PCM 454 starter - Saltare

[cadunkle]

I want to get a new starter for the PCM 454 LH standxard rotation in my '89 Saltare. It is a top mount rear entry starter mounted on the bellhousing and offset to startboard side. Current starter works but occasionally I get a small puff of smoke out of it (internally). Cleaned terminals and no difference. Cranks fast but I don't want it to die on me. Looking at DB electric and going to order a higher output alternator too since they have great prices and several here have used them.

Looking at past threads I see two different starters that different people claim are correct for the boat, but not specified where the starter location is. One is SDR0065 which seems to be for reverse rotation engines as it cross references to PCM# RA122008 and then to this Sierra starter (http://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?pnumber=S185901&mfg=SIERRA&mfgno=18-5901&desc=Remanufactured%20Starter) which states:
Top mount rear entry starter
Opposite rotation starter
GM and Ford engines clockwise

The other one mentioned here is #SDR0105 which cross references to PCM# RA122008 and then to this Sierra starter (http://www.marinepartssource.com/newdetails.asp?pnumber=S185902&mfg=SIERRA&mfgno=18-5902&desc=Remanufactured%20Starter) which states:
Top mount rear entry starter
For Gm and Ford standard rotation engines

Not sure how the SDR0065 would work in a standard rotation engine unless it was mounted in a normal front entry application as it would turn a standard rotation engine backwards in a rear entry? So the SDR0105 should be the correct starter as I have a standard LH rotation engine with a top mount rear entry starter? Please help clarify before I order.

[haugy]

My head just exploded. I've read this 4 times, and boom.

If you know your rotation, and placement it should be clear to pick which one. The problem with some of these parts listings with starters is they guy who typed it in has no idea about this stuff, and you get confusing details.

You asked how the 065 would work in a standard rotation engine........it won't. It says opposite rotation, clockwise. That to me means right hand rotation. This one would fit my boat.

The 0105 is a standard rotation, (which honestly I'm not sure who is really standard, LH or RH), but it doesn't say clockwise, so I would assume counter-clockwise, so LH rotation.

I think you're right about needing the 105 starter for yours.

[wotan2525]

I'm really confused by this. One is CW rotation (opposite) and one is CCW (standard.) The starter itself doesn't care where it's mounted (or where Mecca is.) You need the 0105. Quit asking questions and just order it! ;)

[Jetlink]

Just make sure to reference true north when installing the starter so it will initialize the start sequence properly...lol

[haugy]

Is that Greenich mean time? Or by the Navy master clock?

[cadunkle]

Actually it does matter which direction the starter is installed. If the nose is pointing forward it spins the engine one direction and if the nose is installed towards the back it will spin the engine the other direction. It sounds like 0105 is the correct starter though, so I'll order that one.

[Salty87]

it goes both ways? wow, does that cost extra?

[mdb122]

Just ordered one from Amazon this morning after confirming with DB . $83 and No Shipping

"Yes SDR0105 is CCW which is counter clockwise or reverse rotation."

Thanks, DB

DB ELECTRICAL
664 EASTERN STAR ROAD
KINGSPORT TN 37663
800-753-2242

[TitanTn]

I have the same boat, engine rotation, and starter location. I just ordered the SDR0105 from DB Electrical and it fit perfectly. Works great,and DB Electrical was great. Lightning fast shipping and great communication.

[cadunkle]

I got the starter a few days ago and finally got the time to install today. Looked close to identical. Turns the correct direction for a standard LH rotation engine, cranked it over fine. I do notice that this starter turns the engine slower than the one that was on there, but it starts fine and no smoke like the old one so I'm satisfied so long as it lasts. One thing I did notice is there is a small hole in the case towards the nose of the starter. The old starter was cast with a small raised bump here and no hole. Makes me wonder, but the sticker on it does say ignition protected, I suppose that doesn't mean entirely sealed though. Whatever, it starts the boat and says ignition protected so I assume all is well.

[TitanTn]

Glad it worked for you. I've been out three times so far with mine, and I get a grin every time I bump the key and it starts right up. This is how it should be.

[Bravura88]

Hi guys I have 2 questions on this subject. I have a 88 Saltare 454 with the starter in the upper starboard side of the bellhousing. I purchased the boat last year and have been rebuilding it. When it ran last year forgot to take note of the direction of spin on the pulleys. Question 1 is there a way to tell what rotation your engine is without seeing it run or turn over (prop etc.)? Question 2 when you guys are talking about LH RH rotation are you talking about the direction of the pulleys or the rotation of the prop? Thx!

