Ballast Tank

[IndyMatt]

My 2004 Sun Sport has what looks like a pre-formed (rigid) ballast tank that makes up the support for the rear seat. Being a SunSport... It didnt come with any pumps, fittings or contols etc for filling or emptying. When I remove the bow side vertical panel in the trunk, I can see two holes on the top of the tank. My question is.... how difficult would it be to convert this to an opperational ballast tank? What type of pumps do i need? Can I mount a fitting in my raw water pick up line near the through hull strainer for intake/drain? Any Ideas?? This may be the same tank used for the Launch SS; any pictures would be great!!

[Jon]

To convert it to a ballast tank by factory specs you will need the following: a water intake thru-hull scoop, brass L adaptor, manual shut off valvle, tubing from shutoff valve to a water strainer, solenoid valve, Pvc connectors, tubing from solenoid valve to your tank, tubing from your tank to a rule pump, tubing from the rule pump to a thru-hull fitting much like for your bilge, plus wiring to go from your solenoid and rule pump to go to a switch on your dash. It sounds like a lot but its actually pretty simple. I'm sure the guys at Skiers Choice will be able to tell your part numbers and any small pieces that I might have missed. The hardest thing will be putting another thru-hull scoop in the bottom of your boat and another to drain out the side. If you aren't afraid of fiberglass it shouldn't be a big deal.

[Jon]

A simple way to do it is to mount a reversable pump that has a long enought tube to throw over the side of the boat. Wire it to a 3 way switch and you can pump in and out with that.

[IndyMatt]

Thanks for the info.. What I actually thought about doing was after installing a two way pump and the three way switch, was attaching a brass 'T' in my raw water intake, inside the hull and near the through hull fitting. This is where I would connect the intake for the pump. I would probably run the drain line via a 'y' connection to the line going from my bildge pump to the through hull fitting (or just pump out the same way i pumped in). Doing this will eliminate the need for drilling through the hull or adding any additional through hull fittings. What I would like to find would be a schematic or blue print including part numbers or pictures. Im sure there are connections and pieces specifically designed for the tank already in my boat. ANY help would pe appreciated!!! Remember, its November so I am still in the preliminary phase of planning this!!

[IndyMatt]

Does anyone know the capacity of this tank (gallons)? Would most 12v (RV type) water pumps go in both directions if the 12v polarity was switched??

[silvtongdvl]

I would not use the intake for the engine. Its not worth the little bit of money and time to add another intake for the ballast system. If for any reason (mainly leaking) it starves your engine of the cooling water - not worth it. There is plenty of room to add the fitting near the v-drive. The factory system or even most systems employ bilge pumps. New intake - then shut off valve - then pump - then solinoid valve. This fills the ballast. A seperate smaller pump is attached to drain of the ballast. The hose from this pump goes to a thru hull port on the side. The switch is a typical rocker switch - center is off,up is fill, down is drain. Simple enough to wire.
When filling - if the pressure gets too great - it bypasses the drain pump and dumps out the side, this is also how you tell when its full. Another problem with a tank vs a sac is that you need a vent to let the air back in when draining.
I personally have replaced the sacs in my rear compartments and installed SS tanks.
Sounds like you have a winter project on your hands !!!!
I would suggest a trip to your local dealer to see first hand how they do it. It might give you some ideas!!!
~S~

[IndyMatt]

