New Pirata owner and V drive convesion

[5akman]

Greetings,
Uship just delivered my Craigslist purchase yesterday, a neglected 1989 Pirata with a 454 with 320hrs from southern CA. The boat has seen saltwater as noted by the bottom paint, corrorded deck fittings and zincs/bonding wires to all under water fittings. The pylon and engine mount bolts seem very sound so I'm hopeful that a full stringer/floor job is not needed. Last evening I purchased a rebuilt BW 72C tranny and 1.5:1 BW direct connect v drive unit for the upcoming conversion. (have the current BW 72C for sale if anyone is interested). Immediate plans are for the V drive swap, under floor ballast tanks to either side of the new engine location, new interior with modified seating from stock, tower and a curved walk through windshield. I'd also like to re gelcoat but that's a bit further down on the list.

The wife is pissed as I sold the '92 Ski Brendella openbow in great shape for this project! Our 3 teenage wakeboarding sons are rooting for me to get this done by next summer so the pressure is on!

I had a boat building business for 5 yrs building ocean going composite multihull sail boats (ranged from 25'-45') and bought up every ski boat project I could find to keep the guys busy during times we were waiting for epoxy to cure. A severe epoxy allergy forced me out of business and I've now got 12yrs in as a high school wood/drafting teacher and 8 yrs as the school counselor at the continuation high school. Summers are spent in AK as a commercial salmon fishermen where one or more of my boys assist. I trust the Supra will be good therapy over the winter.....

Stay tuned!

Lance
www.alldrinsalmon.com
Chico CA/Kenai AK

[Jetlink]

Holy smokes!!! This just got really exciting... I can't wait for others to chime in like Haugy, he was talking a little crazy before about converting his current boat into a V-Drive. Good luck and it doesn't sound like there is any real pressure from the family on this project.

[Sdc77]

Very interresting project, I will follow it with big attention ! :)
Do you plan to keep the closed bow or plan to do an open bow conversion as whell ?

[5akman]

I'd like to eventually do an open bow conversion simply for more seating. I guess it will depend on whether or not my walk through curved windshield will fit decently. I'm not opposed to reconfiguring the deck profile at the windshield to deck interface if needed to make it work but that's not real high on the priority list at the moment. If I could have found a Saltare for cheap......

[5akman]

11539Here is the tranny package that I just bought off ebay. I went with the BW unit even tho the Walters is more commonly used in the V drive wakeboard boats. The Walters uses an internal u joint that has caused issues according to my reading whereas the BW uses bevel cut gears and appears to be pretty bullet proof. This unit is nice in that it can work with either RH or LH input and the prop then rotates the same direction.

I'm wondering if the torque of the BBC and then the 1.5 ratio gear will require that I step up to a 1 1/8" driveshaft? any thoughts?

[wotan2525]

The 1.5 gear ratio may prove to be challenging. I'm sure that you can prop to account for this but I wonder if they sell a set of gears that can convert that ratio down?

Welcome to the site and I can't wait to see what you do! Plenty of people have "threatened" a v-drive conversion, but we've yet to see one come together....

[5akman]

It will be a slow project, especially here during winter since I don't have a shop to work in (a three car garage filled with tools however :). I have just spent 1300.00 for the BW drive so I'm committed! There are other gearing options available but they appear to be over 2000.00 for a set from BW. I don't know if I can find some used ones in their 1.2:1 offering but if I find some and they're affordable I'll pick them up. Another option is to find someone who wants to trade their 1.2's for my 1.5's.

Looking through lots of info on 1.5 ratio here on the net, it apppears that a prop in the 13.5 x 14 or 16 is recommended for a v drive with ballast. If anyone runs across a Saltare deck, let me know. It would sure be easier than making mine an open bow!

[jasun]

I have to ask... did anyone from the A&E show Shipping Wars Deliver your boat?!

[5akman]

Not to my knowledge! I posted the haul and within about 2 hrs had about 10 quotes anywhere from 480.00-600.00 for the 550 mile one way haul. I picked a mid range bid with good feedback and turns out it was a gal! Unfortunently, her F250 tranny went out the day before the scheduled trip so she rented a Uhaul box truck and showed up on time. I figured 300.00 in diesel for my Dmax and then 1100 miles round trip. The payment of about 550.00 seemed like an easy check to write to NOT have to haul it myself.......

