Adventures in Boat Detailing

[trayson]

So, I bought a 92 Supra Sunsport. It has the main hull stripe that's black. It was cloudy and I could see the ghosting where the oem decals had been removed.

I've never done much with machine polishing, but last year I won a Griot's Garage 6" random orbital in a BMW Club raffle, so it seemed like I could jump into this project.

https://griotsgarage.scene7.com/is/image/GriotsGarage/10813_FAM?$detail$

I got some advice from a professional detailer, and he suggested that I start by using the products and equipment that I already had.

So, I had some Meguiars Fine Cut and also some of the Griot's Machine Polish #2. I found this chart: http://www.auto-geek.net/charts/wax-cut-chart-master.htm and according to it, the Mageuiars was a little more agressive. Because the hull seemed like it needed a little work and because the Meguiars was older and I wanted to get rid of it first, I started with that. I used the Griot's Garage red polishing foam pad that came in my starter kit.

http://images.meguiarsdirect.com/imagesEdp/p84836b.jpg https://griotsgarage.scene7.com/is/image/GriotsGarage/10626_FAM?$detail$

I was just kinda winging it as far as guessing about the amount of product to use. I did a 2x2 section and was wow'd by the difference. It immediately got rid of a lot of the cloudiness and any water spots. so I continued and did the fine cut on most of the starboard side black stripe.

I was a bit disappointed when yesterday I came back to the project (we'd had a couple days of rain, so I had to pause for weather) and it seemed that all the parts I did the cutting on had got all cloudy and hazy.

I was able to get rid of that again pretty easy by doing another pass with the fine cut. My guess is that because I only did the cut and didn't follow it with a wax, that it left it open to getting cloudy again right away.

So, yesterday I redid the fine cut on the starboard, and this time followed it with some wax. I used the Griot's garage best of show wax that came in my starter kit with the red wax pad.

http://bjs.richfx.com.edgesuite.net/image/media/134743378_400x400.jpg

It seemed to have helped, as it still looked decent when I came out this morning to look at it. most of the decal ghosting was gone and the cloudiness hadn't returned yet...



I also busted out the heat gun and took off some decal lettering from the stern. The previous owner had bought a set of 4" chrome raised "LAUNCH" lettering. I have plans for the stern with custom lettering of my boat's name. And I was also told in my first reply on this forum that my boat does NOT have a launch hull, so I figured it best to take that off. I'm not about being a "poser". It's like people in the BMW world that put M3 badges on their 328's. The badge doesn't change what's underneath, LOL.

I did a little to it with the Goo-Gone, but I've still got plenty of residue to get rid of. I hate that about removing lettering that had foam adhesive.


So, was my guess accurate that because I didn't follow the polishing with wax right away that that made my polishing efforts "fade"? I'll try to get some actual pics up as I continue in my adventure... But please feel free to offer any feedback or comments.

[Salty87]

the goal of rubbing/wetsanding/polishing..whatever approach you take, is to remove very fine imperfections in the surface of the gelcoat. that's one of the nice things about gelcoat, it's much thicker than paint so it can be brought back whereas paint needs to be reapplied when scratched or super dull.

what's happening when the cloudiness comes back quickly is that the surface imperfections weren't removed completely. waxes, oils and i've even read of people using furniture polish and other crazy stuff (vaseline, really) can temporarily hide the imperfections but as you've seen it won't last forever. they are still there.

for best results, keep working the surface beyond where it first looks good. give it another pass. clean your bonnet frequently so you don't just move grime around the hull. finesse it polish is fantastic stuff. will make the hull sparkle even after it's already looking good. you'll have popeye arms by the time you're done.

oh...save the random orbital for your cars. they don't work well enough on gel. they may be ok for paint but not for gelcoat. harbor freight has a decent polisher with adjustable speed for pretty cheap.

almost forgot...pics, pics and more pics?

