replace wood stringers with solid plastic deck molding?

[sitdownsteve]

My buddy has a pallet of 1x6in solid plastic deck molding laying around he got for free, I just seen this stuff and its solid as a 2x4 if not a little more.... Would I be able to bond that to the hull and would it be to stiff... Input please, if I can use this I'm ripping the cap off this weekend

[Salty87]

too lazy to google...what's it made of? i don't think i would. i've read of plastic deck boards rotting.

maybe it's better to say it's a real gamble. you tell us how it turns out, lol.

[sitdownsteve]

yeah i googled deck molding to replace wood stringers not much out there on that, it is made of recycled materials and their website says it won’t rot, warp, or splinter ever... im not worried about it rotting im more intersested in can new stringers be to stiff i geuss

[sitdownsteve]

also if i do use it what do you think would be the best way to bond it to the hull, same method as wood stringers resign or epoxy

[bens250ex]

Prob will not bond. I tried some for floor support and it wouldn't bond

[Okie Boarder]

I'm thinking that you will have trouble getting it to bond. The key would be to find out exactly what it is made of then check to see if particular resins will bond to it. Otherwise it's just a WAG.

[sitdownsteve]

Lol what is wag? Yes getting it to bond seems to be my main concern, last night I took some fiberglass cloth and resin and let it set up, today I took the composite board drilled a 13/16 hole near the bottom, put resin on the fiberglass and bottom of the plastic then pulled a peice of fiberglass cloth through the hole and covered everything with resin and now I am waiting for it to cure then I will see how easy it will be to break apart, then I geuss I will make my decision to move forward or not

[sitdownsteve]

Well the bond held, I couldn't break it with my hands, it took standing on the fiberglass with one foot and kicking the 2x6 with my other foot and even then the bond didn't break just the 4 layers of raw fiberglass I was standing on cracked... So looks like I'm doing away with 90% of the wood on this boat and replacing it with composite lumber, hope to have the cap off by the end of the week

[lively]

another way i would test it is in the strength of the source itself .... does it flex ? bend easy? fiberglass boats that have wood stringers rely on the wood itself for the
strength
not the glass .. so if the composite material you are using will bend or flex , i would deff double up on layers of wood and use at least 5 layers of glass ( 1708 ) 2 layers of tabbing and 3 layers to rap over the stringer to bond to the hull ... what is the material called ?

[sitdownsteve]

Trex decking is the material and it is by no means weak, like I said before it seems as strong or stronger than same size peice of wood

[Salty87]

from: http://www.mrdeck.com/products_files/Plank_Comparisons.htm#Trex

"Both Timbertech and Trex are made from plastic and wood sawdust. Both turn gray with the weather, not to a "silver" as claimed by their manufacturers, but to an ugly musty gray. Both products are susceptible to speckles of black mildew because the resins leach out at the surface and this exodus forms surface micro-pockets. Now the wood chips are exposed and the chips, being organic, bring on the mildew which then thrives in these pockets!"


there's lots of stuff like this all over the internet. plywood isn't perfect but it's time tested.

[Okie Boarder]

WAG = Wild A$$ Guess

[sitdownsteve]

from: http://www.mrdeck.com/products_files/Plank_Comparisons.htm#Trex

"Both Timbertech and Trex are made from plastic and wood sawdust. Both turn gray with the weather, not to a "silver" as claimed by their manufacturers, but to an ugly musty gray. Both products are susceptible to speckles of black mildew because the resins leach out at the surface and this exodus forms surface micro-pockets. Now the wood chips are exposed and the chips, being organic, bring on the mildew which then thrives in these pockets!"



there's lots of stuff like this all over the internet. plywood isn't perfect but it's time tested.


Yes I have read the same things but the leading cause to all that is the sun which isn't a factor here

[jet]

Just use wood, and it will last another 16 yrs.

[sitdownsteve]

Just use wood, and it will last another 16 yrs.

Or use plastic that won't ever rot and it will last forever, they say it takes an estimated 2000 years to decompose where it takes treated wood 10 years and un treated wood 2 years, so why would I wanna use wood? It's proven not to last, that's why everyone has to do this in the first place

[riveredge]

I agree with the OP that if you have a good, strong, cost-effective alternative to wood, then absolutely go for it. If you're planning on keeping the boat for a long time, you'll NEVER have to deal with rotten stringers ever again. If you're selling it, then you don't have to worry about it in the very long term anyway. It will be solid for a period of time either way, and I think you're taking the right approach with a little testing first. I also think that the trex stuff would be a lot more agreeable to a patch, or filling a hole from a stripped bolt or something. With rotten wood, you have little chance of that. As long as you do what you're doing and test the bonding, it should be a great solution.

