Tower speaker question

[TEAMBOAT24V]

Friends-
Just bought a 2010 Launch 24V and I'm new to the forum. It has the Roswell Tower bar with 4 speakers and 3 lights. It also has the amp upgrade, 2 amps in battery compartment. One is a 300 amp and the other is a 700, both kicker. All the speakers in the boat are kicker (including the sub). The tower speakers are Phoenix gold 6.5" and 2 don't work and one has a tear. I want to replace all 4 on the tower.

Can anyone tell me what the best choice is to replace the tower speakers? I don't know which amp is pushing what speakers and not sure how much RMS output is getting to those tower speakers. Thanks for your help.

[jonyb]

Amp model numbers would help, just a "300" and "700" doesn't help.

Just about any 6.5" speaker will work. Wet Sounds XS-650 is what i'd replace them with if it came to my shop.

You can disconnect the RCA's at each amp to see which amp powers which speakers, but if the "700" amp is the 700.5, then it's possible that it powers all the in-boat speakers and the sub. Can't give an answer with the info given.

[Wylietunes]

If you wanting to retain the speaker pod and light bar assembly, then there a few options. Next, you need to decide what you want out of your tower speakers in terms of performance and sound. This will bring you to a fork in the road. If you want good strong wake-board range projection, then you will need to look into and HLCD (Horn Loaded Compression Driver). The Kicker KM6500.2 Component tower system would be an option that would allow you to retain the light bar and just replace the 4 drivers. Other HLCD options, like a Wet Sounds Rev series, would be a complete pod and speaker setup. If you are looking for a surf/party-cove system that will be good SQ when listening near-field, then any number of traditional 6.5" coaxials will be a solution that would allow you to retain the factory light bar pod assembly. If you want to fore go the factory light bar speaker pod, then you options are even greater.

I would make the tower speaker decision first, as this could more then likely result in an amp upgrade as well.

[TEAMBOAT24V]

Amp model numbers would help, just a "300" and "700" doesn't help.

Just about any 6.5" speaker will work. Wet Sounds XS-650 is what i'd replace them with if it came to my shop.

You can disconnect the RCA's at each amp to see which amp powers which speakers, but if the "700" amp is the 700.5, then it's possible that it powers all the in-boat speakers and the sub. Can't give an answer with the info given.

thanks, sorry for the lack of detail, I assumed all 2010 models had the same equipment. It's a 300.2 and a ZX700.5. the 300 is pushing the tower only, I pulled the RCA's. thanks for your help..

[TEAMBOAT24V]

If you wanting to retain the speaker pod and light bar assembly, then there a few options. Next, you need to decide what you want out of your tower speakers in terms of performance and sound. This will bring you to a fork in the road. If you want good strong wake-board range projection, then you will need to look into and HLCD (Horn Loaded Compression Driver). The Kicker KM6500.2 Component tower system would be an option that would allow you to retain the light bar and just replace the 4 drivers. Other HLCD options, like a Wet Sounds Rev series, would be a complete pod and speaker setup. If you are looking for a surf/party-cove system that will be good SQ when listening near-field, then any number of traditional 6.5" coaxials will be a solution that would allow you to retain the factory light bar pod assembly. If you want to fore go the factory light bar speaker pod, then you options are even greater.

I would make the tower speaker decision first, as this could more then likely result in an amp upgrade as well.

I want to keep the tower and pods that are there. surf/party cove system is sufficient. thanks for the great advice. I think I'm going to go the wetsounds route as suggested by you guys.

[Wylietunes]

The XS-650 is an excellent choice. Your current Kicker DX300.2 would deliver 75W to each, as it is now. This is a little light for the XS-650 on a tower, but not grossly under powered. The other thing to consider is that the DX300.2 has a fixed Hi-Pass frequency of 100Hz. With only 75W to each speaker, I would love to dial them down a little but more. If you wanted to upgrade amp, I would look into the Kicker IX-500.2 Class-D full-range that would deliver 125W rms to each, or the Wet Sounds HT-2 that would deliver 150W to each.

