Prop Specs ONLY

[SquamInboards]

The idea is that this thread could become sticky, and act as a resource for information about props. It seems like there are a lot of people asking about props for different applications, different watersports, amounts of ballast, etc. and the same information gets repeated a lot.

So please keep responses limited to propeller-specific discussions, and tell us ALL of the following:


Boat Info:

Year
Make
Model
Length

Drivetrain Info:

Engine / HP
Transmission (ratio, e.g. 1:1)
Prop Specs: part # and/or Diameter, Pitch, Blades, Cup

Performance / Usage

WOT RPM
What do you use the boat for?
How much ballast, if any?
Difference between loaded / unloaded if applicable?



Did I miss anything? Is that too much information?

I'll put mine out there in any case:

Boat:
1989 Supra Bravura 21'

Engine:
PCM 351 / GT-40 / 310hp
1.23:1 transmission
Acme 1868 Prop: 12.5x14.25 4-blade .075 cup

Performance / Usage:
4700 RPM WOT with no ballast / no passengers. 41 mph.
Various watersports: skiing, wakeskating, some surfing, lots of just cruising.
Boat performs okay with 1500lbs ballast or ~10 people which is all you can fit anyway.
Prop could/should be lower pitch if I ran it loaded all the time, but I am more often with 1-2 people than loaded.

Other props I've tried:
Acme 422 ran only 4300 RPM WOT (12.5x15.5 4-bld .105 cup)
Acme 654 ran about 4500 RPM WOT (12.5x15 4-bld .105 cup)

[2500HD]

Elevation 8200ft
1989 supra saltare

Engine:
pcm 454/330hp
1:1 transmission
Acme 913 prop 13x10.5 3-blade .060 cup

Performance/Usage:
4100 RPM WOT with no ballast no people. 31 mph.
4100 RPM WOT 3 people. 30 mph
mainly surfing with 1700lbs ballast and 3 people......no problem out of the hole and can still get on plane at 27 mph.
My old oem style prop with ballast and people could not get on plane.
For my elevation, this prop rocks!!!!

[cadunkle]

1989 Supra Saltare
PCM 454 330 HP - rebuilt by previous owner unknown what has been changed or any increases in power
Velvet Drive 1:1 transmission
Acme 541 13x12 3 blade CNC .080" cup

4700 RPM WOT 43 MPH - No ballast, driver only, tank mostly full
2500 RPM 22 MPH

Boat is used primarily for wakeboarding, kneeboarding and occasional skiing
Under 2 seconds to 20 MPH
Have not pulled anyone with this prop yet, but I expect it will do just fine holding speed and pulling rider with typical ballast I run (400-800 lbs and typically 3 people in the boat. Switched from old cast OJ 14x13 hoping for some small improvements in performance and economy as per what several here have reported. Disappointed with top speed so may end up changing to another prop.

[inair]

1991 Supra Sunsport
PCM Ford 351 factory 230 HP. Currently 840hrs HP?
Tranny 1.123:1
Acme 668 4 Blade, 12.5X15.5 CNC .150 cup

Performance/Usage
4000 RPM WOT Two people in boat no ballast Full Gas Tank 43 MPH unverified

Boat is used primarily for boarding with up to 450lb of ballast and skiing.
Pulls very strong for skiing and boarding. Unknown how it would do with surf ballast.
The reason I changed props was that I couldn't seem to get the old one balanced and had a lot of vibration.
Did my research before buying. Learned a lot about prop theory but ended up buying a prop that was recommended by Nettles Props instead of the the one my calculation said was right. Prop theory says a 4 blade is less efficient than a 3 blade but easier to keep in balance. Also prop theory says I'm over propped (too much pitch and cup). But I'm happy with it so far. If I tried surfing I don't know but I hope to find out!

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb375/kennash737/DSC_0524.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/kennash737/media/DSC_0524.jpg.html)

[Kip]

1988
Supra Mariah
21 ft.

351W 775 hours
1:1

old Michigan Wheel
14x11 .080 cup
WOT RPM 3800
WOT MPH 37
Worked ok for boarding and skiing slow to get out of the hole
We run 1600lbs for surfing and that definitely made it struggle.

NEW PROP
Acme 1225 13x10.5 .150 cup
WOT RPM 4200
WOT MPH 39
Much stronger out of the hole for boarding and skiing plus better top speed
surfing with 1600 lbs much better out of the hole and doesn't seem to bog the engine down as much. Seems to be much easier to hold speed while surfing. 2100 RPM @ 10MPH

[SquamInboards]

Thanks for contributing! I hope this thread can continue to build, and help people out who are looking to upgrade, rather than having 20 people speculating about what will work. I realized I can add another boat to this; my father in law has an '89 Comp with an Acme 1868, which is the same prop as mine but his boat is quite a bit different.

