Surf Gate Build

[CornRickey]

I've been loading my Ssv with a 750 in the rear surf side locker, GG center (1100) and another 750 on the floor on the surf side. We spent a hour moving water around anound the other day switching sides for those normal footed people. I've been followins the surfgate threads on the Malibu, Sn and Moomba sites and decided it was time!

I built one for a goofy footed set up and was amazed by its performance. It still needs some tweaking on the angle but I was able to surf the wake about double the length of pocket with no front weight and both 750s in there lockers, wakeplate up and 1mph less. The wake is not peaked and its a lot different since its so gradual and long but it was able to push me at 230. I had the angle at about 40 degrees from the transom and going to set up again at 30 trying to get the convergence a little closer to get some peak.

Anyway I was happy that it was going to work so I started today building the starboard side and took some pictures.

Basic design- 100% modular and manual with the anticipation of adding actuators down the road. The only connections is two threaded knobs on the fiberglass lip on the platform just lateral of the outer mounting brackets. Asthetics is important, the gates will fit in with the design and not extend beyond the height of the platform. All synthetic and noncorossive materials.

Update- I have since dropped the threaded knobs and added straps. I added pictures later in the thread

[CornRickey]

I'll start posting them up tomorrow

[CornRickey]

Material knotched out for the bracket and marked for the rabbit work.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_102835_zps11d41a21.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_102835_zps11d41a21.jpg.html)
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_102822_zps8aecf799.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_102822_zps8aecf799.jpg.html)
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_103703_zpsa10b3b28.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_103703_zpsa10b3b28.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

Rabbited out till it was snug, also made room for the "bump out" around the mount.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_110019_zps15120bfc.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_110019_zps15120bfc.jpg.html)
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_110937_zpsfa709519.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_110937_zpsfa709519.jpg.html)
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_110945_zps795c270f.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_110945_zps795c270f.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

Set up the rachet straps and wood contraption. The contraption is critical because when you bend the material around it bows out on the bottom decreasing its stability. Try to keep as much of the material in contact with the stern as possible. This stuff holds its heat. I let it cool for several hours with a fan and spraying it with windex to increase evaporative cooling.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_124515_zpsa720f9da.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_124515_zpsa720f9da.jpg.html)
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_124505_zps22d5f78d.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_124505_zps22d5f78d.jpg.html)

[haugy]

What is holding it in place? Please tell me it's not the swim platform.

[CornRickey]

Lateral pressure is up against the platform bracket mounted to the transom and from ta hinge assembly that goes from the gate back to the transom. The hole assembly is held in place by one threaded knob through the lower lip on the platform and into the mount that is between the platform and transom. So yes its held in place by the platform.

I ran into a issue today though. It was the first time having both installed and the surf side gate (retracted) was messing up the wake. I tried cutting the gate down with no success. If I remove it the wake is th best I've seen behind my boat. I'm going to do a little more r&d to try to get it to function without having to remove and install them when switching although it takes about 30 seconds a side but storing them woukd be a pain.

I was concerned about added pressures to the platform. Through my testing andseeing some of my very weak components first used not fail due to pressure I'm comcompletely comfortable with my set up and how it transfers the energy to the boat. I think there's no more that 100 to 150 lbs of force to th whole assembly. Additionally I have a FAE that ties in all three mounting brackets.

[CornRickey]

And how about you not respond with the sarcasm? Its not constructive.

[haugy]

What sarcasm? I was dead serious and curious about your mounting system. I had real fears that if not properly mounted you'd tear your swim platform off. That's why I asked.

[CornRickey]

I appreciate the concerns unfortunately it was lost in your wording. Now that we are past that what is your input on how I have mounted it and more importantly the effects of the wake when retracted. I can't find any differences in my design over the other gates out there other than the gate material is 1 inch thick.

[haugy]

The reason I asked is I can't really see how it's mounted. All I can see is what looks to be like it's sandwiched in between the platform and the boat. Which in my opinion would be very bad for the transom and the platform. If you've got the load distributed, then cool, but how? I can't really see from your pictures.

And now you mention it can be retracted. Now I'm really confused. So it can slide open and in? What keeps it from popping all the way out and down to the depths? Is it fixed to the platform bracket or platform mount somehow?

The only surf gate I'm actually familiar with is the malibu gate and it hinges on the transom via hydraulic actuator. So I can't relate your design to anything else.

[CornRickey]

Ill be posting more pictures that shows all of that. Its the same as the malibu stuff but without the actuator. It has a hinge assembly that when the gate is pulled out it locks it out at a set angle. It's actually a leaf support for a table that I altered. There are some lateral force to the platform when its deployed but not much compared to th force already applied to the platform from water when surfing. The net force is actually decreased in my opinion because th gate allows me to not have abiut 1500 extra pounds in the boat on one side causing the boa to list and causing the platform to further be under water.

