Whats the best way to remove the floor?

[jasun]

So I started my winter project of seeing why the boat weighs 4400 lbs.

well I got the carpet and the first floor up. Now I am down to the original floor and wonder how to take it up to get to the foam under it? I am not planning on doing a cap off restoration so what are my options?

Circular Saw at a low depth around the stringers?


http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/Johnson-20121015-00125-1.jpg

[wotan2525]

I just shivered. You're about to get to the worst job that I've ever done. That wet foam is a nightmare.

And yes.... just start cutting. Circular saw is probably the best. I didn't need to save my stringers so I went at it with an angle grinder, cut-off tool and sawzall.

I don't think those side to side 2x4 braces are stock, either. Edit: and now that I look at it, the ones that run front to back also look added on to support a soggy floor. Interesting!

[mr.jrc]

Removing the cap would be worth the effort... once you start removing the floor, you don't want to stop 1/2 way. I started out the same way, didn't think i needed to remove the cap, quickly came to the conclusion that this was the only way to do it right. Check out these pics of my cap rigged to the garage ceiling, and the amount of foam/flooring removed:
https://forum.supraboats.com/album.php?albumid=289
Wotan in right, get out the circular saw, set the depth to cut the plywood if you want to leave the stringers undamaged.

[Jetlink]

Not having done a restoration let alone a cap off restoration yet, I have to echo the suggestions to remove the cap and tackle this job. Why stop half way? If you're in there, might as well do it right the first time. Wotan, didn't you have issues from your first attempt at stringers and floor repair?

[jet]

Oh I wouldn't do that...oh to late. lol. Your all in now.

(just kidding)

[jasun]

I could put it all back together and close my eyes and pretend it never happened!

I am not doing this to try to repair the mounts or anything. From as much as I can tell, the middle stringers still look solid though the side ones have delaminated and those are the ones I would repair/replace. My motor mounts are still tight and not one of them turns.

The issue I have with doing the cap off at this point is I dont have the resources to do it with this late of notice. I dont have a big enough garage and my wife is already mad at the red neck garage door I had to put up because the boat is 3' longer then the garage.

it is about to get too cold to be able to glass..

When I do a full restoration, I want to rebuild the engine too...

I can come up with some more reasons why not to tackle this job yet... :)

When I bought the boat the floor was solid as a rock... well now I know why. When they put the new floor on, they put what looks like some type of tar paper over the old floor. The old floor is beyond soft.
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/Johnson-20121015-00126.jpg
And let me tell you, that foam holds a lot of water! Just from the back corner that I removed, there has to be 40-50 lbs of it.

Well wish me luck and when I come back and say I decided to take the cap off, you can all say "I Told you So!!!"

[csuggs]

If you're going to do it, do it right the first time. Though I don't know you, I feel certain that after you get into this you won't know where to stop and you won't want to come back to do it again later. If you have waterlogged foam, then your stringers ARE compromised. I wouldn't be surprised if the previous owner didn't put some type of resin in the motor mount holes since he obviously did so much other reinforcing to the floor. Don't fool yourself- it is worse than you think. Sorry to be the "bad guy".

[suprasam]

Damn dude good luck! Looking at those pictures makes my stomach hurt! I've never done a full floor restoration, so I can't give any advice but all I can say is good luck, grab a saw, dust mask and some beer. Oh and make sure you take some pictures along the way to post. I had to laugh at your post because I can imagine what my wife would do if I had to rig out garage for the boat. Lucky I have a removable tongue on my trailer, but if you have any interest....this is the next best thing for a trailer that wont fully fit into your garage and isn't crazy expensive. http://www.trailerpartsdepot.com/itemdesc.asp?ic=HDPB230101&utm_source=GoogleProducts&utm_medium=PriceEngine&utm_campaign=OneStopFeed&&gclid=CPG454HdhbMCFQTOnAodDnoARA
Good luck!

[jasun]

I am not going to admit it yet becuase I told myself I would not be doing a cap off, so I wont say the more I think about it the more I think everyone is correct in doing it. Those who have done that kind of restore, where did you keep your Cap? My time line would look something like take the Cap off, pulll the engine before the snow flies, All winter would be the tear out and in the spring redo the stringers when it gets warm enough to do the fiberglass work....

2 important questions... what does everyone use for the wood for the stringers and do you use Marine Grade Ply Wood or just treated and glassed?

@suprasam

Here is a visual for your enjoyment:
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/Johnson-20121016-00128-1.jpg

[suprasam]

Lol I love it, well it is in the back yard....my wife would have my ass also. I have over 5 acres and only a freakin double garage, a bit jealous partly because of the tarp. In the winter I get ticked my boat is in the garage and my truck is in the cold!

[TitanTn]

I unfortunately echo Clint. It's worse than you think and you need to do it correctly now, or you'll be back into it sooner than you think.

There's lots of opinions on what type of wood to use. I won't bias you other than to say don't use treated lumber. It's got moisture in it, and it typically twists as it dries out.

[sybrmike]

I just threw up in my mouth, awoke in a cold sweat from a terrible nightmare, and am frantically searching for the Prozac - oh wait, that's not my boat & I'm not rebuilding again! Congrats on the guts to start and condolences on what lies ahead. It's really not that bad, but formulate a good plan & keep at it since spring will be here before you know it.