[2500HD]

i agree with salty87. i used an eight inch grinder with a wool bonnet and heavy cutting compound. followed with glaze compound. i haven't started waxing yet as the weather turned to crap on me.
cutting compound
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/2500hd1/IMAG0207_zps8e009369.jpg
after glaze
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/2500hd1/IMAG0215_zps2165d9d7.jpg

[wotan2525]

The guys up top are completely right. A lot of the polishing/finishing compounds contain ingredients that will temporarily "fill" your imperfections and make the surface shiny until they wear out/dry out. I used every product in a bottle that I could find (and kept having to do it every year.)

2 years ago, I wet-sanded first and then compounded and then polished and then waxed. It made a world of difference and the boat still looks like it did when I finished.

Re: polishers/grinders -- a grinder is wayyyy too fast for this kind of work. I used this cheap HF polisher and thought it worked great for the compounding and polishing.

http://www.harborfreight.com/7-inch-electronic-polisher-66615.html

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/9041/dscn0440y.jpg

[Salty87]

^ love that SS rubrail! i regret going back with rubber/plastic whatever.

[2500HD]

Re: polishers/grinders -- a grinder is wayyyy too fast for this kind of work. I used this cheap HF polisher and thought it worked great for the compounding and polishing

While i completely agree about most grinders, this was a worn out slower speed grinder that happened to work very well. I would never put one of my wood working grinders on the gel coat, they would burn it almost instantly. My small grinder is 13,000rpm and the one i used was between 1000 and 2500 rpm (roughly)

[trayson]

almost forgot...pics, pics and more pics?

Okay, here is the port side after I did the polishing on 1/2 of it.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-8j-ApMWMqmw/UWtWo6kMktI/AAAAAAAANzU/ZLOflAHLXtQ/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-2EKPTm0Se-I/UWtWqntj4QI/AAAAAAAANzc/lndQInr1i1w/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

And here is how it came out after a coat of wax.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-KIVrU0ej-KA/UWtWsvRqzsI/AAAAAAAANzk/Ygwn1pX_XwU/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-FRGRgz7iUjU/UWtWusa81HI/AAAAAAAANzs/4PMpmlrnX2Y/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

I'm sure it's not the best job in the world... But it's certainly a lot better than it started and it's good enough to have me satisfied for now...

[whammond]

This is perfect timing for this thread to come up. I'm about to detail my 92' Comp as soon as the pollen quits where I am located (Raleigh, NC the motherland of pollen). I've found a pretty good guide for compounding/polishing/waxing that I'll immediately post after this. I'm still a new forum member so any posts with links inside them have to get approved by a moderator so it may take a little while. It's a good read and I found it very helpful. My current plan is to buy a variable speed polisher from Harbor Freight and 3M detailing products. From what i've heard 3M Finesse It polish really makes it shine.

[whammond]

Link to compounding/polishing/waxing guide

http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/52772-tips-compound-polish-wax.html

[haugy]

Okay, seeing those pics. Stop what you are doing.

Go get you some 800 grit sand paper, some 1000, some 1500, and some 2000 grit. Wet sand that whole sucker down, starting with the 800 grit. Then polish with the compound, and then follow with the wax.

While your boat does look better, that's still not the mirror shine that is hiding under there. And after one year, that white oxidation will be back again. Clean it all out, and off, and then protect it.

It's a butt-load of work, trust me. I'm about to do the bottom of my Saltare and it's terrible. But you do it once, and then protect and maintain your wax, and you'll last a long time without having to do it again.

[wotan2525]

It's a butt-load of work, trust me.

Cannot be over-stated. It took me 40+ hours to do the whole process.

But it was much better than spending 8-10 hours/year to only have it last until the middle of august.

[trayson]

Okay, seeing those pics. Stop what you are doing.

Go get you some 800 grit sand paper, some 1000, some 1500, and some 2000 grit. Wet sand that whole sucker down, starting with the 800 grit. Then polish with the compound, and then follow with the wax.

While your boat does look better, that's still not the mirror shine that is hiding under there. And after one year, that white oxidation will be back again. Clean it all out, and off, and then protect it.

It's a butt-load of work, trust me. I'm about to do the bottom of my Saltare and it's terrible. But you do it once, and then protect and maintain your wax, and you'll last a long time without having to do it again.


