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trayson
05-28-2013, 05:20 PM
I'd love some help with optimizing the bags and layout for my ballast on my 92 sunsport direct drive. It seems like a fairly popular model on these forums, so I'm hoping I can leverage others experience.


I currently have a hard plumbed fly high bag that fills the space beneath the rear seats.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ZbIBJSBK3sE/UVO5SFV_l8I/AAAAAAAANtg/FkbKDnHpPgA/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

I'm going to add a Fly High X-series Tube Sack that will fill the ski locker (I'll put in some valves so I can fill them both from my impeller based Ballast Puppy pump). This is the setup that the previous owner had, but he kept the ski locker sack when he sold me the boat.

The previous owner gave me another bag that I'll be able to use to fill the center locker at the rear of the playpen.

Right now I have dual batteries under the passenger seat (might add a 3rd battery if I get ambitous sometime).

I'm thinking that 1 more bag on the floor alongside of the engine compartment would finish up the job. Maybe pick up the Fly High X-series 50x20x20 sack? --or will that even fit? (I'm at work dreaming of surfing, so I can't just run outside and measure my boat's floorspace).

Will that be too much with everything predominately in the stern? Or just right?

Keep in mind that I'd like to optimize with the idea that most the time I'll have a minimal crew with me. Often just 2 or 3 others.

http://www.wakemakers.com/wakeboard-ballast-bags?manufacturer=6

wotan2525
05-28-2013, 05:23 PM
50x20x20 should fit perfectly either behind the engine or next to the engine.

Too much weight is better than not enough. Sounds like you've got a good plan but with only 2 people you might still be a little light.

trayson
05-28-2013, 05:37 PM
50x20x20 should fit perfectly either behind the engine or next to the engine.

Too much weight is better than not enough. Sounds like you've got a good plan but with only 2 people you might still be a little light.

Well, I do have 6 bags of cement that the previous owner wrapped in duct tape that I could use for static ballast. they can be stashed in pretty much any of the storage lockers (except the one w/ the batteries). But I'm just kinda leary about ballast that I have to haul around when trailering the boat... (not that it's a big deal going under 10 miles to the launch)

Jetlink
05-28-2013, 06:15 PM
Well, I do have 6 bags of cement that the previous owner wrapped in duct tape that I could use for static ballast. they can be stashed in pretty much any of the storage lockers (except the one w/ the batteries). But I'm just kinda leary about ballast that I have to haul around when trailering the boat... (not that it's a big deal going under 10 miles to the launch)

The issue with ballast other than water ballast is that in the event that you were to ever overload your boat and swamp it, water ballast will not continue to drive your boat to rest on the bottom, non water ballast such as these cement bags or weights for working out will.

trayson
05-28-2013, 06:42 PM
The issue with ballast other than water ballast is that in the event that you were to ever overload your boat and swamp it, water ballast will not continue to drive your boat to rest on the bottom, non water ballast such as these cement bags or weights for working out will.

Yeah, I agree. While non-water ballast is "cheap and easy", in the event that something bad happened, the price of water ballast gets surprisingly cheap when compared to the cost of sinking the boat!!

kvand347
05-28-2013, 09:27 PM
Trayson--can you pull that bag to the side for me and take some pics of what the PO did to the supports under the bench seat? Mine have framing under each cross bar so that my bench has 3 separate storage compartments.

trayson
05-28-2013, 10:08 PM
Trayson--can you pull that bag to the side for me and take some pics of what the PO did to the supports under the bench seat? Mine have framing under each cross bar so that my bench has 3 separate storage compartments.

I asked the Prev owner about that. He said they were more 'dividers' than supports. IIRC, he said he cut them w/ a razor knife and that they weren't structural. With them gone there has been zero issue w/ passengers sitting on any of the rear cushions.

kvand347
05-28-2013, 10:16 PM
Gotcha. I don't think they are structural either as much as they are a divider. I'm not so sure they are attached at the top. I'm just worried about leaving a sharp edge that will cut my ballast bag.

2500HD
05-29-2013, 09:32 AM
You will be able to surf with that much weight but the wave won't be great. In order to get a good wave from these inboards you need a lot more weight than you would expect. One thing i'm about to start messing around with is a surfgate or wave shaping device. I built this one for testing last monday, but the weather wasn't good enough to go out and try it. hopefully by this weekend i can try it.http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/2500hd1/IMAG0289_zps12b87fcd.jpg

wotan2525
05-29-2013, 10:36 AM
I'm curious to see how that holds up. How does it attach to the swim deck?

trayson
05-29-2013, 11:01 AM
Interesting concept. please keep us updated.

2500HD
05-29-2013, 11:05 AM
I'm curious to see how that holds up. How does it attach to the swim deck?
For testing i'll just use a strap from the boats tie down to the back of the surfgate, water pressure should hold it tight against the swimdeck and the strap should hopefully keep it from sliding off the deck. If it works good enough i'll use 2 ram mounts to attach it to the bottom of the swim deck, that way i can easily switch it from side to side.

2500HD
05-29-2013, 11:08 AM
It's snowing right now and that isn't helping!

Okie Boarder
05-29-2013, 12:51 PM
We have bags in our ski locker and under the rear seat like you. I usually fill them about half way and then I use the Fly High 750# bag on the floor next to the engine on the surf side. I have a 350# bag down in the bilge area under the cooler that I usually keep full, then we experiment from there. I've put as much as two more 350# bags in the back corner of the surf side and a 350# on the surf side in the bow.

trayson
05-29-2013, 06:34 PM
Cool. Thanks everyone for the advice. I'm going to start with making sure the basics are covered.

Like I said, I already have the single bag under the rear seats and the Ballast Puppy pump. So, I'll add to that a bag in the rear locker and connect that to my Ballast Puppy pump. I'll use an over the side Tsunami pump to fill a big bag beside the engine and the smaller bag that's in the front locker/cooler at the rear of the playpen.

