Fake a lake 89 supra conbrio

[Thomasv]

Got my plunger in yesterday and pushed it up against the only intake hole i could find. Turned on the water and it came gushing out of the plunger as expected. Was told it would suck the plunger and create a vacuum once ai started the engine. This did not happen.
Possible reasons:
1. My trailer sits really low and i couldnt get the fake a lake all the under it which might be preventing it from creating the suction. I hope.
2. Could my impellar be bad and not sucking water through the intake?
3. Pump could also be bad?


I noticed a few tiny dribbles of water coming off 1 or 2 water lines so im hoping im not losing my suction of water there too. I have ordered new 1" water lines (8ft), impellar, and 3" exhaust hose .

The boat started up and ran great for about 10 seconds then died. I had to jump out of the boat to see jf it was taking the water but it wasnt so i tried to turn off my engine in time but it died beforei could kill it. Im hoping i didnt damage it but am fairly confident this resilient motor didnt overheat.

Would you guys recomnend buying a water cooling gasket kit if im changing the 3" and 1" hoses?

[jasun]

one thing to do also to test your water pump is to unhook the hose form the pickup and run it into a 5 gallon bucket of water. Start it up and see if the bucket goes down.

So with this setup, your water pump has a hose from it directly into the 5 gallon bucket.

[Thomasv]

I definitely will Jasun. Thanks for the tip. (:

[Thomasv]

Hmmm. Where exactly do i disconnect it from?
12688
Here? Or..

12689
Here...

I found a users manual but it doesnt have much detail about the engine parts or a breakdown.

[Thomasv]

And im not trying to get off topic but i noticed this wire hanging here. I dont see any where to connect it though. Any ideas?

12690

[TitanTn]

Hmmm. Where exactly do i disconnect it from?
12688


It's the hose in the background, middle-right. It is connected to a fitting that goes through the hull of the boat.

On another note, the fake-a-lake will not create a perfect vacuum, hence there will still be water leaking out around the seal even when the boat is running.

[Thomasv]

Thank you sir. I was concerned that i had no water coming out of my exhaust at all. Im gonna disconnect that hose to bypass the fake a lake and update this thread in a min

[jasun]

my hose goes from the water pump under the engine to the bottom of transmission cooler. it then goes to the top of the transmission cooler and hooks to the thru hull fitting that Titan is talking about.

[jasun]

Also, why did yo ubuy more 3" hose? do you have concern about what you currently have leaking?

[Thomasv]

Nope, the water level didnt go down even after 5 seconds of running the engine. 12691

[jasun]

have you taken the pump off at all? Mine did the same thing, took the pump off and blew in one side and had no resistance... changed the impeller and it did made all difference..

[Thomasv]

So im guessing the impeller is located right here... And im assuming this boat has a sherwood pump...
12692
I havent removed it yet but i will when i receive my impeller.
#0622 skidim.com. I grabbed a new gasket too.

[TitanTn]

That attachment didn't work.

The impeller housing is behind the pulley on the left when you're looking at the front of the engine.

[Thomasv]

Ok. I found it. (:
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/24/uqyze2eq.jpg
Thanks. Im on the right track for now.

[lively]

And im not trying to get off topic but i noticed this wire hanging here. I dont see any where to connect it though. Any ideas?

12690
its a ground , mines the same way .. not sweat just leave it .. or snip it back

[Thomasv]

Thanks lively. :)

[Thomasv]

Swapped out the impeller.... Got my engine to start once with the hose in a bucket of water as previously instructed. It seemed to me that instead of sucking the water in it blew it out... Is it possible to install it backwards??

[Thomasv]

Also, the old impeller had about 4 flaps missing. Could they be clogging up the lines and not allowing suction to happen?

[Jetlink]

It is entirely possible to install the impeller so that instead of drawing water towards the engine it draws it away from the engine. Pull your T-Stat from the housing and look for the old fins there first.

[Thomasv]

Ok. Let me try that. Thanks
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/07/27/6apy2u5u.jpg

Im thinking i need to undo both top allen head screws to remove the T stat.

[villain]

If it is pulling water from the engine, you have the two hoses on the pump backwards. Swap them and it should be good. It's always a good idea to go fishing for chunks of impeller when you find them missing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Thomasv]

12756
So if i am gathering all of what ur sayin.. I need to remove this and basically flip it 180 degrees. Right now, the word sherwood is on the outer edge when it should be visible on the inner side?