Cannot be over-stated. It took me 40+ hours to do the whole process.

But it was much better than spending 8-10 hours/year to only have it last until the middle of august.

Ugh. That's not what I wanted to hear. I don't know if I have the motivation (or time) to tackle that intensive of a project... *sigh*

[haugy]

Ugh. That's not what I wanted to hear. I don't know if I have the motivation (or time) to tackle that intensive of a project... *sigh*

Then don't. Get it waxed up for this season. Get out and enjoy it. But plan to do the wetsanding in the off-season. You don't have to rush. You don't have to think how you are missing being out on the water.

I just didn't want you to invest tons of time and money in waxes, polishes, and compounds for a temporary fix. The sandpaper is cheap, it's strength and time you'll need. Then compounding and waxing will feel like nothing. But you will be amazed at how deep the color and shine really is.

You can help the process by using a slow speed pneumatic orbital sander. (no electric with wet sanding). Put it on low and work down the boat. Just do not get in a rush and speed it up. Take a look at the boats done by Donny in this forum. They were wetsanded with slow speed orbitals (was told that, correct me if wrong).

So shine'er up nice for the season, and then plan for a fun October. Don't wait till next year as then you'll be rushed and not-nearly as motivated. Get it done early so when the sun hits, you're ready.

[trayson]

Yeah, I guess part of my quandry was that I was SUPER excited to get a bunch of new decals on the hull. I've got a cool theme and I'm torn--because obviously if I put on the new decals that's going to make the whole wetsanding and polishing process a bit harder, right? All the new decals are bought and should arrive this week...

[Jetlink]

Hold off on the decals for a year, unless they are going to add horsepower of course. If you can wait until the off season to tackle a wet sanding project, you can also wait a season to add those graphics.

[trayson]

Hold off on the decals for a year, unless they are going to add horsepower of course. If you can wait until the off season to tackle a wet sanding project, you can also wait a season to add those graphics.

Yeah, you're probably right. (LOL at the HP comment). The only decal that really has to go on is the registration lettering, and that's on a white background anyway, so it's not as big of a draw as making the black come back to life...

[Jetlink]

Yeah, you're probably right. (LOL at the HP comment). The only decal that really has to go on is the registration lettering, and that's on a white background anyway, so it's not as big of a draw as making the black come back to life...

Get a cheap set of registration numbers, slap them on for the season with the intent to remove them at the end when you wet sand. Saves your awesome decals for after you're done with the wet sanding too.

[haugy]

Or just don't run them. :D I ran for about 4 years without my numbers. Just had my current registration sticker, and my papers in case I was stopped. Anytime I was stopped "officer I'm waiting on the decals to get here, they were custom ordered" :D :D

[wotan2525]

Or just don't run them. :D I ran for about 4 years without my numbers. Just had my current registration sticker, and my papers in case I was stopped. Anytime I was stopped "officer I'm waiting on the decals to get here, they were custom ordered" :D :D


LOL! I did the same thing for 3 years except didn't even have registration.... only the "carbon" copy of the paperwork that I was "waiting back on." Just filled out a new one every spring and shoved it in the glovebox. Finally decided to go "legit" and actually registered it.

[foxriverat]

Ugh. That's not what I wanted to hear. I don't know if I have the motivation (or time) to tackle that intensive of a project... *sigh*Don't be afraid of the time to wet sand. Did mine last year. And in my opinion the wet sanding was easier than the polishing. used 800 1000 1500 2000

[Okie Boarder]

Okay, seeing those pics. Stop what you are doing.

Go get you some 800 grit sand paper, some 1000, some 1500, and some 2000 grit. Wet sand that whole sucker down, starting with the 800 grit. Then polish with the compound, and then follow with the wax.

While your boat does look better, that's still not the mirror shine that is hiding under there. And after one year, that white oxidation will be back again. Clean it all out, and off, and then protect it.

It's a butt-load of work, trust me. I'm about to do the bottom of my Saltare and it's terrible. But you do it once, and then protect and maintain your wax, and you'll last a long time without having to do it again.

x1000.