Yeah... like I said.. this is still very preliminary. I just figured since the tank is already there... if it were easy enough to install the secondaries it might be worth it. In regards to the intake; My thought was if I installed the pickup close to the raw water scoop, when the pump was running, the natural path of least resistance would be to pull water from the through hull rather than back and away from the cooling system. Remember... the motor (impeller) is working to draw water into the raw cooling system and when the boat is sitting in the water, there is positive pressure into the through hull scoop (Ie pull the lower hose off without the motor running and naturally you get a gush of water). This obviously is slightly unconvential and I would have to monitor flow and temperature very closely during inital setup. I would rather attempt this than start drilling holes in the boat; not that Im afraid to do so, I just want the ability to remove the system at a later time without leaving any tales behind. I would love to get this system set up as close to factory as possible... thats why I am trying to get someone to send me a parts list or blueprint of the factory setup. The tank is there... The ports are part of the tank (capped with red inserts). I just need the parts and connectors. Does the factory use a single two way pump? Or two (cheaper) one way pumps? How do they compare to aftermarket RV type 12v water pumps? Where are the pumps installed? The solenoid? How exactly is the tank vented? I 'E'ed' A. Cooper to see if he could be of assistance but have not heard anything as of yet. I still dont know the exact capacity of this tank. How much difference will this make? Is it even worth doing?

[IndyMatt]

I would love to go to my "local" dealer... but he is a true moron. The dealer I bought my boat from is 2+ hrs away so im counting on all you guys for some guidance here!! Thanks in advance!!

[silvtongdvl]

Ok heres a run down on how my system works.
There is a thru hull fitting on the opposite side of the v-drive from the water in take for the engine. Then a ball valve - they are either 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" in size. Then the 1100 gpm bilge pump. The hose then goes to a manifold - the new boats have a strainer on the beginning end. Then solinoid valves -mine has three because I have front and two rear tanks. The valves control the water flow to each tank. The hose from the sol. valve goes to the top fitting on the tank. You are now filling. With this type of system, if your pump fails, you can turn the sol. valve off manually and still fill your system. Of course this is also why the shut off valve is the first thing after the thru-hull - incase you develop a leak in the ballast system you can't stop and need to drive back to the ramp.
To drain - a short hose that leads to a smaller bilge pump - to the side thru - hull is connected to the bottom fitting of the tank.
Wiring the switch - there should be a common power connector in the center of the toggle switch. Push it one way - lets power go to the intake bilge pump and the sol.vlv. - back to center is off. Push it the other way and it goes to the drain bilge pump.
You will need to go thru the fuse box or a relay to protect the wiring.
Venting can be done with a third port on the tank or tee in a one way check valve at the top fitting. Position it so the flow is only in.
~S~

[IndyMatt]

Thanks for the info... A few questions though. You said you also had front tanks... im curious... if I only use this one tank is this install worth the time? Is the one tank going to make a difference? Im still not sure of the overall capacity, but its that standard rigid tank/ seat support that is in all 04 sun sports. Im still trying to get diagrams or pics of mounting locations, fitting etc... I didnt see an opening on the lower side of the tank... but I didnt really look either, I just saw the two on top... maybe one of those can be fitted with a vent/ overflow hose. The other Q... is the pump really 1100 GPM?? I am assuming that is a typo to be GPH... Ive not seen a pump that efficient yet. Thanks again.

[silvtongdvl]

Sorry - that was a typo. I work with pumps and other tank related stuff for work - I must have been in work mode this morning. Even still a 1100 gph will fill 1 - 60 gal & 2 - 30gal containers quick. I am not familar with the location of your tank. I have an 03 SSV which is the 22 ft wakeboard boat. I have a 600lb sac that is under the center playpen lift cushion and runs forward. On either of the engine - I have tanks. Each weights alittle over 400lbs with water in them.
I am little confused about which boat you have. Direct drive or v-drive, 21 ft or 22ft. Sunsport is more of a style rather than model. It only tells me that your boat didn't come with the ballast & tower unless it was purchased as an option.
~S~

[silvtongdvl]

Just making sure on the boat thing - I think you have the Launch DD. If so, I know people with that boat - that the tank in the back is the only one they fill. The wake is very nice like that. I also know others that use sacs in the walkway and on either side of the engine. The wake gets alot bigger. Same hull as the 21V.
~S~

