Stereo Autopsy part 1....

[pctarmor]

Just got the boat and the stereo doesn't work as it should. Looks to have been modified, added on, and not done well. I'm going to pull it all out and start over. 1171411715117161171711718

[beat taco]

Holy spaghetti batman. At least they bought good equipment :)

[supraaddict]

Wow, good choice to start over. Post up some pics when you get her all tidied up.

[wotan2525]

...and then used lamp cord to hook up the speakers! I would replace anything Kenwood.

Lamp cord is the best/cheapest speaker cable you can buy! Wire is wire!

That being said.... this stereo/battery setup looks like mine. And that's not a compliment. ;)

[Wylietunes]

Looks like you got a heck of a project ahead of you. I would highly consider pulling the kenwood sub out from under the helm and place the Wet Sounds in its place in a ported enclosure. One properly placed sub in the a good box with solid power will go along way.

[pctarmor]

Today I'm pulling everything out except the head unit and remotes and tower speakers. I've been working with Wet Sounds for recommendations as well and they also noted to just use the WS 12 and put it under the dash and replace the kenwood 10. I'll have to get a box built but I'm planning on trying to do the rest myself. This will be the biggest install I've ever done for sure and I have to be honest I'm a little weary as I've been saving for this boat for 4 years! I really don't want to screw anything up.
Thanks for the feedback guys, I'll be sure to post pics as I go and I'm sure when I get to the battery part I'll have lots of questions....

[pctarmor]

Day 1 is done.
Pulled all the stock speakers, sub and box, stock amps and some of the wiring. The way the batteries and amps were hooked together was scary.
Some of the stock speakers were in pretty rough shape and the factory sub "box" was in pieces when i took the sub out. I don't have to convince my wife anymore that this was a good idea to do!
Day 2 will be removing the rest of the stock wiring and the wiring to the tower speakers. I can't believe whoever ran the wires to the brand new REV 10s used about 18 guage wire with ghetto fabulous splices in the middle of the wiring pulls.
On it goes...

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[pctarmor]

11740
other pic

[pctarmor]

11741
Sorry I messed up the files. Here is the other pic.

[pctarmor]

The factory wiring is really frustrating to remove. I think I'm going to have to take out the side cushions to make things go smoother. Any concerns as far as the cushions go if I start taking off the interior seat backs?

[beat taco]

I was able to get the bolts out through my speaker holes on the side panels. With those out I had a ton of open space to get my wires run. I've heard of people having their wives and children reach some of the hard to get bolts on some of the other cushions, especially the bow.

[pctarmor]

I got the rest of the system on order today. WS 650s for cabin speakers and WS HT1 will round out the amp rack. I have been struggling trying to figure out what I want to do with the sub and I think I'll just mount it under the passenger seat near the amp rack. Any thoughts on difference in performance if it is there vs under the driver's seat?
Overall I'll be less worried about damage to the sub from my kids messing with it if it is right out in the open.

[beat taco]

Nope, that is the second best place to put it. For obvious reasons some refuse to put it under the helm and that is the next ideal place to go.

[KG's Supra24]

I think you will be missing out on performance by placing it in the cubby. A well built box in the helm can't be beat and you are already buying top notch gear. I personally wouldn't short cut it at that point. id think the wetsounds reps will be saying the same thing.

Did you end up selling one pair of revs?


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[pctarmor]

I did sell one pair of the REVs. Would it make sense to in the interim just buy a standard ported box that fits the sub and mount it to the hump until I can get a custom box built? I could pick up a simple enough sub box for cheap and fab up some brackets to keep it from moving around yet keep it back under the helm so I wouldn't be kicking it.

[KG's Supra24]

I'd take some measurements before pulling the trigger on prebuilt box. It can be more difficult to cram in there than you think but it can be done. You will run into the steering column and a huge run of wires that don't have much slack that runs through the hump.

