Play in rudder, and I think I had the packing nut style? How to service this?

[trayson]

so I have play in all directions when I wiggle my rudder from the outside. I also take on a bit of water and am pretty sure it's from the rudder since I have the play. It looks like mine has the packing nut, but has this wierd locking tabbed washer. So what is necessary to service my setup?? I don't see a grease fitting anywhere. Will simply tightening the packing nut (or replacing the packing rope) eliminate my play??


As far as the packing nut, it looks like I would need to separate the brass arm from the linkage that connects it to the piston. Then remove the cotter pin and take off the arm from the rudder shaft. The bend all the tabs so I can take off the packing nut. does that sound right? I'm not excited about having to fiddle with all those stupid tabs. That's kind of interesting...

Here's the pics and my entry for the dirty bilge contest:

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-T-45Fek9Kk0/UhpFYAHBXiI/AAAAAAAAO0w/pMwosZSa_dU/s800/20130825_104920.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-JD_skWuIjlg/UhpFfkr6w7I/AAAAAAAAO1A/VrJ1pE3AzYI/s800/20130825_104819.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-GJhzVTN5rIg/UhpFjE5zhMI/AAAAAAAAO1I/bZjywtz437w/s800/20130825_104640.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-LANqrNcXMyE/UhpFtC87W0I/AAAAAAAAO1g/qM58LfpNodo/s800/20130825_104650.jpg

[trayson]

Found this thread... Looks like this will help me figure out how to disassemble.

https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?15005-1992-Comp-Rudder-Removal&highlight=rudder+packing

Looks like a winter project. UGH, remove the gas tank? What a pain.

[DAFF]

More than likely the hardest part is to get the arm off the main shaft. It might take a little heat but not too much... Inside try using some degreaser and a rag to clean the area you are working on. I wonder if one of those new style floor steamers would help. Nothing cuts grease better than steam.

[DAFF]

A gear puller would help in the removal of the arm. You might have to fab something up or just cut it off.... I would wait till winter anyhow. Falls coming quicker than usual this season.

[nd4spd]

I tried a gear puller on mine (you can even see the dimple in the top of the rudder post - 2nd last picture in my thread that you re-posted). The tiller arm is such an awkward shape that it was next to impossible to get a grip on it with the gear puller. I wouldn't bother trying that.....if you do, make sure you put a thin piece of steel between the gear puller and the soft brass rudder post. If you feel like tapping the rudder post to push it out the bottom of the boat, use a rubber mallet to prevent mushrooming the the top of the post to the point that it won't fit through the tiller arm.

When you finally get the tiller arm removed, the rudder is going to drop to the ground. It's pretty heavy. Make sure you set up some sort of stop so it doesn't have far to fall.

Have you removed your fuel tank yet? If not, I'd recommend spraying the crap out of the rudder/stud/tiller arm assembly with penetrating oil each night, a few nights before you plan to start the job. Lightly tapping the stud should free up the rudder. You may save yourself all the frustration that I experienced. Removing/installing the tank on your own is a huge pain.

If you do have the tank out, take the opportunity to inspect the blower hose and the port and starboard areas of the bilge. The drain holes which allow the outboard portions of the bilge drain through the stringers to center part of the bilge are small and are easily plugged.

After I packed the rudder, there was still some slop in it. Who knows if I've got the gland nut tight enough or not, though there isn't any water coming through the packing.

All told, it probably took me somewhere between 6-8 hrs total working time over 4 days (including replacing the blower hose and tank removal/install) because I couldn't figure out how the rudder was supposed to be removed.

I also had lots of slop in my steering. I installed some rubber spacers in the clamp which connects the steering cable to the plate which shares mounting hardware with the strut (visible in your top two pictures), and that took care of it. My comp handles great now.

Good luck!
-Adam

[trayson]

Thanks so much for the insight. this will definitely be a winter project for me, but I'll be relying on the tips/tricks in this thread heavily.

