starting isue

[Jdm89supra]

OK if I take my boat out and drop it in the water some times it will turn right over first bump. Other times if you give it any gas at all it will act like it is flooded. Motor will turn over great just wont start. I rebuilt the entire motor last year Carb aswell. New fuel line new fuel filter new plugs and wires aswell as new points. It also does this same thing after letting it sit for thirty min or so after riding around. I have looked at other threads to see about this fuel soak but its doing it at a cold start aswell as hot. After it starts it runs like a top couldn't ask for any better. I have not checked the timing yet. I am going to do that tonight but. Thought I would see if anyone else has had this isue before to mabie throw in some more ideas. The only thing that kills me is it wont do it every time

[CornRickey]

When its acting up run a 12 volt lead to the hot side of the coil while cranking and see if it changes anything. Sometimes a increased resistance of the older harnesses along with a ballist resistor can lead to not enough volts to the coil.

[cadunkle]

You mentioned it acts like it's flooded. When it won't fire, if you hold the throttle all the way open does it start? If flooded, this will clear the flooded condition. Check your float level, it may be slightly high. After turning the engine off, watch your primary and secondary boosters and see if fuel is dripping. Are the throttle plates wet?

Check your timing. Initial timing should be in the 8*-12* range. Do not go too much initial or you may have detonation issues. 8* is a safe initial timing and will result in easier starting than any additional timing.

When having the problem check voltage at the coil. Ensure you are getting voltage while cranking as well. Also check for spark. You can pull a plug wire or the coil wire and hold it close to metal on the intake. You should see a bright white hot spark. If spark is orange and weak, you may have voltage or coil problems.

[Jdm89supra]

it will turn over great it has 12.6 while starting Ive put a meter on it. I have fire I have gas compression is great. I have all new wiring and all new harness every wire in this boat is brand new along with cables and all. I am just lost its almost like what could it possibly be. I will say this though every now and then I open up the cover on the motor and I have smelt gas in the past but not since the rebuild

[michael hunter]

Check the dwell then timing . It kinda sounds like the float level may be too high?

[Jdm89supra]

yes if I hold it wide open or give it three pumps in most cases it will fire but runs rough for a few seconds then runs fine it is an older style four barrel holly and it dosnt have the flote adjustment screws I have to bend the tabs to move the floats. also timing was out a little. their are no marks saying how far I am going each way I just have a whit line and I was about 1 in to the retarted side of it and I adjusted it to dead on the mark and I did make sure there were no marks by wipping it down with a scotch brite pad from paint. it stopped the shaking of the boat but had to turn the idle up a 1/4 turn she is now at 750 and holding in idle but still hard to start when cold or after I have ran for a while. not to sure with this crab which way to bend the tab for the floats

[Jdm89supra]

also what would happen if the floats are to low

[Jdm89supra]

ok I have had a huge brain fart. when I was working on timing this motor I had forgot that this is a left hand turn motor before I time this thing again all I am finding is 10 degrees btdc is this correct if so left hand is going to be to the left of tdc 10 degress not to the right eather way it runs like a scolded dog but wont start hot to the right of tdc

[cadunkle]

Get it timed properly. I seem to recall you have a 454 in a Saltare. If so that single mark on the balancer is TDC. Marks for timing should be on the pointer. IIRC each notch is 2* and should be labeled. Not as nice as Fords with a properly marked balancer but it works.

What is confusing is you say if you hold the throttle wide open OR give it three pumps it will start. If that's the case it likely is not a flooded condition. Holding the throttle open while cranking will clear the flooded condition. Pumping will add more fuel and exacerbate the flooded condition. So if either one gets it to start, you likely have another problem entirely. Regardless, to lower floats bend tab so it is closer to the needle. The higher the needle, the lower the float level. Note that you can swap normal externally adjustable bowls on that carb if you have any laying around.

Cold start issues could be choke realted. Does the carb have a choke installed? If so is it adjusted properly? Adjust so that flapper is just shy of closed with engine cold. If you have a high idle cam installed, adjust so idle RPM with choke on is lowest that will idle reasonably smoothly while cold. Probably around 1000 RPM maybe a hair more.

[Jdm89supra]

It is a conbrio with a 351 left hand turn so timing is oposit

[cadunkle]

Opposite of what? Your have a standard rotation engine unless someone changed it. I don't believe Supra ever used reverse rotation engines. Standard or reverse rotation your initial timing should still be 8*-12* BTDC and you should have around 32*-36* by 3000 RPM. So what is your initial timing set at?