I just put in an order to Wakemakers.com (http://www.wakemakers.com/) after talking to Spencer. Turns out he's local to me and lives under an hour away. Great company to deal with!

http://www.wakemakers.com/media/utilities/wakemakers-logo.jpg

I ordered:

Fly High Pro X Series Tube Sac (ski locker 62x16x10)
Fly High Pro X-Series fat sac (50x20x20)
Flow Rite quick release connector
Fly High 3/4" threaded quick release adapter
New Premium Green impeller for the Ballast Puppy pump (I think my current impeller is wearing out and leaking)
Stainless Steel Clamps
3/4" Black Ballast Hose


And I went to the hardware store and picked up:

3/4" barbed T Fitting
3/4" brass Ball Valve
two 3/4" threaded barbed fittings to attach to the above valve


https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-GNZwVfOlrMc/UaZ6vqx6EbI/AAAAAAAAOC4/JIXgEffoocY/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

quick release fittings:
http://www.wakemakers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/400x400/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/l/fly_high_fitting_w740_3.jpg
http://www.wakemakers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/400x400/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/l/fly_high_fitting_w736.jpg

2500HD
05-29-2013, 08:36 PM
My buddies have a Moomba and they upgraded through wakemakers. Now it's just a matter of playing around with bag locations.

trayson
06-01-2013, 12:39 AM
Okay, so I went out today and had a full tank of gas and the under the seat bag full. I had a 145 pound driver, a buddy that was 235 in the passenger seat, and another buddy that was probably 280 sitting in the port rear corner. I tried surfing between 9.5 and 11 mph. I had to use the rope the whole time. BUT, what I found interesting is that the rear corner was just about at the rub rail when we were underway. So, I'm wondering what would happen if we added more ballast??? I certainly wouldn't want to sink the rub rail much more. *scary*

I didn't have the small front bag filled that would go in the cooler/locker at the rear of the playpen though...

Thoughts??

Jetlink
06-01-2013, 10:59 AM
Add ballast to the bow on the surf side so you can start to create a pocket. The pocket is what will allow you to surf without the rope.

2500HD
06-01-2013, 12:04 PM
Add ballast to the bow on the surf side so you can start to create a pocket. The pocket is what will allow you to surf without the rope.
I agree, when you have all the weight in the rear you get a very steep but short wave(small pocket). Adding weight to the bow will lengthen the wave and make it slightly less steep(longer pocket).

trayson
06-01-2013, 11:52 PM
That makes a lot of sense. Sounds like I'll have some trial and error to dial it in when my ballast shows up. I can't wait. Right now I'm 100% on the rope with my lack of surf wake. My left arm is so sore!

2500HD
06-02-2013, 05:29 PM
http://i1280.photobucket.com/albums/a494/2500hd1/IMAG0298_zpsc769491f.jpg
the picture doesn't do the wave justice

trayson
06-03-2013, 01:46 PM
Yeah, I am following ask the diy surf gate stuff. Probably going to let it develop some before I jump onboard. With a fiberglass swim platform with the metal rail, a quick diy attachment wouldn't be quite so easy as those of you with Teak...

wotan2525
06-03-2013, 03:37 PM
Also -- do you know how to surf? It took me almost an entire season of blaming my wake and then I finally realized I just didn't know how to "catch" the wave. It's hard for beginners!!

trayson
06-03-2013, 03:59 PM
Also -- do you know how to surf? It took me almost an entire season of blaming my wake and then I finally realized I just didn't know how to "catch" the wave. It's hard for beginners!!

Well, I wouldn't say I'm spectacular, but I've surfed a handful of times. Obviously, my experiences where I would ride the wake were on sweet v-drive boats. I learned behind a b52 v3. And a couple weeks ago I demo'd a couple boards behind a loaded g23. Talk about a dream wake.

But then again, maybe if I can only ride fantastic boat wakes w/o the rope, then maybe I do suck!

trayson
06-09-2013, 08:20 PM
Played some more with my setup. Tried speeds around 11.

I put the tube sack behind the engine.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ANnEtafKgug/UbUX6Pv0klI/AAAAAAAAOE8/nJhgVV97ysc/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg i still had the sack under the rear seat and the big 20*20*50 beside the dog house.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-KDTG23eg4I0/UbUFMLOf9xI/AAAAAAAAOEs/I6dxdTohbV0/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

Had this bag in the cooler.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QtmgS-9a3jk/UbUFJn2r6CI/AAAAAAAAOEk/PQM43nGR8jI/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

Can't really see in the picture, but the water line at rest was 1/2 way between the swim platform and the rub rail on the rear corner.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-Ryg_QoVaiso/UbUFGo-8r5I/AAAAAAAAOEc/0Tmv-bHGnwU/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg
I am hoping to get some action shots soon from a friend that was in the boat.

Adding more weight and lengthening out the pocket. It also helped when I actually dropped back far enough to finally get in the p pocket. I am thinking that maybe my board its making it harder on me... I am riding an older 4 '9 " broadcast that I got cheap on craigslist. At 165, maybe a bit longer board wouldn't hurt. I do have to fight burying the nose with this one...

2500HD
06-09-2013, 08:55 PM
looks like your getting there. I think the board is probably ok, i ride a 5 foot cwb ride and i'm 200lbs. It's probably just a matter of time on the board and foot placement. You may want to try the weight all on one side versus straight across. You can do this by draping a bag up the seat and onto the sundeck ski locker.

trayson
06-09-2013, 09:46 PM
looks like your getting there. I think the board is probably ok, i ride a 5 foot cwb ride and i'm 200lbs. It's probably just a matter of time on the board and foot placement. You may want to try the weight all on one side versus straight across. You can do this by draping a bag up the seat and onto the sundeck ski locker.

Yeah, definitely trial and error. But I was sure stoked when I was able to catch the wave and ride it some w/o being pulled by the rope.

trayson
06-09-2013, 09:51 PM
Trayson--can you pull that bag to the side for me and take some pics of what the PO did to the supports under the bench seat? Mine have framing under each cross bar so that my bench has 3 separate storage compartments.

