I have 5 days and need some help.....

[jasun]

I bought an 86 Saltare with 900 hours on the 454. Went to look at it and the guy started it up and it idled fine and he put it in gear and it ran fine (on the hose). I bought the thing but put in the bill of sale I get 5 days to bring it back if there is something wrong.

Picked it up yesterday and took to the lake today. I started it up before I went to the ramp real quick and turned it right back off.

got to the ramp and it started fine and put it in reverse and got back a little way and it felt like it did not want to go back very fast at all. put it in forward and it died... then it would not start.

Longer story short, took off the top of the carb and held open the flapper and it started but would not run unless I had it throttled up. then i noticed that the rear "barrels" (im not a machinic and do not know what they are called, but the flappers in the rear barrels) would not open. I could not turn the side to get it them to open and at WOT (with it off), they would not open.

After looking at it, it looks like they are in the wrong way??? It looks like they open the opposite way as the front ones... The front ones open clock wise if I am looking at it from the passenger side. but the rear ones look like they open counter clockwise.... but i could not get them to open at all in either direction. I figure that this is what is keeping it from running... here a couple pics with my phone...


I dont know if you can see but the left side is below the right side:
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/Johnson-20120905-00037-2.jpg

the "cam" on the passenger side is stuck in this position:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/IMG-20120905-00038-2.jpg

Here is a close look:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/IMG-20120905-00039-2.jpg

I have 4 days left to make a decision. I think I got it a good price and cannot for the life of me figure out why it ran fine for him, but now the rear will not open...

The guy said he had it rebuilt this spring and has had it out 3 times...

Any quick help is much appreciated.



Thanks

[michael hunter]

Im pretty sure they are vacuum operated secondaries . Did you ever get it to operating temp and test drive it?

[mr.jrc]

Jasun, those back barrels are the secondary's, actuated by a vacuum actuator (right side of the carb) with a controlled moderation by the primary throttle (left side). While they don't move as freely as the primary's (front two barrels), you should be able to pull up on the vacuum actuator and get them to move. The secondary's don't kick in till to "get on it". The primary's are what your idle speed, lower RPM and steady-state operation rely on to fuel the engine. I would focus on the idle speed set screw on the primary's, give it a turn to increase the idle fuel... this screw is on the lever adjacent to the throttle linkage. THe secondary's have a tendency to not close all the way, and i have seen the idle screw backed all the way down, and when the secondary's do close as intended, you don't have enough fuel to maintain idle.

[cadunkle]

I would rebuild that carb. The carb base plate and spacer have RTV sealing them. You never use RTV on a carb or anywhere near a carb. It can get in things and cause problems or just not seal well. If the rest of hte boat is as hacked as the carb, you may have a major project on your hands.... Could be worth it depending on stringer condition and price, shouldn't take more than a few days to de-ghetto a bunch of stuff like that.

Carb is vacuum secondary and the secondary side of carb is not your problem with not idling/starting. Unless it's pouring fuel out the boosters or vent.

How are the stringers?

For the engine... Are you getting a good strong spark? If you are, then dive into the carb... To quickly go over it get a can or tow of carb cleaner (good stuff, I like the Valvoline synthetic) and spray off the carb, particularly around the main body, inside barrels, above/below throttle butterflies, and around air bleeds. Then use the straw on the can to spray directly into the air bleeds on top of the carb. There are 8, 2 per barrel. Hold it right on each air bleed tight and spray for a second or two in each at full blast. Then hose over it with the carb cleaner to dissolve and remaining residue. Then screw in idle mixture screws all the way, out 2.5 turns, crank idle stop screw out a turn or two to raise idle, start it, set idle speed with stop screw... Follow my idle mixture adjustment steps in this thread... https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?11624-idle-mixture-screws...

Hopefully that gets it running decent if it's a carb problem. If not, and it is a carb problem, it'll need a rebuild or replacement.

[CornRickey]

Not you problem but the "j" tube shouldn't be bent down into the venturi like it is. It is the tube that comes up from the top of the carbon and bends down to the primaries.

[wotan2525]

If you can't figure this out in your 5-day "trial period" then you are into nothing but headaches. Boats are a lot of maintenance and work. Either make the commitment or don't. I don't believe that this is the sellers problem and it sounds like something that can cheaply and easily be resolved if you're willing to do the research and make an effort. We're all here to help!

[jasun]

Thanks for all the good replies... One other thing it is doing, and I didnt realize this until I read another thread, was it is dumping fuel in after I take it off throttle. After reading that other thread, it would seem that i need to adjust the Floats as well.

I will try all this tonight and see how it goes..

[jasun]

I really got in there last night after giving up on the Carb to check the stringers and everything. I checked all the mounting bolts and they were solid. A couple turned maybe a 1/4 turn and seated. None sat and kept spinning. There is no double floor on it and no soft spots. The bottom of the boat looks amazing... no dings or anything from beaching. The interior was redone this year as well.

The cover needs some attention and I am pretty sure it has neve sat in the water in the past 10 years (either on a lift of trailered).

I want to get this figured out so I can water test the girl...

The guy told me the carb was rebuilt this spring by a local shop...

[cadunkle]

Not you problem but the "j" tube shouldn't be bent down into the venturi like it is. It is the tube that comes up from the top of the carbon and bends down to the primaries.

Not sure waht you're talking about. The primary bowl vent looks fine to me. It's not into the venturi and in fact is not even into the choke tower. It looks to be undamaged and just above the choke tower, allowing room for the choke butterfly to operate. Seems normal to me.

[CornRickey]

Maybe its just the picture but it looks like its bent down into the port throat to me. With the timeliness your talking about and the issues you have and the fact if was "rebuilt", I'd either let the seller know of your issues tell him your going to bring it back. I would think he would either tell you to blow off (now knowing he was full of it from the beginning and time isn't a issue) or offer to split the cost of a new carb. Not all rebuilt carbs are the same.

[Blackntan90]

Not sure waht you're talking about. The primary bowl vent looks fine to me. It's not into the venturi and in fact is not even into the choke tower. It looks to be undamaged and just above the choke tower, allowing room for the choke butterfly to operate. Seems normal to me.

I looked at my carb- original Holley 600- Looks like the one in the picture, I think its called a 'j' tube.

[CornRickey]

Yup. Your right

[ruby23m]

Check your private messages, I had fuel dumping into my engine when shutting off, with the throttle advanced when off and even at neutral.


I really got in there last night after giving up on the Carb to check the stringers and everything. I checked all the mounting bolts and they were solid. A couple turned maybe a 1/4 turn and seated. None sat and kept spinning. There is no double floor on it and no soft spots. The bottom of the boat looks amazing... no dings or anything from beaching. The interior was redone this year as well.

The cover needs some attention and I am pretty sure it has neve sat in the water in the past 10 years (either on a lift of trailered).

I want to get this figured out so I can water test the girl...

The guy told me the carb was rebuilt this spring by a local shop...

[jasun]

thanks for all the helpful tips. it ended up being the floats needed adjusted and it ran just fine!

I now have one more question.. what is a good idle speed? it seem to idle hight because when I would put it in gear it would lurch forward and not very smooth...
Thanks again!

[ruby23m]

Awesome! Trust me I had my last month of boating last summer entrenched in frustration, glad you were able to figure it out within a few days!

[ruby23m]

BTW, idle speed should be between 650-700 while in gear. If you are making a wake its probably too fast and really should be no lurching, actually quite smooth.

[jasun]

BTW, idle speed should be between 650-700 while in gear. If you are making a wake its probably too fast and really should be no lurching, actually quite smooth.

Thanks again! I will adjust it tonight if the weather cooperates with me!