Adjusting the trailer for a better fit

[TitanTn]

I'm going to rebuild my trailer this winter/spring. Rewire, lights, sand, paint, carpet, etc. I have a question about adjusting the trailer.

The bow sits very heavily on the bow roller. So hard, that no matter how loose the pin in the roller is, it won't roll. It's rough on the bow, and Donny just fixed all the bow issues so I'd like to keep it nice.

The "V" guide about 3 feet back from the bow stop does not touch the boat at all. Is this for guiding onto the trailer only, or can it support some of the boat weight? I'm wondering about raising the "V" to support a little of the boat and take some weight off the bow stop.

Thoughts? Other suggestions? You can see the "V" in the background of the image.

http://unumemarketing.com/boat/bow_stop.jpg

[Jetlink]

Obviously you and I have different hull designs and different trailer set ups but that small support bunk does not look like it is really doing much for you. I would be inclined to look at the main support bunks seeing as how that is what supports the bulk of the weight. If you bias the front a little higher than the rear of the bunks that might be a good start. I know on mine that those two front bunks mainly aid in getting the bow lined up for my bar that I have instead of the winch. I am on the road and don't have the pic handy Rob but I can post a pic or send you what I am talking about tomorrow.

[supraaddict]

I raised all of my front bunks with 1" plates for the same reason:
http://i.imgur.com/uWlhj.jpg

[TitanTn]

Thanks for the input guys. I just wasn't sure about the purpose of the "V" thing, and I would assume it's just for guiding, but I don't think it even does that when I'm loading. I'm thinking the answer might be both raising the front of the bunks AND raising the "V." It's a decent distance from the bunks to the bow stop, so having at least some slight support from the "V" may be a good thing.

[suprasam]

I did the same as SupraAddict, I raised the front and middle portions of my bunks about 3/4 of an inch and it took so much weight of the bow roller. If I'm not mistaking the bunks are designed to carry a majority of the weight so your bow adds help but not carry the actual load. If you think about it....majority of the weight is always suppose to be over the axle(s) for correct trailer carrying weight.

[haugy]

Titan, on my old Mariah trailer which was an MC trailer to start it did the same thing. The bow rise never even touched the hull. That V (bow riser) is designed to lift your bow as it glides into the trailer and ensure it contacts the roller at the right height, as well as it serves as a speed break/bump stop. It is designed to hold most of the bow weight, not the roller. So you want the load on it, more than the roller. When I redid mine, my boat barely rested on the roller, only enough to have solid contact and provide an additional stopper to prevent forward movement.

What I did was to cut it off right at the base, where it meets the trailer. I used a cutoff wheel on a grinder for a clean even cut versus the plasma cutter. Then I used a jack on the bow eye, or a cherry picker would work to lift the bow of the boat up enough to be on the roller, but without so much weight. Then place the cut off bow riser further back on the trailer until you are literally pressing it hard against the boat for a good fit. Mark that spot. Then add 1/2 an inch further back. Weld your bow riser into place there, and you should be good to go.

If you don't have any room to move it back. Do what I did and just add a longer piece of 4x4 (or whatever dimension) channel to your V on the bow riser. See pics below


Here you can see the bow doesn't touch the bow riser at all. It was a bitch putting this thing on the trailer.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/Boat%20pics/Final1.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/Boat%20pics/P1040858.jpg

As you can see here, I had no where to scoot the riser back, so I went with taller channel (the H2 is not mine, don't hate.)

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/Boat%20pics/P1040868.jpg

Here is the finished result. Sorry it's so far away, all my close shots are on the other side, and the spare tire blocks the riser. But you can see it's taller now. Man does that make for safer and easier loading.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/Boat%20pics/P1050902.jpg

[sybrmike]

My Salt sits on a Randall's trailer - the funky one with no bow roller. All the bow weight is supported on the Vee, with a separate locating rod that clips to the bow eye, so I agree with adjusting/moving the Vee so that the roller serves mainly as a bump stop.

[wotan2525]

Mine barely even kisses the roller. If we pull it out with the boat 2-3" further back, it's actually just hovering above the roller. A few more cranks and it comes forward but I dont think it actually puts any weight on it.