Damn. Im gonna have to just take it somewhere tomorrow to have a broken bolt removed. Snapped one of the heads clean off. :|

[Thomasv]

You know, you are absolutely right. I remember it comin off like that. I gotta start taking better pics before i dive into these projects because im just a computer guy. :) i cant believe i put it on backwards.

[Thomasv]

If i take the t housing off by removing the two allen head screws from the top will i have to resecure it with any sealent?

[TitanTn]

If i take the t housing off by removing the two allen head screws from the top will i have to resecure it with any sealent?

There should be a gasket there. No sealant. It's possible to reuse the gasket if it's in good condition, and it's also possible to use sealant if you don't have a gasket, but the gasket is the best option.

[Thomasv]

Thank you sir! I think i might be able to get one at napa.

[Thomasv]

Anyone got a part# for the thermostat and gasket? Gonna search the forums too. Or can u tell me how many degrees the thermostat needs to be rated for?

[Thomasv]

I found it from the user manual but we are still having a difficult time locating it.

[TitanTn]

They're typically anywhere from 140-160 degrees. You should pull out the old one and see what it is.

[Thomasv]

Well i got a replacement that is 180 and looks identical to the old one.

I pulled the pulley, sherwood housing, upper and lower t stats off to clean them up with a wire wheel. Im going to paint them next because im waiting on a new lower tstat gasket for reassembly.

Also gonna grab some emery cloth to clean out the inner portion of the sherwood just to ensure a smooth surface. There was quite a bit of pitting where most of my gaskets go so im planning on adding a thin thin layer of rtv to ensure a leak free system.

What i have not found yet is chunks of the old impeller. Is it possible they were simply passed through the system or do i need to keep probing?

12792

Stripped all the paint off the sherwood and i am prepping to repaint now. I cant tell if its actually copper or if its just a cast painted copper. Im thinking cast.

[TitanTn]

It's possible that they've passed through, or they could be in your exhaust manifold somewhere. What do you have for exhaust tips? Flappers or Trapps? If they're trapps, you might have some pieces back there.

[Thomasv]

I wanna say flappers. Would you paint the copper sherwood or just leave it copper?

[TitanTn]

I'd leave it.

[Thomasv]

Ok. Thanks.
Progress. ;)
12793

[Thomasv]

I thought this was kind of comical but i think i need a gasket or something to go with this thermostat dont i?

12794

Mr gasket?! There is no gasket mr gasket! (:

[Thomasv]

*decided to make my own gaskets. They wanted like 8 bucks + it was special order so they were trying to tack on 13 bucks for freight on a gasket. Wtf. Go home O reillys, youre drunk!

[TitanTn]

Good call. Let us know how it runs when you get it all back together.

[Blackntan90]

That Sherwood pump is easy to put on backwards... I have done it too many times! I would at least put a clear coat or two on the Sherwood as it is made of brass or bronze or nibral and will discolor if left natural, I like it though. I think your t-stat should not be rated higher than 160 degrees. As for emory on the inner surfaces, be careful - those pumps are expensive! I would probably start with 1500 paper and some elbow grease- and be careful- the material is soft!

[Thomasv]

Hmmm so you think i need to get my money back on the thermo? The guy at o reillys said thats what it called for. Guess its lowered rating for marine application?

[villain]

You should be able to ask for a 160* thermostat. At least my parts stores keep them in stock.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[Thomasv]

Ugh. I sure wish gary would have handed me the 160... Now i gotta build another gasket >< went back and swapped for the 160. Zzzz

[Thomasv]

12810

I took a pic of my engine with most of the excess stripped away. Im cleaning up the rust and repainting this area here. While removing the lower t stat i noticed the small hole on the left was calcified over. It kind of looked like the old gasket wasnt cut for the hole at all. Question: should i make a hole in my new gasket to match up perfectly? Or should i keep it covered like it was before?


Im also going to be removing the other 2 pulleys and am curious as to what i could jack up if i dont follow certain steps. Just trying to be cautious before i get in too deep.