[Jetlink]

I kind of buy your theory about the load being decreased due to the fact that this should require less ballast which will in turn not force the platform into the water as much. I'll start by saying I too am interested in how this is mounted, functions and distributes the load from a technical/engineering standpoint. My only caution is that you mentioned placing a lateral load or stress on the platform which might be more than the platform mounts were designed to withstand on a continued basis. Just my thought as of this moment.

[CornRickey]

I hear you. I was going to hold off in posting more pictures till I get my issue figured out but I'll go ahead and post up more tonight. You will see that the gate is mounted on the leading edge with two hinges and propped out with a hinge assembly. On the newest version that I don't have a picture of, I welded in a turn buckle to adjust the angle. The turnbuckle body is aluminum. This takes the most pressure by far and holds up just fine. I'm not a engineer but I believe I have a understanding of basic physics and potential. I feel pretty comfortable with this on my very expensive boat.

[CornRickey]

Cut to angle
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_130249_zps0352dc41.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_130249_zps0352dc41.jpg.html)

First hinge support block installed and beveled to a rough angle that will accomidate the gate when retracted.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_132550_zps24e01ee4.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_132550_zps24e01ee4.jpg.html)

Template for the top block. This one is a compound angle that goes around the swim step.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_132550_zps24e01ee4.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_132550_zps24e01ee4.jpg.html)

Block in place for the top hinge. This block is held on with only two screws so its a fail point.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_134754_zps1bdb931f.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_134754_zps1bdb931f.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

Still needing some fine tuning but you can see I am holding the gate with my left hand. The hingeblock on top needs to be power planed down a bit.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_134814_zpsa3651e4d.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_134814_zpsa3651e4d.jpg.html)

With the hinges installed. I was getting tired so I didn't take any pictures of the individual hinges but they are inset into the gates for a more secure and compact fit.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_160254_zps1bd55e8c.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_160254_zps1bd55e8c.jpg.html)

This one shows the next angle I tried. Its about 22-30 degrees from the transom. It allowed for a lot better, peaked wake compared to my previous 40 degrees.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_160411_zpsd3c35ea6.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_160411_zpsd3c35ea6.jpg.html)

Side view with it retracted. The cut out for the rail has a piece that is mounted on a hinge from the backside that flips up and is held in place by a small piece of flat stock and a single screw.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_160303_zpsb1c1f5bf.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_160303_zpsb1c1f5bf.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

Front view of it when retracted. Since taken I have placed a piece of automotive weather stripping along the edge that decreases the gap and fills it in completely when deployed.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_160312_zps612dce72.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_160312_zps612dce72.jpg.html)

Front view when deployed. Again the weather stripping fills in the gap completely. I have no vertical water spray from it when deployed. I do have a little when retracted and going about 30mph.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130615_160322_zpsc58bfdf9.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130615_160322_zpsc58bfdf9.jpg.html)

This is a picture of the first gate I built. I wanted to show the mechanism that I use to hold it open. I cut the long section in half and added a turnbuckle to it made from aluminum for another fail safe. This also increased the angle putting the pressure in the center of the plastic mount
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/20130612_201946_zps6619be4d.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/20130612_201946_zps6619be4d.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

a closer look at the lock mechanism.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/311484_zpsc779efc6.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/311484_zpsc779efc6.jpg.html)

[CornRickey]

I have reverted back to redesigning the actual gates. The retracted gate on the surf side was interfering with the wake and causing some wash out. This is also seen with most of the videos I have watched also. I believe it is a combination of the thickness of the material (specific to my design) and how far the gate is in the water when underway (common to all of the designs I've seen.

I have raised the whole gate about 1.5 inchs and have made the bottom 3 inchs retractable with spring hinges so it swings up to the bottom of the platform. I am also going to shape a edge on the bottom of it to slice through the water. Hopefully all three changes will eliminate the washing out. If not I will revert back to my existing design and plan on removing the surf side one when switching sides.

My hope is to finish the mock up tomorrow and get it on the water tomorrow night. Weather hasn't been very helpful lately.

[haugy]

Well hell, those pictures cleared up a lot. I thought your backing plate behind the platform was going to slide out to the side, and THAT was the gate.

Did you mention that you were putting hinges on and an actual other piece? I may have sped read over that.