[TitanTn]

Hi guys I have 2 questions on this subject. I have a 88 Saltare 454 with the starter in the upper starboard side of the bellhousing. I purchased the boat last year and have been rebuilding it. When it ran last year forgot to take note of the direction of spin on the pulleys. Question 1 is there a way to tell what rotation your engine is without seeing it run or turn over (prop etc.)? Question 2 when you guys are talking about LH RH rotation are you talking about the direction of the pulleys or the rotation of the prop? Thx!

You can tell the engine rotation from standing behind the transmission and looking toward the front of the engine and seeing which way the pulleys rotate. If you can't see the engine run, the easiest way will be to look at your prop and it will have the prop size followed by a LH or RH depending on the rotation. LH rotation is considered standard so most often this will be the case.

[Bravura88]

Thanks for the info Titan!

[vvfdfirefighter]

12755

Wanted to bump this thread with this picture. Been a lifesaver for me! This diagram hold true for both top and bottom mounts. So here it is!

[TitanTn]

12754

Wanted to bump this thread with this picture. Been a lifesaver for me!

Could you host that image somewhere and just link it here? That attachment is so small I can't make out anything on it.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Could you host that image somewhere and just link it here? That attachment is so small I can't make out anything on it.

Give me five min. I posted from my phone, I'll do it from the computer.

Titan, i posted a bigger picture. works on my end. Let me know how it looks on yours.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Could you host that image somewhere and just link it here? That attachment is so small I can't make out anything on it.

I edited the picture Titan. It should work now!

[TitanTn]

I edited the picture Titan. It should work now!

Nice graphic. Thanks for posting.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Nice graphic. Thanks for posting.

Not a problem, I use this graphic all the time!

[wotan2525]

I just wanted to update this thread with my experience with SD0105. I've been running this starter for as along as I can remember (and obviously recommended it in here.) Unfortunately, my luck with this starter was spotty at best. I don't think I have had one make it through 2 seasons. They seem to get REALLY corroded on the inside. Recently I was stuck when the starter would no longer turn over and I had to paddle/swim the boat in. This was a starter that I installed of July 2013 so I only had it for 14-15 months.

This was the DB Electrical version but I suspect most of them come out of the same chinese/mexico factories.

Anyway -- I took the starter apart and was apalled at the poor construction. The armature had some really bad deformities on it (that must have been that way from the factory.) These defects had caused all but 1 brush to be broken, and the brush springs to also have broken off and been chewed up in the field windings.

I decided enough was enough -- I'm done with SD0105!

In all of my other vehicles, I always upgrade the starters to PMGR type starters when I replace them. For some reason, I had not been able to find a PMGR starter suitable for the 454 marine engine. It requires a starter that spins CCW and all of the PMGR CCW starters I could find had a completely different "offset" style of mounting ears.

Finally I've found a solution, though...... and I can't believe how fast and smooth my boat now starts! The LESTER 6793 is a PMGR starter in CCW orientation. It has the same number of teeth and the same mounting ears. For whatever reason, none of the parts lookups specify that this works with the 7.4/454 engine, but I ordered it anyway and can confirm that it works perfectly. Here's the one that I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094JJK7W/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item and here's the same item at DB Electrical (for those that prefer them): http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-2299-new-mercruiser-marine-omc-ccw-starter-crusader-140-6075.aspx

It's a much smaller, more powerful and more energy efficient starter than the stock one. Swap over to it the next time your starter craps out.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu79/rbosworth/20141005_124448_zpsped8drnp.jpg

[vvfdfirefighter]

I just wanted to update this thread with my experience with SD0105. I've been running this starter for as along as I can remember (and obviously recommended it in here.) Unfortunately, my luck with this starter was spotty at best. I don't think I have had one make it through 2 seasons. They seem to get REALLY corroded on the inside. Recently I was stuck when the starter would no longer turn over and I had to paddle/swim the boat in. This was a starter that I installed of July 2013 so I only had it for 14-15 months.

This was the DB Electrical version but I suspect most of them come out of the same chinese/mexico factories.

Anyway -- I took the starter apart and was apalled at the poor construction. The armature had some really bad deformities on it (that must have been that way from the factory.) These defects had caused all but 1 brush to be broken, and the brush springs to also have broken off and been chewed up in the field windings.

I decided enough was enough -- I'm done with SD0105!

In all of my other vehicles, I always upgrade the starters to PMGR type starters when I replace them. For some reason, I had not been able to find a PMGR starter suitable for the 454 marine engine. It requires a starter that spins CCW and all of the PMGR CCW starters I could find had a completely different "offset" style of mounting ears.