I did a wetsand with 1000 grit, compound and polish a few years ago. Obviously it wasn't enough because the haze started coming back after about 1 1/2 years. Last year I did a small section as an experiment starting with 600, then 800, then 1000, then compound/polish wax. I did a second section of 800/1000/compound/polish wax. They both look good after a year on the water and it seems like the 600 is unecessary, so I'm getting ready to do 800/1000 compound/polish/wax.

[Okie Boarder]

You can help the process by using a slow speed pneumatic orbital sander. (no electric with wet sanding). Put it on low and work down the boat. Just do not get in a rush and speed it up. Take a look at the boats done by Donny in this forum. They were wetsanded with slow speed orbitals (was told that, correct me if wrong).

Que? I'd like to hear more about this. Using an orbital would be a lot nicer than the block and paper method, IMO.

[haugy]

Que? I'd like to hear more about this. Using an orbital would be a lot nicer than the block and paper method, IMO.

Well you know me. I'm old school and prefer block sanding, but doing the bottom of the hull can nearly kill you doing it with a block. With a pneumatic you can use water. Turn the speed down so it's barely moving. The make your motions like you would using a block. I wear saftey glasses that can't let water in, and with one hand I'm sanding, the other I'm spraying water constantly. It's beyond messy. But this makes it so instead of going back and forth repeatedly like you would a block. You can make a couple of passes and move on.

For the record, I don't recommend this on the dark getlcoat, especially on dark colored boats. The black on mine and his are more susceptible to errors. Once you get up to 1500+ range you can move pretty quick. My plan on the bottom hull is to go from 800 to 3000 grit. Hopefully removing the compounding step. But the reality is that I don't think 3000 will even phase gelcoat. But we'll see.

[trayson]

So, let's say that I do this wetsanding, polishing, and finally the wax. If I spread this out over days or weeks and the boat is outside, is that going to be a problem? Will anything happen if the boat's sitting outside between the various sanding efforts?

Likewise, what would happen if I got through some of these steps and then wanted to go play on the boat and plunked it into the river?

[Kma4444]

No and No and nothing.

[Okie Boarder]

Well you know me. I'm old school and prefer block sanding, but doing the bottom of the hull can nearly kill you doing it with a block. With a pneumatic you can use water. Turn the speed down so it's barely moving. The make your motions like you would using a block. I wear saftey glasses that can't let water in, and with one hand I'm sanding, the other I'm spraying water constantly. It's beyond messy. But this makes it so instead of going back and forth repeatedly like you would a block. You can make a couple of passes and move on.

For the record, I don't recommend this on the dark getlcoat, especially on dark colored boats. The black on mine and his are more susceptible to errors. Once you get up to 1500+ range you can move pretty quick. My plan on the bottom hull is to go from 800 to 3000 grit. Hopefully removing the compounding step. But the reality is that I don't think 3000 will even phase gelcoat. But we'll see.

What do you think about doing it with the blue and tan I've got? I wouldn't mind the assistance of a power sander.

[2500HD]

ok, here is my 2 cents. You have three choices as i see it.
1 Go and enjoy it.
2 Due a full wet sand and take your time to do it right.
3 Do what i did and get a heavy cutting compound and take your time with a low speed tool of some sort. I spent about 10hrs total and got the main color through the glaze portion of the project and it looks great, very shiny. While i agree that a full proof method is wet sanding, your hull may not need it. For me it was an easy choice as march and april in northern colorado sucks. There isn't enough snow to go snowmobiling and to much snow to do anything else. So i got the time to do it every year while i'm jonesing for lake time. I'll post a pic of the shine being fully aware that it may not last and being fully aware that i have the time to do it again next spring.
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/2500hd1/IMAG0214_zps0875ecef.jpg

[trayson]

ok, here is my 2 cents. You have three choices as i see it.
1 Go and enjoy it.
2 Due a full wet sand and take your time to do it right.
3 Do what i did and get a heavy cutting compound and take your time with a low speed tool of some sort. I spent about 10hrs total and got the main color through the glaze portion of the project and it looks great, very shiny. While i agree that a full proof method is wet sanding, your hull may not need it. For me it was an easy choice as march and april in northern colorado sucks. There isn't enough snow to go snowmobiling and to much snow to do anything else. So i got the time to do it every year while i'm jonesing for lake time. I'll post a pic of the shine being fully aware that it may not last and being fully aware that i have the time to do it again next spring.