I'm still very leary about it's strength. But hell, I've booty fabbed up stuff that shouldn't have made it off the trails, but they did and then some. :D

[2500HD]

Love the design, I tried mine at powell but the swim deck i made is to long and squashing the wake to where it had no push. Then i tried slaming and listing the boat and still had the same. Luckily my buddies Moomba xlv puts out a sweet wave or i would have been bumming.

[Jetlink]

Yeah, I would have been bummed if I had to spend a week boating on Lake Powell too.

[CornRickey]

well after two different versions I am reverting back to my original. I cant get the wake to clean up with the gate retracted on the surf side. I even made a gate thatfolds lenght wise ddecreasing its profile from the bottom with no luck. ive spent two days.on r&d trying to get a design that eliminates a minute of removing and installing the gates when switxhing sides. ill.take some more pictures and post them up.

[CornRickey]

video of today. this is with the gate removed on the surf side.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=goMdQ-UPwGY&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[2500HD]

Yeah, I would have been bummed if I had to spend a week boating on Lake Powell too.

Just sayin i really wanted to surf some canyons:D

[2500HD]

so what actually holds your backing plate? also have you had any problems with the regular side wake? I could get a beautiful wave on the goofy side and nothing but wash on the regular side. This may actually be from my swim deck squashing the wake though.

[CornRickey]

The mounting plate fits snug between the swim platform and transom. It was heat molded to it so it fits snug. The force is transferred from the gate in the front, through the front hinges to the mount plate laterally to the side of the outer platform mount side. The rest of the force on the gate is transferred through the adjustable support to the mounting plate lower on the transom. I'm sure there is some rotational force put on the platform but I don't think its enough to cause a problem. Try removing the gate on the surf side. I could get a better wake on the goofy side when both gates were installed but it wasn't clean in my opinion. I'm about to post up a new video showing the whole set up.

[CornRickey]

http://youtu.be/TKMXhnVXbvU

[2500HD]

very nice! You've given me some ideas. mine was moveable from side to side, but stowing it sucked. I think i like yours better.

[CornRickey]

My plan was. to make them retractable (which they still are) and install them on the ramp and leave them on all day but I couldn't get the wake to clean up from the gate dragging in the water. It didn't matter how small I made it, it still screwed up the wake. my platform is a inch or so under water when surfing even when weighted evenly

[CornRickey]

Yea, I hacked up one of my first versons. First started tapering from the bottom. After removing about two inch of material and it not making a difference I started shortening it. Both with no impact. My second version I hinged the bottom 3 inchs so it would fold up flat under the platform and stay in place with spring loaded hinges. Slight change but not to my satisfaction. I kicked around raising the platform but that would mean starting over again with new mounting plates and everything and making it weaker. I think I could raise the gates about 2 inchs before the height wouldn't make a difference. I have a lot of water flowing over the top of them now. This would probably fix the problem. My family all ride goofy. I would need the other side unless going out with friends. So removing and installing wouldn't be a big deal.

[TitanTn]

That's very impressive. Regardless of the impact to the wake, the engineering is impressive and I really like that the impact to the boat is minimal - meaning that you can remove it quickly without having to put any additional brackets or holes in your boat.

[Sdc77]

That's a great upgrade !
And nice DIY stuff

[CornRickey]

Thanks for the kind words.Now if it would stop raining I could put some more hours on them.

[NorCalPR]

I made a "surf gate" that c-clamped to the swim platform for my 98 Comp while I was camping in Shasta last week.

It worked, but took ALL the push out of the wave. The pocket was much longer though, but it didn't matter, It was unridable. I was running a 250 bag in the nose, a 350 in the rear locker, and a 600lb bag on one side of the motor, and I had people sit in the other side of the boat. A slight lean to the boat while underway and sitting.

I took it off and had people sit on the side with the 600lb bag. Viola. All the push was there and the wave was STEEP.

It was also a major PITA to drive with it on. I've been driving boats for years, and it was even a challenge for me. The boat barely steered in gear, you had to use more throttle to get it to turn. As soon as you pop it out of gear, the boat would turn.

I took it off and I am leaving it off. It would work, if I had another 1000-2000 lbs of weight in the boat. I am already pushing it with my comp...


I'm happy with my wave. I just have an extra bag so when I want to switch sides, I pump one into the other. Quick enough for me...


FWIW, here's the wave without the surf gate.

12455

[2500HD]

Hey CornRickey, did you get any vid of your new setup? I'm dyin to see it in action!
I also had Jetlink move my build back to my thread, i felt bad for hijacking your build thread.