Kevin, I finally got you that pic of the removal of the dividers on the rear seat.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-_L4yNvfCpC4/UbUv82v1ONI/AAAAAAAAOFs/w8oifLCLBRY/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-8gOKE1e-5zY/UbUwHJ0KUoI/AAAAAAAAOHU/iOw05AY4904/s800/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

2500HD
06-09-2013, 09:54 PM
Yeah, definitely trial and error. But I was sure stoked when I was able to catch the wave and ride it some w/o being pulled by the rope.
Fun ain't it!

trayson
06-09-2013, 10:39 PM
Fun ain't it!

I love it. I'm hooked for sure. I figure that I've got around 1,200 to 1,400 pounds in water ballast. And it made the wife happy to know that she was integral (driving) to me having a blast. And it's spectacular to have an on the water activity that you can get away with doing when the water isn't "wakeboard perfect". This morning, I found some good, smooth water and did a wakeboard session. Then we cruised around and window shopped at all the local houseboats... Then, why not get some surf in.

I've REALLY got to get the quick connects dialed in. Screwing my pump onto the bags is annoying. And really the time it took to fill and drain the bags was no biggie for my wife and our friends--as they didn't even get in the water, so float time is fun time for them.

trayson
06-10-2013, 01:39 AM
best pic of today's surf wake...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vVu9aVJX9gI/UbVm7tpng0I/AAAAAAAAOIs/1G9U41Mica4/s800/975193_10101351336737232_2038531666_n.jpg

Oh, got another:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-nAGkaiBWqvY/UbVp8H15SWI/AAAAAAAAOK4/blkE7sXNFXU/s800/974895_10101351336597512_2119799693_n.jpg

trayson
06-28-2013, 02:27 AM
Went out today with a new wakesurf board. I threw down and bought a Liquid Force Fish 5'6. Way easier to ride than the 4'9 broadcast. I was able to ride with slack in the rope the vast majority of a long pull. I am still getting used to it all and the balance and what not. I would find that I could ride with slack most the time and would just need that little nudge as I found myself drifting backwards...
Didn't get any pics, My wife was driving and we had our 7 year old on the flag, and a buddy was with us but had his hands full with his 2 year old. The boat seemed a LOT smaller with 3 adults, and the two kids + the two ballast bags on the floor!

Oh, I fogot to mention: I ordered a handful of new fittings from Wakemakers.com so that I have the fly high quick releases on both sides of my over the side pump. I also retrofitted the waterbed style fittings on my front cooler bag to be a fly high quick release and a fly high screw plug (for venting air easier). I tell ya, having the fly high quick fittings on all 3 of my bags is a huge step in the right direction (my 4th bag is hard plumbed. I can see what this is a really nice feature, even if the pump is only 1/2 the speed of my over the side pump. It's pretty awesome to hit the switch with no messing around with anything!

Maybe someday I'll add more pump capacity for the hard plumbed system... But in the mean time, it's nice to have the fly high connectors. Oh, and for what it's worth, I gave my pump a quick electrical connection (like the type you see on motorcycles to hook up battery tenders).

trayson
06-29-2013, 05:49 PM
Newest Surf Wake Pics...

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PJW8vhBKAb4/Uc9WwP8TSAI/AAAAAAAAOPs/jDTdLyPjXic/s800/IMG95201306299511251895607.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-eGMXjk7_PTU/Uc9WqNYYCDI/AAAAAAAAOPU/kSUkUHm0PWU/s800/IMG95201306299510321195891.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F7rDW7wbd_A/Uc9WsA-PcKI/AAAAAAAAOPc/7Criuztt7ew/s800/IMG95201306299511375495545.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-FikpE6M4bzk/Uc9WuYsWQrI/AAAAAAAAOPk/oC7yo6v5OVw/s800/IMG95201306299510321895570.jpg

James
07-02-2013, 10:06 PM
The wave looks pretty good. In my 2000 launch I run at 10 mph with 400 hard tank under rear seat, 350 in back locker, 750 surf side floor, 750 half on other bag half in back seat, and 550 in the bow on surf side. My wave is huge and my rub rail sometimes is an inch or so from waterline.

trayson
07-03-2013, 01:26 AM
The wave looks pretty good. In my 2000 launch I run at 10 mph with 400 hard tank under rear seat, 350 in back locker, 750 surf side floor, 750 half on other bag half in back seat, and 550 in the bow on surf side. My wave is huge and my rub rail sometimes is an inch or so from waterline.

Damn that's a lot of weight. I was able to get a good enough wave tonight without using all my bags. Just the 750 on the surf side and 250 under the rear seat, but had 6 adults and 1 kid in the boat. I was able to freeride for my longest stretch ever. Good times! I was most def sinking my rub rail.

villain
07-03-2013, 08:27 AM
nice! heading out tonight (if i get off at a decent time) sometimes being a boat mechanic sucks.

i will be taking out an Enzo sack (1450), 1 1200, 2 600's, 2 550's, and 2 450's. our service rider has a 600 triangle bow sack that is giving me, might have that if he remembers that. this should be enough to find the right combo for the old girl.

villain
07-03-2013, 08:32 AM
also, to help with push, turn your hips and shoulders towards the wave. i had the same problem behind any boat then i went out with the brigade wake surf guys from work and bam! it works like magic!!

trayson
07-03-2013, 11:18 AM
also, to help with push, turn your hips and shoulders towards the wave. i had the same problem behind any boat then i went out with the brigade wake surf guys from work and bam! it works like magic!!

Yeah, I read a thread where they were giving my buddy pointers and watched a 101 video on Wake9. It made all the difference. It's actually quite similar to riding snowboard toeside on a pow day on the steeps.

Yesterday I was able to get pretty consistent 30 to 60 second freerides and felt a TON more comfortable. So much stoke!

And we were actually weighted kinda low yesterday. 250 under the rear seat and 750 on the surf side beside the doghouse. BUT, we had about 950 in "human ballast" on the boat, so it allowed us to cheat with the sacks.

My first legitimate length freeride:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnEAgFqSuAY

End of the night:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4xUIP1U3z4

trayson
07-24-2013, 12:30 AM
Trayson--can you pull that bag to the side for me and take some pics of what the PO did to the supports under the bench seat? Mine have framing under each cross bar so that my bench has 3 separate storage compartments.

