Still can't go wireless! 2008 Supra Launch 22SSV w/1100Lbs ballast upgrade

[Copper]

Hello all,

Like the other person that has a 22SSV I am really struggling wake surfing without the rope. Here is my setup:

Fly High Fatsac 1100Lbs ballast upgrade installed this weekend in the left side storage locker to replace the 750lbs (I think?) stock ballast.

Initially had a Ronix Thrasher Marshmellow 5'2" board but just bought a Ronix Koal fish 5' 6" board as the shop said I may just need a stiffer epoxy board.

I first filled just the new 1100lbs ballast full (which scared the crap out of us as the boat lists so badly and is really unstable with any side chop. My wife and kids were not amused.

Anyway - ran at 10MPH, 11 and then to 9.6. I was able to get some slack in the rope and ride but was literally on top of the swim platform. I was able to let go and ride for a few seconds but then lost the wave. I am leaning way forward on the board and putting my weight on the balls of my feet. I am also a snowboarder and surfer (pro surfer as a kid) so it should not be this hard for me.

Next we filled the front ballast (not sure what the stock weight is) almost all the way up and the left side locker full to 1100lbs. My wife is about 95lbs and both my kids are about 100lbs total so not much passenger weight on the boat. I was hoping that would be the ticket as I really don't want to add even more ballast as it makes my wife (the driver when I ride) very very nervous and the boat handles like a pig and is very unstable.

We have the wake plate set all the way up and didn't really mess with it.

Here is a photo. You will note that the rope is slack however it does not stay this way for very long.

http://s205.photobucket.com/user/Copper_SMD/media/P1000386.jpg.html


Any suggestions on the boat setup? Maybe mess with the wakeplate? We tried faster, slower center ballast full, center ballast empty center ballast 1/2 full. No luck. Maybe I need a thicker board with more float? These boards just seem awful thin for such a small wake/wave but I see people on Youtube and on our lake just ripping the wake like it is nothing so I'm baffled. I really don't want to get a new Malibu or similar with the wake gate just to wake surf behind a boat. I know I will really enjoy it as I've been surfing my whole life and I am getting too old to really wakeboard other than just cruising. Flips and tricks like I used to do 10 years ago just don't appeal to me anymore.

Thanks!

[Copper]

Also - just spent about an hour watching wake surf videos on You Tube of Supra 22SSV wakes and it looks like the boat is going a lot faster than we are going (fastest was 11 mph) so wondering if with this specific boat we should be going much faster - 12-13mph? What speed are others going on the 22SSV?

[trayson]

I couldn't get your pic to come up. I even tried to take the .html off the end of it so it ended in .jpg but for some reason the URL isn't right.

Anyway, from what I hear, your setup *should* be able to produce a reasonable wake. I know that in my boat (a direct drive) that I've had to go as fast as 11.7 to 12 depending on how we have it weighted and the passengers. The faster speeds make for a longer, cleaner wave that is not as tall. I had to slow down to 11 after dropping the wake plate about 1/2 inch. But dropping the wake plate seemed to help with how hard the steering was at surf speeds.

Do you ride anywhere with current? If so, we've found that upstream seems to be better than downstream. Also, what is your depth? I know that when we get under 10' of depth, it causes our wave to get washed out and yuck. Lastly, what is your swim platform doing? I know that mine cuts into the wave a bit and robs us of a little push. It got better with the wake plate adjustment though, but eventually we plan to do a custom surf platform that will be SMOOTH on the bottom and we'll be narrowing the sides a little to try to get the platform out of the wake.

I run with 1300 pounds of total ballast in my direct drive, so I would think 1100 on a v-drive + bow weight would be sufficient. If you want to try adding even more bow weight, maybe have the kids go up in the bow and see what happens.

I have 3 boards now. I got a Ronix Caption 4'8 and a hyperlite broadcast 4'9 off CL for cheap, and I bought the Liguid Force Fish 5'6 new as my big cadillac board that is super easy and stable. I can freeride just fine with any of them and it's my first season surfing.

Get that pic to show up, I'm curious now!