[CornRickey]

I took some video today when I got my dad up. I'm going to take a look at it and see about posting some up. This was the first time using the new set up and I am very impressed with it. It takes seconds to take off and reinstall. The only negative issue is that I have one sitting in the boat somewhere and they are not compact. The adjustability is the key to the set up. I was able to adjust them on the fly between sets with the turn of the turn buckle. No spay at all. From the videos I've seen on the factory system it has less than theirs. I had all of the plastic already. A buddy of mine who has a 03 Santera wasn't me to build him a set. I have spec'ed out material costs and its right at 250 for both. I got to drive the boat a lot today with them on and I did notice stearing was off a little. Going straight it tracked fine and was not noticeable. Trying to turn at a idle against the gate made for really wide turns. All and all it is a great success. All of these issues doesn't compare to having the boat listed to one side in rough water. I can't believe these haven't taken off more in the DIY community.

[CornRickey]

My dad explaining what he is about to do

http://youtu.be/aXp_DilOKDo

[CornRickey]

My dad wakesurfing for the first time.

http://youtu.be/quiD3hvHEu0

[2500HD]

That's fricking awesome, love it
Nice wave.

[CornRickey]

put a couple hours on the gates today. I can't be happier. Takes 20 seconds to switch sides with my strap system on the top. running full 750 on the surf side. half 750 on none surf side, half 1100 on front and wake plate up. No lean. The boat doesn't turn as sharp against the gate but it does turn.

[CornRickey]

I have about a dozen runs on it with all different weights and conditions. Everytime I go out I cant believe how well it works. I'm now running 750 on the wake with 350 on the other, nothing up front, wakeplate at half and @ 9.5mph.Thats 1800 lbs less and 1.5mph less with no lean! Im
using allot less fuel and getting a comparable wake. I'm finding that with less people in the boat I adjust the gate angle in a little and with more I adjust it out. Completely Awesome in my book. I can't believe there isn't more DIY off these things. I've sold two of my bags since starting to use it and am contemplating if I need to up grade my pumps still since Im only filling up two bags now.

[TitanTn]

That is awesome. Very impressing engineering.

When you get a chance, show us some pics of it in action now that you have the setup figured out.

[CornRickey]

I've been getting a lot of interest in the gates recently. I made a video for someone and figured that I would add it here for those interested. If you interested in more info feel free to PM me. My Youtube channel has some other videos of them in action but I keep running out of memory or batteries when I take my GoPro out on the board with me. Thanks for watching.


http://youtu.be/MZ1n6Ih8W0o

[wotan2525]

That looks awesome! Where did you get that locking ram/actuator/hinge thing?

[trayson]

a closer look at the lock mechanism.
http://i1333.photobucket.com/albums/w640/CornRickey/311484_zpsc779efc6.jpg (http://s1333.photobucket.com/user/CornRickey/media/311484_zpsc779efc6.jpg.html)

+ 1.

Where did you source this?

[CornRickey]

local hardware store. Rockler has them also.

[trayson]

local hardware store. Rockler has them also.

Tell me what they're called then. I am really good at searching for stuff, but not sure what keywords to use.

I get a few things that seem similar when I look for a "Folding Brace". But no ringers...


EDIT: Found it. "stainless folding bracket". "Stainless" was the magic word!

http://www.zorotools.com/g/00063830/k-G0362731?utm_source=google_shopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Google_Shopping_Feed&kw={keyword}&gclid=CPOxuY3Do7kCFWxo7AodUQoA7A

[CornRickey]

that's it but mine aren't stainless and cost 12 bucks each.

[CornRickey]

Spent the day on Lake Washington yesterday and put a bunch of time on the gates. Took the liberty of taking a little video.


http://youtu.be/MVTyaLKVuRA

[TitanTn]

It's kinda hard to tell what impact the gate is having, but the wake looks good and your surfing skills do too. Thanks for sharing.

[CornRickey]

it's tough to show but I can guarantee you I wouldn't be out there with out it. it doesn't take much to make it happen. I'm 230lbs and surfing with only 750 on one side and maybe 350 on the other while holding a camera and taping. there's allot of push and forgiveness while I'm tapping.

[Jesse]

awesome work!!!! the only question I have is about the using less weight. I would think if you kept your original sac weight set up but just centered everything out you would have a bigger wave yet. I did a decent job of reading thru the thread and dint really catch why you dropped the extra weight besides you dint need it anymore. curious if the wave was just big enough for you or junked out with the extra weight?

[CornRickey]

I've been asked to show some pictures of a comparable between no gates and gates. Its easier to make a video so here it is. Feel free to PM me is interested.


http://youtu.be/oCINO6POuK8

[CornRickey]

awesome work!!!! the only question I have is about the using less weight. I would think if you kept your original sac weight set up but just centered everything out you would have a bigger wave yet. I did a decent job of reading thru the thread and dint really catch why you dropped the extra weight besides you dint need it anymore. curious if the wave was just big enough for you or junked out with the extra weight?