My .02, like the others if you're ever gonna do it right - now's the time. Even if you just do some patchwork to the stringers and replace the floor, you won't be too anxious to tear back into it anytime soon. Also, mine was soft enough that the center walkthrough was sagging & the window wouldn't properly close & cap off is the only way to get up under that area. FWIW - some of the wettest parts of mine were up under the bow where the fresh air vents enter the bilge. Yes, a circular saw set at 1/2-5/8" depth works - cut around the perimeter and again into manageable sections. Lots of good material options (not PT for reasons TT mentioned). I used 3/4" exterior plywood - 2 layers for the inner stringers, 1 for the outers and cross bracing/bulkheads. 1/2" exterior ply glassed both sides for the floor.

[jasun]

Well a little update... I didnt have the energy to take pictures, but I got the old sawzall out and took it to the floor up to the engine... Parts were dry (Starboard).... but mostly it was wet (Port).... and by wet, I mean I got splashed when I was picking the foam out with a big pry bar... It was easy to take the floor out on that side because it was so wet it just kinda peeled out. I have taken out 3 bags so far. I will post pics when I stop crying.

I am going to try to do a time lapse from here on out. I couldn't find my hacked memory card or my camera mount last night but Ive got them for the next time.

wish me luck

[jasun]

I used 3/4" exterior plywood - 2 layers for the inner stringers, 1 for the outers and cross bracing/bulkheads. 1/2" exterior ply glassed both sides for the floor.

By exterior Plywood are you talking CDX plywood sheathing?

[sybrmike]

You don't want to go too cheap - CDX will have a lot of voids which can collect moisture and reduce strength. That's the benefit of marine ply - waterproof glue and no voids, but pricey. I used BC exterior grade as a compromise (plus I had some laying around) - same glue, but some voids.

[DAFF]

Pull the cap off outside. Then bring in the boat and trailer and pull the boat out from under the trailer. Place the cap on the trailer ouside untill you are done.

[jasun]

Like you haven't had enough peer pressure on this thread yet...cap off is the way to go. One and done.

Peer pressure is just an excuse people use to be victims of their poor decisions... I call all this sound advice! :D

The more I think about it, the more it seems like the right decision.

When you pull the engine, do you disconnect the tranny from the engine as well?

Also, what do you use as a reference point for where to measure where the motor mounts go?

[Jetlink]

Not sure on most of these points however, when you pull the prop shaft, there will most likely be a ring that is worn into the shaft where it passes through the cutlass on the strut, when you place the engine and trans back in the boat, push the prop shaft back in so that the wear ring matches up again and set your trans/engine combo off of that. I would also take the time to split the engine and trans while they are out of the boat and do any maintenance that might be required then.

[TitanTn]

You can also use the drain hole under the engine as a reference point for measuring.

[sybrmike]

The engine & trans lift out easy as an assembly, then you can decide to separate them if needed for overhaul.

Take lots of measurements once the driveline is out. I also made cardboard patterns perpendicular to the hull centerline that followed the contours of the engine mount area. Used Ben's method for locating the engine fore & aft during installation. There's quite a bit of adjustment available (side to side and vertical) in the mounts, but you want to get it close.

[wotan2525]

I aligned my engine to the prop shaft. This was after I had my drive shaft checked for straightness (ended up replacing), had my strut straightened and the bearings refreshed, and replaced the coupler. Figured the prop shaft was now the straightest thing in the boat, hung the engine from a beam in a friends shop and spend a couple of hours raising, lowering and adjusting engine mounts to get it perfect.

[jasun]

I am getting ready to pull the engine this next weekend and I finally got everything out. The only thing I could not figure out is the throttle... I took out the screws in it but it doesnt wanna seem to come out. Do you have to disconnect the throttle and transmission cable before removing the cap?

here is some progress.
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/IMG_0581_zps136ec132.jpg
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/IMG_0582_zps247920be.jpg

[jasun]

one more Question, is the cooler part of the Hull or cap??

[Blackntan90]

Not sure about the cooler, mine does not have one...but at least you can reach the workbench without getting out of the boat!!

[jasun]

I def did not build the building thinking I would have an 8' by 26' boat in there.... my building is 16x24... with 2 motorcycles and other stuff, it is pretty cramped except in the boat now!

[mr.jrc]

The cooler is part of the cap on a saltare (if it had a cooler option). Disconnect the throttle at the engine. Disconnect the steering cable at the rudder. Disconnect the transmission cable at the xmission. Leave everything connected at the helm. Remove the rub rail and drill out all the pop rivets, and you will also find some screws mixed in. There should also be some screws on inside of the boat, where the cap comes down to the floor, (behind the driver seat/in front of the rear seat), mine had 2 on each side, on the ends, you can probably see them where you have removed the flooring in the back... and the passenger seat has to come out too.

[jasun]

(behind the driver seat/in front of the rear seat), mine had 2 on each side,

I can see the screws when I look behind the panel where the throttle is, but I can't get that panel off.... is there a big secret to getting that last panel off
(the only one in this picture:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad38/jasunderland/IMG_0582_zps247920be.jpg

[TitanTn]

There should a few screws hidden in that red carpet. Tough to find sometimes.

[sybrmike]

I had to remove the throttle control & reach through the hole to access tee nuts from behind. A trick to getting the throttle out is to move the handle forward about half way so the mechanism arms behind the panel rotate in-line with the cables.

I think the later (~90) years had the ice chest molded with the top cap, but your ice chest looks to be similar to mine - removable from the top cap. Mine had plastic button caps covering screws that ran from the inside of the ice chest into the front and sides of the walk through. I also had aluminum angle brackets that bolted the front and sides of the top cap to the floor at the walk through (hidden by the ice chest). My cap was sagging pretty bad at the walk through (the center windshield wouldn't close right) since the structure below was so rotten - so even with the screws removed, the ice chest was pinched in pretty tight.