I have the 2004 SunSport direct drive. I believe the specs on the length were 21'9". 2004 was the last year that Skiers Choice offered the SunSport in a direct drive. Skiers choice offers three hull types; The old comp which is now the LTS I think. The Launch and the SunSport. The different models are just features on the hull. The Launch SS was the sunsport with a rad a cage tower etc.. The gravity games edition is the Launch SS. My 04 is basiclly the 22ssV but in a direct drive model (same hull). Im not sure if this has changed but when I bought my boat, the Launch style of hull was not available with a walk through bow (just the Launch SS which was the sunsport hull) and I think the playpen with the basement gives you more room for bow ballast. If you look at any of the direct drive interiors, my tank makes up the support for the rear seat, so its the width of the inside of the boat, as deep as the horizontal and vertical parts of the back bench and about 8" to 10 inches tall. The fill points are accessable through the trunk, if you remove the vertical carpeted panel that makes up the bow side of the trunk. I just dont know the capicity and if the weight will add enough to the wake to make the system worth while. You said you work with the pumps & tanks... do you handle retail at all? Can you price me out a pump similar to what is being installed factory? Any other Ideas in regards to access if I dont want to add more through hull fittings?

[IndyMatt]

I have the 2004 SunSport direct drive. I believe the specs on the length were 21'9". 2004 was the last year that Skiers Choice offered the SunSport in a direct drive. Skiers choice offers three hull types; The old comp which is now the LTS I think. The Launch and the SunSport. The different models are just features on the hull. The Launch SS was the sunsport with a rad a cage tower etc.. The gravity games edition is the Launch SS. My 04 is basiclly the 22ssV but in a direct drive model (same hull). Im not sure if this has changed but when I bought my boat, the Launch style of hull was not available with a walk through bow (just the Launch SS which was the sunsport hull) and I think the playpen with the basement gives you more room for bow ballast. If you look at any of the direct drive interiors, my tank makes up the support for the rear seat, so its the width of the inside of the boat, as deep as the horizontal and vertical parts of the back bench and about 8" to 10 inches tall. The fill points are accessable through the trunk, if you remove the vertical carpeted panel that makes up the bow side of the trunk. I just dont know the capicity and if the weight will add enough to the wake to make the system worth while. You said you work with the pumps & tanks... do you handle retail at all? Can you price me out a pump similar to what is being installed factory? Any other Ideas in regards to access if I dont want to add more through hull fittings?

[silvtongdvl]

Matt,
Do you have the ski locker? - Not clear on the walk thru - Have one? Closed bow?
I don't have the pumps and parts you will need to plumb the ballast tank. I deal with industrial pumps & tanks. Most parts can be found at a marine store, with true plumbing parts at home depot or other hardware stores.
As far as the water intake is concerned - either put a tee on the existing one and run the pump (only when engine is off) to fill, use a fat sac pump, or add another intake.
Adding an intake lets you fill while driving (pump on or off) protects against staving cooling water to engine.
Tee will work - taking a chance - must use manual shut off to protect engine.
Fat sac pump will work - lots of hassel.
Pumps are bilge pumps that even Walmart carries.
As for local dealer - it doesn't have be even a supra dealer. You don't have to buy anything from them either - just look in the boat. Pretend to be buyer, maybe upgrading this year. Get some ideas - you don't have to go factory.

I put a bag system in a Malibu last year - he used different ideas from all the manufactures. We did put a thru hull intake in.
Engine = 8k
Thru hull fitting 30bucks - marine under the water line sealant = 15 bucks.
How can you not jusify putting in the intake fitting ???
If it was good to it that way - why didn't the manuf. do it?? Why don't any of them do it??

Check out the Supramoombariders web site. There is close up pictures of the pump,solinoid valves, system.

~S~

[IndyMatt]

Thanks for the info... Im going to look around a little. I have the walk through bow with the ski locker. I believe that the through hull fitting is the way to go... Its just a few things... Im not sure that this is going to be worth the time and effort with the one tank... I want to decide how its going to work before I start drilling holes in the boat... I might decide not to keep the system. I may just wait till next spring and independently fill the tank just to see how much additional displacement it creates. My hull is not as deep drafting as the Launch so i may be doing all this for little change. I have even thought of possibly fitting a male 3/8 inch brass fitting with a shut off valve and threading it into the midships hull drain... just a thought... its a bit cold out now and this planning is still on paper... So maybe some more thought for now.