Kev, where are you putting your sacks again?


We have bags in our ski locker and under the rear seat like you. I usually fill them about half way and then I use the Fly High 750# bag on the floor next to the engine on the surf side. I have a 350# bag down in the bilge area under the cooler that I usually keep full, then we experiment from there. I've put as much as two more 350# bags in the back corner of the surf side and a 350# on the surf side in the bow.

This may be a dumb question, but how do you get a bag under the cooler? I have no clue how to access the bilge area under the storage lockers. And how would you fill/empty it?

trayson
08-06-2013, 05:42 PM
Another surf wave pic. I've been finding that it's enough to go ropeless, but I really have to lean forward and put a lot of weight on my front foot.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-B37DQHWAx_4/UgFsITvGuuI/AAAAAAAAOpQ/TSw4hvc1Rpw/s800/.facebook_531937589.jpg

I talked to one of the guys at Wakemakers last night and we're going to try another suggestion. I am going to put my Tube Sack on the floor, between the gunwale and the doghouse, and as far back against the rear seat riser as possible. Then I am going to put the fly high 750 fat sac on top of it, and have it so it's sitting in the rear seat. Because the tube sac has its fill ports on the one end, I will be able to stagger them pretty easily.
http://www.wakemakers.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/400x400/5e06319eda06f020e43594a9c230972d/f/l/fly_high_pro_x_series_tube_sac_w704.jpg

Then we can play around with having a person sit in the rear center vs. the observer seat. Likewise we can play with the bag that usually fills the cooler being on the center rear floor, vs. in the cooler.

I'm also curious, how much do you guys porpoise when you're at surf speeds? My wife drives and she has to stand to see over the bow. When I drive I put my a$$ on the top of the seat back to see. I've been running the wake plate all the way up, so I'm not surprised that I'm driving a wheelie. Just curious if this is normal.

2500HD
08-06-2013, 08:26 PM
The wheelie is fairly normal. Out of curiosity, what is your swim platform doing to your wave. Can you tell if it's dragging in the water much? It could be squashing the wave.

trayson
08-06-2013, 11:21 PM
The wheelie is fairly normal. Out of curiosity, what is your swim platform doing to your wave. Can you tell if it's dragging in the water much? It could be squashing the wave.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-RNMWp2rH2Yg/UVO5aiq_FRI/AAAAAAAANuQ/y-WPVyGAmCc/s800/photo.jpg

Yes, the platform is definitely dragging. If you look at the picture above, take the point on the platform that is halfway along the depth of the platform on the outside surf edge and draw a line at a 45 degree angle toward the Stern of the platform. That's where the platform is cutting into the wake. And you know I have a big lip on my platform...

We have been looking into making a surf platform, but the outside two of the three metal braces Are really close to the outside edges of the platform, so it would be tough to cut much down on the sides if I did make a custom platform.

I will draw a picture later...

trayson
08-07-2013, 11:15 AM
Okay, here's a graphic. The blue line is about where the wake is on the swim platform. And unfortunately the yellow line is where the platform brackets are, so it would make it difficult to put a smaller platform on. Not sure what the solution is for this platform... At the minimum, something with a smooth bottom even if I can't cut the width as much as I'd like...

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-LbJS8IaIlTQ/UgJilzfr0XI/AAAAAAAAOps/8yve-EMlhTg/s800/photo.jpg

twisterad3
08-07-2013, 11:45 AM
I have a 90 Sunsport which has a better wake than the pervious boats I've surfed behind. One was a 96 Ski Nautique (I prefer that boat for wake board wake) and the other was a 01 Sanger v210.
I just have 2 350# bags currently that are not hidden. :-( We had 2 people in the boat the other day with 1/4 tank of gas, I stuck one bag on the floor next to the motor, the other bag on the rear seat. That seemed to create a decent wake that I could surf about 6feet behind the platform.
Later that week, I had 6 people on the boat, used 1 350# bag on the floor parallel to the seats.
I attached a photo taken from our time lapse Contour Plus. Since it's mounted on the windshield, it doesn't advertise the best wake shape, but it at least illustrates the point. :-D
12880

trayson
08-07-2013, 11:57 AM
I have a 90 Sunsport which has a better wake than the pervious boats I've surfed behind. One was a 96 Ski Nautique (I prefer that boat for wake board wake) and the other was a 01 Sanger v210.
I just have 2 350# bags currently that are not hidden. :-( We had 2 people in the boat the other day with 1/4 tank of gas, I stuck one bag on the floor next to the motor, the other bag on the rear seat. That seemed to create a decent wake that I could surf about 6feet behind the platform.
Later that week, I had 6 people on the boat, used 1 350# bag on the floor parallel to the seats.
I attached a photo taken from our time lapse Contour Plus. Since it's mounted on the windshield, it doesn't advertise the best wake shape, but it at least illustrates the point. :-D
12880

Thanks. It's always good to hear what others are doing and what's working for them. We'll be going out tonight and reconfiguring our bag setup. We'll also have 2 more people than normal, so I'm sure it'll be better regardless of how we configure things.

trayson
08-07-2013, 01:04 PM
More pics from this weekend... We'll see how much improvement we can get with a reconfiguration of the ballast bags.

