84 Rider questions

[chris young]

Hi folks

I just bought a 1984 Rider (PCM) and the seller will be dropping it off at my cottage next weekend. I'm in the process of designing and building a cradle that will run on rails to the water for launch and retrieval.

The problem is this, the boat must be backed on to the cradle, which I'm pretty sure I can manage, but I'm worried that the speedo probes will be in the way. Do they retract? or am I going to have to get a measurement before I finalize the width of the bunks?

Also, I'm completely new to inboards, does anyone have any recommended reading? I'm skiing behind a new Nautique at my club so I'm around them enough, but it's new, and my boat isn't.

Thanks

[Jetlink]

Am I understanding you correctly I. That you will not be driving the boat onto the cradle but having to back on to the cradle stern first? If so, good luck with that man, these boats are super precise going forwards...backing up, well that's a completely different animal. Mine backs up to the right no matter where the wheel is places, these boats either swing stern right or stern left depending on prop rotation and make for interesting dockings sometimes.

[chris young]

Not backing in from the water side, just for being pulled off the trailer on delivery. It would be better to have the railway built and just launch the boat from the trailer and bring it to the cradle, but unfortunately that won't be possible for a number of reasons. I will have the cradle built and sitting on the shore section of track when the boat arrives, and I will be pulling the boat off the trailer and onto the cradle, stern first. Hence my question of whether you can fold the speedo sensors out of the way or not.

Once the boat is on the cradle, then whenever it is launched or retrieved the aft 4' of the boat will not be resting on the cradle, so the speedo sensors will not be an issue.

Which brings me to my other questions, how long are the skegs and does any one know approximately where the center of gravity is? My guess is just forward of the motor.

[Jetlink]

For the skegs, you need about 4-5 inches of clearance I believe to clear any cross members... At least my comp does, I set mine at 6 inches clearance and I am able to clear the skegs but that is it, the strut clears but the prop and rudder need more. As for the pitots, not sure if they kick up the way that you are going to need them to in order to pull this swap off. They might be able to "kick up" a little in order to save them selves from severe damage if hitting something while running forward. Pictures might help in this case of the pitot and also what you are having to clear on the cradle. As for the center of gravity, it is most likely located just in front of or towards the front of the engine. Re-reading your post above though, 4 feet hanging off the back might be a bit much, I would have to measure but like I said, my prop strut is usually located over the rear cross member of my lift and the remainder hangs off the back of the lift.

[chris young]

Thanks Ben,

I've actually modified the design, and I've decided to go for a 12' bunk so only 2 or 3 feet will be hanging off the back. I've been scouring photos to estimate the position of the pitot probes (didn't know they were called that, same as aircraft, makes sense) just in case. When I went over the boat I measured the position of the skegs, and the depth of the prop and rudder, but I failed to measure the probes and skeg depth.

[chris young]

Boat is just feet away in garage so I can measure anything you need.

Thanks much for that! Your pics and that crazy restoration with the hundreds of pics were what I was using for reference, and I was just going to take a set of calipers to the screen and do the math, as I know the boat is 85" wide. I don't need the measurement right away, so don't get up, as the distance between the bunks won't be set until next saturday, but if you could tell me how far in from the edge of the hull the pitot tubes are and how far they hang down, that would be awesome. Also how long the skegs are would be helpful too. I'll post some pics when I take them.

[Jetlink]

Geez Dan, the lack of a prop and rudder guard would make me nervous especially seeing how little clearance there is there!

Wonder if Chris can just remove the two screws holding the pitots to the hull for the swap and then reinstall after the boat is on the cradle thus saving them from damage.

[chris young]

WOW!

Thanks for that! I guess I should have been a bit more specific for the pitot measurement. I was looking for the distance from the centerline of the boat to the pitots or the distance in from the outer edge of the hull. I just need to spread the bunks so they are an inch or two inside the pitots. Or as Ben suggested, just pop 'em off during the swap.

Cheers

[chris young]

Man, You Rock!

That's exactly what I was looking for. Thanks!

The carriage is built in the garage, now I have to transport it 200 miles to the cottage on the roof (in pieces) and assemble it next weekend. The boat is supposed to arrive on Sunday.

Wish me luck! I'll post photos from the operation. I'm jazzed to get this boat.

Cheers

[86 century]

Liking the licence plate

[DAFF]

Love everything in the garage but I think you got the wrong colour truck..... Saw a nice red Escalade that would match the rider almost exactly. PS it is people like you which make this forum priceless to new and old Supra owners alike.

[Jetlink]

Dan, you should see about changing out the red GMC tag in the grille for a SC or something like another members van that hauls a certain boat.

[chris young]

Another question, how do you hook up the hose to run it out of the water? And how far above the lake can you get away with?