Your right. Once you get the weight ratio figured out you add equal amounts to both sides then you have to add weight to the front. This goes ok for a extra 500 then you have to decrease the ratio (less weight on the gate side) due to the gate being too far in the water and lot effecting the wake enough. I've been running the weight I've been posting because I keeps the floor clear of bags. If I only have two people in the boat its a little tough for me to surf and do anything but my kids do fine. A adult or two added makes things just fine for me. I'm 230lbs. Thanks for asking. Hope that helped.

[trayson]

I've been asked to show some pictures of a comparable between no gates and gates. Its easier to make a video so here it is. Feel free to PM me is interested.


http://youtu.be/oCINO6POuK8

Cool video. Someday when i have a V-drive, I'll likely do a surf gate install. But with a DD, it just doesn't seem like it's all that realistic since I don't have all the compartments for bags that v-drives have.

[CornRickey]

well I guess it's just how you look at it. if you are loading your dd to surf, you can decrease the weight significantly with the gates and get the same results.

[trayson]

well I guess it's just how you look at it. if you are loading your dd to surf, you can decrease the weight significantly with the gates and get the same results.

I wonder what I could pull off. As it is, I can get a surfable wave with the following:

250 under rear seat
370 on surf side floor beside doghouse
750 on top of the 370 bag, as far back into the back seat as possible
Passengers sitting middle/rear and observer seat.
No bow weight, wake plate 3/4" down
I have another little 150 bag I can throw wherever, but we haven't played with it too much.


So, with that setup, we're certainly listing. We run water to the rubrail to the first rear cleat when underway and also are about 4 to 6" below the rub rail at the rear corner at rest.

Our floor space then is most of what's in front of the observer seat, the floor on the non-surf side beside the doghouse, and a little spot of floor behind the doghouse (back/middle).

I'm wondering what a surfgate change would really look like. if anything I'd imagine it'd mean I could move the 370 to the non-surf side which would mean that all the floor on either side of the doghouse would then be gone, but the boat wouldn't be listing that much. DEFINITELY a trade off when I'm working with a DD. Of course I'd like to run less listed, but I'm not excited about giving up any more of my already limited space...

Thoughts? I'm totally open to discussion/suggestions from other boat owners...

[CornRickey]

well. displacement is displacement and displacement creates the wave. The lean creates the delay in convergence on the side that is high ( non surf side). The gates eliminate the need for the lean. that being said there is a need for some adding or subtracting of lean to adjust the depth of the gate in the water as it relates to how far the whole back of the boat is sitting in the water. In other words, since the height is the gate isn't adjustable, when you weight the boat heavily in the back evenly, the gate allows to much water to flow over its top so a decrease in water to the gate side is needed to compensate.

As for your boat specifically, I don't know for sure but physics don't change and I couldn't imagine it would not help. I ran a 750 surf side rear locker, 750 surf side floor and 1100 in front before to get a wake I could surf with little issues. Now I run 750 surf side rear locker and 350 noon surf side rear with the gate. nothing up front. I can get a bigger wake by adding 400 on the surface for and 600 in front but don't need it and it multiplies the time to switch sides by 10. I also have decreased my speed by 1.2mph and save noticeable gas.

[CornRickey]

I wonder what I could pull off. As it is, I can get a surfable wave with the following:

250 under rear seat
370 on surf side floor beside doghouse
750 on top of the 370 bag, as far back into the back seat as possible
Passengers sitting middle/rear and observer seat.
No bow weight, wake plate 3/4" down
I have another little 150 bag I can throw wherever, but we haven't played with it too much.


So, with that setup, we're certainly listing. We run water to the rubrail to the first rear cleat when underway and also are about 4 to 6" below the rub rail at the rear corner at rest.

Our floor space then is most of what's in front of the observer seat, the floor on the non-surf side beside the doghouse, and a little spot of floor behind the doghouse (back/middle).

I'm wondering what a surfgate change would really look like. if anything I'd imagine it'd mean I could move the 370 to the non-surf side which would mean that all the floor on either side of the doghouse would then be gone, but the boat wouldn't be listing that much. DEFINITELY a trade off when I'm working with a DD. Of course I'd like to run less listed, but I'm not excited about giving up any more of my already limited space...

Thoughts? I'm totally open to discussion/suggestions from other boat owners...