[silvtongdvl]

If you are serious about wakeboarding - then it will be worth it. Plan on a sac in the locker. Just a small one though. That boat likes more weight in the rear and with the engine mid-ship, you don't need alot of weight up front.
If you decide to go for it - do it right. That way, if you decide to sell, the next guy will see the value in it too!
Also check out

www.gcwa.com

Thats my home - there are guys there with your boat that use that tank.

~S~

Thank you! You have been very helpful... but in a way your also slightly proving my point. Let me explain. I bought the boat because it served two purposes, first its a great ski boat... but it also had enough room to load the family in and take off all day to the sand bar etc... I am a beginner/novice wakeboarder (hopefully getting better) so im not at a level where Im doing flips and advanded tricks ( i just want the wake to do so) If and when I sell the boat... the value I think will be in keeping it as factory as possible & not adding a bunch of through hull fittings etc. Thats why I wanted somthing more removable with the appearance and functionality of a permenant install. Thats why I dont just have a hose in the ski locker that I can throw overboard (A.A.E) But now im hearing yeah... that tank will work pretty good... but you really want a sac in your ski locker too. It was not my intention to convert the boat to a wake board boat. I dont think I have the hull for an effevtive wake board boat. I think the deeper launch is better suited. I wanted to add just enough to use the tank already in my boat, but if its not going to make that much difference it may not be worth it.

As I said, thank you for the info.

[IndyMatt]

Thank you! You have been very helpful... but in a way your also slightly proving my point. Let me explain. I bought the boat because it served two purposes, first its a great ski boat... but it also had enough room to load the family in and take off all day to the sand bar etc... I am a beginner/novice wakeboarder (hopefully getting better) so im not at a level where Im doing flips and advanded tricks ( i just want the wake to do so) If and when I sell the boat... the value I think will be in keeping it as factory as possible & not adding a bunch of through hull fittings etc. Thats why I wanted somthing more removable with the appearance and functionality of a permenant install. Thats why I dont just have a hose in the ski locker that I can throw overboard (A.A.E) But now im hearing yeah... that tank will work pretty good... but you really want a sac in your ski locker too. It was not my intention to convert the boat to a wake board boat. I dont think I have the hull for an effevtive wake board boat. I think the deeper launch is better suited. I wanted to add just enough to use the tank already in my boat, but if its not going to make that much difference it may not be worth it.

As I said, thank you for the info.

[silvtongdvl]

Keep in mind that your hull and my 03 SSV have the same hull. The only difference is engine location. This is also true with the deep v launch you talked about and the 21V. They share the same hull with different engine locations.

Your boat was designed to be one of the best crossover boats (ski & wakeboard) Supra had to offer at the time. Plumbing that tank with near factory parts would not hurt your resale value - only increase it as there are many more people buying wakeboard type boats than ski. If effect you would have a larger sector looking at your boat. I can also tell you that your boat will need more rear weight than front, so just plumbing the tank would work.
As for the ski locker - don't do it - just put a fac sack in the walk way if you get the urge.

The better you get at wakeboarding and when you ride behind a 21V or SSV you will understand what I am saying. To be honest - learning behind a smaller wake is a good thing. In order to fly high, you will have to learn to egde properly. Riding with big fat wakes can make you lazy, but are better for doing progressive tricks.

My son learned to board behind our old glastron with a fat sack in the ski locker. He really flew behind it. Then he rode behind a real wakeboard boat - didn't cut back on the edging and flew so high he couldn't handle it. (years ago) Now its elephant this, 360,tantrum -ect ect.

Winter sucks - we moved from Texas this year and its too cold in ARK to ride. Nights have been below 30degs so we winterized the boat for the first time since we owned it. The last two winters we only stopped for DEC & JAN. even then it never got cold enough to winterize.
Good luck !!!
~S~