Adding a PERKO Switch

[suprasam]

I am about to order on Amazon a PERKO switch, I always carry two batteries in my boat but only used one as a back up if needed. I am adding the switch this weekend, but I have never installed dual batteries. I am sure it comes with directions on which go where, but thought I would ask prior to getting it in the mail. I am ordering the "four position" one, 1st, 2nd battery, off, and "both". If I understand correctly, using "both" while running the alternator will charge both at same time correct? When your in a cove relaxing, listening to radio whats it best to have on, "1" or "2" or both? Just trying to understand the switch completly before installing. I know its odd, but I have had boat for almost the last 17 years or so....and never had one on a boat I owned.

[beat taco]

I would get the add a battery kit with the ACR and you will have on off and combine on the switch. This will give you a start battery and a house battery that you can add accessories to. It will also charge both batteries without having to turn the switch. Just my opinion and it was a simple install.

[wotan2525]

I would get the add a battery kit with the ACR and you will have on off and combine on the switch. This will give you a start battery and a house battery that you can add accessories to. It will also charge both batteries without having to turn the switch. Just my opinion and it was a simple install.

2nd. This is the only way to go.

[suprasam]

OK, well I looked up the Blue Sea 7650 Add a battery. I'm not a total cheap ass, but please explain why I should spend 120.00 for this switch, when it looks like the Perko or same type do the same thing. What am I missing, I don't mind spending as long as I know why. It looks almost the same set up. Thanks for the help.

[beat taco]

It adds the automatic charging relay to the switch.
http://bluesea.com/files/resources/technical_briefs/Technical_Brief_upgrading_battery_switching_and_ch arge_management.pdf

[suprasam]

OK, that makes more sense reading vs the brief descriptions on the sales ad. Well I guess I'm about to spend 140.00 because it looks like I need the bar also. UGH lol that sucks, went from thinking fairly cheap to 140 quick. Oh well.......Thanks for the heads up glad I asked.

[TitanTn]

Just to add another viewpoint, I like the manual control of the Perko switch. I like to control which battery I'm using, and which battery I'm charging. It's really not a complicated matter to turn the switch (depending on where you install it). I'm actually adding one right now to my boat.

[Wylietunes]

OK, well I looked up the Blue Sea 7650 Add a battery. I'm not a total cheap ass, but please explain why I should spend 120.00 for this switch, when it looks like the Perko or same type do the same thing. What am I missing, I don't mind spending as long as I know why. It looks almost the same set up. Thanks for the help.

Sam,

First thing I would suggest is to go with a Blue Sea switch as opposed to the Perko brand. The perko is hard brittle plastic, has a larger footprint and shorter studs. the Blue Sea body is more flexible (less chance to break), smaller and longer studs.

Now to the topic at hand. The Blue Sea Add-A-Battery is comprised of a dual-battery switch (similar function as the Perko) and an ACR (Auto Combiner Relay). The are some advantages to going with that particular switch and the ACR. For the most part, the Add-A-Battery kit is a semi-auto setup, where as the basic dual-battery switch is fully manual. With an ACR, you will primarily use the OFF and ON positions when using the boat. OFF when done for the day, ON when on the water, and then COMBINE if you need the other battery bank for an emergency start. The ACR will allow the house bank to receive a charge from the alternator when the engine is running, yet isolate the main cranking bank from the house (stereo) loads while at rest. This gives you a fully charged cranking battery, regardless of how long you've jammed the system while at anchor.

Now, all of the above can be accomplished with a typical dual-battery switch, but its all up to the captain to manually rotate the switch when dropping anchor or starting back up. OFF when the boat is out of service, 1 or 2 or BOTH when running and then 1 or 2 for anchoring. This allows the house loads to pull off just one of the batteries while anchored, leaving the other in reserve for starting. Once running again, you can switch back over to the battery that was used during anchoring and replenish it some.

The stereo will be wired differently depending on which setup you go with. Hope this helps a little.

[sybrmike]

You're just paying for the convenience of not having to remember to manually switch. I've only got one season on mine since the rebuild, but really like it.

[csuggs]

Ditto Sybrmike.

I also have the Perko with no problems . . .

http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac71/csuggs/DSC03158.jpg

Battery 1 is a starting battery, and 2 is deep cycle. Usually I run on 1 and anchor on 2 (depending for how long). I like being able to manually change the battery and I can do it while driving since it just under the center OB seat cushion.

[suprasam]

Well thanks for all the additional ideas, honestly IF its only the "convenience" of turn a switch, I am gonna run with the Perko which is about 75% cheaper.