[TitanTn]

Thanks guys. That was the confirmation I was looking for. It seemed to me that the bow riser (thanks for the term Haugy) should be supporting some of the weight.

[csuggs]

The bow stop roller should be positioned so that when the boat is loaded all the way on the trailer, the bow ring pulls up right underneath the roller, resulting in a "stop" for the boat. I also modified my v-bunks by extending them aft-ward to assist in guiding the boat onto the trailer, and also raising them upward to assist with support.

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/csuggs/F5740CB8-EFF5-4148-B627-093B84242232-4185-000005B33033ED72.jpg

[TitanTn]

Thanks for that pic Clint. It's easy to see that the roller is strictly a stop and isn't supporting weight.

[pap]

I'm glad to see this thread - my 2009 21V sits so hard on the roller that it's damaging the gelcoat and if I look at the front bunks the boat isn't even sitting on them at the front of the trailer.

I don't think supra did a good job fitting the trailer to this boat. I've read elsewhere that people had the front winch post area cut lower, but I was very leary of doing anything for safety reasons.

For those that added space under the carpet/bunks - it looked like you just put a spacer at the screw/bolt site - how is the rest of the bunk supported and what keeps it from cracking?

I really want to fix my trailer, but safety first!

I have to winch it SO hard and it just grinds when it goes over top and sits HARD on that roller.

[supraaddict]

I was told by boatmate to take the old lag bolt out, and when I put the "New Longer" lag bolt in, I made sure it was started by hand a few threads before I tightened it. Make sure you do not tighten the bolts too tight as it will strip out the wood and you will have to replace the bunk. As far as cracking, I have had no issues.

Hope this helps

[chris young]

I'm not sure if this will help or not, but, while I did all the messing around to build the bunk for my railway and transfer my Rider to it from the trailer I discovered that with the shape of my hull and straight bunks, nearly all the weight of the boat will rest pretty much right at the engine. Very little weight is carried anywhere else. I'm planning on adjusting it.

I know adjusting the bunk heights at various point is a good solution, but double bunks would be better, that's just a lot more work. The other thing to consider is that your bow roller is too high. Just lowering it a bit might be helpful as well. Just a suggestion.

[haugy]

For those that added space under the carpet/bunks - it looked like you just put a spacer at the screw/bolt site - how is the rest of the bunk supported and what keeps it from cracking?


Okay to first answer your cracking question. If you put spacers under all the bunk supports, OR gradually increase the spacer thickness as you move forward, the wood won't crack. Those bunk supports are set to hold the boat at those points. My last boat, I did a bunk lift because the keel roller was touching. I increased the height by 3/4" at each bunk support. I used steel pucks I made and drilled holes into. I didn't use lag bolts, I just used carriage bolts that were recessed into the wood and the bolt came through the wood, through the steel spacer and then the bunk support, and then used a nut with lock washers to hold it in place. All hardware was stainless steel.

Something that you mentioned is loading it, you have to crank the heck out of it to get it up on the roller. How far back are you putting the boat in? When my trailer is in the water, you can only see the tips of the forward most bunk. The boat doesn't even make contact with the trailer until it's 3/4 of the way up it already. The the bow bunks slow the boat and help center it. The bow riser then makes sure the bow is up. Then I get my winch and only have to winch at most, about a foot. But since most of the boat is still free floating it goes up with some effort, but not hard. Now the boat is centered on the bow riser, and the bow bunks. When I pull out slowly, the back end settles in line gently on the trailer.

I had major issues with my last trailer and the roller, so I feel your pain. Can you take any pictures of your trailer at the bow section? That would really help us visualize what you are encountering.

[pap]

Boat is in storage right now, so no pics available right now :(

However I've found if I back the trailer in enough to not have to crank the crap out of it, then when the boat comes forward the bow is too low and actually hits the roller at the tip of the bow or below. So I have to pull out a bit to change the angle of the boat so it will ride "up" enough to go on top of roller.