[DAFF]

Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new Pirata. It was on the market forever as I can remember it from when I was searching last fall. V drive it and keep you eyes peeled for a salty for free....

Good luck and cant wait for some progress.

[5akman]

I sure wish I knew it was on the market that long, I'd have offered a lot less $$$! It has some issues such as bottom paint, salt water corrosion on the deck fittings such as the cleats and the upholstery is brittle. Surprisingly, the stringers and floor appears to be fine. I'll know more when I pull the engine out in the next few weeks to add the v drive pan (just showed up today) and the v drive unit.

[haugy]

Good luck man, I know we'll all be watching this thread in anticipation.

Since you are a seasoned boat builder you might have some creative tricks around some of the issues I discovered when I built out my design. Rudder brackets too tall and hitting oil pan, angles for clearance of the air intake, etc. Fun stuff like that.

I am looking for a Saltare to do this to as well. I can't carve up my girl, she's just in too good of shape. This should be a good build. And please tell me you are going to get rid of the bottom paint. :)

[5akman]

There was really nothing redeeming about this boat with the bottom paint, top side corrosion (altho the engine/trans are remarkable free of rust considering the environment), rusty trailer etc. It was however, the big, deep hull that I wanted to start with for this project at a price point that I thought was fair. Had I seen it in person, I'd have offered at least 500.00 less due to the trailer issues. Matter of fact, I can't believe the gal hauling the boat 550 miles made it with the front left trailer tire cocked in at about a 80 degree angle! If it was me, I wouldn't have towed it a mile before replacing the bearings on that side.

I have thought of the rudder issue. Comparing the dims of the BW unit to the other vdrives, it appears that it is much taller overall. I'm hoping that this will allow the engine to sit higher on the stringers to provide clearance. Adding to this potential problem is that I have bought and plan to install your typical full depth, full length v drive oil pan which means the area on a normal engine where the pan is the shallowest (and is now directly above the rudder port), is now full depth. I don't know yet how much room I have aft of the port in case I need to move the rudder aft. I believe that if I had to do this, I could add a plate to the transom to "extend" the length of the hull, keeping the rudder "in the water".

How far did you get into your design? Had you bought all the components? Did you bail due to the above issues? What v drive were you planning on using?

I guess another option is to go with a traditional remote mount vdrive box such as a Casale. This way you could put the engine fwd enough to clear the rudder box. On most go fast vdrives, they are 30-36" fwd of the transom. This then however, burns up a lot of the interior room that I was seeking. And then there's all the hassle of new shaft log and strut locations......

[haugy]

I was spec'ing out a BW like yours. The rudder itself isn't as much of a problem, it's the primary bracket that holds the cable in place. If you have any welding/fab skills I think you can easily get around it. But it's something I noticed would put the engine about 5-6" higher than I had planned. With the BW on the back of my tranny my design has the rear seats sitting over the V-drive. That would allow easy access and making the backrest of the rear bench removable to access the tranny and cooling system (filter, lines, etc). Then the engine would be about 6-8" from the stern of the boat. That should make your oil pan clear the rudder, but not the rudder cable bracket. I would avoid any design that requires you to relocate the shaft log and strut. I know you can handle that ( I can't), but I think that will be more of a headache than it's worth. Plus you're losing more room in the interior.

You'll see when you get in there. My other concern is the hull depth. The depth where the 454 is now is much deeper than the hull depth at the stern. My worry was the engine height. But again, you're a builder, you'll see the solution if it doesn't clear. The top hatch can be made with recesses to allow space, but still be strong. Your rear hatch should sit below the stainless handrail currently. But I've seen some remade hatches that actually had the rear hatch cushion up above the handrail by an inch or so. And it looks perfectly fine, so you've got some room to add a couple of inches on the top to your top hatch.