[Jdm89supra]

alright got it fixed this pcm 351 is a left hand turn motor my pcm dealer here in town said that this motor and trany are rare because their is only a hand full of them out their all or the seals I replaced and trans parts are not rh turn if I was to put everything back together with rh parts and seals it would leak oil which is the problem I was trying to fix and all of my seals are metric I had them look at the timming issue and they got it fixed it was the fact of a left hand turn it is left of top dead center not right as it would be on a right hand turn motor even if you look up main seals or distributors it says left hand or right hand and this is a left but got it fixed fires right up even when hot now thanks for all of your responses

[cadunkle]

Glad it's fixed. So you are aware though, your left hand standard rotation engine is the same as just about every 351w made from 1969 through 1997. It is not rare or uncommon. Those are standard automotive seals for the crank, nothing special. You can use off the shelf parts from Summit or any parts store.

[Jdm89supra]

Glad it's fixed. So you are aware though, your left hand standard rotation engine is the same as just about every 351w made from 1969 through 1997. It is not rare or uncommon. Those are standard automotive seals for the crank, nothing special. You can use off the shelf parts from Summit or any parts store.

OK well I talked with supra and pcm if I were to go buy the belts and points and anything else off the shelf for this.motor it wont fit wrong belts wrong points and pcm has told me when I gave them the engine number that they made 20 of this stile motor and it was built in their Canada location when they were their in 88-89 whitch exsplains why everything is metric and why supra has told me and sent all of the documentation that they had built 10. Comps and 10 conbrios with this motor which also exsplains y my conbrio inside didn't look anything like other modles they were all made for one special event and supra said that they were sorry they didn't have anymore do umentation on it sense their plant burner down about 10 years ago and they also made me an oder to buy it back which I am not going to do but.this.is what I know and ha e paper work on and y I ha e a hard time finding parts

[cadunkle]

Paragraphs, spelling, capitalization and punctuation are not the enemy. It is quite difficult to read your posts and figure out what you're trying to say. Anyhow...

That is interesting about the Canadian model. Your engine block and heads are still standard Ford parts and any automotive parts will bolt right on. I also highly doubt PleasureCraft specially ordered block and heads from Ford with no bosses drilled, and then drilled and tapped for metric fasteners. Bracketry and such perhaps, but I have a hard time believing the engine is all metric. The front and rear main seals are standard ford parts.

Belts, sure if the bracketry or accessories are different they will likely be different. I like the good quality of PCM belts, but it's just a belt. You can measure the size and order a belt from anywhere or just bring your old belts to any auto parts store. Points should always be looked up by distributor model as you never know what has been changed on an older boat. I suggest converting to electronic ignition if your distributor is otherwise in good condition. I do not recommend Pertronix though as I've had issues with them and they do not stand behind their product.

[Jdm89supra]

sorry not computer friendly at all. when I started the rebuild on this I had a hard time because when I went to my local pcm dealer and ordered the rear main seal which I know is right or left turn for main seal right hand is black and the left hand is brown from what was shown and ordered. originaly they said it was a standard motor and the tranny was a 1.21.1 and I also needed a trans seal. they got all of the parts in and I pulled the motor due to lose of oil and trans fluid we were having. got everything apart and no seal fit at all they were not even the right size. what I had in my hand and what were in their are the same thing the black typical right hand turn seals. but the seal that was in it looked great no wear spring on the seal was fine anyway we went ahead and put the new seals on and put it back together. started it up and within 2 min it was leaking again. I went the next day to the dealer and they said om we will order the left hand seals and see if it could possibly be that but both seals are the same size its just how they are made. a couple of days later they called and I went to get the seals and pulled the motor again. took it all apart and pulled the seals which had oil and trans fluid all over them. I put the new seal in which was the left hand turn style seal and noticed it had play in it. it went in way to easy. called the dealer up and asked is their any other seal that this could be because not one of the seals I had would fit snug. he said let me make a few calls and I will call you back. a few hours later I get a call from a guy three hours away that said he has only ran into this issue one time before and it was 15 years ago is their anyway you can bring the motor and trans to me. I took the motor and trans to him and he started looking and taking measure mints and said this is a metric seal not a standard seal infact all of these seals are metric so that got into calling pcm. pcm had the seals that I needed and said that their are not that many people calling for these parts anymore but that they had plenty so I ordered the entire rebuild kit. every seal specialty bolt and all so I had them if need be so I didn't have to go threw this again. I also ordered the distributor and trans rebuild kit as well. that is when the pcm tec on the phone had mentioned that the motor was made in Canada a very few were made from that plant and said every part on this motor besides the block and heads and piston size from the typical ford engine is going to be metric. all of the bolts and even the flywheel size is metric. that's also when it was mentioned that the entire trans was metric as well. after the hole part fiasco everything had come in and I had done all of the necessary work on it put it back in the boat fired it up and it wouldn't stay running. started to look at timing problems and I had it set to the standard 10 btdc on the right side of 0 and it wouldn't stay running called the pcm guys first words were move it to 10 deg to the left of tdc and see what it dose. fired right up and didn't cut off which the typical motor turns right but their is no reason it should be to the opposite side of tdc which would be retarted not advanced which has cofused me