Finally I've found a solution, though...... and I can't believe how fast and smooth my boat now starts! The LESTER 6793 is a PMGR starter in CCW orientation. It has the same number of teeth and the same mounting ears. For whatever reason, none of the parts lookups specify that this works with the 7.4/454 engine, but I ordered it anyway and can confirm that it works perfectly. Here's the one that I purchased: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094JJK7W/ref=pe_385040_30332200_TE_item and here's the same item at DB Electrical (for those that prefer them): http://www.dbelectrical.com/p-2299-new-mercruiser-marine-omc-ccw-starter-crusader-140-6075.aspx

It's a much smaller, more powerful and more energy efficient starter than the stock one. Swap over to it the next time your starter craps out.

http://i635.photobucket.com/albums/uu79/rbosworth/20141005_124448_zpsped8drnp.jpg
What are the two purple wires for? I'm guessing this is "plug n play"?

[wotan2525]

The two purple wires are actually just one purple wire (they both connect to the same places. Not sure why its setup that way). They come from the ignition switch to the starter. Same as sd0105 so yes, it is plug and play.

[TitanTn]

That's great to know. Thanks for the report - I'm sure I'll be replacing the new starter I installed this year soon.

[jasun]

Great write up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wotan2525]

Was out this weekend and the girlfriend (who doesn't know a starter from a spark-plug) asked what had been changed to make the boat start so easily. She was amazed at how quickly and quietly the boat started.

In the past, I'd always have to crank it for 3-5 seconds before it would fire. I assumed this was because my carb has never been refreshed (and I've had it for 10+ years.) With the new starter it feels like a new engine. I know this is impossible but the girlfriend was absolutely convinced that the engine is running quieter and smoother -- and I couldn't outright disagree with her.

I should get paid for selling these starters..... I'd make sure everyone with a 454 tossed the stock one and went to this one tomorrow.

[Sdc77]

Hi guys,
Just ordered the 6793 PMGR, 7 to 15 days of shipping.
My factory starter died this winter, too rusty inside. I could save it last year with a refresh, but this time it's over. Everything is welded together.

I bought it from a dealer on eBay US (no way to find it in Europe), as it's faster and cheaper than by Amazon and/or DB Electrical. $84 plus only $40 shipping and taxes.

Will let you know how fast it start with it ;)

[Sdc77]

Just receive my PMGR, agreed with Wotan : Wow, how fast it starts ! Definitly a very good improvement, thanks for the tip
Mine is from DBelectrical, as the eBay dealer never ship the starter, eBay refund me. DBelectrical ship it in ... 3 open days :)

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/starter1.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/starter2.JPG

[wotan2525]

FML.

6793 worked great.... until it didn't. Bendix went out yesterday on the water. Is it possible that I have the worst luck EVER when it comes to starters?

BOTH the truck and boat starters went out yesterday. Sigh.

[devovino]

FML.

6793 worked great.... until it didn't. Bendix went out yesterday on the water. Is it possible that I have the worst luck EVER when it comes to starters?

BOTH the truck and boat starters went out yesterday. Sigh.

I think that is just dumb luck...... ^

Either way, I replaced my starter with the aforementioned unit, and it now works awesome first bump start is nice! Thanks for that, btw- same boat as yours 87 Saltare!
Out with the old: 15915
In with the new:15916

[korey]

FML.

6793 worked great.... until it didn't. Bendix went out yesterday on the water. Is it possible that I have the worst luck EVER when it comes to starters?

BOTH the truck and boat starters went out yesterday. Sigh.

Ordered a 6793 over the winter (actually it showed up as a Christmas gift!) and installed it before the first trip of the season. It failed on my 4th day out - today - as I had my dad out for a little Father's day ride :-/ same failure as wotan, bendix. Not sure what to order now, I really liked how that started the boat.

[wotan2525]

Ordered a 6793 over the winter (actually it showed up as a Christmas gift!) and installed it before the first trip of the season. It failed on my 4th day out - today - as I had my dad out for a little Father's day ride :-/ same failure as wotan, bendix. Not sure what to order now, I really liked how that started the boat.

FWIW, I eventually gave up on the 6793 and went back to the traditional "big" starter.

[TitanTn]

I'm still running the PMGR starter and it's lasted several seasons. I guess I'd better go knock on some wood somewhere.

[korey]

I might just help solidify the definition on insanity and order the same thing again... I need to decide about right now to get something back in time for leaving Friday morning for an island camping trip...

The one Discount Inboard Marine sells looks the same, is permanent magnet, but is twice the price (actually $209). They've never sold me ANYTHING that broke though... It says is is CGA as well, something I can't find in the listing for the one that I bought this winter.