[Thomasv]

I seem to be having issues determining exactly which hole I had my ground wire mounted to on my engine. I remember when i first replaced the wire.. The bolt went through the hole of the wire connector w no issues. Did i have it mounted to the lower arm on the alternator? Im pretty sure it was mounted on the next hole south of the lower arm but i swear i cant find the bolt that went in that hole. The only bolt that i have left over threads into the south hole but unfortunately its a taste too small and it has to be forced through the Connector hole as well.

[chris young]

polish that baby up, the impeller half is brass and it polishes up nicely, I did and now it's the prettiest thing on the boat. But then I had all winter to rebuild it so I kind of got carried away. It'll empty your bucket at idle in about 20 seconds.

This winter, the carb gets an overhaul
http://i.imgur.com/dHe7wCH.jpg?1

[TitanTn]

Very nice Chris!

[Thomasv]

Wow your pulley looks so much beefier than mine.

Im going to be replacing mine this winter. Care to share the info on your pulley setup?

[chris young]

Mine is overkill to be sure, you probably don't want it. It is actually a slightly wider belt groove than the original so the belt sits too low in the pulley. Not a real problem but it does wear the sides on the belt. I found the exact right one, at TSC as well as a few other places but shipping to Canada was so much that I could afford to buy this one locally for the same money. The exact one that came off my pump is here:

http://www.tractorsupply.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SearchDisplay?searchTermScope=&searchType=1000&filterTerm=&orderBy=&maxPrice=&showResultsPage=true&langId=-1&beginIndex=20&sType=SimpleSearch&metaData=&pageSize=20&searchPageType=&manufacturer=&resultCatEntryType=&catalogId=10051&pageView=image&searchTerm=&minPrice=&categoryId=241&storeId=10151&viewType=

It's available all over the states but impossible to find in Canada. I had to destroy the one on my pump to get it off so I had to replace it. I've been meaning to do a proper write up on how to do the overhaul on one of these things but I just got so busy I haven't had a chance. When you're ready to go let me know and I'll provide whatever help I can.

[chris young]

I forgot about this thread, if you're going to do a pump rebuild it's worth reading through, page 5 on has the bulk of the info you'll find useful.
https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?11370-Water-pump-won-t-prime!/page6&highlight=sherwood

[Thomasv]

Ok.., brand new impeller, hoses, clamps, thermostat, and gaskets.

When i hook up the fake a lake, it still isnt sucking in water. Engine starts, sounds great... Then dies out. The exhaust exits at the rear are bone dry.

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/18/a7ype8u2.jpg
Heres a pic to show the sherwoods orientation.


The thermostat was installed w the "cone" aimed south (towards radiator). Im hoping I installed something backwards for a fast fix but could i possibly need to replace the pully and assembly that connect to the sherwood?

[Thomasv]

Btw chris. Thanks very much for the thread. I will read it in its entirety soon. I scanned it briefly but havent had a chance to thoroughly digest it all. Is the black part the pump? I guess if its bot pumping in water it wont circulate it... Yea, im a noob. (:

Question:
** if you dissamble your upper and lower t stat housing and replace all your hoses... Do you have to "preload" or refill the upper hoses with water to help create suction again?

[Thomasv]

Btw chris. Thanks very much for the thread. I will read it in its entirety soon. I scanned it briefly but havent had a chance to thoroughly digest it all. Is the black part the pump? I guess if its not pumping in water it wont circulate it... Yea, im a noob. (:

Question:
** if you dissemble your upper and lower t stat housing and replace all your hoses... Do you have to "preload" or refill the upper hoses with water to help create suction again?

One of these days i will get this figured out lol

[chris young]

It's possible that you've installed it backwards. That is the correct orientation for my boat, but I don't know for sure if our engines spin the same way. Someone else may be able to tell us. I can't remember if mine is LH or RH and I don't know off hand what the Conbrio is. These pumps are a bit counter intuitive as to where in and out are. In the direction of rotation the water goes around the long way through the pump (I hope this makes sense) If you have a new impeller in there and you know the lines are clear it should suck no problem. Definitely didn't need to prime mine. While it's on the fake a lake, you could disconnect the output side hose at the engine and point it at a bucket and then you'd know for sure where your issue is. ie up or down stream from the pump. As for which way the T stat goes, I can never remember but a quick google will sort that out.

Good luck, keep us posted.

[Thomasv]

So is there is not a possibility that the actual impeller is installed backwards inside sherwood?