If I keep my boat for the long term (it's been 7 years actually!) and if I go through the massive effort of DIY floor and stringers, there's no way I'd put wood back in there unless the cost was overwhelmingly less. No foam either!

I have to rebuild my rear floor piece over the stuffing box and I'm thinking of going with aluminum, just so I never have to touch it, ever again...

[sitdownsteve]

I agree with the OP that if you have a good, strong, cost-effective alternative to wood, then absolutely go for it. If you're planning on keeping the boat for a long time, you'll NEVER have to deal with rotten stringers ever again. If you're selling it, then you don't have to worry about it in the very long term anyway. It will be solid for a period of time either way, and I think you're taking the right approach with a little testing first. I also think that the trex stuff would be a lot more agreeable to a patch, or filling a hole from a stripped bolt or something. With rotten wood, you have little chance of that. As long as you do what you're doing and test the bonding, it should be a great solution.

If I keep my boat for the long term (it's been 7 years actually!) and if I go through the massive effort of DIY floor and stringers, there's no way I'd put wood back in there unless the cost was overwhelmingly less. No foam either!

I have to rebuild my rear floor piece over the stuffing box and I'm thinking of going with aluminum, just so I never have to touch it, ever again...


Yeah my thoughts exactly, and I am also gonna use the same material for the floor, local lumber yard can order 4x8 sheets for $103 little pricey but after that the only wood left in the boat is the seats

[jet]

ALL true..but the odds of someone else wanting your boat in 16 more years. (crickets sound here)

tru-dat man..tru-dat.

[khelfrich]

trex is not a structural product i would not use it. if you lay enough fiberglass over the wood then you dont even need the wood core. new boats are hollow fiberglass stringers so if you use enought fiberglass and get a good biax matting or something like that then you should be able to let the wood rot and not even have a problem. the orginal wood stringers were glasses down with one layer of fiberglass as a means of securing it to the bottom of the hull

Ken

[sitdownsteve]

trex is not a structural product i would not use it. if you lay enough fiberglass over the wood then you dont even need the wood core. new boats are hollow fiberglass stringers so if you use enought fiberglass and get a good biax matting or something like that then you should be able to let the wood rot and not even have a problem. the orginal wood stringers were glasses down with one layer of fiberglass as a means of securing it to the bottom of the hull

Ken


How much structural support does it really need though? Doing 20mph wakeboarding or 40mph on a glass lake hitting some small wakes really gonna crack the hull? I mean we see what little the factory did and all the bad stringers out there that the structure hasn't failed I don't see much of a problem.

[Jetlink]

It is real simple guys, you know how the phrase goes about opinions...to each their own. Personally, I plan on calling up Skier's choice or taking my time to figure out how or if I can get true composite stringers in my comp when that time rolls around for me.

[sitdownsteve]

It is real simple guys, you know how the phrase goes about opinions...to each their own. Personally, I plan on calling up Skier's choice or taking my time to figure out how or if I can get true composite stringers in my comp when that time rolls around for me.

You said it... I'll post pics when I get off work tonight of the boat and what I have done so far, would have done it sooner but had a Damn virus

And thanks for all the replys, input

[Hagman]

These are prefab stringers (and other components) that are pre-glassed, very lightweght, won't rot, and are easy easy easy to work with. http://www.preforms.com/products.php They are very reasonably priced.

[Hagman]

These are prefab stringers (and other components) that are pre-glassed, very lightweght, won't rot, and are easy easy easy to work with. http://www.preforms.com/products.php They are very reasonably priced.Coosa Composites 1/2" 4x8' Bluewater 26 Coosa Board
$286 online

[Hagman]

I'm thinking if I were to take the time and money to replace the stringers in my boat. I would want to use time tested materials. Also when it comes time to sell your boat what are you going to tell your potential customer? I've been installing composite decking for over 10 years, it is good material but wasn't designed to be encapsulated in fiberglass. Just my 2¢ good luck.

[sitdownsteve]

I'm thinking if I were to take the time and money to replace the stringers in my boat. I would want to use time tested materials. Also when it comes time to sell your boat what are you going to tell your potential customer? I've been installing composite decking for over 10 years, it is good material but wasn't designed to be encapsulated in fiberglass. Just my 2¢ good luck.