[jonyb]

Mike, with the 650's being 3.8 ohm each, he'd only be able to run 2 speakers on the 300.2. I'm not sure it's stable below 2 ohm. In fact I haven't found many amps that will. I may be wrong, but I have had the problem in the past with other brands of amps. Not saying WS is the only amp choice here.

I will say though, the HT's aren't really the best choice on the 650's. They're great amps, but for just a little more money, you could get him in a Syn4.

[Wylietunes]

JB,

Although the XS0650 is spec'd as a 4 ohm nominal impedance, I have seen some ohm out below that. But, I have run many a pair wired in parallel on a single chnl of a 2 ohm stable amp without issue. I am confident in the Kicker or HT-2 amps in that respect.

Can can you elaborate for the OP, as well as im curious, more on why you feel the Syn-4 would be the better choice over the HT-2 or other 2 chnl. I may be misreading, but it sounds like you are also discounting the HT-4 as well. I think 110W rms X 4 is perfect power for an XS-650, and there wound not be an audible difference in that and 125W rms x 4.

The reason I suggest staying with a 2 chnl is because of how I believe that dual pod/light bar setup is configured. If i am not mistaken, isn't it wired with each pair in parallel inside the pod? This would give the pod two 2 conductors exiting to the amp, with a 2 ohm load on each. This would make swapping the amp almost a plug-n-play change. Going with a 4 chnl would result in rewiring the pod and tower. Now, if im incorrect on how the pod is configured, then yes, a 4 chnl would be a great option, but a 2 chnl would still be a correct option IMO.

From a power standpoint, the HT-2 would deliver a little more RMS, or head-room, then the Syn-4, yet has a smaller footprint, less expensive and more efficient. The Kicker IX500.2 would deliver 125W rms to each speaker and is also a full-range Class-D. Smaller footprint then the Syn-4 as well.

[jonyb]

All of the 650's are below 4 ohm, that's why I mentioned that wiring 2 of those parallel to a single channel drops it below 2 ohm. I haven't tried doing that on the HT's yet, but I do know that Clarion and DD amps won't handle them. Just a precaution I felt was necessary to add.

The HT amps may be okay in his case. For the 650's I won't power them with any less than a Syn4. Regardless of ratings, I just think the Syn4 is a lot stronger than the HT4. I've got a Can Am Commander with an HT6 - powering 1 pair of SW-650's in front pods, stock speakers in the rear, and a 10" sub in the Commander WS sub box. I feel like it's weak. I've gone through 3 SW-650's - mostly woofer problems. Could be a few different issues, but I feel like they're underpowered. My Supra had 3 pair of 650's powered by a Syn4, and that was the setup for 3 straight years without any damaged speakers. The 3 speakers in teh Commander were all in less than 3 months. You can sit around and read specs all day, but my opinions come from my personal, real-world experience. I hate discussing specs.

The OEM speakers should all be in parrallel. When you take an HT2 and compare it to a Syn4 - all to power 4 speakers, the HT2 is not the best option like you mention. 165X2, then cut that in half.

From what I've seen in my installs, the Syn4 is a lot better amp. It's not priced that much higher when you go talk to a dealer. Looking at it on paper changes things.

[Wylietunes]

Um, the HT-2 is 300W rms x 2 @ 2 ohm, so thats 150 to each speaker, not 165W divided by 2. So in the case of a pair of 4 ohm, or lower if you like, speakers wired in parallel, the HT-2's output is 300W x 2 at 2 ohm. Thats more then the Syn-4.

Jony, I too have some real world experience. Been a Wet Sounds and Kicker dealer/installer for almost 5 years. So im speaking from experience as well. Im sure you do not know who I am by my username, but you contacted me through Wake World about 3-4 years ago asking about LED rings. I gave you the contact info for my local guy that do mine.

[jonyb]

I remember you Mike. Couldn't remember if you were a WS dealer or not.

Like I said, I don't like talking specs. Looking at the price lists I just overlooked the ratings. BUT, do you really trust those? I always felt like the Syn's were underrated. I can notice a big difference in sound quality and loudness in my Commander with the 650's and HT6. On paper it's 15W, but there's no way it's only that much.