[chris young]

Thanks man,

What I meant about lake level was that I was assuming that you didn't need to have a pressurized hose for this, just a hose dropped in to the lake, as the pump in the boat normally just pulls it's own water. I'm guessing that you're actually attaching this to the hose on the house?

[DAFF]

Rather than spend the cash on a new truck, perhaps its the boat which is the wrong colour. :D
Everyone needs two boats anyhow.

[Jetlink]

Hey Chris, most of us use the hose and run it off of the house, however, you are correct in assuming that the raw water pump will be able to supply enough pressure to draw water from the lake, through the hose and fake a lake to cool the engine.

[chris young]

I like the idea of taking off the intake hose, that way I can fill the bucket with antifreeze when I'm done, as it'll need to be winterized at the same time.

I'm quite capable mechanically, I just don't know anything about boats. I'm assuming you're talking about disconnecting the hose where it attaches at the hull? Typically how is that held on? Gear clamp?

Thanks for the tips

Agreed on the above boat. Looks too much like something Batman would drive:rolleyes:

[chris young]

Thanks again, this is getting easier all the time!

Cheers

[chris young]

BTW I noticed you're in AV. Me too! I'm the AV techologist for the Univeristy of Guelph.

And, do you ski? I'm a newbe as a 15 off skier, I'm used to a current Nautique with all the bells and whistles. I bought the boat specifically to ski behind, so I'm keen to know how it feels.

Cheers

[DAFF]

So Chris where is home??? I would definitly take the time and drain the block and exhaust manifolds before running antifreeze through the engine. Expecially living in Ontario...

Sorry about the silly black boat Ngavdba ... Just could not resist teasing another classic lover, like myself.

[chris young]

Home for the boat is Westport Ontario, sort of in between Ottawa and Kingston. If you're running antifreeze throught the engine, why drain it?

[Jetlink]

Home for the boat is Westport Ontario, sort of in between Ottawa and Kingston. If you're running antifreeze throught the engine, why drain it?Peace of mind really. One, if you don't drain the block, you don't know that you have done everything possible to eliminate water from the engine that might freeze and two, water plus anti-freeze just dilutes to anti-freeze mixture down thereby decreasing the freeze protection. The engine in these boats are truly the heart and sole of the boat, take great care of them and they will provide years of great dependable service in return.

[DAFF]

I have seen way too many engines crack internally from poor winterization. Typicially the antifreeze never truly reaches its full strength in the block and the extreme cold of our climate will have its way with the block. If you drain it, it will be perfect in the spring every time!!!

There are a few members on the board from your neck of the woods. I can hear GTG for you.

[chris young]

I hear ya. I took delivery of it on Sunday. It was winterized by a marina last fall, and then never put in the water this summer. I fired it up for about 10 seconds just to make sure it ran before I handed over the money (sounds nice) I guess if I don't run it with water I'm good til spring. I was thinking about fogging it though, and correct me if this is a bad idea, but I should be able to disconnect the drive belt for the raw water pump and run the engine long enough to fog it. Barring that, I'll just pull the plugs and do it one cylinder at a time.

BTW, thanks to all you guys for your advice, photos measurements etc. For the record, it's pretty much impossible to pull one of these things off a trailer onto a cradle. I had so much tension on a come along that it started cracking the fiberglass around the two aft tow rings. The guy I bought it from had just put the boat on the trailer the night before, so the bunks were wet and soaped, and we had about a 5 degree downhill slope and she wouldn't budge. We ended up having to jack it, and roll the jacks inch by inch. It ended up taking 4 hours. If I had to do it again, I'd Jack it, support it, and then slide the cradle in. We just figured once we got it moving, it would go easy so we just kept jacking and inching. Oh well, it's on the cradle now, although it still needs to be moved back.

[86 century]

Pulling the raw water drive belt will work just fine as long as you don't run it very long.
I do this when I am somewhere I don't have access to water so I don't end up that guy on the ramp with a boat that will not start

[chris young]

Thanks, I kinda figured that would work

So here's my new baby

1139611397

[86 century]

That system is pretty cool.

My obsessive compulsive nature would force me to put a drop in the rear cross bar and some guides on the sides to make sure I didn't have a brain fart and rip all the running gear off.

[chris young]

Worry not, all shall be revealed! Actually, the rear crossbar will be both dropped and moved forward so it won't interfere with the running gear at all. It's current position is only as a brace for pulling the boat backwards. The final iteration of the railway will be with the aft 3 feet of the boat hanging off the back of the cradle. The boat is also sitting too high on the bunks, that was to make it a bit easier to match the trailer height with the cradle. I'm heading back down this weekend to move it about, and fog the motor. I'm dying to get it in the water for a spin, but the railway isn't finished, so alas not until spring. I'll post a bunch more photos for all who wish to feel good about how nice their boat looks compared to mine:p.