1989 Supra Comp

Engine:
PCM 351W ~240hp (bone stock, approx. 900 hours)
1.23:1 transmission
Acme 1868 Prop: 12.5x14.25 4-blade .075 cup

Performance / Usage:
4300 RPM WOT with no ballast / no passengers. ~44 mph although I have not GPS verified this.

This boat is basically a cruiser and almost never used for skiing, and never runs any ballast, ever. Usually 1-3 people on board. It has great hole shot, and fantastic throttle response throughout the RPM range.

[Wulphie]

1987 Supra Pirata

Mercruiser MIE 454 rated at 340 hp Engine is definitely tuned more for midrange torque than high rpm hp.

1:1 transmission

I originally had a 14x12 3 blade prop that I bought locally to get a base line to decide what prop setup would fit my needs the best. (the merc I repowered with is rh rotation)
The 3 blade was horrible, the slip numbers I was getting were in the 25% to 28% range and the resulting air in the prop wash made the boat drive terribly, the rudder was not very effective. At slalom speeds the stern of the boat was so loose it made it near impossible to run the course. 3,750 rpm at 32 mph.

I picked up a 4 blade solas 13x13 rh. My slip numbers are down around the 13% to 15% range now. The prop wash has so much less air that the boat tracks great and turns much better. Piece of cake to run the course, all around drive ability is improved. I think I will keep the boat, where before I was ready to sell it haha.

2600 rpm 28 mph

3000 rpm 32 mph

3500 rpm 36.5 mph

I only had 2 350# sacs loaded to do some boarding because the water was shallow but the boat pulls you up without really getting into the throttle, pretty effortless. Pulling up on a slalom ski is great because there is so little flare in the engine rpm, you can just bring the rpm up to 3,000 or 3,100 and go, no revving the engine up and then backing it down as the speed builds.

Seat of the pants tells me that this prop will probably use slightly more gas because of the additional drag in the water, but it is a worth while trade off for drive ability.

I should also add that I didn't run a wot high speed test because it was a windy trip to our ski spot and didn't want to break the boat in half haha

[Cusefan78]

1995 labrisa
Gt40 pro boss 320hp
1.1 tranny
20.5'
Acme 541 prop
49.6 mph GPS wot
No ballast
Slalom skiing
Oem prop was a 4 blade on cast 13x13
Was looking for better hole shot and top end. Gained around 5 mph

[rdvanput]

Hi all, recently purchased a 1990 20' Supra Sunsport with PCM Ford 351 factory 230 HP. 475 hrs on engine. I have the 1:1 tranny. This is the first boat I've owned, although been around boats most of my life. Still, learning a ton of new info. This is exactly the post I was looking for so thanks to SquamInboards for initiating it. I will be using the boat mostly for skiing and wake boarding and just all around cruising. I know I have a three blade prop and I believe it's OEM, but sorry I don't have other details. I'd really like to know what others would recommend for my boat and usage. Thanks!

[SquamInboards]

Hi all, recently purchased a 1990 20' Supra Sunsport with PCM Ford 351 factory 230 HP. 475 hrs on engine. I have the 1:1 tranny. This is the first boat I've owned, although been around boats most of my life. Still, learning a ton of new info. This is exactly the post I was looking for so thanks to SquamInboards for initiating it. I will be using the boat mostly for skiing and wake boarding and just all around cruising. I know I have a three blade prop and I believe it's OEM, but sorry I don't have other details. I'd really like to know what others would recommend for my boat and usage. Thanks!

How's this for a delayed response?

Looks like the user above, 'Kip' has a similar boat, and the same engine/transmission. I'd call Acme or Skidim with that info and see what they think, but I'd look at the one Kip used (above in this thread).

Then, let us know what you end up with!

[rdvanput]

Thanks! I now realized I made an error in my original post. I have the PCM 40A transmission (1.23:1). Everything else is correct. Current prop is a 14x14 RH 3 blade ni-bral

[SquamInboards]

Ah, that makes sense, most of these boats (Correct Craft too) switched to the 1.23 in 1989.