[Copper]

Not sure about the pic. I think the moderator has to approve the link before it will show up since I am new to the forum. My other pics (see September Pic thread) showed up after about 24 hours. Anyway the swim platform on the side with the ballast (left side of boat) is almost totally submerged. It is sort of scary looking. I'll try to take a pic next time with our water camera. The swim platform is the stock 2008 model with metal grab rails around the outside. I guess I will go ahead and fill the front ballast all the way then the back left locker with the 1100lbs upgraded ballast all the way and try a faster speed then mess around with the wake plate. I think I might just drive around a bit and play with it instead of just jumping into riding right away and stressing my wife out and boring my kids. Seems like the wake is big enough. There was another boat (newer Malibu) in the same area of the lake this weekend and the wake looked about the same size but much longer and the guy was just ripping. I was tempted to meet up and ask for a ride but kids were getting grumpy so we headed to a cove instead. We are on a freshwater lake. No real current to speak of. Water was smooth as we try to get out early before it is busy and the water is smooth.

Also this is a deep water lake. 40+ feet easily on the part we ride.

[trayson]

Here is how things on my direct drive look from the rider's perspective:
http://contour.com/stories/supra-sunsport-doing-surf-duty

that is the best shot I have to get you an idea of what my platform's doing. You can also see that I've got water running to the rub rail as far up as the rear cleat.

We are 'okay' with the 1300 pounds of ballast, but after the surfer is down, we have to stop, let the rollers pass, then proceed back to the surfer. Trying to turn too quick = taking water into the ski locker in the rear. Also if we are at rest and get a big yaught or another surf boat's rollers, yesterday we were having all the people in the boat jump to the non-surf side because yesterday we had some rollers again put water into our rear trunk locker. :-/

It's a little hard to see, but here is how slammed we run our boat... This is at rest. the water is pretty much to the top of the black at the very back corner. You can see how much of the R and A from "SUPRA" is sticking out of the water and compare that to the decal on my sig pic which is unweighted.
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-z0NufdGQTYE/Uh7RL7aQajI/AAAAAAAAO3g/FRfaZtY_GL8/s800/20130828_190105.jpg

[Copper]

Wow! You are really slammed on that side. I will never go that low just due to the safety factory. I ride just with my wife and kids. I would rather ditch wake surfing and wakeboard and wait until I can get a newer boat with surf gate, etc. than do something like external sacs, etc. What do you think about partial filling the right side ballast (I think 750lbs) to offset the left side 1100Lbs ballast a little bit and filling the front full? Again, I don't have any heavy bodies on board so I have to use the sacs to provide weight. Maybe it is as simple as getting a bigger board though 5' 6" is pretty big as far as wake surfers go I think?

[trayson]

Wow! You are really slammed on that side. I will never go that low just due to the safety factory. I ride just with my wife and kids. I would rather ditch wake surfing and wakeboard and wait until I can get a newer boat with surf gate, etc. than do something like external sacs, etc. What do you think about partial filling the right side ballast (I think 750lbs) to offset the left side 1100Lbs ballast a little bit and filling the front full? Again, I don't have any heavy bodies on board so I have to use the sacs to provide weight. Maybe it is as simple as getting a bigger board though 5' 6" is pretty big as far as wake surfers go I think?

The 5'6 is at the top end of the length spectrum. I've heard 60/40 surfside vs. bow weighting in a v-drive. I'm almost wondering if you need to add some bow weight. I would definitely try dropping the wake plate down some. You'll likely lengthen out your pocket by dropping the bow a little that way. It seems like you should have enough weight, just how to use it in combo with speed and wake plate. I think you just need to dial it in better. Another thought is to talk to the guys at wakemakers.com they are damn good and gave me lots of valuable insight. I can't imagine not being able to freeride behind your boat. It sounds like it has WAY more potential than my Direct drive.

[Smitty75]

Different boat, but in my 21v I need around 950 in the surf side corner and it makes an ok wave at 11 mph and wake plate 1/4 way down. However if I have 2 extra people on the boat and put them on the surf side in addition to the 950 in the back it's a pretty nice wave. I find any weight on the opposite side and the wake starts to wash out, same with any weight in the front.

[KG's Supra24]

I only skimmed the responses so i might be redundant.

I would start at 11mph and work your way up to 12.5, checking the speed with gps.

Is the bow playpen or walk thru? I run with my 1180 bow sac full. I'll often run a few hundred in the non surf side in addition to the 1100 surf side. Different boat but similar hull. The ronix Koal should work well.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[KG's Supra24]

What do you think about partial filling the right side ballast (I think 750lbs) to offset the left side 1100Lbs ballast a little bit and filling the front full?

Yes and yes

You don't want a Malibu.


Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[blackout_58]

What I got to work with my wife and I in our 21V was to swap out the center bag with the rear sac from whatever side we surf on. It's not a world class wave, but I can surf it no problem with our 5'4" Hyperlite Broadcast. I basically have the swapped bag full along with the center bag and there you go, surfable wave.

[Copper]

I have a playpen. Not sure what the factory bag is up front. 750Lbs? I talked my wife into going up with me during the week one day when the kids are in school to play around with the configurations a bit and see if I can get the wake setup better. I am thinking 900ish in the back surf side corner (I have 1100lbs bag) maybe 200 in the back non-surf side and filling the front then mess with the wake plate but who knows? I will call Wakemakers as that is where I bought my 1100lbs upgrade bag. Good to know it is not the board as I really didn't think that was the issue since it is a 5' 6". I'll spend 1/2 day dragging the wake rope around and dialing in the best wake I can before attempting to ride again. Getting frustrated but I think with some time investment I can get it to work and go wireless.

[Copper]

What I got to work with my wife and I in our 21V was to swap out the center bag with the rear sac from whatever side we surf on. It's not a world class wave, but I can surf it no problem with our 5'4" Hyperlite Broadcast. I basically have the swapped bag full along with the center bag and there you go, surfable wave.


OK thanks. I already swapped out the stock rear surf side bag with a 1100lbs Fly High Fat Sac. My guess is that filling it up all the way like I did is causing the wake to deform and wash out. I think filling it up to 900ish and adding 200ish to the no-surf side and filling the front full with some wake plate adjustment and more speed may be the ticket. Maybe I should swap out the prop as well? Any suggestions on which one to get and where to buy one?

[trayson]

OK thanks. I already swapped out the stock rear surf side bag with a 1100lbs Fly High Fat Sac. My guess is that filling it up all the way like I did is causing the wake to deform and wash out. I think filling it up to 900ish and adding 200ish to the no-surf side and filling the front full with some wake plate adjustment and more speed may be the ticket. Maybe I should swap out the prop as well? Any suggestions on which one to get and where to buy one?

I would think the prop would be at the bottom of your list of things to mess with. Sure, they'll help get you to a desired speed better and easier. But I don't think that it's going to be the biggest change for you (other than making your wallet $500 lighter!).

[KG's Supra24]

I agree a prop isn't going to help much in this situation.

If you have the 13x17 then a prop upgrade would yield significant improvement when running heavily weighted. (outside of surf scenario)

[Copper]

OK thanks for the feedback on the prop. We still wakeboard quite a bit as well so don't want to mess around with any changes there is possible. So far this whole wake surf thinkg has been a real PIA LOL!

[trayson]

OK thanks for the feedback on the prop. We still wakeboard quite a bit as well so don't want to mess around with any changes there is possible. So far this whole wake surf thinkg has been a real PIA LOL!

Tell ya what. I've got my surf wave dialed in on my Supra. So I'll trade you my boat for your boat straight across!!!!!!!!!!! I'll throw in all my bags and a full tank of gas!

[Copper]

Haha! Well not THAT much of a PIA!

[Sirgonz]

Have someone that can surf wireless already ride with you once and help you determine if its the boat or the Surfer. just a thought...

[Zim]

Put your toes closer to the edge towards the wave and really put a lot of weight forward. It takes a while to feel it. Supra's like bow weight for a good pocket, so fill up that center sac for sure. Keep working at it. If you have a clean wave that comes up to your knees, you have a plenty good wave. Just comes down to practice and technique at that point.

Sent from my Galaxy S3 using Tapatalk.

[MJHKnox]

Have someone that can surf wireless already ride with you once and help you determine if its the boat or the Surfer. just a thought...

I agree the prop probably will not help.

It took time to learn my boat and how people and weight affect the wake - 2007 SSV 22'.
Mostly, I go with 4 adults - 1 driver, 2 on the surf side back seat, 1 surfing. But when I get more people, I have to adjust. I have 750#s.

Not doubting your ability, but I watched people all summer start to get slack in the rope, drop the rope, ride a little, then fall out of the pocket. The boat would stop, I would get them back up, then the whole thing would happen again.

I try to tell people (before they drop the rope) to learn how to go from the back-pocket of the wake to the swim platform. Keep on doing that (back/forth) until you get the feeling, lean, and edge of the board. There is a skill to learn on how to try to get back into to pocket when you start falling back. A 5'6" board should be fine. I'm over 200# and most of the newer and smaller people fly on that board.

