Can you back a Supra up and turn?

[fungus]

Hi,
We went to try a Supra Boat out this weekend by renting one. The guy renting to boat said not to turn when going in reverse. About five minutes after the rental time started we found out why. After putting it in reverse the rudder was pulled into the prop. I have been around many boats and never had this kind of problem. Is this how the Supra is designed to work in reverse? It seems like the rudder should be conneted to the steering or something. Is there a problem with this boat for the boat to get this kind of damage? Can you normally turn a Supra in reverse?

[Jetlink]

Ok, all direct drive or stern drive boats only really "turn" and I use that word loosely, when put in reverse. It's actually quite simple really. In order for the rudder work effectively it needs to have water flowing across it and quite simply there isn't enough water going over the rudder in reverse. Now, as to why the boats back towards a certain side is whole different discussion.

[fungus]

Ok, but you Can you turn the steering wheel without damaging the rudder in reverse?

[2500HD]

The rudder should never be able to hit the prop. if it could then i would change careers and start making props.
In reverse my left hand rotation prop makes the boat back up to the drivers side unless i'm hauling ass in reverse. there are ways to deal with this but it does take a fair amount of practice. My main problem is when i'm loading onto the trailer and hit reverse at the wrong time and throw the boat out of wack but that's just driver error:)

[docdrs]

The only way the rudder will hit the prop in reverse is if something is broken or mal- functioning. When in reverse an inboard boat will want to move in the opposite side of propeller direction until enough water is flowing over the rudder , as mentioned above, to allow it to impact a directional force on the boat.

[Jetlink]

It's all about "P-factor" when it comes to why the boat backs to one side versus the other.

[fungus]

It's all about "P-factor" when it comes to why the boat backs to one side versus the other.

Can you be a little more specific on the questions detailed above?

[Jetlink]

Can you be a little more specific on the questions detailed above?

Well, the design of the rudder is such that more of the material is aft of the pivot point on the rudder so that the rudder wants to naturally streamline itself when the boat is going forward. The flip side is that when backing up and turning the rudder even a little bit off center the rudder wants to continue to travel in that direction until it touches the stop limit which is there to prevent the rudder from impacting the propeller.

As for the whole "P-factor" thing, that's a longer drawn out lesson than this one.

[jtomasik]

Well, the design of the rudder is such that more of the material is aft of the pivot point on the rudder so that the rudder wants to naturally streamline itself when the boat is going forward. The flip side is that when backing up and turning the rudder even a little bit off center the rudder wants to continue to travel in that direction until it touches the stop limit which is there to prevent the rudder from impacting the propeller.

As for the whole "P-factor" thing, that's a longer drawn out lesson than this one.

I did some snooping, and the P-Factor (per the always accurate and amazing Wiki...lol) is highly dependent on the angle of attack, which I don't think plays much into boating, but more so into aircraft. I'm thinking the rotation of the prop itself causes rotation (to some degree) of the water, and it's that direction of rotation that plays into the torque effects we feel both traveling backwards and forwards. 'Steering' my boat backwards is a combination of rudder and prop direction of rotation (bouncing back and forth from reverse to forwards and back again). I count on my boat pulling to the right in reverse, so whenever possible, I'll load it into the water with the dock on my left. However, yesterday I loaded with the dock on the right. Even so, carefully engaging/disengaging the prop while backing, and I made it past a docked boat and safely out past the dock.

However, like you said, stops should prevent the rudder from slamming into the prop. I can't turn my rudder into my prop, whether the boat's in reverse or forward. Something was screwed up with that boat is my guess...

[Salty87]

Check linkage control bar under back seat.

yes, rudder should not be able to spin a 360. something is wrong and the boat shouldn't have been rented in that condition. although you don't ever have terribly specific steering control in reverse you shouldn't be able to trash the prop either. steering in reverse is more finesse than control although with practice you can get really good at it.