[TitanTn]

Boat is in storage right now, so no pics available right now :(

However I've found if I back the trailer in enough to not have to crank the crap out of it, then when the boat comes forward the bow is too low and actually hits the roller at the tip of the bow or below. So I have to pull out a bit to change the angle of the boat so it will ride "up" enough to go on top of roller.

I know what you mean. This is why I'm going to slightly lift my bunks and the bow rise to help bring the nose OVER the bow stop.

[crystal waters]

My trailer was custom made for the boat at the request of the Supra Dealer at the time.
Not a boatmate! They used a well known local trailer manufacturer.
My nose roller is simply a stop that I snug the boat tightly against.
The "V" bunks support the weight on the front of the boat- no question.
The main bunks were lengthened compared to my other supra and boatmate trailer, such that the bunks extend further forward on the
hull to the point where the rise begins and they are of no further benefit.
By appearance the boat seems to have its weight well distibuted on the trailer and has presented me with no issues what so ever.11770

[Jetlink]

I guess I'm just glad I don't have a bow stop issue because my trailer doesn't have a bow stop.

[TitanTn]

11770

Beautiful boat. Why are we just now seeing this pic? Keep them coming!

[haugy]

Boat is in storage right now, so no pics available right now :(

However I've found if I back the trailer in enough to not have to crank the crap out of it, then when the boat comes forward the bow is too low and actually hits the roller at the tip of the bow or below. So I have to pull out a bit to change the angle of the boat so it will ride "up" enough to go on top of roller.

This thread covers the same issues you are having. I had the same problem with my old trailer, and I solved it by fixing the bow riser. I used to have to do the same thing with my trailer as you. I'd have to back it in just right. Enough to be able to pull it up, and still get the nose up. I used to have to power onto the trailer to get it up there. I hated doing that. And if I got a real deep ramp, it was a pain in the ass. I'd look at your bow riser. It's there to get the nose up, and to provide a good support for the nose. But not to hold the weight of the boat. That's why sometimes you have to lift the bunks as well.

[crystal waters]

Beautiful boat. Why are we just now seeing this pic? Keep them coming!

thx---had it since '92! Simply love this boat for all it offers.I am a "classic old school " when it comes to SUPRA11779

[pap]

where does one get aluminum or stainless steel spacers for this job? I would have no idea where to get something like that? Also, what are the chances that I back out the lag bolts (I assume that's what they are) and find rot in the wood? I assume it's wood under the carpet.

I don't think I'm up to the bolt from the top idea because I'd have to completely disassemble the whole thing including carpet and most likely I'll have to do this at the lake since obviously the boat can't be on the trailer at the time :)

I must say I'm not at ALL impressed with either boat mate or Supra for providing a trailer for this very expensive boat that doesn't work correctly.

[supraaddict]

^^ I had my spacers made at a machine shop. They are very easy to make. Just an aluminum block, mine is 1" thick with two holes in it. Basically it is the exact same size as the trailers Bunk mounts. I made a template out of cardboard and had the holes drilled just a little bit oversize for some wiggle room when mounting them under the bunks.

As far as installation goes, I raised mine at the lake with the boat off the trailer. Just took a drill with a socket adapter and the correct size socket as well as a ratchet. I just took the old lag bolts out, put the new spacers under the bunks and started the new lag bolts with a drill until I got close to the mount and tightened the rest of the way with the ratchet making sure not to strip them out.

Whole process only took about 10 minutes. As far as rot goes, I would think you could just peel back some carpet to check for rot, My bunk carpet was held on by staples. I actually had to re-staple most of my bunk carpet. (Boatmate does a horrible job from the factory on their bunk carpeting IMO).

Hope this helps!

[pap]

Thanks so much for your replies. So you made the template by tracing under the boat while boat in place? How do you know what size hole? Our lake is 45 min from the house and so it's a big hassle to make multiple trips to get this done.

Did you make all the bunk spacers the same size or did you "ramp" them up from the back?