[trayson]

After I packed the rudder, there was still some slop in it. Who knows if I've got the gland nut tight enough or not, though there isn't any water coming through the packing.



So, when I grab my rudder from the outside of the boat, I can move it left/right/front/back. Will simply repacking the rope on the rudder and tightening the packing nut fix this? Or is there some kind of seal/bearings/whatever beyond this that I would need to source? Not sure how it's all put together?

[trayson]

Well, I have been working on my rudder removal. I have pulled the gas tank and have been working on getting the tiller arm off the rudder shaft.

It's a BITCH. For the life of me, I can't get the allthread to rotate. I sprayed it with PB blaster and tried double nutting it. (the only nut I had laying around that was the right pitch was a nylock and ultimately that nut got to the point where it was starting to strip out the threads on the allthread. So I soaked it with more PB Blaster and gave up for the night.

I am going to get another nut that's identical to the one that was on the allthread and give it another go. I'm half tempted to try to grab the end of the allthread with some vice grips to see if I can spin it at all... I figure that if I can at least get the tiller arm off, then I can figure out how to grind down the mutilated part of the allthread or replace it with another piece. Honestly, I think that allthread on that piece was a stupid idea and that having a bolt head on there to turn would have made a million times more sense. I would imagine that if I could get the allthread piece off, that I could fab up my own bolt to take it's place and just grind out a groove like the allthread has... But I'd have to get the damn thing apart first.

I haven't used heat yet. Not sure what's the best method for that. I have a little propane torch somewhere. But I was thinking that maybe just using a BBQ lighter might be sufficient? I've never had to do the heat thing yet so I'm not sure what's the best approach.

Anyway, I welcome suggestions on how to proceed...

[CJD]

The "all thread" with the nut looks exactly like the system used on the engine mounts. Have you tried loosening the nut so the end of the bolt and nut align... and then tapping the bolt inward to release the shaft? I can't say, but it looks like the nut pulls the tapered locking bolt against the shaft to hold it, so the secret is to tap the bolt inward to release the tapered lock...??

If I am right about this, the bolt cannot be turned because it is machined on the end you can't see. The machined end is keyed into the steering arm, and it can't be removed until after the rudder shaft is removed. To loosen the bolt, it will take a good rap with a hammer to free it, since it is wedged into the shaft...but not so hard as to deform the nut and/or bolt.

[trayson]

The "all thread" with the nut looks exactly like the system used on the engine mounts. Have you tried loosening the nut so the end of the bolt and nut align... and then tapping the bolt inward to release the shaft? I can't say, but it looks like the nut pulls the tapered locking bolt against the shaft to hold it, so the secret is to tap the bolt inward to release the tapered lock...??

If I am right about this, the bolt cannot be turned because it is machined on the end you can't see. The machined end is keyed into the steering arm, and it can't be removed until after the rudder shaft is removed. To loosen the bolt, it will take a good rap with a hammer to free it, since it is wedged into the shaft...but not so hard as to deform the nut and/or bolt.

That would be a hell of a lot more logical than the idea that I'd have to double nut it and get it to twist... I did beat on it a bit with the deadblow, but I could certainly try some more. Man, if that's the case, I'll be quite happy. I've done the transmission mounts before, so I know exactly what you're saying.

Here are some pics from another thread:


Got the rudder out a couple of days ago.

The trick is A LOT of penetrating oil and even more patience (let it sit for three nights) haha. I attempted the double nut, but was unable to rotate the stud. I tapped the stud a few times with a hammer and the rudder dropped right down.

The first picture is after just a few taps; the rudder had dropped about 3/4". A few more taps and I was able to press the rudder out of the rudder box. In the 2nd picture you can see the cut out in the side of the stud. There was still a bit of crud in the assembly....neglected to clean it prior to taking a picture.

Had it back in the water yesterday. Slowly worked my way up to a few power turns and the rudder didn't snap off! Doesn't get much better than that!

12406

12405

Maybe he's confirming exactly what you're recommending. I guess I wasn't clear when I read it...