[haugy]

I did some snooping, and the P-Factor (per the always accurate and amazing Wiki...lol) is highly dependent on the angle of attack, which I don't think plays much into boating, but more so into aircraft. I'm thinking the rotation of the prop itself causes rotation (to some degree) of the water, and it's that direction of rotation that plays into the torque effects we feel both traveling backwards and forwards. 'Steering' my boat backwards is a combination of rudder and prop direction of rotation (bouncing back and forth from reverse to forwards and back again). I count on my boat pulling to the right in reverse, so whenever possible, I'll load it into the water with the dock on my left. However, yesterday I loaded with the dock on the right. Even so, carefully engaging/disengaging the prop while backing, and I made it past a docked boat and safely out past the dock.

However, like you said, stops should prevent the rudder from slamming into the prop. I can't turn my rudder into my prop, whether the boat's in reverse or forward. Something was screwed up with that boat is my guess...


He's our resident pilot. Thus the aircraft term. :D

In short, the boat's rudder should NEVER go into the prop. It's a fixed point, and if it went into the prop, that boat has major issues.

There is an art to driving one of these boats, but nothing that an hour or two at a secluded dock practicing can't fix.

[DAFF]

Turning is EZ with a stiff port wind...... I've been driving these since 1989 and they are still comparable to a two button remote control car. I bet the rudder is out of alignment wrt the steering linkage.

[chris young]

Yup, I'm brand new to driving these beasts myself, and 5 minutes of practice out where I couldn't hit anything did a world of good for me. The key is if you want to back out straight is keep the wheel turned in the direction that the boat goes in reverse all the time. Then start moving in reverse, the stern will start to swing then give it a small bump in forward and the stern will straighten out. Repeat the process until you have reversed out to where you can let the stern swing where it wants to go and drive away. Within 5 minutes I had the hang of it pretty good, the problem is making this instinctive, give it too much throttle at any time and you're in trouble. I wouldn't want to be doing this in high winds with expensive boats on either side that's for sure. Everyone on this forum can do this far better than I, I'm sure, but that's the basics.

[jtomasik]

Chris has it right. Key is to take your time (go slow!), use a lot of reverse/neutral/forward changes with the prop, and it sure helps if you don't have any 'liquid courage' in you, too. I can place my boat pretty much anywhere safely and accurately.

[Rusty]

Ok.... I read this, then a few days later- IT HAPPENED TO ME!!! I had to slam reverse my 87 saltare fast because my partner didn't catch the nose as I was pulling into the loading dock. The force of the water pressure jammed the rudder. The steering wheel was stuck... So I jumped in and pulled on the rudder a little and knocked it loose. What a close call because I was about to man handle the steering wheel.

[chris young]

I discovered something with my Rider this weekend and I'm not sure if it was wind (there wasn't much) but it seemed if I went easy, with the wheel turned hard over to port, the boat would back pretty much straight, but I tried it later and it didn't work so well, so I'm not sure what was up with that. Lot's to learn yet.

[Rusty]

I discovered something with my Rider this weekend and I'm not sure if it was wind (there wasn't much) but it seemed if I went easy, with the wheel turned hard over to port, the boat would back pretty much straight, but I tried it later and it didn't work so well, so I'm not sure what was up with that. Lot's to learn yet.


Ya...I think because of such a tiny rudder for a CID- it seems a lot like to trying to steer the Titanic. Mine will turn in reverse but it's very laggy...it may take 15 seconds or so of reversing before I start to gain some direction. Just don't ever do what I did...slam on the throttle while the rudder is turned. That scared the crap out of me because I almost lost my 4th of July weekend....

[NorCalPR]

My Comp turns in reverse, but only to the starbord side.......

If I drive forward and turn left, then put it in reverse, the boat will stay in one spot and the back end will swing to the starbord side.


Nearly all DD's and V-drives do this. Mastercrafts and Nautiques usually turn to the port side in reverse because their props turn the other way...