Motor decisions.....

[Endo]

In the middle of trying to revive the 88 Saltare I ran into a little snag. The 454 was recently rebuilt prior to me getting the boat because of a cracked block, but had some issues. Started getting a tick from the top end so I pulled valve cover and everything seemed good. But still had tick. Being a little nervous about the motor I decided to pull it and tear it down for inspection. Found a bent push rod plus, rod and main bearings shot. Luckily no spun bearings. So hopefully, get the crank turned, new bearings and seals, the bottom end should be done. The top end is where I am a little undecided on. Everything intake wise is stock. I am thinking of possibly going with a Edelbrock kit (carb, intake, cam). Versus sticking with the old manifold, carb and new cam. Also probably going to do a little vanity work also and get the exhaust powder-coated. But never mind that. Who has any recommendations on intake set ups? Stick with stock and rebuild the holley? Go with the Edelbrock kit? Anything else out there? My end goal is to have a smooth running boat that has plenty of low end power, low maintenance, and an engine that looks as good as it runs.

[wotan2525]

My boast came to me with an Edelbrock Performer intake and an Edelbrock 650cfm carb. I've never had a moment of problem with either of them.....

[jasun]

Holley people will say rebuild...

I had the 4160 on my salt and am never so happy to have put the Eldelbrock on it. I dont have the intake, but have had 0 issues (knocking on wood) with the Edelbrock. Runs smooth and no maintenance.

[DAFF]

EFI - Would be very slick. I bet it would be in the same price range too. As for the cam I would leave it stock.

[Moor]

I have to admit, i am still running the stock intake and holly on my 454, but my fist power upgrades to it would be an Eldelbrock performer intake and 750cfm carb. i put the performer intake, cam and carb on my olds 455 and it woke it right up. i've run Eldelbrocks in place of holley's on a few other V8's, i'd dump the holley any day over a well tuned Eldelbrock, difference is night and day imo...

[cadunkle]

I would do some performance improvements while it's apart. Edelbrock Performer intake, Holley 750 CFM double pumper, and Comp marine cam (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/cca-cl11-232-3). I wouldn't run an Edelbrock, just not as good of a design as Holley for getting max power and quick and easy tunability. Don't listen to the Holley bashers, they're replacing clapped out 20-30 year old Holleys which likely have worn base plates, maybe not rebuilt recently, if rebuilt wear items may not have been replaced, etc. with brand new Edelbrock and of course driveability will improve. Personally all my vehicles are big blocks and have Holleys, trouble free operation.

I would also do some head work while it's apart. Port the heads. I'm a Ford guy so can't tell you where the 454 heads on these boats need the most work but I'd focus on the bowl area and work the short turn to make it more gentle. Check on some Chevy forums to find out exactly what needs work and how close you are to water. It's free horsepower, every engine I build gets at least a mild port cleanup.

I'll plug myself a bit here, but if you need a carb I have a low hours rebuilt 800 CFM Holley marine double pumper for sale. 800 is a little overkill but I run an 800 on my Saltare with 454 and it performs well.

[villain]

How's the fuel bill with that 800?

[cadunkle]

About 5 GPH Saturday mostly running ~22 MPH. I was kind of shocked as it's usually 6 and change. Did not run any ballast though and 1/4 of our riding was with a kid at 18 MPH. I figure the slower speed pulling the kid lowered fuel consumption. This is also the first time I ran my hours and gallons since getting a new prop, Acme 13x12 3 blade. I'm sure I could shave a bit off the GPH by jetting leaner as I ballparked the jetting and plugs look right so have spent my time riding rather than tuning, but I should dial it in some time.

[jasun]

Don't listen to the Holley bashers,

Im not bashing Holley... Just saying my experience. I have also yet to hear of someone having trouble with an Edelbrock and fixing it by switching to a Holley... Just saying...:p

[Moor]

I'm not bashing holley's cadunkle, i have a freshly rebuilt holley on my Sunsport and it works great, never a hiccup or a stumble (after i got done tuning it, the p/o didn't know carbs). if i want all out power, Holley may be a better choice. But if im not at a drag strip, and im not concerned about the extra 3hp i MIGHT get at WOT, I'll take the smooth power application and driveablilty of an Eldelbrock carb. plus i dont spill gas all over if i need to change a needle or jet, and i bet i can change them faster on My Edelbrock than on my Holley.

I wouldnt bother with a cam change unless you plan on a better intake and carb to take advantage of the bigger cam. The link that cadunkle provided looks like a good choice, bigger than stock but not too big. if the heads are off then a little backyard pocket porting could give you some extra power. Be careful, i've seen people ruin their heads because they didn't know what they were doing when it comes to porting. If you don't have the heads off, and dont plan on removing them, id leave it be for now. you should be able to see a decent power increrase with cam, intake and carb upgrades.....