[86 century]

I wouldn't worry about the way she looks now 40 or so hours of wet sanding followed by a few laps with a buffer she will look good as new.

[chris young]

I was planning on starting with a pressure washer. Does anyone have any cautions regarding that? Other than it will peel the decals.

[wotan2525]

I was planning on starting with a pressure washer. Does anyone have any cautions regarding that? Other than it will peel the decals.

I don't think it will peel the decals and I don't think it will have much of an effect on your finish. You really need to wet-sand that thing. It will be a lot of work, but it will look brand new when you are done.

[86 century]

Power washing may peal the decals if they are at the point where they are failing anyway.

Wet sanding is really the only way to make her shine.
I ended up using 400grit on mine to cut the big stuff then worked the finish out from there.
There are some heavy cut compounds out there that will work wonders.

[DAFF]

Wash the boat with a mild bleach, dish soap combination. The bleach will whiten the yellowing gel coat and help remove the scum on the botom of the boat. Keep it from the interior and it is always better to use less bleach than more. 100ml bleach in the bottom of a pail followed by a heavy squirt dish soap and add water till filled. Caution this is not recomended for darker coloured boats.

[chris young]

So I just visited my boat, probably the last time until spring. I wanted to check it out in a bit of detail which I haven't had a chance to do yet.

Disappointed, I just discovered that the floors were solid because they were new, built on top of the old ones:( No surprise really, just disappointed.

I need to replace the blower hose from the bilge to the transom, is it anything special, or is it just basic stuff I can get at an autoparts store?

The drain hole (I'm asssuming what's what it is) that is just in front of the motor is open. Can anyone point me to the correct plug for that?

I removed the raw water pump because I wanted to put a new impleller in it, and run the motor to temp and fog it. I was told it had already been winterized last fall and never de winterized since. I wanted to run it and re fog it, which I did. But my question is this, how long does it take to clear the oil/smoke on a fogged motor? I ran it until the thermostat opened, and during that time it never stopped smoking, I'm hoping that's normal.

Also the rear of the dog house has a vent in it. According to another thread, we don't need one. I don't know if this is original or added by someone. Did the Rider come with a vent (on the rear face) of the dog house?

The battery is too big for the battery box, which looks rather small. Do you guys use small batteries, or do you modifiy the battery box to hold a bigger battery?

Any and all help is much appreciated.

Cheers

[Jetlink]

Hey Chris, pictures might help with regards to your questions about the battery and the dog house. As for the drain plug, I know another member had his drain plug stolen from his boat last winter. As for the fogging oil and smoke, mine usually clears out in a few minutes, though I am also running water to keep the engine cool in the spring when I do that.

Hope that helps.

[chris young]

I kind of figured the vent was original, as the teak matches the rest of the boat.

Thanks for the replies guys, I think I ran it for about 3 or 4 minutes, as I said, when I started getting exhaust out the raw water fitting, (thermostat had opened) I shut it down, so I don't know how long that was. For sure the motor had been given a drink of antifreeze by the marina that did the previous winterization, as I could smell it in the exhaust, and see it all over the cradle behind the exhaust, so that may have been the source of most of the smoke, (steam) and not so much the fogging oil. I guess I'll find out in the spring.

I guess I'll find out in the spring when I run it for real. I like the idea of just cutting a larger hole for the battery, for now I'll probably just tie it down somehow.

ngavdba, I never noticed your interior in your other photos before, is that all new vinyl or was it kept and cleaned that well? Looks really nice!

I haven't gotten a chance to start cleaning the boat yet, just wanted to give it a thorough once over and fog the motor.

[wotan2525]

http://i740.photobucket.com/albums/xx49/ngavdba/file-127.jpg


I can't believe that you have an "ugly" photo of your boat!! You must be human after all??

[Jetlink]

I can't believe that you have an "ugly" photo of your boat!! You must be human after all??

He used photoshop I bet to get that picture.

[Sdc77]

I can't believe that you have an "ugly" photo of your boat!! You must be human after all??


He used photoshop I bet to get that picture

:D :D :D

Sometimes I have difficulties to understand the subtilites of American's humour, but here it's cristal clear ;)

[chris young]

11594
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Just to keep balance, I'll post the occasional pick of my boat (same colour scheme interior) just so that people don't get the impression that this is how a 29 year old boat is supposed to look:)

[chris young]

If you spend enough time and money, you can make any 29 year old boat look new again.

True that.

I'd love my boat to look like yours, but for now, I'm going to run it for a summer as is (well not quite, I'll clean it all up and do whatever maintenance it should get) and then I'll have a better feel for what I'd like to do to it.

I am thinking about re doing the floors, but from everything I've read here, that always ends up with a full stringer job, and, frankly I live way too far away from the cottage to do all that work.