I can't recall if it's been emphasized here, but you should definitely know that a new CNC prop will be smaller in diameter and possibly pitch, too. This is largely because the overall surface area is so much greater within the circumference of the prop. Does that make sense? I went from a 14x16 to a 12.5x14.25 (however, the prop had been rebuilt and material removed so the actual outside diameter measurement was more like 13". I took a picture comparing an old prop to a new one side-by-side, I'll post it here if I can find it.

[UKandH]

Resurrecting the old thread again.

1993 TS6M Comp
285 HP HO BOSS, GT head version with carb
1:1

Current prop is
13x13 original but is giving me poor hole shot and severe vibration compared to my friends TS6 Comp Classic.

Just ordered an ACME 541 13x12 0.08 cup

Used for Skiing, Slalom, Trick, Jump...very occasional wakeboarding....ABSOLUTELY NO BALLAST :D, 2 fat knackers in the boat is enough

Will post comparison when completed.

[UKandH]

1993 TS6M Comp
285 HP HO BOSS, GT head version with carb
1:1
LH Rotation

Right just fitted the new prop.

Old spec was

13 x 15 OJ prop
WOT 3800 RPM
42mph via GPS
Hole shot was poor.
Serious vibration on accel and cruise.

New spec

ACME 541 13 x 12 0.08 cup on a 1" shaft (good deal and great service from WakeMakers)...delivery to the UK within a week of order.
WOT 4300 RPM
V Max 44 mph via GPS with 2 passengers on board.
Hole shot ... OMG...takes off like a scalded cat with a rocket up its butt :O. I will time the 0 to vmax time later this week
Absolutely no vibration at all.

Wake seems very similar to before, no change in rooster position and no adjustment to wake plate.

Gotta love this prop :)

[Foe]

1983 Supra Sport
PCM Engine 260hp
Velvet drive 1:1 gear ratio

Old prop:
Federal Supercup 13x13 nibral

with approx. 1500lbs ballast very bad performance, poor hole shot, massive vibrations, wake was washed out
WOT 3900 rpm @ 40mph

new prop ACME 541 13x12 3-blade
feels like a new boat, no vibrations at all, excellent hole shot, better/cleaner/longer surf wake
WOT 4200rpm @ 40mph

ordered prop at nettleprops, shipping time 10 days to Germany.

We are super happy with the purchase!

cheers Flo

[LCYrace]

1987 Supra TS6m
351w, GT40p heads, Performer RPM intake, Edlebrock 1410
Velvet Drive 1:1

Acme 541 13x12 3-blade
Great holeshot, great ski wake, great fuel economy
WOT 4500~4600rpm @ 44-45mph depending on conditions and passengers

$369 from Wake Makers!!!!

[gnarlydude]

1991 Supra Sunsport
PCM Ford 351 factory 230 HP. Currently 840hrs HP?
Tranny 1.123:1
Acme 668 4 Blade, 12.5X15.5 CNC .150 cup

Performance/Usage
4000 RPM WOT Two people in boat no ballast Full Gas Tank 43 MPH unverified

Boat is used primarily for boarding with up to 450lb of ballast and skiing.
Pulls very strong for skiing and boarding. Unknown how it would do with surf ballast.
The reason I changed props was that I couldn't seem to get the old one balanced and had a lot of vibration.
Did my research before buying. Learned a lot about prop theory but ended up buying a prop that was recommended by Nettles Props instead of the the one my calculation said was right. Prop theory says a 4 blade is less efficient than a 3 blade but easier to keep in balance. Also prop theory says I'm over propped (too much pitch and cup). But I'm happy with it so far. If I tried surfing I don't know but I hope to find out!

http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/bb375/kennash737/DSC_0524.jpg (http://s1202.photobucket.com/user/kennash737/media/DSC_0524.jpg.html)



Hey, just trying to make contact with other people with 91 Sunsports. You still have yours?

[SquamInboards]

Saw this link in another thread, it's a nice resource:

https://www.wakemakers.com/supra-wakeboard-boat-propellers

[Poorhouse]

1986 Supra Sunsport
240 HP 351
1:1
LH Rotation

Old prop was the original OJ. Slight vibration. I though it performed well but had no point of reference. We bought the boat this spring. My first experience with boats.
Had read many posts praising Acme props and people saying they with they had bought one sooner. Decided why wait?


New Prop.

ACME 543 from Nettle.
Quick shipping, good service and a free t-shirt.

We are skiers, no ballast. Decided on the 543 due to our elevation. Lakes we frequent are between 3000' and 5000'.

As stated above by UKandH:

Hole shot ... OMG...takes off like a scalded cat with a rocket up its butt
Absolutely no vibration at all.