How are you going to do your fuel cell? I thought about a bow cell, but it would constantly be changing with fuel consumption. Seeing a post about a 24SSV on here and their plastic composite fuel cell in the center keel gave me my idea. I could get a fuel cell for that boat, and build around it. Then run the hoses from the current fill/overflow point and be good to go. And it would center the weight. This would allow me to add adjustable ballast to the bow to compensate for the 685lbs you just put on the stern. Plus the 85lb BW v-drive.

Also, start considering an electronic trim plate. The newer Supra's have them, and a few have converted theirs on the Saltares. I think with this design you will regret not being able to easily adjust that plate to balance the boat out with it's new weight displacement.

The reason I stopped was I have a very nice Saltare now, and not only that, but it has some very cool personal history to it. I am a die-hard fan of keeping the Supra's stock. But I'm also an intense customizer. If I can customize something to a level never done before, but still look stock, mission accomplished. But I couldn't cut up a good boat. So like you, I am looking for a dead Saltare. One that I would have to gut anyways, might as well build it up awesome.

As soon as I do, my V-drive plan is back in the works.

Please keep taking pictures, and I mean of everything. In here there are some very creative engineers, fabricators, and people who aren't who many times take the easiest route which works out so much better most of the time. Plus we'd all love to see it in progression.

[5akman]

I was figuring the engine would sit higher than the gunnels. I envisioned a "domed" one piece engine lid/aft deck or a raised center section like some of the jet boat/vdrive guys do. I would like one big flat surface if possible just for lounging around on but don't know if it can be done.

I was looking into a few fuel cell options. One was some small tanks on either side of the engine up against the transom. Using a balance tube and common fuel supply from each tank to a "Tee" it would draw the same. This is not so popular with recreational boats but most all of our commercial gillneters in AK use multiple tanks with a common draw. The other options are tanks under the gunnels but I have not yet explored how much room there is between the hull side and inside fiberglass liner. The last option is a belly tank. Since I'm removing the ski pylon, there is room for a long belly tank. I was also wanting an underfloor ski locker so I'm not sure what my ideal is going to be!

I had a line on some used Bennett trim tabs for 250.00 but they got sold before I got to them. I'll be looking for something either air or hyd with most likely a single plate in the stock location. I don't know if having two tabs would assist in the creation of a good surfing wake?

I was going to do as you said with the rear bench base sitting overtop of the v drive. Pop the entire back seat out and engine cover off, and the world is at your fingers!

I had also thought of tearing up the floor outboard of the engine stringers on either side of the engine. Then building a box up about 10" taller than the current floor level and extending up under the rear seat (center section of rear seat base gives access to vdrive, outboard areas are incorporated into balllast). I was considering using this area as a ballast tanks on each side. I haven't gone far enough to calculate volume so it may not be worth it. Any thoughts?

[5akman]

Well, the project has taken a turn for the worse. I purchased the v drive off of ebay back in mid Nov. I kept asking where it was and got lots of excuses on why it hadn't been shipped. He finally got it shipped out and it arrived via freight line COD! I had paid 200.00 within the ebay auction for shipping and then an extra 100.00 to get it from FL to CA that I paid via Paypal. I immediately opened a case with ebay and his PP funds were frozen. He stated at least twice a day that he'd pay for the shipping with his credit card over the phone. Never happened. He then contacted me to say that since his PP funds were frozen due to my open case, that he had no way of paying shipping unless I closed the case. I foolishly did that and still no payment. He then went on about 3-5 days about paying via Western Union, this never happened either. I was now able to go back through ebay and PP to get refunded in full! What a Christmas present as I was out 1300.00! Anyway, the tranny sits here in town awaiting the 300.00+ payment to release it. Since he shipped it COD, I have the ultimate control here as it does not get shipped back until I sign off on it!

Lesson learned? Check the feedback of all sellers. His was questionable but he looked like a marine parts dealer so I felt ok. He just got more neg feedback a few days ago and I asked ebay to shut him down.

Anyway, I'm now shopping for another v drive tranny or I'll just have to stick to the stock engine configuration. Anyone have any leads?

[Ptownkid]

Yeah, as far as PP cases go...don't ever close them until a satisfactory resolution is reached. There's no way that the claim had any effect on his ability to make a payment out in the real world. The only thing PP does is freeze the funds in his PP account, they can't touch his CC or bank account. Pretty sure the shipping company probably does not take PP as a form of payment.