My first year I had an enormous ported box that I crammed under the helm. It worked for the interim but did take up a lot of space. Since then, with the help of Dusty2221, I have box that was built onto the hump, using the hump to hold the box pretty much. It hangs off the hump a couple inches but doesn't run all the way to floor so it didn't eat up any foot room.

You might reach out to David at Earmark. They may have prebuilt boxes and/or plans on how to build one.

What I finally ended up with ....

http://i1092.photobucket.com/albums/i401/kwgarner24/2011-05-17_19-48-48_77.jpg

[pctarmor]

I did reach out to Earmark and they were unable to help as it would be a custom build. That's a great idea of using the hump to hang the sub and not lose the foot room. Do you have any other pics of the enclosure as you were making it or measurements?

[KG's Supra24]

I might know a guy :lol: Let me see if I can't get Dusty's attention.

[beat taco]

I agree the helm is the best place, but not even an option on quite a few new boats.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/24/guvyme6a.jpg
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/24/dyjuva8y.jpg

Here is my $50 cheap ported box that solved a time problem for me last year. I screwed pucks to the bottom of it. I will build a custom box someday.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/01/24/egu7asah.jpg

[dusty2221]

I replied to your PM, but for the sake of convenience, here ya go.

There should be enough slack in them so you have some wiggle room, however be cautious not to move it to much from the original position and cause the steering cable to be in a bind or wear out prematurely.

You might also check with Earmark, as well as Youdaman. I know he has several Moomba's in the gallery online and I can assure you they don't have truck boxes wedged in. Might be of some help.

Not sure if these pics help, but here is how mine is done. Of course, pre-planned it in paint. My dimensions ended up changing after this pic, but I didn't take the time to update the drawing.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/dusty2221/Boat/subb.jpg

I did not end up using the legs drawn in this picture. I used L brackets on the side, and compressed a few to less than a 90 degree bend and used them underneath, as well as attached thru the box to the hump.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/dusty2221/Boat/sub.jpg

This one shows how the box ends up elevated off the floor all the way to the hump, with the facade coming right past the box by and inch or so. Every inch of footroom is still there. After I built it, I realized I could have still made the box 2" deeper all the way around and gained alot more "size" but I wasn't sure so this is what I ended with.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/dusty2221/Boat/subside.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/dusty2221/Boat/sub1.jpg

The cutout on the right side of my box is where my heater hose comes thru to connect to the facade. On the side view, you can see the area of the hump that the box does not set on, that is where all my cables come thru. So everything is for the most part un-moved behind it in the factory position.

[KG's Supra24]

Bam

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQD-FIuGFbfwFHNSWQ9QOlioblad8DUAOs-PFah6V9N92tpuOVqeymd5iWT-A

HA! He can provide much more help than myself.

[wotan2525]

Dang!! Those drawings are AWESOME. I've got a prebuilt 2x12" ported enclosure that I had to remove the helm and drivers seat to get in. Super big pain in the ass. It moves around and it takes up ALL of the foot-room. If I ever get a "new" boat, I'll be doing it this way.

[Salty87]

you guys have this covered very well...all i have to add is that you can get a grill for pretty cheap to protect the woofer. fingers could still get through but no feet or anything wider than an inch or so. i have something similar to this, less than $10 at amazon...

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/12-INCH-SUBWOOFER-SPEAKER-COVERS-WAFFLE-MESH-GRILL-GRILLE-PROTECT-GUARD-W-Clips-/00/s/NDAwWDM5Mg==/$(KGrHqV,!ksFB0yf(oQbBQsFyCTl5Q~~60_1.JPG

[dusty2221]

End result

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v235/dusty2221/DSCN0965.jpg

[pctarmor]

Great info, thanks a ton. Is yours ported on the lower right side to the rear? The WS sub is supposed to be at 1.4cuft (net) with a 3" round double ended flared port tuned to
around 29hz-36hz according to the WS rep.