You set up is similar to mine prior to gates.I was to throw a starting point at it is say leave the under seat weight. put the 750 on the floor between the rear seat and dog house, use your little bag to fine tune back and forth on t the rear seat till you get it figured out then place the 750 bag on thefloorin to replicate it. I'm surprised you don't use weight up front. You'll probably need to use the plate or the small bag to lengthen the pocket when you get to that point

[trayson]

Okay, I guess I won't give up hope just yet. I mean, I suppose even if I used ALL of my same weight configured differently but was able to ride more level with a good pocket that it'd probably be worth it. Okay, I won't rule out a gate.

I'm getting closer to completing my custom swim platform so I won't have that digging into my wave. Might be worth adding a gate at some point to that... Who knows, it might make it easier to justify keeping my DD for longer (as a V-drive would be doubling my investment minimum!)

I love watching the builds and to see people problem solving and stuff.

[villain]

I have a few ideas brewing in my Mellon for a surf gate. When I start I will share all ideas as I brig them to fruition.

[trayson]

I have a few ideas brewing in my Mellon for a surf gate. When I start I will share all ideas as I brig them to fruition.

Well, working at a boat dealer, I would hope yours would involve a Lenco trim tab actuator! I've seen some nice install write ups using those.

[CornRickey]

unless you can get it to not effect the surf wave, the actuators are irrelevant. I think the only way is to raise the platform considerably. I wasnt willing to do that. I usually adjust the angles of mine a couple times in a day as loads change. A actuator isn't indexed so you would start over each time you retracted it to switch sides. seems like more of a pain than its worth.

[CornRickey]

Okay, I guess I won't give up hope just yet. I mean, I suppose even if I used ALL of my same weight configured differently but was able to ride more level with a good pocket that it'd probably be worth it. Okay, I won't rule out a gate.

I'm getting closer to completing my custom swim platform so I won't have that digging into my wave. Might be worth adding a gate at some point to that... Who knows, it might make it easier to justify keeping my DD for longer (as a V-drive would be doubling my investment minimum!)

I love watching the builds and to see people problem solving and stuff.

A large portion of your weight is for lean. You could loose considerable weight. I decreased by almost 1500lbs and dropped over 1mph, that's considerable when you're talking 10mph. About 300rpm under load. That's allot of gas

[Morgan2886]

To the o.p, are you still running this set up or have you moved to something else? If still using it, are you still just keeping one attached at a time?

[CornRickey]

I responded to your PM. I'm running one at a time when surfing. I see no other way unless I remount my swim step higher which isn't going to happen. I leave them both on when doing everything else when I need the room in the boat. Still love them and have not seen a better and safer option....

[trayson]

I thought about going with surfgates. But I'm very happy with my NSS style blades. It's pretty awesome to be able to have them not stick out when they're retracted. No need to take them off (they're permenently mounted anyway). 5 to 10 second switchover from side to side or to adjust the wave a little.

Awesome yours is working well.

[CornRickey]

There's no doubt about it...... There's many ways to skin a cat. It comes down to how much time is spent in r&d and advancing something until it works, it's tough to switch to something different and lose all of that time

[bunji169]

The actuators are called "Drop Leaf Table Braces" just fyi. Home depot and Lowes do not carry them in my area. I made a one piece fixed position gate for my 2008 Launch 22SSV. I will try it this weekend.http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/26/ad515993c5b25343abc1e46fce98cbeb.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/08/26/454b82cc71a7cf8417b4e631ddede67b.jpg

[bunji169]

I built a fixed position gate. Just eyeballed it based on Malibu pics. No real measurements to speak of. I'll test it this weekend.

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Surfin USA

[wotan2525]

I built a fixed position gate. Just eyeballed it based on Malibu pics. No real measurements to speak of. I'll test it this weekend.

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Surfin USA


That looks great! Where did you get the HDPE?

[trayson]

That looks great! Where did you get the HDPE?

Don't you guys have local plastics shops? We do. I got mine at TAP Plastics in Portland. But there's a few other places I could have gone to in the local area.

[CornRickey]

Keltech in Tacoma. 2'x8'x3/4 was around $200

[bunji169]

Tap Plastics. I got bored and decided to redo it. Second version is on hinge and adjusts angle via turnbuckle. I haven't tried either out yet. Maybe tomorrow.