Many things have multiple uses just because it wasnt made or designed for this doesnt mean it wont work, and i plan on being the one to test it out, also i am not encapsulating it in fiberglass, like said above the factory only used 1 layer and in some cases not even that so it seems they didnt uses it for structure but simply to try and protect the wood which they failed. I have already tested the bond with just resin and it is strong.

[sitdownsteve]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0504.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0506.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0511.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0513.jpg

[sitdownsteve]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0512.jpg

[wspeedin]

Personally, I think you should do it. It would be great to know whether or not something like this could work. Don't worry about the nay sayers, just do it. If it doesnt work its not the end of the world. If it does work, than its another way to fix these classics and make them better than before. Cheers to you! and your ingenuity. Take lots of pictures and let us know how it goes.

[Salty87]

i'm fairly certain that none of us want to see someone bust their a$$ for nothing.

i've seen some really crappy glassing jobs by the factory but i don't think i've ever seen a boat with no glass on the stringers. if you're not encapsulating the stringers then i'm not sure what your test proved. you should try bedding a piece to the hull and then standing on that.

the point someone made about it not being structural is relevant. if you're using this stuff for the floor, you'll need more supports than was originally designed. plastic boards may sag between stringers and cross supports...esp if you plan on filling sacs.

what thickness do the boards come in? the main stringers are 1 1/2" thick...will you laminate pieces together?

[sitdownsteve]

i'm fairly certain that none of us want to see someone bust their a$$ for nothing.

i've seen some really crappy glassing jobs by the factory but i don't think i've ever seen a boat with no glass on the stringers. if you're not encapsulating the stringers then i'm not sure what your test proved. you should try bedding a piece to the hull and then standing on that.

the point someone made about it not being structural is relevant. if you're using this stuff for the floor, you'll need more supports than was originally designed. plastic boards may sag between stringers and cross supports...esp if you plan on filling sacs.

what thickness do the boards come in? the main stringers are 1 1/2" thick...will you laminate pieces together?

Yes i plan on doing another test but im not down to the hull yet, but i will do whatever it takes to make the bond as strong as it needs to be. Next once the stringers are down i will set the floor down walk on it and then make the decision if i need more cross supports. I blieve the material i have is 1x6 but could be wrong, will have to check again. yes i plan to laminate the boards together where need be.

[sitdownsteve]

well i can now say i hate rivets, after the first set was out and when i thought i was done no i then found another set underneath ugh but i got them all out and loosened up the hull and cap.

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0518.jpg

now the fun starts and the point of no return!!!!

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0519.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0522.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0524.jpg

[sitdownsteve]

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0525.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0526.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0528.jpg



it supposed to rain the next couple days but soon i will have the floor up, and foam out then on to the stringers. My goal is to be on the water before june first, list of things to do are

composite stringers & floor
rebuild all the chairs with composite material
new vinyl through out the whole boat with a black and white theme
new cup holders cut in to the side of the cap for newer updated look "stole idea from another member"
build new captain chair with cut out in the lower back like new boats have
new black carpet
new stereo system
led lights all over
build new back bench to hold ballest tank
build the floor with 4 access points, hope to put ballest in two of them between the stingers on the sides of the motor but still need to look at messurements
paint the boat and trailer
take super traps off and replace with some kind of flapper

think thats about it but probably missing a few things

[Hagman]

91020This is a piece of trex decking that's three years old. I wish you luck.

[sitdownsteve]

91020This is a piece of trex decking that's three years old. I wish you luck.

where did this pick come from, i aasume its not yours or you would have said something about it in your prevous post? My buddys deck is made of trex and is 9yrs old and doesnt look like that.

[bdumas35]

This link may be of interest. http://www.talkshopbot.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6209

I researched several options before deciding to use wood/epoxy. My experience with " composites " in my decade or so career in the surfboard, sailboard, kiteboard manufacturing business led me to try to find a better alternative to wood.

At the end of the day, marine plywood, epoxy resin and dual bias fiberglass are hard to beat. After all, this is a proven " composite ".

While doing the demo on my project, it became apparent that the wood was not the problem. I think that the bean counters at Supra may have been running the shop. Poor lamination, lack of drainage and water absorption in the flotation foam were just some of the culprits.

Maybe the Trex could work. It would seem though, that it would have to be reinforced with some type of fiberglass (or other) lamination to achieve the rigidity needed to support the loads on the hull.