I agree with this 100%. The change in acceleration is very noticeable. Both hole shot and when already cruising. Plus it is super smooth.

[inair]

Yes, gnarly I still have this set up. For my tranny (same as yours) and what we do with the boat it is great. really good hole shot even with 450 lb sack and 4 or five people. We ski and wake board with it and its been great. Just came home from the Southern Supra reunion; what a blast!

[Larrys21V]

Hi all, recently purchased a 1990 20' Supra Sunsport with PCM Ford 351 factory 230 HP. 475 hrs on engine. I have the 1:1 tranny. This is the first boat I've owned, although been around boats most of my life. Still, learning a ton of new info. This is exactly the post I was looking for so thanks to SquamInboards for initiating it. I will be using the boat mostly for skiing and wake boarding and just all around cruising. I know I have a three blade prop and I believe it's OEM, but sorry I don't have other details. I'd really like to know what others would recommend for my boat and usage. Thanks!


Hi Rob

I hope all is going well with the SunSport! Every time I cross the wake of my 21V I miss your boat! The two props I gave with are both stock. you are correct. My understanding is that you wont find a prop that makes the boat go faster (due to Hull design). There may be a power prop available for wakeboarding, but I don't think you would need it unless you've added ballast bags to the boat. Not sure what you are looking to do. But I had 10 people in the boat and pull 3 skiers out.

Unfortunately, I don,t think you'll find a prop to make it go faster than 43 MPH due to hull design. Also I'd not mess with the RPMs if someone recommends that. I hope your enjoying the boat, I'm getting my out a lot this summer!

[korey]

Wanted to add my experience here

Boat Info: 1986 Supra Saltare, 22' open bow

Drivetrain Info: 454ci/330hp PCM 1:1 direct drive 1200+ hours

Prop Specs: ACME 209 4 Blade 13" x 12.5" 0.080 cup

Performance / Usage:
WOT unloaded: 4500RPM at 37.5MPH (ridesteady digital readout, GPS)
11.2MPH at ~2600RPM with ~1900lb ballast and wake sharper for surfing. Seems like it's working pretty hard, nearly not doable with more than 3 extra bodies onboard. No chance in the world of getting on plane with that weight.

Seems to cruise pretty happily unloaded at 2600RPM at 25-26MPH. Fuel consumption makes it seem like it's not in the secondaries of the carb, therefore fairly economical.

Switching to Acme 1229 (13x11 80 cup) this week to help ease load on the aging old girl while surfing. Hopefully I can avoid letting her spin too many R's when unloaded.

[korey]

Tried the 1229 out this weekend, and LOVE it! It's 13x11" 0.080" cup 3 blade.

WOT Unloaded: 4600RPM at 41.0MPH. Yes, it sped up and only turns 100 more R's than my old 209. I don't quite understand it, but it's true! The boat is "throw you out of the observer's seat" fast out of the hole now.

Surfed great with 1900lbs + 4 dudes all day. Decided to throw the long rope in with surf weight at the end of the day, and had NO PROBLEM getting on plane with 1900lbs of ballast and 4 dudes. I was blown away!

I don't love turning this old engine more RPMs all the time, but it sure does feel good...

[Zkdk3000]

Tried the 1229 out this weekend, and LOVE it! It's 13x11" 0.080" cup 3 blade.

WOT Unloaded: 4600RPM at 41.0MPH. Yes, it sped up and only turns 100 more R's than my old 209. I don't quite understand it, but it's true! The boat is "throw you out of the observer's seat" fast out of the hole now.

Surfed great with 1900lbs + 4 dudes all day. Decided to throw the long rope in with surf weight at the end of the day, and had NO PROBLEM getting on plane with 1900lbs of ballast and 4 dudes. I was blown away!

I don't love turning this old engine more RPMs all the time, but it sure does feel good...


It appears everyone is going to a 3 blade - even those that have always sworn by a 4 blade. Would you still say there is a considerably large positive difference between old 4 and new 3 for all around performance?

[SquamInboards]

It appears everyone is going to a 3 blade - even those that have always sworn by a 4 blade. Would you still say there is a considerably large positive difference between old 4 and new 3 for all around performance?

You'll feel a big difference going from ANY older-style prop to a new CNC prop, so long as it's a good match for your drivetrain. I think the old 4-blades were known for having better hole shot than the equivalent 3-blade, but now the difference is less between the two, so long as you're comparing CNC to CNC. It's like, different brands of snow tires perform differently on snow, but they're ALL better than any all-season tire.