This one is where I almost lost the wave but was able to recover. But I like the pic because it shows the wave well.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-idFkrueGCn8/UgJ9eIAaoVI/AAAAAAAAOsM/Q85j_-jOHmk/s800/2013-08-04_IMG_5858.jpg

A whole bunch more surf wave pics:
https://picasaweb.google.com/100674121655556926719/SurfWaves?authuser=0&authkey=Gv1sRgCLnl-drVkL_aUQ&feat=directlink

This is a good one too. It's me falling off the back of the pocket--I wasn't able to recover. But it's a good look at what I've been riding. I did find that smoother water tend to = more push. Do you all find that to be true?
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-rHWRtaQ9BqE/UgJ9gzGQJAI/AAAAAAAAOs4/GFRsbtFC4MY/s800/2013-08-04_IMG_5864.jpg

2500HD
08-08-2013, 09:25 AM
Smooth water does make a big difference. I've been toying with the idea of cutting and rewelding my platform brackets on an angle so i could cut my swim deck on an angle.

wotan2525
08-08-2013, 10:16 AM
You guys should also know that a full tank of gas makes a big difference. An extra 30gallons is 250lbs but it's also as far back in the boat as possible. This is why I always keep the gas tank and custom cooler as full as possible. ;)

trayson
08-08-2013, 11:21 AM
You guys should also know that a full tank of gas makes a big difference. An extra 30gallons is 250lbs but it's also as far back in the boat as possible. This is why I always keep the gas tank and custom cooler as full as possible. ;)

Yeah, I'm SURE that the only reason to keep that cooler full is because of the surf wake! ROFL!!!

Here's a couple of vids to show what 1,100 lengthwise of the surf side + 250 under the rear seat + 4 passengers got me. I'm pretty happy.

This one has a couple shots down to see what's happening with the platform. (although you can see it better with the vid I took of the boat).
http://contour.com/videos/watch/tray-surf-3-on-8-7-13

I was pretty happy to see how the surf wake turned out with the reconfig:
http://contour.com/videos/watch/tray-surf-1-on-8-7-13

And if you didn't see it, a vid of the boat filmed by me surfing:
http://contour.com/stories/supra-sunsport-doing-surf-duty

wotan2525
08-08-2013, 11:37 AM
That looks pretty good! Any chance there are some shallow spots there? When my wave starts to wash like that it means that it's less than ~8ft deep.

Also -- We'd get a ticket in a hot minute if we were sitting on the sun pad. Our river is heavily patrolled and they never have anything better to do than pull me over for a "safety check."

trayson
08-08-2013, 11:50 AM
That looks pretty good! Any chance there are some shallow spots there? When my wave starts to wash like that it means that it's less than ~8ft deep.

Also -- We'd get a ticket in a hot minute if we were sitting on the sun pad. Our river is heavily patrolled and they never have anything better to do than pull me over for a "safety check."

Ours isn't quite as heavily patrolled and we were basically out on that section by ourselves. Water was so smooth (for a river)! But yeah, I'm kind of doing a *facepalm* because he was doing that and it makes me nervous to post that up. In OR, you can do that if you're under 5mph or if you have "adequate railing". (I hadn't read the specifics of the regulation until today, so I really didn't know about the legality, but kinda figured it wasn't really that smart). Somehow I don't think they would consider my railings "adequate". Doh!

As far as the depth, probably did get into some sections like that. I'm still waiting on a o-ring to finish the installation of my in hull transducer. But it's quite common for it to be 15 feet or less. I'm sure we'll probably go EEK when we get the depth gauge working and get a real idea of what we've been riding in!

Okie Boarder
08-09-2013, 04:07 PM
This may be a dumb question, but how do you get a bag under the cooler? I have no clue how to access the bilge area under the storage lockers. And how would you fill/empty it?

When I did my rebuild, I opened it up under there instead of it being closed in and filled with foam. I also put a 20" square hatch in the floor right in front of the motor. I can literally crawl down inside the bilge under the cooler. It's enough room to hold a 500# bag if I got one big enough to fill the entire space under there.

trayson
08-09-2013, 04:32 PM
When I did my rebuild, I opened it up under there instead of it being closed in and filled with foam. I also put a 20" square hatch in the floor right in front of the motor. I can literally crawl down inside the bilge under the cooler. It's enough room to hold a 500# bag if I got one big enough to fill the entire space under there.
It's a supra with a cuddy!

Sirgonz
08-09-2013, 05:54 PM
Ours isn't quite as heavily patrolled and we were basically out on that section by ourselves. Water was so smooth (for a river)! But yeah, I'm kind of doing a *facepalm* because he was doing that and it makes me nervous to post that up. In OR, you can do that if you're under 5mph or if you have "adequate railing". (I hadn't read the specifics of the regulation until today, so I really didn't know about the legality, but kinda figured it wasn't really that smart). Somehow I don't think they would consider my railings "adequate". Doh!

As far as the depth, probably did get into some sections like that. I'm still waiting on a o-ring to finish the installation of my in hull transducer. But it's quite common for it to be 15 feet or less. I'm sure we'll probably go EEK when we get the depth gauge working and get a real idea of what we've been riding in!

WOW my only bad prop strike was up on your side of the river ... there are some weird and shallow areas all over up there....been scared to go back because this boats prop and shaft would cost a lot more then my mercruzer one did!

trayson
08-19-2013, 04:29 PM
That looks pretty good! Any chance there are some shallow spots there? When my wave starts to wash like that it means that it's less than ~8ft deep.
."

So, I got the depth gauge installed and YES, if we drop below 10 feet deep I can tell it affects my wave. basically the shallower water makes the wave break and get all foamy and smaller. Yuck.

Here are some new pics of the wave with just the 3 sacks (one under seat and the other two doubled up on the port side.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-PgG7X0Lu2fY/UhJ_9uZriPI/AAAAAAAAOzs/_BY_vXNEiZA/s800/WP_20130817_020.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-6s9gTZBxVvk/UhJ_9risM5I/AAAAAAAAOzw/ztH-qyV8uSk/s800/WP_20130817_021.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-1ltWQCn9CK8/UhJ_9qFHANI/AAAAAAAAOzo/G5iOcLQdQVA/s800/WP_20130817_023.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-5DYAMxDmLYo/UhJ_-e_ih3I/AAAAAAAAOz0/XijwOB557mA/s800/WP_20130817_024.jpg

If we had relatively smooth water and over 10 feet of depth, I could easily freeride while air guitaring to Van Halen's Hot for Teacher on the new tower speakers!

trayson
08-19-2013, 04:31 PM
And the other morning when it was just me and my buddy with my 7 year old flagging, we added the small bag to the rear center.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-ej3pUaJ5XHo/UhIv2zNPFXI/AAAAAAAAOyA/0UFn-yKXIjY/s800/20130816_111151.jpg

And NO bow weight. It kills my push. I had one evening where we had 3 little kids (under 200 pounds) in the bow and it killed my wave to the point where I couldn't freeride).

villain
08-19-2013, 04:36 PM
What sacs you run now? That looks like a ton of water.

trayson
08-19-2013, 04:57 PM
What sacs you run now? That looks like a ton of water.