[chris young]

nope.

if everything is connected properly and turning in the right direction, and you still aren't sucking, then the only thing I can think of that could be wrong with that pump is the the impeller went on the shaft without a key, or the brass plate that separates the impeller section from the bearing section is missing and it's just not creating any suction. If you disconnect the top hose from the motor you should not be able to blow through the pump You can also loosen the drive belt and turn the pump by hand, It should take some effort and you should hear the impeller squeaking as you turn or disconnect the top hose from the pump to look inside and turn by hand, you should see the impeller moving.

[Thomasv]

Hmmm. I can hear and see the pump moving too. The plate is there and i put rtv under the o ring. I will have to do the blow test i suppose.

[chris young]

It's possible you've wrecked your new impeller. From what I've heard, they don't last long if they're spinning dry. I have no idea how long that is though.

Also you probably have a water strainer in line somewhere. at this point, you need to get water into that pump, so I would go straight from the bucket into the intake of the pump with whatever hose arrangement you can find. If it's not pulling from there, I'd be very surprised.

[Thomasv]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/20/hymuhyve.jpg
Im confused, should i put water in here?


http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/20/du2a8a6a.jpg
Is this the strainer? Im thinking i need to introduce the water after this part to test whether or not this part might be blocking my inc flow. Am i close?

[Thomasv]

The impeller still looks good btw

[Thomasv]

Ugh. Ok. Im wrong as hell! Lol. Ok so thats not a strainer and i see that it supplies pitot-static inputs to the tranny... But im still not sure what it is.

i forgot to mention that i was unable to blow through the top hose connected to the sherwood. It held pressure really well.

[villain]

That silver round thing is your tranny oil cooler.

[Thomasv]

Ahhh that makes sense. Tyvm

[Thomasv]

So just to make certain, you dont have to prime the hoses with water right?

I have 3-4 people that ask me if i primed it with water first. Granted, they dont normally work on boats but they are mechanics. Way more than myself. ;)

[villain]

You dont need to prime it. Just make sure the impeller is lubed well. I like to use hand soap.

[Thomasv]

Im gonna remove the hose on top and drop some vasoline in that way. I dont want to pull it off again and wait for the rtv to dry

[villain]

Don't use petroleum products, it will soften the rubber over time and will never wash off completely. Squirt some boat soap, hand soap? Or some dish soap. They all wash off quickly web the water starts flowing and lubricate really well. I have a buddy that likes to use water based personal lubricant. But his wife works at an adult toy store and has stock piles of the stuff.

[TitanTn]

Don't use petroleum products, it will soften the rubber over time and will never wash off completely. Squirt some boat soap, hand soap? Or some dish soap. They all wash off quickly web the water starts flowing and lubricate really well. I have a buddy that likes to use water based personal lubricant. But his wife works at an adult toy store and has stock piles of the stuff.

I had to read that second to last sentence 3 times, and I still wasn't quite sure what you meant until I finally read the last sentence!

[villain]

Hahaha!! That's funny. He says it works great!

[DAFF]

Wonder if the icy hot would improve the boats performance??

[Thomasv]

Buhahaha. I dont have any adult lube left (yea i used it all w my last gf) but i do have wd40 in the yellow top that states it is a lubricant (opposed to the red top 'degreaser'). Do you think that would work fine? Ive already sprayed it on when i last reinserted it and mounted the sherwood...so if you say its bad its too late! ;)

[Thomasv]

It's possible you've wrecked your new impeller. From what I've heard, they don't last long if they're spinning dry. I have no idea how long that is though.

Also you probably have a water strainer in line somewhere. at this point, you need to get water into that pump, so I would go straight from the bucket into the intake of the pump with whatever hose arrangement you can find. If it's not pulling from there, I'd be very surprised.


As far as i know, my boat lacks a water strainer.
It comes in from the lake, goes to the tranny oil cooler and then feeds into the sherwood. The brass plate is in place and i cannot blow air into the sherwood. It definitely was keyed in when installed and definitely spin when hand cranking.

[chris young]

All the i's are dotted and t's are crossed. At this point I would put the bottom hose straight into a bucket, and disconnect the top hose from the manifold and point it into a bucket. Pour a bit of water down both the intake and outflow hoses ( shouldn't need it but it cant' hurt) and then crank her up to see what happens. The only other thing that I can think of is that you have the wrong impeller, did you have to bend all the flaps when you installed it? it should have looked like this;http://i.imgur.com/0ykSwrz.jpg The only other thing that could be wrong is the cam is missing, but the screw that holds it in is visible on your pump and that could only be true if the cam was in there.