CSUGGS, is that a trickle set up? It looks like you have a positive on one, and the negative on the other? Hows that working?

[csuggs]

Well thanks for all the additional ideas, honestly IF its only the "convenience" of turn a switch, I am gonna run with the Perko which is about 75% cheaper.

CSUGGS, is that a trickle set up? It looks like you have a positive on one, and the negative on the other? Hows that working?


That photo was taken at the beginning of last season and I had a charger on the starting battery for a day. The negative sides of the two batteries are actually jumped together, all the time. Only the positive sides of the batteries are isolated through the Perko switch. With the switch in the 'OFF" position, the batteries are isolated even though the grounds are connected together.

I've thought about this at length and even purchased a Guest battery isolator which I never installed. The Perko works well for me, I just have to be mindful of which battery is on.

[chris young]

I'm a manual kind of guy, I like being in control of such decisions as which battery I'm running on, etc, but... I think this is far more than convenience. It takes a certain kind of person to properly manage a switch like that. IMHO it's too easy to neglect the proper protocol for where the switch is supposed to be, and, suddenly you've got two dead batteries. My boat only has one battery, and I'm toying with the same thing. In my case though, the boat will not be doing any sitting around powering electrics any time soon. For me it will be pretty much a single duty ski boat. None the less, if I go second battery I'll likely go the no brainer. In my case, I think I can manage a manual switch, but in reality, it's too easy to leave the switch in the wrong place.

[TitanTn]

As I said, it's simply remembering to turn the switch. Although I'm just now installing one on this boat, I've used a manual Perko switch for years on several different boats, and have always had good service and no issues remembering which battery I want to be running on. The each his own, but I can attest that a manual Perko option is valid for someone who like to manage the process personally.

[beat taco]

Just my opinion but if I were looking to spend the least amount of money I would buy this:
http://www.allbatterysalesandservice.com/browse.cfm/4,2705.html
And not buy a switch at all. To each their own, I have so much running on my house battery I would have to run combined all the time to keep everything charged and that would put me at the greatest risk to accidentally leave them combined and deplete them both (sometimes i have 8 little kids and a dog on board, I could forget to switch it when pulling up to the beach). So if I was trying to save a buck I wouldn't bother with a switch and get the separator. Fully automatic charging and I could manually disconnect the batteries.

[Wylietunes]

The Sure Power #1314 is an ACR, same as the Blue Sea #7610 and functions very much the same. I have used them on a number of occasions in conjunction with a traditional dual-battery switch. Keep in mind though, that a typical ACR/VSR has design limitations. As the loads grow larger and the battery banks get bigger and the batteries are depleted deeper, the ACR will reach those limits. Because these ACR/VSR's where not intended for the functions we ask them to perform, they may not work as expected, every time time out. If the house battery id really run down, its low voltage level will pull down the system voltage as soon as the ACR combines. At that point, the ACR hits the set isolation voltage and opens again. This "bouncing" will continue until the house bank eventually comes up. This will take awhile and thats where the having the manual switch to supplement the ACR comes in handy. On those days where that large battery banks has been run deep, instead of relying on the charge to come through the ACR, you can just rotate the switch to combine. This puts alternator voltage directly to the house bank, insuring that your stereo keeps going.

The other nice advantage of having a dual-battery switch is that you have the ability to use the house bank as an emergency cranking bank, if your primary battery ever fails while out on the water. Cant do that with a simple isolater.

[beat taco]

The Sure Power #1314 is an ACR, same as the Blue Sea #7610 and functions very much the same. I have used them on a number of occasions in conjunction with a traditional dual-battery switch. Keep in mind though, that a typical ACR/VSR has design limitations. As the loads grow larger and the battery banks get bigger and the batteries are depleted deeper, the ACR will reach those limits. Because these ACR/VSR's where not intended for the functions we ask them to perform, they may not work as expected, every time time out. If the house battery id really run down, its low voltage level will pull down the system voltage as soon as the ACR combines. At that point, the ACR hits the set isolation voltage and opens again. This "bouncing" will continue until the house bank eventually comes up. This will take awhile and thats where the having the manual switch to supplement the ACR comes in handy. On those days where that large battery banks has been run deep, instead of relying on the charge to come through the ACR, you can just rotate the switch to combine. This puts alternator voltage directly to the house bank, insuring that your stereo keeps going.

The other nice advantage of having a dual-battery switch is that you have the ability to use the house bank as an emergency cranking bank, if your primary battery ever fails while out on the water. Cant do that with a simple isolater.