I wouldn't neccesarily say that he is trying to rip you off outright...he did actually send the tranny right? He's just probably already spent the money he SHOULD have used for xmas gifts and is now in a bind. I would venture to guess that anyone trying to rip someone off would NOT ship something...

Is it possible that he can still remedy the situation? As far as I can tell, you paid $300 in shipping fees so at the moment he is going to have to pay at least $600 to get his tranny back. One would think that he's going to pony up the $300 at some point in order to get $1000.

[5akman]

The reason I said he was ripping me off was because of the two weeks or so of "Yea Lance, I'll get that taken care of today" and then another lie the next day and never a payment made.... He'll need to spend 650.00 to get it back to FL according to what the shipping company told me.

[Ptownkid]

I feel for you man...had my share of bad experiences and false promises with online transactions. Is there any chance of it working out still?

[5akman]

I've got a rating of over 800 with 100% feedback, he now has a 100 rating with 93% feedback so I've been lucky so far! After dealing with this guy, I have real concern on whether or not the unit is truly factory rebuilt with only 75hrs of run time on it. I believe I'll keep looking and if I don't find something by spring, I'll just run it with the original running gear...

[Ptownkid]

That's a very good point...if he's showing himself to be untrustworthy who knows what details he fudged or lied about with regards to the actual item. Good luck!

[wotan2525]

Doesn't sound like this deadbeat is going to be paying for the return freight. I'd contact the shipper and find out when they would consider the tranny that they have "abandoned." Once it is -- you should be able to pick it up from them for the remaining cost of shipping.

[5akman]

Just talked to the shipping company. I will receive a certified letter where I "release" the shipment. The seller now gets to pay 660.00 to ship back from CA to FL. If he doesn't pay, then it goes into storage and they will eventually sell it as suplus stock for back storage fees. I told the gal on the phone to let me know when that happens and I'll buy it back.

I'm now looking at a Walter unit. Any thoughts.....

[beat taco]

Hey, I saw that Walters unit too. I took a pic of the tag on the one in my boat. Not sure if it will help you. As far as the unit goes mine has over 1,000 trouble free hours on it. Water had gotten in mine from the previous owners neglect and I was able to get it out after numerous fluid changes with no issues.
11688

[5akman]

Thanks for the info on the Walters. I was on vacation for 10 days so I believe I've missed it but will continue to look around. What are the "potential" issues with the Walters?

[villain]

its been a few months, any updates?

[5akman]

No updates. I had some big boat changes in my life recently and the Supra has been put on the back burner. I live in CA and commercial fish in AK. I had a shore based fishery called "set netting" that I participated in the last 8 yrs. Early spring we sold this business and bought a 40' gill net boat. I flew up to AK over my Easter break for 10 days to work on it. It now has a new 435hp Cat engine/tranny and two new 165 gal alum fuel tanks. I head up this next weekend to spend 3 weeks plumbing the engine, installing all new hydraulics, elect, instruments etc. Our boat was chose to be on the new National Geographic reality show called "Alaska Fish Wars". They ran 3 episodes last Feb and are filming 6 episodes this summer. Since I'm the "new" guy, they are having a camera man on board to catch the action and mistakes! Like "Fishing Vessel Night Hawk" on FB where I'll be posting updates throughout the summer.

As soon as I return home in early Aug, its back to the Supra. Right now my 3 teenage boys are really PISSED as I sold the perfectly functional Ski Brendella to buy the project Supra! Oh well.

Lance
www.alldrinsalmon.com

[DAFF]

Sounds like a great time to me. Nothing more fun than installing new stuff and trouble shooting for the worst case scenario from the harbour. Put a small Supra wave logo on a interior window of the wheel house for all us. For I am sure I'm not the only one wishing I was in the great north next to you. Have a great fishing season and we will be waiting for your return with some pics. !!

[5akman]

Great idea, where do I get the Wave decal? If anyone wants to wake surf, it throws a heck of a wake, especially with 15,000lbs of salmon on board. Bring the suit,tho. Inlet temps are right around 50-52 degrees!