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Surfin USA

[devovino]

So I was able to try out my "prototype" surf gate yesterday, and I should have done this months ago! We were surfing under normal weighting for my Saltare (500 in the rear locker, 750x2 on either side of the engine, and 2x200 bags on the rear seat we can move around based on the stance of the surfer) along with 4 people adjusting their seating accordingly. I surfed at first w/o the gate as usual, there was a lot wash from the non surf side, interference, mostly the swim step cutting into the water underway. I installed the "wake gate" and the difference was night and day! Installed the wake was much cleaner, still tall, and the pocket was waaay longer! At one point I recovered from probably 15-18 feet back, my friend has vidoe on his phone I will try and post it when he e-mails it to me.
I modeled it from yours Cornrickey, just using cheaper materials, lol, an old cutting board to be exact! It worked great, and there are a few improvements right of the bat I can make to make it better moving forward. For starters, I was not able to find the adjustable turnbuckle you used on your Cornrickey anywhere, so the surf gate installed simply rests along the rail of the swim step from the pressure of the water against it underway, basically at the same exact angle of the hull of the boat, I believe being able to adjust the gate outward to lets say 10-15 degrees will make a huge difference! I did find those turnbuckles you used bunji169 but I could not see an effective way to incorporate them into my design, and I was also worried all the play with this open eyelets would be a problem, you will have to let us know how they work. Also, the gate could be longer, at this time it falls short of the end of the swim step, I think those two things will make a huge difference! Also, possibly building a new swim step, and raising it up a little bit but I like my fiberglass one now, and I think between the two things I mentioned, it should not be an issue.
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[devovino]

Here is a couple more pictures of the simple set up surf gate!
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[wotan2525]

Interesting! So you surf a goofy wave on your salt?

[devovino]

Interesting! So you surf a goofy wave on your salt?

Oh yeah! I had almost a waist high wake yesterday and about 12-15 feet back! I think it's all about your weighing, I would love to see it with a 541 prop! Also, I just move over the 400lbs and my friend all surf regular! Good times all around

[bunji169]

So I tried both versions out yesterday. I named it "Fountain Gate". It created a cool fountain in the non wake side. Of course I forgot to take pics. I will next time. I was thinking it was due to the gate being about 2 inches higher than the swim deck. After seeing yours devovino, maybe that's not the case. Yours looks way higher than mine. I'm going to try again next week with new 1100's in lockers. This should put boat far enough down so gate is completely under water. Otherwise I'll try trimming off a couple inches.


Surfin USA

[CornRickey]

Talk about thread hijack ;)

[devovino]

Talk about thread hijack ;)

hahaah, pretty much! I would look at it as a compliment! As you are the one that pretty much opened the "flood gates" on the surf gate, at least for me, I am just paying homage to you!

[bunji169]

Sorry CornRickey. I was too lazy to start my own. You da man.


Surfin USA

[ckracing]

I'll be hitting this project head on over the next few weeks. From initial measurements / drawings I can accomplish this on my 86 Sunsport with drilling only a few holes in the boat. I'll be utilizing the outside mounting bolts for the swim platform as the hinge mount and installing Bennett or Lenco actuators to move the gates. Thankfully I have enough leftover teak to make this happen.
End result should be clean lines to the platform, no impact to conventional running (gates in). Now to finally fixed-plumb ballast.
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[trayson]

I'll be hitting this project head on over the next few weeks. From initial measurements / drawings I can accomplish this on my 86 Sunsport with drilling only a few holes in the boat. I'll be utilizing the outside mounting bolts for the swim platform as the hinge mount and installing Bennett or Lenco actuators to move the gates. Thankfully I have enough leftover teak to make this happen.
End result should be clean lines to the platform, no impact to conventional running (gates in). Now to finally fixed-plumb ballast.
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One thing to think about. I have a friend that has done a full powered surfgate install with the lenco actuators and all. He still runs into problems with the retracted gates interfering with his wakeboard wake.

i may be biased but I think the NSS style surf blades like I did would be a better choice and just as easily powered...

Something to think about. Obviously I have first hand experience with powered gates and my manual blades.

Most people with "ghetto gates" aren't testing the effects of the *retracted* gate on things.

[CornRickey]

Unless you have the ability to index the gate out to the relative same place every time then slight adjustments as needed for weight changes this would be a real pain in the rear. Without this ability you are setting up the wake every time you deploy the gates.

[trayson]

Unless you have the ability to index the gate out to the relative same place every time then slight adjustments as needed for weight changes this would be a real pain in the rear. Without this ability you are setting up the wake every time you deploy the gates.

Malibu's gates are all or nothing. My friend that copied Malibu did the same with his actuators.

So that is likely what copying Malibu would yield.

[CornRickey]

They probably did a ton of r&d and decided on a average angle. I tweak mine about everytimeI go for the day.