[Wylietunes]

I have no reason to not trust specs from higher quality lines like Wet Sounds, Kicker etc. Their advertised RMS is CEA2006 compliant and they typically deliver more.

[jonyb]

When I said underrated, I meant that teh specs were on the conservative side.

[TEAMBOAT24V]

So I got the XS650's, but there's one problem. The tweeter is attached to the grill on the speaker and the speaker does not fit in the can with the grill on there, and you can't attach it to the Rosswell can grill with the grill that came on the XS650 that has the tweeter. I could take the grill off the XS650 and cut the wire on the tweet and it would all fit, but I don't want to destroy the speaker. So now what?

[Wylietunes]

Thats a typical design of a 2-way coaxial. The tweeter is part of the grill and is an integral part of the speaker. With out the tweeter, its basically a 6.5" woofer and will sound like @$$, so do not remove the grill and cut the tweeter. The XS-650's grill OD is in line with most other marine coax speakers. Can you post a couple pics of the speaker not fitting? Im a visual guy, so im having a hard time getting how its not fitting. seeing it will help me, so I can help you.

[TEAMBOAT24V]

I'll try and put some pics up this weekend, but bottom line is that the Roswell Grill will not fit on top of the XS650 grill. you can't mount a speaker in the Roswell can without using the original grill because the original Roswell grill is part of the whole mount in the can. Without the grill on the XS650 it would work, but that isn't happening now..

[jonyb]

I'd need to see it too, but when I mounted 650's in a Roswell can, I used the WetSounds grill, the Roswell cans didn't have grills. Can you not do it that way?

[TEAMBOAT24V]

Here's some pics. You can't use the Wetsound speaker alone inside the Roswell can because 1. the grill on the XS650 does not have threaded holes and 2. it does not sit flush with the diameter of the can. As you can see you can't use both grill either. I'm gonna go with plan B. Get rid on the Roswell Light bar and Cans all together and get new cans and speakers. Probably Rev 8's.


Original Phoenix Gold's in Roswell cans.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/jayrogers/speaker/speaker001.jpg
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/jayrogers/speaker/speaker002.jpg

Roswell Can grill and and mounting bracket. The Grill has 4 threaded holes for mounting speaker.
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/jayrogers/speaker/speaker003.jpg

Wetsounds XS650 speaker and Roswell Grill
http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h241/jayrogers/speaker/speaker004.jpg

[TEAMBOAT24V]

I'd need to see it too, but when I mounted 650's in a Roswell can, I used the WetSounds grill, the Roswell cans didn't have grills. Can you not do it that way?

I posted pics but says the moderator has to approve the post, not sure how long that takes. That post should explain and show everything. My boat has te Package F Roswell Light bar and 4 speakers. I'm going to just scrap that light bar and speakers and get new cans and speakers. sending the XS650s back. probably do the Rev 8s.

[Jetlink]

Taken care of of, post and pics should now be available for everyone's viewing pleasure.

[Wylietunes]

I posted pics but says the moderator has to approve the post, not sure how long that takes. That post should explain and show everything. My boat has te Package F Roswell Light bar and 4 speakers. I'm going to just scrap that light bar and speakers and get new cans and speakers. sending the XS650s back. probably do the Rev 8s.

You will need a new amp to drive them.

[Wylietunes]

So what about a machine screw through the grill of the XS-650 with a locknut threaded on securing that holding fixture in the same manor as the PG does with a through-bolt threaded into the speaker grill. Fill the other 2 mounting holes in the XS-650 with just a bolt and nut as dummy.

[TEAMBOAT24V]

I thought about that, but the grill is just thin plastic and with all the bouncing around a boat does, I just don't trust that it wouldn't crack the grill over time and break. Also, the grill is not the same diameter as the Can, it's a tab small so it would not look right either. Already ordered a couple Rev 8s with the swivel clamps. I have a bunch of amps at the house, so I will upgrade that too.

Anyone need a Roswell light bar without speakers? I'd rather not see it in the corner of the garage for the next several years. make an offer :)