[KG's Supra24]

Ours are sealed. Ported is going to get more difficult, both with size and construction.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[dusty2221]

No, mine is just a sealed box. I'm not near technical enough to understand all that is behind a proper set up a ported box. 2 guys that could give you excellent advice that frequent this forum are David from Earmark Marine and another guy that goes by the user name of Wylietunes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

[Wylietunes]

The tuned frequency of the ported enclosure is determined by the port's opening and length, along with the enclosures volume. Every sub has an ideal tuning frequency, which is mostly driven by the subs T/S parameters. One can tune above or below the ideal Hz for personal preference though.

For the XS-12, its ideal is 25Hz. When I build a ported enclosure, I construct the port as part of the actual enclosure, rather then use a round port assembly with sectional lengths. In this case, the space consumed my the port structure, needs to be subtracted from the gross volume of the enclosure, leaving the net. This is why a ported enclosure is more work then a simple sealed. Adjusting the volume of the box, effects the tuning Hz, readjusting the port length and it effects the net volume for the woofer, etc, etc, etc. All of this, while trying to work within a given space of a particular shape.

Now, something I learned today, about the new HT-1 amp. It does not have an adjustable sub-sonic (or infrasonic) filter. It has an internal fixed sub-sonic, and im awaiting confirmation as to what its set to. In an ideal ported enclosure setup, you will want to set the amp's subsonic filter to just below the enclosures tuned frequency. The set the floor so we are not reproducing notes below that set point. Simon @ Wet Sounds and I are putting our heads together on whats the best course of action with this particular pairing. I'll update when I have more. A sealed enclosure my be the ideal enclosure in this particular situation, which would greatly simplify the DIY install.

[EarmarkMarine]

Here's a bit of info. Hope this helps. In establishing what enclosure will fit, consider that most air suspension 12" subs with a relatively low 'Q' will require a 1.25 net internal displacement after subtracting the woofer volume which translates to about 1.75 cu.ft. external (which should be your starting point).
A bass-reflex (ported) enclosure for the same 12" driver will require a bare minimum of a 2.75 cu.ft. external displacement. That's approaching a 60 percent increase. And, as your box shape becomes more complex those dimensions will slightly increase. You really can't manipulate the bass-reflex alignment too far away from this base minimum model, despite what a computer box program may say, because it just won't sound very good.
So if you can get that 2.75 and you are satisfied with the remaining leg/foot room then you're golden.
Additionally, no matter what you coat or seal your enclosure with, you have to elevate it off the soul so that it won't wick up the moisture and provides for drainage and evaporation. Besides, who wants to create mold & mildew trap by placing an enclosure on top of the carpeted sole.
Never, ever, use a pre-built automotive box in a boat, especially the ones using the cheaper MDF from China. The seams will fail during the first season although the carpet wrap may conceal the damage for several years.
Those are a few of the basics. It's all done now except for the hard work.

David
Earmark Marine

[EarmarkMarine]

Pertaining to the subsonic filter conversation....
If you have a low Fs woofer to begin with and you tune the bass-reflex enclosure 'just' above the Fs, then there really isn't enough program material at sufficient amplitude down in that region to compromise the subwoofer. Leave any bass boast off and keep the lowpass crossover at least 1.5 octaves above the sub/enclosure tuning frequency. Easy does it on the artificial synthesized bass.
You will be fine. The problem really comes into play when someone tunes the bass-reflex sub/enclosure much higher for pure SPL and leaves the sub driver especially vulnerable below the well-damped tuning frequency.

David
Earmark Marine

[pctarmor]

I may be using a enclosure from a location in Texas to get me up and running and look to have a custom box in the future when I have more time.
I have to say, you guys are very helpful and knowledgeable about this stuff!
If you ever need any help with food manufacturing leadership let me know ;) I'm a little more equipped to talk through that stuff.

[EarmarkMarine]

I may be using a enclosure from a location in Texas to get me up and running and look to have a custom box in the future when I have more time.
I have to say, you guys are very helpful and knowledgeable about this stuff!
If you ever need any help with food manufacturing leadership let me know ;) I'm a little more equipped to talk through that stuff.

Yes, but when you start talking about what you do, my eyes will glaze over, I will become lost and will get very sleepy.