370 pound tube sack on the port floor.
750 sack on top of that.
200 - 250 under rear seat.
Option for another 150 of needed rear center.

villain
08-19-2013, 05:37 PM
Imma have to play with my new wake plate cause I usually use a 450 starboard side, 1450 port side, 450 ski locker, 450 across the bow, and how ever much I can fill right behind the motor. Wave is huge, but short. I'm hoping that the new plate will help that out.

wotan2525
08-20-2013, 10:19 AM
Trayson -- Looks awesome! I also tell people.... just add more weight! ;)

Where's your wakeplate? If you haven't messed with it, moving it down will lengthen that wave a little bit and still give you good push.

trayson
08-20-2013, 11:12 AM
Trayson -- Looks awesome! I also tell people.... just add more weight! ;)

Where's your wakeplate? If you haven't messed with it, moving it down will lengthen that wave a little bit and still give you good push.

I haven't touched it. It's all the way up... What do you suggest? Line an inch down or something?

wotan2525
08-20-2013, 02:38 PM
I run mine all the way down. It kills your wakeboard wake but makes the surf wave awesome!

trayson
08-20-2013, 08:48 PM
New surf wake in action...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozrMElT46CY&feature=youtu.be

villain
08-20-2013, 10:26 PM
Looks good man! Wish I had the free time to play on the water lately. Been busier than a one legged man In a butt kicking contest the last month!

I'm planning a weekend with the wife to come check out the Portland area mid next month. You mind maybe showin us around one day? Planning on being in town the 14-16.

Looking for reasons why that area is a good place to move to in a year or so.

trayson
08-21-2013, 04:02 PM
Looks good man! Wish I had the free time to play on the water lately. Been busier than a one legged man In a butt kicking contest the last month!

I'm planning a weekend with the wife to come check out the Portland area mid next month. You mind maybe showin us around one day? Planning on being in town the 14-16.

Looking for reasons why that area is a good place to move to in a year or so.

I am sure we could carve out some time. What types of things would peak your interest? Cool restaurants? Happy hour spots? Brew pubs? Local sites and stuff?

villain
08-21-2013, 06:22 PM
She is into broadway type stuff. And i usually enjoy shows with her. We both long board allot, me more than her. Sometimes 50 miles a weekend. love the water sometimes I think we do more than we should, authentic food, local gems most tourists and even some residents don't know of. Me and my buddy ( if he comes) like micro brews and small pubs.
Just trying to get a feel for new places to live.
We have spent some time on the delta in Cali, but its just to damn big. Thinking Portland area, moving more south, or just picking up and moving to Florida

That would be awesome if you could take some time for us. Thanks in advance!

trayson
08-21-2013, 06:37 PM
She is into broadway type stuff. And i usually enjoy shows with her. We both long board allot, me more than her. Sometimes 50 miles a weekend. love the water sometimes I think we do more than we should, authentic food, local gems most tourists and even some residents don't know of. Me and my buddy ( if he comes) like micro brews and small pubs.
Just trying to get a feel for new places to live.
We have spent some time on the delta in Cali, but its just to damn big. Thinking Portland area, moving more south, or just picking up and moving to Florida

That would be awesome if you could take some time for us. Thanks in advance!

You should check out this place. It's about 100 miles from here, and it's literally right off the gorge. you'd pass within a couple miles of it as you go on I-84. It's Called Maryhill Loops Road and it's a private road owned by a museum. I rent it with my BMW club each year. It's the rage for longboarders... It's just off the junction of Hwy 97.
https://www.google.com/search?q=maryhill+loops+road+longboarding&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=p0AVUsDWD8e-2wXMi4DwCA&sqi=2&ved=0CEIQsAQ&biw=1718&bih=775

We have season tickets to the Portland Broadway series. Bummer you'll have just missed the run of Chicago. As a season ticket holder I can get sweet deals on extra seats. We'll be seeing it on Sept 3rd opening night.

villain
08-21-2013, 06:46 PM
Those guys are crazy!! I'm a flat lander.

trayson
08-29-2013, 12:52 AM
Thanks for all the help everyone. I feel like we're doing well as far as weight. I can pretty much ride my 5'6 fish as long as I want and absorb speed fluctuations from my (im)Perfect Pass...

pics from tonight...

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-lvavHAYiw0Q/Uh7RMxYivYI/AAAAAAAAO3o/gBYZ1p_5wEY/s800/20130828_190043.jpg

Picture of how slammed the boat was at rest... (look at the "SUPRA" letters in my sig pic, and then compare to what you can see of them in this:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z0NufdGQTYE/Uh7RL7aQajI/AAAAAAAAO3g/FRfaZtY_GL8/s800/20130828_190105.jpg

And here's my buddy freeriding... all 235 pounds of him. I was driving and my wife and he son were at the stern. no bow weight... Yeah, he's REALLY forward on the board, but he's riding it. FWIW my (im)Perfect Pass wasn't being very cooperative. It was having a tough time keeping a stable speed for us despite the SMOOOOOOOOOTH water.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-aWmXIN1UghE/Uh7SYsT0NAI/AAAAAAAAO34/C0Uewh5evmE/s800/20130828_195045.jpg

kvand347
08-31-2013, 09:27 PM
It really, really, really pains me to say this...but...you are a WAY better surfer than myself. Did I mention it really pains me to say that? ;)

Keep it up buddy! Super jealous of all the time you get to practice. I boat a lot (2-3 times a week in the summer) but only have one, yep, one surf session this year.