Why are there two holes? (again, my boat in storage right now so maybe these questions obvious, but I've got winter fever and want to get this planned out :)

[supraaddict]

Yes, I traced the template out while the boat was on the trailer. Using cardboard I just pressed hard against the lag bolt heads to show me where the center would be. All the bunk mounts on my trailer were the same spacing between the bolt holes. All bunk spacers are the same size. I had 6 made total. The two front bunks have spacers on the front and the rear. The rear bunks have them on the front two mounts toward the front of the trailer that sit next to the back of the front mounts. In order to find out what size hole to drill in the spacers, I just removed one lag bolt from the back of the front bunks and took it to the machine shop for them to size the holes.

I hope this all makes sense. if not I can make an illustration of the bunks that I put spacers under. I'm not familiar with your trailer but I'm sure it's close to the same as mine.

[NorCalPR]

I'll be reworking my trailer before the summer hits. It's terrible. I have no bow riser for my 98 comp (Boatmate trailer) and the nose ALWAYS wants to go under the boat buddy. I'll also be removing that.

We started by dunking the snot out of the trailer. Didn't help. Pulled the trailer out till the front of the bunks were out of the water. Would hit at a moderate speed. Then as the driver backed the trailer down, the boat was left in gear to help get up to the block.

It still wants to dive under the block. So frustrating as it took out a chunk of gelcoat already. Was not a cheap fix!


Question: When you guys are coming into your trailers, those with V blocks in the front, is the keel hitting it before the hose gets to the block at the winch?

[TitanTn]

Question: When you guys are coming into your trailers, those with V blocks in the front, is the keel hitting it before the hose gets to the block at the winch?

This is a good question and something I've wondered too. I don't think mine hits ever. I think I do roll up on the keel roller for a moment, but I'm not sure that my bow riser is doing anything. I'm planning on adjusting it a little this spring, but I'm also concerned that if too much weight is placed on it, there will be scuffs/burns in the gelcoat.

[haugy]

Question: When you guys are coming into your trailers, those with V blocks in the front, is the keel hitting it before the hose gets to the block at the winch?

Yes, it is supposed to hit the bow riser (V block) before you get to the bow roller. The job of the bow riser is to not only lift the bow, but to center it as well. It also provides a nice speed brake before approaching the roller. With a proper trailer setup and loading, the boat should glide up the bow riser till it almost stops right at the roller. Allowing you to push gently forward against the roller, and then hook up and go. The bow roller is not to support the weight of the bow. It is to provide a rest place for the bow eye and hook to secure against tightly.

Another reason you see the old Supra trailers and Nautique trailers had the bow poles. They were used in place of the bow roller. They provided a good stopping point that was easy to line up on. But those trailers still had a bow riser to help hold the weight of the bow.

[TitanTn]

That's a great, visual description Haugy. Thanks.

[NorCalPR]

I know of a couple trailers with the front bow poles, that don't have the V block.

I guess I should also look and see if the boat should be raised from the trailer, especially the front section of the bunks. I can't remember if the bunks are adjustable on the trailer, maybe the pads have worked themselves down.

[haugy]

I know of a couple trailers with the front bow poles, that don't have the V block.

Absolutely. My post wasn't about all trailers, just most of the common Supra trailers, but you need to look at the boats on the trailer. Older Nautiques, MC ProStar 190s sometimes don't have a bow riser. Because of their short size they can just use the bunks to support them. Some trailers have bow bunks in place of the bow riser.

Can you post a picture of your trailer with the boat on it?

[NorCalPR]

Not the best pictures, but all I have at this moment. Notice the picture that in the closer shot of the bow, there's a ton of weight on that boatbuddy. The boat also seems to sit pretty low on the trailer.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/NorCalPR/1D16B793-B6EA-43E6-851C-FF4B842B34DB-306-00000007DF415940_zpsbdbc1de1.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/NorCalPR/7E6E5F46-017C-4311-8AEE-F4646E11ACFB-306-00000007F7094971_zpsc344a86f.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/NorCalPR/D7889CF6-0239-4351-B12D-108AFB45B69C-306-000000080807D92D_zps34490653.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/NorCalPR/8A5238C0-A876-4D91-955D-D810A6393DF0-306-0000000821254C82_zps33af15b2.jpg

[beat taco]

Now I know why you're norcalpr! Nice taco.
I have a trailer with no front bunks either. I noticed at the boat ramp guys with the same boat as me but a couple years newer had front bunks and no issues getting the bow to raise. I was going to weld some up but then I started putting my rear tires of the truck 6" deep and never had another issue, it was finally low enough to float right over the top of the buddy. Worked on all ramps too. But if not the front bunks would be on the trailer!
Anyways I always recognized your handle but thought it was just a coincidence.

