick.

did you remove the wakeplate for the leds? have you taken her out without the plate yet? i'm curious to hear if it handled much differently that just having it set all the way up.

[Sdc77]

Thanks guys for advises, but really the pump is connected as it was last year ! At the beggining of the last season, the engine stays arround 160°, but at the end of the season, it tends to overheat at idle only, but when I give some gas arround 1200rpm, then no more overheat.

Yesterday when I start the engine, same phenomenon : Tends to overheat at idle, and colder over 1200rpm, but more than 160° yet. That's why I'm looking first for the thermostat issue.

Salty, the first time we tryed the boat, the wake plate was in place. The wake was splashing, small and looked like a stern drive's wake. Then I remove it, replace by an aluminium plate not longer than the boat and tryed it again. No possible comparison : the wake is no more splashing and definitly bigger with a nice shape (close the the Mastercraft X35, but smaller ...). As connectors where still in place, I remove it to put the led's wire through the holes.

I will send an email to skidim, there is a number on my thermostat, maybe it will help to find the good one. And yes, it looks old, so it's safer to change it :)

[Jetlink]

If your temp comes down with an increase in throttle, I wonder if the impeller itself is starting to fail due to being worn.

[Sdc77]

Jetlink, the impeller is brand new, I just change it. Do you mean the circulation pump ?

[Jetlink]

Are you running it out of the water and using a hose?

[Sdc77]

On the hose garden. So, cold water with pressure

[Jetlink]

I can never seem to get my thermostat reading to get even close let alone greater than 150-160 degrees Fahrenheit when I run on the hose. I guess the easy fix here is a new thermostat and go from there.

[sybrmike]

I'd try the thermostat like the others suggested. Also, were all of the blades of the old water pump impeller intact when you replaced it? Could it be impeller parts or other debris in the hoses?

[haugy]

Simple test:

Take the thermostat out. And put it all back together. It won't hurt the engine at all. In fact, seeing as we only drive these in warm weather you really don't need one. All it's doing is helping the engine maintain a constant temperature.

But to test if it's the thermostat or not, remove it. Open the housing, pull out the t-stat, put the housing back together. Then hook up your garden hose and start it up. If it runs perfectly cool, you know it's the t-stat.

[Sdc77]

Mike, the old impeller was in good shape, only the blades took the form of the pump, but no debris inside.

Haugy, that's exactly what I was thinking to do. Then if it's still hot, the only other thing I see is rust in the coolant system of the engine block (I had this problem on my 5.0L TBi 1989 Camaro, rear cylinders were not cooled because of this).

I'm trying to clean and save the old T-stat (it's in coca cola + cillit bang), as I find the replacement part on the net, the s-stat reference is R026003, it costs 134$ :eek:

Next news in two weeks, I'm going to hollydays with my GF in Italy.

Thanks to every one for your help :)

[wotan2525]

Yikes! That t-stat here in the US is about $6.

[Sdc77]

wotan, are you sure about that ? I didn't find this t-stat here in france, only on US website, cheapest is here :
https://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?pnumber=PCMRP026003&mfg=PCM&mcat1=22&mcat2=0&mcat3=0&mfgcategory=Thermostats&mfgno=RP026003 &desc=PCM 145 Degree Thermostat with Gasket

If you have another place to buy it, let me know ;)

[TitanTn]

I don't know if it's the same thermostat as mine, but I know mine was the $60 dollar-ish variety. I could change out the housing and start using the cheaper one, but that's not cheap either.

[wotan2525]

Isn't this a 454? Mine just uses a regular auto thermostat. Gates 33006S is the 160F version. http://www.amazon.com/Gates-33006S-Thermostat/dp/B000Q0WZJS

I think this is the same part number for the Ford engines, too.

[TitanTn]

Mine is a 454, and I assume his is too. If I remember correctly it depends on who did the marinization and what year they did that work. They used different thermostat housing at different times and unfortunately mine is one that requires a non-automotive style thermostat.

[Salty87]

don't know why but the 454 thermostat in mine is very hard to find online. it used to be part #0701 from Skidim but it's not showing on their site. they don't show any thermostat for PCM 454. i'd shoot them an email.

this is what mine looks like
http://www.go2marine.com/docs/2/1/2/5/212597F-p.jpg

[wotan2525]

Salty87 -- Looking at your housing, it does look taller than mine. I wonder if it would matter, though. The top half of the housing clamps the thermostat down. It seems like the auto thermostat would still work -- I bet it's the same diameter. As long as it opens when it's hot, how could it make a difference?

[Sdc77]

Mine is also the non automotive one, looking like a cylinder.
Here is my housing :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_2154.JPG

Here is my T-stat :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/IMG_2155.JPG

Does anyone have the same housing with an automitive t-stat inside ?

Salty, do you know the price of the t-stat #0701 from Skidim ? Is it a 160° or 145° ?

[Salty87]

i think it's a 160 but not sure about that. send them an email. they are super helpful and know all about old supras.

[2500HD]

http://www.marineparts.com/partspages/Pleasurecraft/pleasure2.htm

[TitanTn]

i think it's a 160 but not sure about that. send them an email. they are super helpful and know all about old supras.

That's mine as well. I second the thoughts about Skidim, and when I spoke with them about it a couple of years ago they said that there isn't an automotive equivalent and I'd have to change housings to start using a different t-stat.

And I want to say it's 160 degrees, but for some reason 145 also sticks out in my mind.

[Sdc77]

On mine it's writen 145.
Sent Skidim an email yesterday, still wait for the answer.
Keep you in touch

[haugy]

Salty87 -- Looking at your housing, it does look taller than mine. I wonder if it would matter, though. The top half of the housing clamps the thermostat down. It seems like the auto thermostat would still work -- I bet it's the same diameter. As long as it opens when it's hot, how could it make a difference?

That's my thought. I'd look at the auto t-stats of the same diameter. They are just valves that open when heated. Nothing overly complex. If it fits the correct diameter, and the temperature rating, you should be good to go.

I'd probably go with the 145 degree t-stat. I'd rather it open up earlier so if there is a problem I know before the motor got too hot.

[Sdc77]

I'm afraid about the exhaust temperature if I try to put in place a car T-stat without this particular cylinder geometry. But for the price, I can try, this can save time and money.

Here is the answer of skidim :


The PCM original 145 degree, Item #0701, is no longer available. We were
selling a newer 98-2002 housing and T-stat but now they are gone as well.
We have ordered an aftermarket housing that uses the standard T-stat. It
will be in on Friday and we want to check it for fit before we sell it. We
can ship to France but will have to get back to you when we verify it will
work

I will go for a 160° t-stat, as I'm looking for an efficient engine to save gas, hotter is better. I always take a look at the temperature gauge, as I'm a little bit unlucky with engine's temperature ...

[haugy]

I'm afraid about the exhaust temperature if I try to put in place a car T-stat without this particular cylinder geometry. But for the price, I can try, this can save time and money.

Here is the answer of skidim :

I will go for a 160° t-stat, as I'm looking for an efficient engine to save gas, hotter is better. I always take a look at the temperature gauge, as I'm a little bit unlucky with engine's temperature ...

Interesting. I thought a cooler engine ran better than hot?

[wotan2525]

A cooler engine makes more power (cold air is more dense) but a warmer engine uses less gas/runs more efficiently/and the hotter oil is good for everything.