I've been kicking around that very idea. I mean, I think I've given up on the idea of a full wet sanding project. But I did order the 3m marine polishing compound and the finesse it II marine wax. And I got a yellow more abrasive pad.

I'm still nervous that I might do more harm than good with wetsanding and require someone else (at significant cost) to fix my screw ups at a later date... Either way, I'll keep ya'all updated.

[wotan2525]

Your reasoning is exactly what I went through for 6 years. I was terrified of screwing it up.

It's pretty much impossible to do. The gel-coat is THICK and even 600 takes off such a relatively small amount.

I'd never wet-sand auto paint but gelcoat is easy peasy.

Good luck!

[Salty87]

true. i've never read of someone messing up their gel. don't use an electric sander but that's kinda obvious since it's called WETsanding. use lots of water, a constant but not too hard stream. unless you're on roids, you will run out of arms before you get through the gelcoat.

start on the transom, nice small area. you can do the sides later or maybe it will motivate you to start sooner once you see yourself in the mirror reflection it will have.

[kvand347]

I know I'm not supposed to jump in here since this isn't my thread (sorry Trayson), but what are people's thoughts about wetsanding and the like with a boat that has been painted grey over the red gelcoat? What then? Not sure why it was painted in the first place. I'm afraid if I take it off I might find some shoddy repairs in the hull requiring a full gel coat job. Nervous....

[haugy]

I know I'm not supposed to jump in here since this isn't my thread (sorry Trayson), but what are people's thoughts about wetsanding and the like with a boat that has been painted grey over the red gelcoat? What then? Not sure why it was painted in the first place. I'm afraid if I take it off I might find some shoddy repairs in the hull requiring a full gel coat job. Nervous....

Welcome to my trainwreck. My boat was black and some friggin idiot probably told the previous owners that in order to get their shiny black hull back, they would need to paint it. So they did, poorly. It has minor orange peel all the way down. *rage*

So.....do I strip the paint and try to restore the gelcoat? Or do I just deal with? I have no idea who prepped it. And if it's anything like the paint job, it's probably some jackass who took 300 grit and a power sander to the gelcoat. If I strip the paint, the gelcoat underneath could be absolute crap.

Right now, I'm looking at stripping the paint off. Seeing what I've got to work with. If I can restore the gel great, if not, a proper paint job will go back on.

That is most likely next winters main project. As no matter what I do, $$$$ will be involved.

[trayson]

I know I'm not supposed to jump in here since this isn't my thread (sorry Trayson),

Thread Jack away. These forums are all about help and knowledge through sharing, so I'm all for it.

Welcome to my trainwreck. My boat was black and some friggin idiot probably told the previous owners that in order to get their shiny black hull back, they would need to paint it. So they did, poorly. It has minor orange peel all the way down. *rage*

So.....do I strip the paint and try to restore the gelcoat? Or do I just deal with? I have no idea who prepped it. And if it's anything like the paint job, it's probably some jackass who took 300 grit and a power sander to the gelcoat. If I strip the paint, the gelcoat underneath could be absolute crap.

Right now, I'm looking at stripping the paint off. Seeing what I've got to work with. If I can restore the gel great, if not, a proper paint job will go back on.

That is most likely next winters main project. As no matter what I do, $$$$ will be involved.

UGH. That sounds daunting to say the least. Makes my situation seem easy-peasy.

BTW, for those that are interested in the 3M marine products, I found that www.autogeek.net has them at reasonable prices and I was able to get no tax and free shipping (using the code "freeship"). So, that was cool.

[haugy]

UGH. That sounds daunting to say the least. Makes my situation seem easy-peasy.

Yes, I'd jump to be in your shoes. Once you do it, you'll realize how easy it was. Just enjoy your summer and then deal with it.