[haugy]

Okay, thanks for the pics.

Your boat is short enough that on that tandem axle trailer, most of your weight is right over that front axle. Since it's a comp, you have hardly any weight in the bow. Like I mentioned earlier, if your trailer is long enough with long enough bunks you may not have a bow riser. Looking at other mid 90's comps, their trailers are just like yours.

Now to fix your loading and make it easier. You could do a gradual bunk lift. It looks like you have 4 main bunk mounting points. Start at say 1.50" at the front bunk mount, go to 1.25" at the second, 1.00" at the third, and .75" at the back. That will help raise your bow a bit. I'm not sure how close it is to going over or under the boat buddy, you can decide how much you want to lift the nose. Don't go over 2" or you will start to shear bolts.

Your trailer is tricky. I see your dilemma now. Not enough room to put a bow riser, and even with the low slope and rise of your bow, the bow would barely rise when it did hit it.

I'd try a bunk lift first. Swap out the boat buddy to a roller and see how that works. If you have to you can slightly, pay attention, slightly, :D cut and drill a lower mounting point for the boat buddy. But with your winch where it is, you can't move it much and still get the securing leverage.

That's a tough one. I'm trying to think of ways to modify it without sacrificing performance or safety, but there aren't many choices.

[NorCalPR]

I think what I will do is throw a cherry picker on the bow and lift to support the nose, and lower the trailer till the weight is off of the boat buddy. Then see how much I need to lift.

[haugy]

I think what I will do is throw a cherry picker on the bow and lift to support the nose, and lower the trailer till the weight is off of the boat buddy. Then see how much I need to lift.

EDIT: First switch to a roller if that's what your going to do. You'd be surprised how that might help your clearance alone. Then you can decide to lift your bunks.


Actually if I were you, I'd put it in at your most popular spot, bring the boat in so it's right up to the boat buddy. If it's under it then measure the distance from the bottom of the hull to the trailer bunks at the front. Then add the distance needed to get above the boat buddy as well. If the boat is on the bunks, then just take the distance needed to get the nose slightly above the boat buddy. Remember you just want to get the nose over it enough to drive up on the roller. If you go too high, then the bow eye will also be over the roller. Which isn't bad, but can make your winch load tricky.

[NorCalPR]

I first have to solve the issue. The roller is the same height as the boat buddy, and currently the nose wants to go under as the nose is a good 1" or 2" lower.

For me to get the nose up and above, I either need to dunk the snot out of the trailer (and my truck) or when I get close to the boat buddy, lift the nose above it while winching to get it up and over. A roller won't solve the issue, the nos will still be Lower than the roller to begin with

[haugy]

Sounds like you have a plan. Yeah I wasn't sure how close we were talking. Take pics with your process.

[NorCalPR]

Fixed:

I shimmed the bumps with 3/4" plywood. The bunks are aged, so I'll end up replacing them next year anyways, and will do nice aluminum spacers. For now it works. I also sprayed the bunks with some pledge to make it easier to drive up.

The bolt that holds the boat buddy was also severely bent, and actually made the boat buddy sit higher. With a new bolt in, the boat buddy sits lower.

I also reinforced the boat buddy so it won't bend. Took it apart and added some welds.....


The boat buddy works sweet now. I have a friend back the trailer down, I drive onto the bunks and when the front clicks, I just take the boat out of gear and turn off the motor and the boat comes out of the water. To get the pin to loosen, I just crank on the winch enough to free the pin for launch...


I also notice that the boat centers perfectly every time now. Before it was a chore trying to get the boat centered on the trailer. After camping for a week and launching several times, it centered every single time.

I went from loading my boat in 5 minutes and biting my nails hoping it wouldn't take out a chunk, to an effortless loading that's under a minute.

[TitanTn]

Thanks for the update and congrats on getting it fixed. It's nice to have a stress free load.