What the hell, I'm no rocket scientist. Just find out if anything sticks to it and let us know it works out.

Best of luck with your project!

[Salty87]

nice front loader. i spent easily a day or 2 building a frame and then a stress-filled afternoon wrestling it off. nobody even lost any fingers.

i hope you don't mind the on-going discussion. if the boards flex, laminating them will be tough.

[sitdownsteve]

like said in a previous post if it doesnt work or end up rotten then i will just have to do the job again, not the end of the world, plus with this stuff i will be using a lot of screws so if there is a next time it should be easier

[sitdownsteve]

nice front loader. i spent easily a day or 2 building a frame and then a stress-filled afternoon wrestling it off. nobody even lost any fingers.

i hope you don't mind the on-going discussion. if the boards flex, laminating them will be tough.

thanks, its actually a backhoe, deff made it easier... nope lol i bet this thread will be a long one, i have plenty of work to do and plan on taking pics through out the job, i will have a lot more time invested in this than money and with my job i have a lot of free time, and no kids so planning on working on this alot or until the girlfriend gets pissed that she is gonna be living alone for the next 2 months lol

[Hagman]

where did this pick come from, i aasume its not yours or you would have said something about it in your prevous post? My buddys deck is made of trex and is 9yrs old and doesnt look like that.This is a picture of trex on my deck. I'm a builder and I've been using this stuff since it first come out. And for the last two years I've been replacing bad trex decking on numerous decks. Trex will pay for the material but you're out the labor. I took this picture just today. And this is typical of what I've been finding out in the field. The carpenter house is always all ways the to get fixed.

[sitdownsteve]

This is a picture of trex on my deck. I'm a builder and I've been using this stuff since it first come out. And for the last two years I've been replacing bad trex decking on numerous decks. Trex will pay for the material but you're out the labor. I took this picture just today. And this is typical of what I've been finding out in the field. The carpenter house is always all ways the to get fixed.


yes it seems there was a bad batch of this stuff going around, but im to far along to turn back now and not enough funds to change my plans so i just hope i got the good stuff if not geuss we will just have to do another build thread down the road with new goodies :-)

[lively]

Those front railings have a more slope to them then mine, I wonder if mine are stock? !

Hmmm, I say go for it! I have put in 8 months of everyweekend busting balls to get my sunsport ready by may 1st and I have got to say I. would hire some help to meet your deadline lol .... good luck and if u have any questions these guys were great helping me with my project ,
and welcome u to endlessness of grinding hours ahead :D

[zalamander]

good thread you started here Steve. I did a lot of research before redoing the stringers in my boat and what it came down to was 1.cost, 2.longevity, 3. cost, 4.workability, 5.cost., etc. I ended up doing mine out of plywood, and as mentioned before the main culprits of stringer/floor failure are poor foam, poor drainage, poor previous owners, and some shotty factory fiberglass work. After all that is addressed and fixed the plywood stringers should last at least 10-15 years. I'm rooting for you to succeed with the composite stringers mainly because I was too scared to go that route myself. Good luck and keep us posted!!! :)

[DKJBama92Mariah]

I would call a fiberglass repair shop and ask them what they think of using the plastic type boards for stringers. A fiberglass boat hull must flex to some degree while running through waves at speed in the water. The hull is going to flex no matter what, the question is will the plastic cored stringers flex with it or break away from it. I honestly don't know. If it were feasible, I'd think we'd see some boats made from the factory with starboard cored stringers. (Starboard is a composite wood replacement material marketed to the marine industry) It does seem like a really good idea. but before you put all that work into it, it might be worthwhile to ask someone with professional experience for their opinion.

I do know one thing: Running at speed in a heavy chop headed to the boat ramp trying to outrun a thunderstorm is a lousy time for a structural hull failure.

[sitdownsteve]

well i got the floor up and most of the foam out also, next step is to bring it to the boat ramp and make sure there are no leaks in the hull then off to pull the motor start on the stringers

here is what it looks like now

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0538.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0539.jpg

http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f195/sitdownsteve/IMAG0540.jpg

[wiatowski]

Progress?????

[TallTex]

Sorry ol buddy but Trex is a "structural" product that is used to build decks that can support more weight than a boat, motor and trailer on it. I never thought about using such a material but what you say is also true.....use more epoxy resin and fiberglass cloth. There is a good web site for buying glass that also helps you calculate what its strength will be complete. "fabuglass" or something