[Endo]

Quick update. Found out why previous owner was having valve issues and why I found the bent pushrod. When they did the previous rebuild they kept original valve springs and they couldn't handle the lift of the cam (comp cam extreme marine). So heads are getting redone with the right springs. Also going to go with the edelbrock performer intake and carb.

[92SupraComp]

Why are you guys running only 650 cfm on a 454? They should have a 750 cfm Rochester on there... Love the sound of a rochester opening up...

also, check these out:
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/carburetors-marine-series/

They are a Holley Design, only Fully adjustable. 4 Corner idle, Bowl Sight glasses, adjustable vacuum secondaries, etc...
Guys at CCFan like em...

[Moor]

Quick update. Found out why previous owner was having valve issues and why I found the bent pushrod. When they did the previous rebuild they kept original valve springs and they couldn't handle the lift of the cam (comp cam extreme marine). So heads are getting redone with the right springs. Also going to go with the edelbrock performer intake and carb.

How big of a cam are you running? it would have to be pretty big to bend stock push rods.... i would think the eldelbrock intake and carb, combined with a big marine cam would see a considerabler power increase, depending on the cam specs.

[Moor]

i just looked at that comp cams extreme marine, now i see what happened. The PO upgraded to a comp roller camshaft and cheaped out, he didnt buy the whole kit, just the cam and timing chain. You would definately need to replece the push rods when converting to a roller cam. i would think that should wake your boat right up, especially if you put a performance intake/carb on it. Lemme know how it works out, i might do the same treatment over the winter

[Endo]

I'm going with the comp cam 11-232-3(same cut as last one) It's regular hydraulic flat tappet. The original springs with their isolator/dampners wouldn't compress enough to allow the valve to open up. So went with new springs. When I was painting the block I realized it was a gen vi instead of the v I thought it was. Could have went with a roller set up pretty easily. What I get for making assumptions......

[haugy]

That ought to pep that motor up nicely.

I'm not doing diddle to this engine. If it needs waking up it's getting replaced with an aluminum block that will be built for some serious power. I'm running buggies that use big blocks that use WAY less fuel and deliver twice the power and torque of this giant brick of a 454.

[Moor]

haugy.... lemme know if you have an extra one of those fuel sipping aluminum big blocks lying around, i want to mount it to my unicorn and surf the hell out of it.

[haugy]

haugy.... lemme know if you have an extra one of those fuel sipping aluminum big blocks lying around, i want to mount it to my unicorn and surf the hell out of it.

I'm sensing...............sarcasm. :D Before you bash on me too much, do some research into the 5.3L, 6.0L, 6.2L LS motors. Or the newer fuel injected aluminum blocked 454's, or 427's. I've got experience running 5.3L's and 6.0L's and they are WAY above the standard performance of a 454. If I find one lying around though, I'm not going to be able to toss it to ya.

[Endo]

Well, got the block together this weekend. But since it is late in the season I am going to wait till spring to install. I'll keep things updates on this thread as I start bolting pieces and parts back on. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/16/y6e2a8ud.jpg

[92SupraComp]

LSX is the way to go! So much lighter and many more option for performance and economy! haugy is 100% correct. The new technology is in a classic size (ex: 454) but with all the benefits of todays engines. If you want to re-power, definitely go with an LSX, or maybe 6.0L Gen III

[5akman]

So on my '89 Pirata project I'd be better off with an auto 6.0l? Are marine add on components around such as reasonably priced exhaust available?

[Moor]

Sorry Haugy, sarcasm just flows out of my like pee after a long day on the boat. not planning on repowering yet, but if i blow it up by accident when im hot lapping, i'll definately consider a modern fuel injected power plant. id love to cut my fuel bill by 20-30%. BUT..... if i go through the trouble of repowering, do i really want to put a "stock" engine back in? A cam, intake and software tuning would be in order. There goes my fuel savings lol...

[92SupraComp]

Well, considering a Gen 3 6.0L is about 350 HP and 380 ftlb tq and its lighter than a 351W, and especially a 454, I dont think you would need a lot of extra performance...

Just putting a free flow intake and exhaust lets the LS motor gain some power, so, Marine headers, big air-filter, and a cam, you would be more than set...

[cadunkle]

I think it's funny how some of us with larger boats (Saltare/Pirata) are concerned with how much the engine weighs. How many of us got these 23' behemoths expecting a great slalom wake? If you use it primarily for wake sports lightening up the engine means you'll just need to add more water and these boats don't exactly have a ton of hiding space or room under the floor for bags.

[Moor]

"If you use it primarily for wake sports lightening up the engine means you'll just need to add more water and these boats don't exactly have a ton of hiding space or room under the floor for bags. "

Great point cadunkle, i never would have considered this.... keeping my boat anchor 454 is like having a 250lb bag already filled.

[92SupraComp]

actually probably more than 250 lbs, considering the LS motors weigh less than the 351W as they are Aluminum heads and block with plastic intake. And the 454 is just over 200 lbs more then the 351W, wouldn't be surprised if its a 300 lb+ difference....