I will now get offline and cry...

trayson
08-31-2013, 09:42 PM
It really, really, really pains me to say this...but...you are a WAY better surfer than myself. Did I mention it really pains me to say that? ;)

Keep it up buddy! Super jealous of all the time you get to practice. I boat a lot (2-3 times a week in the summer) but only have one, yep, one surf session this year.

I will now get offline and cry...

What's stopping you? Is it the time it takes to sack the boat out? I uesd to get some groans from the wife about the fill/empty ballast hassle, but then she tried surfing and got up on the board and since then she's been a lot more "pro surf time". hehehe.

typical weekend day for us is to launch at 8:30am. Then a couple of short wakeboard sets. Then load up the sacks and surf it up until we're somewhat satisfied. Today we were off the water at 1pm and had 3 of us wakeboard, 3 of us surf, and at the beginning of the day I tried and tried and tried to remember how the hell to get up on a slalom (I got out of the water one time, but fell over quick). Damn it sucks to try and remember how to slalom after like 10 years!!!! (I think my fail was that I wasn't leaning back enough). It REALLY pains the wife to have me try to ski because I don't take to it as naturally as a board sport.

BTW, wakeboarding for many, many years and snowboarding since I got out of college has helped the surf a LOT!

kvand347
09-02-2013, 03:26 PM
What's stopping you? Is it the time it takes to sack the boat out? I uesd to get some groans from the wife about the fill/empty ballast hassle, but then she tried surfing and got up on the board and since then she's been a lot more "pro surf time". hehehe.

typical weekend day for us is to launch at 8:30am. Then a couple of short wakeboard sets. Then load up the sacks and surf it up until we're somewhat satisfied. Today we were off the water at 1pm and had 3 of us wakeboard, 3 of us surf, and at the beginning of the day I tried and tried and tried to remember how the hell to get up on a slalom (I got out of the water one time, but fell over quick). Damn it sucks to try and remember how to slalom after like 10 years!!!! (I think my fail was that I wasn't leaning back enough). It REALLY pains the wife to have me try to ski because I don't take to it as naturally as a board sport.

BTW, wakeboarding for many, many years and snowboarding since I got out of college has helped the surf a LOT!

Believe it or not it's my wife and kids that is stopping me. My wife doesn't care for boating, but will go occasionally if I ask her to. My kids just want to play on the beach or look for frogs. Everyone hates when dad wants to wakeboard or surf! :(

Most of my friends are busy with their family that they can't get out for a "boys day out." Such is the life of mid-thirties with wife/kids and trying to re-live our care-free twenties!

villain
09-02-2013, 04:39 PM
Just find new friends with similar interests. That's what I did. A buddy of mine actually left his gf of 2 years because she hated the water. His new girlfriend is way better. She actually surfs. Haha! It's all about priorities man. Lol

trayson
09-03-2013, 12:45 AM
I guess I should count myself lucky. I have a wife that LOVES the boat. She got stitches in her foot and can't get in the water, but still is with me EVERY trip and is happy to drive a ton. (she actually enjoys driving!!) Yes, PP is a factor in that! Although I found out yesterday that she was actually pulling back the throttle if I started to fall off the surf wave to "catch" me and let me catch up a little as I pumped the board. I totally thought all those saves were "all me" and she humbled me and told me that she saved me a handful of times. I'm actually starting to think that she's getting to be a better surf driver than me!

She also got way more passionate about boating after she got up on the surf board. My son is 7, so he's down to be on the boat and is happy for whatever. (although his fav times are when we beach it and he can play in the shallow sandy spots).

We're out 3 to 4 times a week. I also found a few people off the forums and have hooked up with them when i needed a 3rd. And we have lots of friends that are down to just have boat rides. (those are great because they never take up "behind the boat" time, ROFL!!!). I have 1 buddy that is PASSIONATE about surfing and he has more enthusiasm and time than money, so he makes up for gas contributions by putting in quite a few hours helping me wrench on the boat.

I'll make you really jealous now:
Yesterday we were launching at 8:30 am. We had SMOOTH water and multiple wake/surf sets for 3 guys until we felt satisfied (and hungry) at 2pm. Then we cruised over to one of the guy's place that lives on a houseboat, picked up 2 more ladies, and we all went via boat to a floating restaurant and had happy hour food/drinks on the water. Dropped 1/2 our crew back at the houseboat and then cruised back to the launch pulling out at 6pm. Longest day on the water so far, and fantastic except having the gas pump shut off at $99 and realizing that I burned all that and more in a DAY. :-/

On the flip side, last weekend, we had to shut off the alarm and sleep in on Sunday when we simply couldn't find a 3rd. It's only happened to us a few times this season, but when it does, it's sad...

kvand347
09-03-2013, 09:18 PM
Stop it!!! Now you're just gloating! :p

No need to find new friends Villain. I've got plenty of water bug friends. Getting their schedule and my schedule to align is the tricky part!

villain
09-03-2013, 09:39 PM
I agree kvand. But I lost a couple of friends because I have a boat and ask for help with gas from the people who ride. I ask for a portion of the gas you burn behind my boat after you ate my food and drank my beer and suddenly I'm the asshole?? Don't think so. I do have a handful of friends that like to ride, but schedules suck to align sometimes. Like this weekend my normal riding buddie is going to be In Orlando for surf expo promoting his surf brand Agenda. So I'm thinking I might just take the wife and son. Should make for a lot of riding this weekend.

phathom
09-04-2013, 02:50 PM
Believe it or not it's my wife and kids that is stopping me. My wife doesn't care for boating, but will go occasionally if I ask her to. My kids just want to play on the beach or look for frogs. Everyone hates when dad wants to wakeboard or surf! :(

Most of my friends are busy with their family that they can't get out for a "boys day out." Such is the life of mid-thirties with wife/kids and trying to re-live our care-free twenties!
I know how that is. I think my wife has gone out with us a whole 1 time, ever. I bring my son along whenever he's asking for it and he's not too grumpy. I'm just glad I have a friend who goes out all the time and takes me with him. In my late 20s with a 2 year old and one on the way, the wife hate's when I go out because she's left home alone or with our son, but refuses to go out with us because then she'll have to watch our son (like she's already doing at home). Lot of arguments about me going to do what I love instead of sitting around the house not doing a lot, but it works itself out. Can't wait until I can afford a boat and my 2 kids are old enough to enjoy playing behind the boat, then she'll kinda be forced to come or not have family time. Our son talks about the boat all the time. I think 2 kids and your husband saying they want to go out is good encouragement.