For reference, this is the item I bought before:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0094JJK7W/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_api_HC1zxb3M37608

This is the SKIDIM variant:
http://www.skidim.com/STARTER-GM-LH-305_350_454_60L-Top-Mount/productinfo/RA122009/

[korey]

Publishing a little new knowledge that I have gained this afternoon:

SKIDIM's variant is genuine PCM Part No RA122009 which actually makes $209 a good deal (like $280 elsewhere)
http://www.skidim.com/STARTER-GM-LH-305_350_454_60L-Top-Mount/productinfo/RA122009/

Sierra marine lists 18-5603 as the replacement for that PCM number generally available for $180-200 online:
https://www.amazon.com/Sierra-18-5603-Starter-Standard-Rotation/dp/B000N9VEI0

Several "no name" interchanges for the same starter available under $100 by using part number 6793N. Coast Guard approval unknown.

I've gone with genuine PCM part. Documented warranty, and and I stretch my weekends too far into Sunday night to not throw the top shelf solution at this... There are lots of problems that a guy can overcome on the water - a busted starter is not typically one of them!

[Sdc77]

Hi guys. I didn't post on it this year as I fixed it as quick as 15min work ...
My 6793 didn't start the engine this season. After checking batteries, I finally decide to open the starter. I think those things have too much grease inside when new. Carbons where stuck in initial position as grease solidify at the lower position of the starter.
So I simply cleaned the wole thing, so no more solid grease, and it started right after. Only took 15 minutes as said before.
So don't trash it, open, clean and let's go again ;)

[korey]

I came home tonight and took the failed 6793N apart, and it was NOT the solenoid as expected. The gear reduction in achieved with a planetary gearset, and the outer ring gear is NYLON and all shredded! So although the starter sounded like it was free spinning like the pinion never engaged the flywheel, it was actually only turning the sun and planetary gears, and never turning the ring which was stripped. I'm surprised these were nylon!

[wotan2525]

This is what my local starter shop told me when I took a failed one to him. He couldn't source another of those nylon gears and said it was a mystery to him where the rebuilder was getting them from. I questioned why it was nylon and he said it was to protect the ring gear -- if it was metal and there was some kind of backfire, it would wipe the teeth of the gear. That was also his theory on why my nylon ones were being cooked, btw -- he thought my timing was out of adjustment and there was something during the starting process that caused the engine to spin backwards for a second. I checked and double-checked my timing and couldn't find an issue.

[korey]

A little googling around landed me on this site that shows a parts list:

http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/new12vstform4.html

The stationary gear is 5840-4504 (Delco number) but if you google that it looks like it is steel. I'm not sure if I'm brave enough to put steel in there. I'd much rather replace starters than flywheels! If it looks safe, I'll take the OEM PCM starter apart when I get it Thursday and see what's in there...

[Sdc77]

Forgot to post this pic : begining of the season fixing the 6793 starter :D

17375

[Sdc77]

Hi guys,
6793 dies yesterday night. Carbon brushes are very poor quality and broke in thousand pièces :

17397

Black stuff on the floor is actually positive side brushes !

Just placed an order for a new starter as I can't stay without boating.

But I also want to fix this starter, to have a spare.
I saw those two references, but measurement given don't help me :

ACDelco-E720A (https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-E720A-Professional-Starter-Brush/dp/B0012P7KV4)

ACDelco-E744A (https://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-E744A-Professional-Starter-Brush/dp/B0055AMSWI)

Can someone tell me if on of them fit in a 6793 starter ? or any other brush set reference ?
Thanks

[dbruesehoff]

Sdc77, sorry I am going to be no help. Just chiming in because I believe my starter took a dump today. Oddly enough if I tap on the solenoid with a wrench or screwdriver it will turn over for a second but then spin and then I get nothing, just one click every time I turn the key and that's it. I am not sure which one to buy now based on the comments here, thinking I might pop for the PCM one from skidim assuming it will last longer than the other recommendations.

[Sdc77]

Hi dbruesehoff,
I finally found why the 6793 dies : The axle bearing exploded in hundred pièces. So, big resistance of the axle, and big overheat on the carbons. They finally broke because of that. I received a new 6793 as I could'nt find the bearing quickly, but ordered the bearing anyway, and a complete brushing plate. Now I fixed the first 6793 with german bearing and ACDelco brushings. It's now more solid than factory, and works like a truck. I have a new 6793 spare in case of troubles.
For the price and shipping price, you should go for a 6793. It's easy to fix if broken and cheap IMO. It starts the engine so much quicker than a direct drive starter and uses less ampères.

17545

17546

[korey]

If you've had it apart, did your 6793 have a nylon or brass ring gear in the gearbox?

[Sdc77]

Hi Korey,
The only nylon part inside is the arm that pushes the axle. Reduction gears are iron.
The brushes kit I ordered is this one : http://www.condensateur-web.fr/couronne-porte-balais-pour-demarreur-delco-remy-10472352-A2452-298.html
It needed a few adaptation : drill 2 new holes in the starter rear cover and cut 1 little centering finger on the brusking frame
Then I ordered a HK2216 bearing from SKF brand.