[korey]

One of the many factors that I've been told (and backed up by my machining experience) is that in the beginning of CNC machined props, the fixturing and wild 6 axis toolpaths to required create a 3 blade prop (where the leading edge of one blade overlapped the trailing edge of the next) was not feasible to machine in one setup and harder to keep balanced. 4 blade props were easier to machine at the time because the blades did not overlap as severely. Since that time, advances in CNC machining techniques have made machining the wild features required to have overlapping blades on a 3 blade prop more economical and less risky. A three blade has a little more surface area than the equivalent four, as well as a little more cross section in the weaker areas that will make the prop more rigid (performance wise) as well as more resistant to major damage. The "myth" that a 4 blade is more balanced still floats around out there from the "old days" (we're talking the late 90's here) of CNC props. I'd bet my beer money that I couldn't tell the difference of equivalently sized 3 vs 4 blade props on my boat though.

Either of these are light years ahead of cast props from the 80's like many of our boats came equipped with from the factory.

[mbraun55]

purchased in fall - only ran to test drive... picking up in a week - concerned!!!

1990 comp ts6m
351w
1:1 I think
prop unknown - has spare

problem I have is during the test drive - 3800 rpm WOT and 38 mph was the max!!! I need more... hole shot was strong so i'm hoping I can change prop and gain a little top end but my concern is the wot at 3800 rpm seems low for a 351w...

I understand there are A LOT of factors that could effect this including but not limited to - bad fuel, dirty carb, bent prop (was so excited I was buying I never even looked - my bad) low compression (ran smooth) - what else could it be??? wrong prop size? best stock prop suggestion (what should the prop be???)

[Jetlink]

Could be a calibration issue with both as well. Just throwing that out there.

[scbowles]

91 Pirata
new reman 454 gen V with Edelbrock Performer Intake Manifolds 2561. Tbi Marine conversion. Ports matched. fresh air exhaust.
72c velvet drive 1,1
Acme 4 blade 14 x 12 #3033 .60 cup.
2000 rpm 17 mph
2200 rpm 24 mph
2800 rpm 30 mph
3000 rpm 32 mph
3400 rpm 34 mph
3600 rpm 37 mph
4200 rpm 41 mph
Using dual GPS speedometers.

[nboardskier]

1986 Sunsport Skier - 19'

351W / 230hp?
1:1 Velvet Drive
Acme 543 - 13x11.5 - .080" cup

WOT 4200rpm - 42mph. 2 adults aboard.

Use = wakeboarding and slalom
No Ballast

[Mgruenenwald]

New to the forums here, I have a 1989 Pirata 351 that I’m hoping to turn into a respectable surf boat. Recently damaged the stock 3 blade prop and now it shudders when weighted down with 2500 pounds and a surf shaper. Any recommendations on what prop to go with as an upgrade? Not concerned about top speed. I believe I have a 1” shaft, but am not entirely sure. Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

[mikestanley464]

A propeller is a device with a rotating hub and radiating blades that are set at a pitch to form a helical spiral, that, when rotated, performs an action which is similar to Archimedes' screw. It transforms rotational power into linear thrust by acting upon a working fluid, such as water or air.[1] The rotational motion of the blades is converted into thrust by creating a pressure difference between the two surfaces. VidMate (https://vidmateapp.win/)
VidMate for PC (https://vidmateapp.win/vidmate-for-pc/) | Canli Mac izle (https://canlimacizle.red/)

[dsthomas05]

Boat:
2007 Supra Launch 20SSV

Engine:
Indmar MPI-325
1.45:1 Transmission
13.5x17.5 4-blade, unknown cup

Performance:
4800 RPM WOT / 41mpg (unverified)
no ballast, wake plate at 50%, 2-3poeple + gear
Boat is used for skiing, wakeboarding, and surfer
Hole shot for skiing is pretty good, I don't give full throttle to most people
planing full loaded (1200lbs ballast plus 4 adults) is a little slow but it gets there
The top end doesn't seem much affected by the number of people, it seem like it will always do 39-41mpg


rpm/mph (wake plate 100% down)
3000/28
3500/32.5
4000/36
-> wake plate at 50% normally gives you 1-2mph at any RPM

I'm thinking about getting ACME 1591 14x16, 0.135 cup to see if I can gain a little on the bottom end without losing much on the top end or having a really high RPM when waterskiing.

Side note: Has anyone compiled this data?

A summary would be fantastic for anyone looking at getting a new prop.

[rcooley]

I have a 2008 20 SSV with almost the same specs. I need to replace my prop. Did you upgrade yours as you mentioned? If you did how do you like it?