Mark

[KG's Supra24]

Definitely agree with the guys above. There is a technique to learn that wave size isn't going to fix.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

[villain]

Damn! 5'6"?? That's huge!! I ride a Soulcraft 4'10" and I'm 210#

[Copper]

All good suggestions. I guess since I've been surfing/snowboarding/wakeboarding my whole life I thought it would be easy but perhaps not. I will keep working at it and plan on taking the boat up for a 1/2 day of dialing in the wake trying different setups. Most likely filling front center full, filling back left surfside 1100lbs full and about 400ish on the non surfside to balance as it is scary with just the surf side full. Then mess with wake plate and see. I'm also thinking the boat needs to be going faster to clean up the wake. The guys from Ambush - a local board shop have offered to come out with me and check the wake and also ride to show me how they do it. I also have a 5'2' Ronix Thrasher but thought a bigger board would help but it didn't.

[brentrc]

I have a 2012 launch 22ssv. It has an awesome wake that my whole family can surf. The two boards are Ronix 5.0 koal and my son has the phase five scamp (kids board 3.8)
Here is my setup. 1100 lbs in the back port locker. Middle factory bag which is a 650 lb set at about 50%. Wake plate set at 100% for a longer wave and at 0% for a steep wave.
Hope this helps. It is very simple. The bottom line is that a 3800lb boat needs lots of ballast weight if you just have a small family on it.

[Copper]

Cool thanks. Gonna tinker around with the setup this Sunday.

[Bart]

Hi, we have a 22ssv 2007. We fill up left backside with appr. 1100lbs. Have an upgrade centrebag, 1180lbs, but it won't fill completely. Have the ultimate wakesurfbag (1000lbs) over the back and left side seats. Have a Pro X Series V-Drive Wake Surf Sac 400lbs left in the play pen. Run wakeplate appr. 50%. We have 14x14 prop. Run at 14 -15 km/h. Have a CWB Ride wakesurfboard. Everybody can ride without the rope after a few tries. Fiddeling with the wakeplate makes the wake nice and long or short and steep. Weight in front of the boat is very important to get a longer wake which enables you to get away from the platform. Weight of people riding is between 120 and 220 lbs.
We are having some trouble with the Perfect Pass keeping the speed steady though, I'll try changing some settings next year.

[trayson]

Hi, we have a 22ssv 2007. We fill up left backside with appr. 1100lbs. Have an upgrade centrebag, 1180lbs, but it won't fill completely. Have the ultimate wakesurfbag (1000lbs) over the back and left side seats. Have a Pro X Series V-Drive Wake Surf Sac 400lbs left in the play pen. Run wakeplate appr. 50%. We have 14x14 prop. Run at 14 -15 km/h. Have a CWB Ride wakesurfboard. Everybody can ride without the rope after a few tries. Fiddeling with the wakeplate makes the wake nice and long or short and steep. Weight in front of the boat is very important to get a longer wake which enables you to get away from the platform. Weight of people riding is between 120 and 220 lbs.
We are having some trouble with the Perfect Pass keeping the speed steady though, I'll try changing some settings next year.

I ended up changing my PP settings. I updated both the KDW and NN. For surfing it seems like my PP works best if we gently throttle up to around the desired speed (obviously a little higher to it will set). If we throw down too abruptly, it will go a few MPH faster than the desired speed, then drop to a few MPH slower, then finally settle in. If we baby it a little, it shortens the time it takes to get to the sweet spot and also lessens the amount that it overshoots and undershoots the speed setting.

PP has great tech support, and they are quite helpful. Now, this might not be totally applicable to your setup as I'm not sure if you're drive-by-wire (electronic throttle control) whereas I have a physical throttle cable that's controlled my the PP servo motor.

[smgperformance]

I run 13.8 in my boat with around 1300#
its a perfect combo.

[Aaron187]

Have you tried to have the boat turning the same side you are surfing on? I make a very slight continious turn when I am surfing. So if I am surfing on the right side of the boat I make a long very slight turn to the right. It helps with the wave. Very slight turn left if surfing left side.

[jkjasdj]

Any update on this thread? or to continue I have a 06 21v am am upgrading rear lockers to 900lb bags from WakeMakers. Curious if anyone else has had success with surfing on older 21v's with rear locker upgrades?

[spydermonkey]

I have the same boat and get a pretty good wave with 750 in the rear locker 370 under side seat(removed cooler) and 1180 gg bag almost full in the coffin