Just find new friends with similar interests. That's what I did. A buddy of mine actually left his gf of 2 years because she hated the water. His new girlfriend is way better. She actually surfs. Haha! It's all about priorities man. Lol
Surfing > Rest of life

I have 1 buddy that is PASSIONATE about surfing and he has more enthusiasm and time than money, so he makes up for gas contributions by putting in quite a few hours helping me wrench on the boat.
Thank you for letting me pay with wrench time. I would have to sell a kidney otherwise. btw: that fat sack has more holes to fill than a Bangkok special, will probably be ready this weekend.

kvand347
09-04-2013, 09:27 PM
Villain,

My friends are really good about gas $. Most bring their own coolers, too. Actually, the last time we were all out no one had any cash on them. I just told them to catch me next time and don't worry about it. Of course, I was a little miffed. The next day, my buddy drops off a thank you card signed by 8 people with $70 in it! Talk about some good buds!

Phathom,

I should restate my earlier post. I've had the boat out about 25 times and my wife has been out about 10. So it's not like she never goes. I just enjoy boating so much that I want to share it with her. She's been a trooper because she usually obliges without too much pressure. She surprised me twice this year asking if we could go out with some of our friends!

The bottom line is that I want to do MORE, it's just tough to get everyone on board.

villain
09-04-2013, 09:52 PM
Damn kvand, can I be friends with your friends? I still have a guy that owes me for 3 trips out. It's safe to say he isn't invited out anymore. Haha!

trayson
09-05-2013, 01:49 PM
Thank you for letting me pay with wrench time. I would have to sell a kidney otherwise.

So, last night we were under a bit of a time crunch and as BAD luck would have it, we pulled the boat out of the water and had a totally flat trailer tire.

Phathom was with us and jumped into action and basically did all the tire changing work while I used the flashlight app on my phone to give him light. He got sandy and greasy and we got the wheel changed pretty quick.

Of course I hadn't topped off the spare with air, so it was running really low. Phathom followed us to the nearest gas station and made sure we were good to go before heading home.

Good show from a riding buddy.

wotan2525
09-05-2013, 02:03 PM
Thanks for reminding me that my spare is completely flat, and the wrong size. Put it on the fix-it-list!

trayson
09-05-2013, 02:18 PM
Damn kvand, can I be friends with your friends? I still have a guy that owes me for 3 trips out. It's safe to say he isn't invited out anymore. Haha!

I think you need to get the credit card swipe app for your phone. I actually have had a coupld friends paypal me gas money after the fact. I just signed up for the paypal swipe deal (just for kicks) so if people wanna pay me money via credit card (less a 2.7% fee) I can facilitate that! hahahaha

villain
09-05-2013, 02:19 PM
The wife has it. Might steal it from her. Lol

trayson
09-11-2013, 06:41 PM
Phathom,

I should restate my earlier post. I've had the boat out about 25 times and my wife has been out about 10. So it's not like she never goes. I just enjoy boating so much that I want to share it with her. She's been a trooper because she usually obliges without too much pressure. She surprised me twice this year asking if we could go out with some of our friends!



Kevin, we were out most of the day Saturday and Sunday. Back on the river last night. The wife has "craft night" (drink wine with the girls and do creative stuff) tonight and she emailed me saying that she wishes that she was going out and playing in the water tonight! Ha!

I'm pretty spoiled. Not only is she typically down to go out, she actually enjoys driving! In fact, I think that she's getting to be a better surf driver than me!

Tonight I could have probably scrounged up some guys to go, but I got an invite from a guy on the Moomba forums to go out behind his V-drive! I'm stoked. And Friday I got an invite for a 10:30am trip to go out on a late model Malibu Wakesetter. I was kinda bummed that I had to work. I was taking off early on Friday to get my son at the airport, and then when the wife got home we'd go out as a family... So I did the only reasonable thing. I talked to the big boss at work and took all of Friday off so I could ride the Malibu during the day and my Supra for the evening! Oh yeah!

trayson
10-07-2013, 11:47 AM
Well, tried to play around with ballast some. We put on the prototype surf platform last week and it worked great to not interfere with the surf wave. so that's a win.

We had some extra bags to play with so we were rocking almost a TON of ballast. Plus an extra 200+ pound person. We had 2 boats stop by and ask if we needed help. I think they thought we were sinking!! My poor rear trunk locker did get swamped a couple times. I need to put drain holes in there now. The boat was at the rub rail at rest and the water was just flowing on top of the gunwales in the rear corner when underway. It was at the rub rail when underway all the way up to the rear tower mount. Slammin'.

Here is me with the 1-ton wave.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-J6soRkPYnM0/UlLUgXang1I/AAAAAAAAPIA/srFIwkl_KdU/s800/1006131532-00.jpg

Wall of bags:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rDpPSXx2CPM/UlLWK7qmq3I/AAAAAAAAPKw/X3PGypDkKF0/s800/20131006_155330.jpg

And one in the bow locker:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pZvB-rHyCIM/UlLWOoYyvdI/AAAAAAAAPLA/JF1lvKvSkxA/s800/20131006_155345.jpg

Honestly, there was a interesting curl with more weight and it was actually more fun for me to surf with my "standard" 1450 pounds of ballast. Go figure.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-aIY1Tv2ZteM/UlLUyJ2_d2I/AAAAAAAAPKI/edezqe1xKyE/s800/IMG_7474649406428.jpeg

villain
10-07-2013, 09:17 PM
1400#s? I run that in one sack. Lol. I think i run a 1400 Enzo. A 900 bow sack. 3 400's. and sometimes a couple 450's. still playin with the new wake plate to get it right. That will have to wait till spring tho as its cold as crap here. You definitely have a great looking wave tho!