[jtryon]

I finally got to test my rough draft of a gate yesterday and love the results. Here is a before shot, with 650lbs up front and 1350 on the surf side:
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And after, with 650 up front, 800 on the surf side and 500 on the non-surf side:
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I rode it first and it took some getting used to after surfing for two years without it. There was definitely enough push to ride comfortably, and the pocket was noticeably longer and much cleaner. I used to have to ride close to the platform and can now ride twice as far off or so out without losing it. It's nice to be able to drop back now and pump in to try tricks, whereas before I didn't have any area to do so.

Driving impressions: it was nice not to be driving a listed boat, but the gate actually takes some getting used to. Since we surf regular, the gate is on the starboard side and thus the boat wants to turn toward starboard. Once you get up to speed it is ok, but when you go to neutral it's impossible to turn left. You also have to hold pretty strong to keep the boat straight for the same reasons. I got used to it after driving for a few hours yesterday but initially it was weird.

Some improvements will be made and more testing done, especially with weight and deployment angle, but overall I'm very happy with it.

[bunji169]

Do you have pics of your actual gate installation?


Surfin USA

[jtryon]

here are a couple that i took when building it, they don't show the attachment though. it is very basic since it's a trial to make sure it worked--basically two 2x4's cut to length and angled to butt up close to the hull, a long gate hinge (longer than the one pictured) to hold the piece of wal-mart cutting board (HDPE), and reinforcement brackets (different than the one pictured) holding the wood together. i wanted to use a turnbuckle as pictured for adjustability. the attachment points (not shown) are a short turnbuckle up top from the tie-down u-bolt to a screwed-in eyelet, and a ratchet strap to an eyelet on the bottom piece of wood to the ski ring in the middle of the boat above the platform. the two pieces of wood install snugly around the swim platform rail but put minimal pressure on the platform itself.

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things i will change: a better way to cinch the bottom eyelet without using a ratchet strap. i will also space out the front hinge from the wood because the swim platform railing contacts it currently and doesn't allow the wood to go as far in as i need it, thus causing the hdpe to just barely protrude from the hull at the very bottom. i was worried this would rip off while under way, but it held up without issue to 3 or so hours of surfing. other than that, i want to weight it down more and try different combinations of side-to-side weight. attempted speed for this was anywhere from 10.0 to 10.7, but 10.3 seemed optimal. we normally surf at 11.2-11.5, for comparison. that was another nice thing, we barely had to get on the throttle before PP took over with this setup.

[bunji169]

Did you get any spray from the gate on the non surf side? My first attempts yielded a decent wave but a fountain like spray from the gate that made it all the way over to the surf wave and washed it out..

[jtryon]

I don't get any spray with this setup. I was worried from seeing other builds and test results because some have seen spray on the platform, some have seen it near the gas cap and/or fuel vent which obviously isn't desireable. I wish I took pictures of that, but it basically just made a little rainbow of water that came back down on the non-surf side. I wonder if your gate angle is too much or too little?

[CornRickey]

Back to the original topic.......I have had a couple inquires on purchasing gates over the past couple weeks. I do build them. The catch is they are built to the hull of a '03 Supra 22 SSV and comparable. Anything different would be the responsibility of the buyer for fit and finish. The exception is if you can get your boat to my shop for a couple days then we can more than likely get you set up. I'm located in the Tacoma, WA area. A set takes about 4 days to build. As for timing.......once by boat (my template) leaves my shop for the cabin it doesn't come back until fall so If you are interested in ordering a set or a single you need to get in contact with me ASAP. I am anticipating taking it out around Labor day. As for this thread.....feel free to ask question about my design/product ect. I'll answer most of them but asking for specific measurements, templates I would rather not. I think my videos show enough for the diy'er to get it done. If you want to show everyone your gate then go ahead and make a new thread for it. This keeps down the need to read through 10 pages of posts to find the info on the original topic. I hope everyone understands. Thanks and bring on SUMMER!

[jtryon]

my apologies, i thought this to be an informative thread about gates and never saw that it was "your thread" because i didn't read from the beginning. i'm obviously not selling anything, just trying to help a fellow boater out. i'll keep the pics and such out of this one.

[CornRickey]

No apologies needed! I hate the idea of several good ideas getting barried in a single long thread. I've received several contacts asking if I'm still using them. Physics hasn't changed and they still work great! Unfortunately I'm not able to fabricated any until my boat is back in my shop for the winter because I use it for mock up.

I did get the opportunity to surf behind a '14 MB Tomcat this week end. It had the flooding ballistic in it which is awesome with 950lbs a side. Unfortunately the wave was lacking in the stock configuration and Ali i could do was concentrate on keeping going.

More that ever I feel the addition of the gates (or what ever apparatus you use) is by for the best addition for surfing. Not only safer but also cheaper and faster.