My understanding was that the 1314 had a combine start feature:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/23/eju2y3yv.jpg

Are you saying if budget only allows one item and not both you would buy a switch over a charging relay? I have never had to touch my switch other then to turn it of and on. The ACR charges my house battery that has two amps, three ballast puppies (I usually fill and empty without running the boat), a heater and other accessories with no issues.
Also with the relay you could then hook your amps up directly to the battery vs. the common stud on the switch correct?

[Wylietunes]

Yes, the Sure power has a start-combine feature where as the Blue Sea has a starter-isolate feature. I prefer to not combine a good bank in parallel with dead bank, when an emergency start is the case. This is where the manual switch comes in handy.

Yes, I would suggest the switch over just an ACR if ones budget did not allow for both an ACR and dual-battery switch.

With a switch, 1, 2 or both batteries can receive a charge from the alternator, its just done manually. But with only an ACR, a heavily depleted house bank may be slow to get replenished doe to the design limitation of the ACR. This may prevent having tunes for 20-30 minutes after restarting the boat after a long period at anchor hammering the stereo. Im not saying this is necessarily a negative, but it is a situation that can arise, that the customer needs to be aware. There is no one-size-fits-all house bank/stereo scheme. Each system is different, each boat owners expectations are different and we all will use the systems differently. This makes it hard to do what we are doing right now, and thats comparing one persons design to another. With what has been posted here, I feel that a traditional dual-battery setup will serve the OP's needs. Bu that doesnt mean that there are other viable options. BeatTaco, your system works for you, so that great. it may not be what I would recommend if you where asking in a thread hear on a forum, but that shouldnt be interpreted as im stating its wrong.

If im reading your last post correctly, you are also utilizing a dual-battery switch. If so, then you are correct to have all your house loads wired directly to the house battery and NOT the "C" post of the switch. And I would agree, if all is working as planed, the switch never needs to be moved while on the water. OFF when moored, ON when on the water. This is exactly how an ACR/Switch setup should run.

[jzelt]

I have had both the Perko and currently the same setup as Wylietunes.
On both setups with a switch, I will run most of the day with it switched to one battery (so Sat morning first thing it is set to 1) or the other, the next day, I will switch it to 2 (Sun is switched to 2).

One other caution that hasn't been brought up that I see, is make sure you wire your bilge pump to a battery. If you switch either switch to off it will kill all power and should you have a small leak, sunken boat.

[TitanTn]

That's good advice, but I recently wired in my Perko switch and I connected the bilge pumps to the switch. When I leave it in the water and want power to the bilge pumps, I'll simply leave it on a battery. But when I click the switch to off, I want everything in the boat completely off.

[suprasam]

You know I didn't even think about those issues..... I am about to add a amp soon and I suppose my radio will all need to be re-wired also right? Because at this point if its wired to battery "A", and I decide to switch the Perko to "B".....I won't have any juice to my amps or stereo will I? I ordered the Perko BTW, and is suppose to be here today or tomorrow. At this point I hate electrical, and I was really hoping to keep my cost down, but I am taking the boat somewhere so they can install the switch, amp and hook the stereo up correct. I have a feeling if I do it, its gonna look like a nest of wires going everywhere! UGH.....anyone near me want free dinner and beer if they can install(jk)? Thanks for the help guys

[TitanTn]

It can be as simple or as complex as you want it. I went for simple, because I like being able to control the battery usage with absolutes. Off is OFF. Nothing has power. Battery one means that everything runs off that battery. Battery two means everything runs off that battery. This is the simplest way to connect everything. The only thing you need in addition when upgrading from a one battery setup is battery cables going from the switch to the new battery, and a battery cable going from the switch to the first battery. So when I set mine up, I just had to purchase 10' of red and black cable. Done.

[suprasam]

OK well that sounds easy enough to do, I guess I was over thinking it in my head. I will attempt it first, then I suppose if I screw it up at that point I can take it to someone. I got a price today for it to be hooked up, and they said roughly 200ish (amp, switch). I don't know if thats good or bad, but I would rather use that 200 for beer and gas this summer.

[pap]

I have the perko and the surepower switch. From what I recall the reasons to do so are: 1) if you have different type batteries and don't always run them in parallel then you can have charge issues 2) Does give ability to completely shut off power 3) I like the auto feature so I don't have to remember to flip switch or worry if I cove for awhile and might run battery down.

Basically for not even a day's gas money you make sure you don't get stranded on the lake. To me it was worth it. I got mine from Earmark and they sent me a wiring diagram which I followed. However my install looks like crap and I wish I had done a better job with picking parts and wire to make it look nice. It was more confusing than I thought and I -HATE- the battery position (in the PSL) on my 21V. I so wish I had moved the batteries when I did it.