BTW the best way to do a bucket for these tests is to put a hose fitting in to the bottom side of the bucket so you don't have to extend the hose or tip the bucket in some funky way.

Good luck

[ts6mnewbie]

I would also check to make sure that nothing got sucked up and is stuck in the trans cooler. Pull off the top hose and look down inside to check for anything blocking water flow.

[Thomasv]

Love these responses. Chris i will try that later and yes, i lubed up the impeller to install it because it was such a tight fit. They definitely had to bend to go in.

What is this cam you speak of?

I will check the oil cooler later to check for blockage as well and run these tests w the bucket. Thanks guys!

[chris young]

If you look at the photo in my post, the cam is the lump in the bore of the pump basically right above the wrench in the photo. It makes the vanes compress in order to create pressure and vacuum as they pass by the outflow and intake ports.

[Thomasv]

The oil cooler is clear.
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/7use7aja.jpg

One more thing down.

Also, i feel dumb lol. Yes the cam and key were there. ;)

Now, I think you are telling me disconnect the hose right after the cooler and put it in a bucket? And you said disco the top hose at the manifold too. Im a little confused on which ones to pull. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/08/23/7ezu4e8a.jpg

Please point it out to make it retard proof for me :D

[villain]

Check the water grate in the hull. Sometimes chunks will make there way all the way to there.

[Thomasv]

Check the water grate in the hull. Sometimes chunks will make there way all the way to there.

I bypassed the grate by taking the hose thats connected to the 90 elbow off and putting it in a bucket. Is that good enough?

[villain]

For testing purposes it is good

[Thomasv]

Roger. I will be sure its cleared before giving the all clear.

[Thomasv]

Considering rebuilding the pump. Read page 5 finally. Nice breakdown! I dont know if the pump is the issue or not but i see where someone else brought up "priming" the engine. Hmmmm

[chris young]

What you want to accomplish is isolating the pump as good or bad. So if you still have all the old hoses it may be easier to use one of those for the bottom one rather than pulling it at the oil cooler. But whichever way you choose you need the hose going to the bottom (intake) of the pump into your full bucket (preferably with a fitting on the bottom of the bucket as discussed earlier) That's the hose in the very bottom of your photo. Then take the outlet hose which is the one currently disconnected in the photo and point it into the top of the bucket and start her up. If you set it up with your bucket on the starboard side of the engine, then you can use the same bucket to draw from and fill. I would definitely do this before rebuilding the pump.

Hope this helps, good luck

[Thomasv]

Ok. I thought thats what i was being directed to do. So this will tell me which direction its oulling the water and if its even pulling anything right?

Im also assuming I have to make sure i dont run the engine too long either since the water wonr be cooling the engine.

[Thomasv]

]Ok. I thought thats what i was being directed to do. So this will tell me which direction its pulling the water and if its even pulling anything right?

Im also assuming I have to make sure i dont run the engine too long either since the water wonr be cooling the engine.

[chris young]

It'll take a while to heat up enough that you should shut it down without proper cooling. I can't say how long but easily 2 or 3 minutes if you want to be safe.

[Thomasv]

Update: took it into a shop today for some TLC. I already knew i was a crappy mechanic... At this rate id never get done.

Just want to say thank you for all the advice and help so far. Im going to be there while the mechanic does the work so i can learn at the same time. The mechanic encourages it. :)

[TitanTn]

Sorry it wasn't an easy fix, but I'm sure the trip to the mechanic will be educational. Let us know what happens.

[Thomasv]

Weelllllll the tech says that when i added some rtv in the o ring to the sherwood it caused it not to make a good seal. So, tomorrow he is going to make a new gasket for the sherwood and reinstall it. Hopefully that does the trick!

I will keep you all updated. (:

[Thomasv]

Does anyone know how thick the paper gasket is on the sherwood? Its the only thing keeping me off the water this labor day weekend. I went to the auto parts store and grabbed Karropak Tan Fiber which is 1/64. Im afraid that it may be too thick.


So im hoping 1/64th will work...