Broken Dampner plate spring??

[roosm]

Hi,

I have a 2001 Supra Launch SSV (with an engine from a 20002 supra launch 22 ssv, but thats another story, short version the 2001 engine broke and the dealer had a 2002 supra launch ssv).

Last weekend me and a buddy were out wakeboarding. After an hour or so of running, as I was pulling him out of the water the engine suddenly seemed to loose power. Almost as if it were out of gas. And then it died.
I tried to start it again but was met by a horrible clanking noise.

We got a tow in to the dock (the boat is in the water all season).
We tried once more to start it and was once again met by the clanking noise and I let of the key. Though this time it almost started and once the starter disengaged it seemed to run smoothly. If even only for half a second or less before it died.

Yesterday I was at the boat again and removed the starter, expecting to find a broken starter gear, but instead I found 3 pieces of a spring about as thick as my finger lying down where the starter engine sits in the "flywheel cover". Dont know the name of it.

After a quick googleing I found some pictures of dampner plates and I think the spring looks like one of the dampner plate springs. Do you agree?

My question now is. Can I run the boat at idle speed or should I tow it the approx 6 miles to the ramp?
Probably tow it, right?

What then. Lift the engine (I have a lift) or remove propshaft and move the gearbox forward.
How are these operations performed best? =)

Then. Should I change the spring only, all the springs or the entire plate? Given it is a dampner plate spring...

While I am in there is there anything else that should be changed? Flywheel? Re-ring flywheel? Oil seal on engine. Any service that can be done on the transmission? or V-drive except oil change of course.

Thank you,
Mike

[mabbore]

Hi,

I have a 2001 Supra Launch SSV (with an engine from a 20002 supra launch 22 ssv, but thats another story, short version the 2001 engine broke and the dealer had a 2002 supra launch ssv).

Last weekend me and a buddy were out wakeboarding. After an hour or so of running, as I was pulling him out of the water the engine suddenly seemed to loose power. Almost as if it were out of gas. And then it died.
I tried to start it again but was met by a horrible clanking noise.

We got a tow in to the dock (the boat is in the water all season).
We tried once more to start it and was once again met by the clanking noise and I let of the key. Though this time it almost started and once the starter disengaged it seemed to run smoothly. If even only for half a second or less before it died.

Yesterday I was at the boat again and removed the starter, expecting to find a broken starter gear, but instead I found 3 pieces of a spring about as thick as my finger lying down where the starter engine sits in the "flywheel cover". Dont know the name of it.

After a quick googleing I found some pictures of dampner plates and I think the spring looks like one of the dampner plate springs. Do you agree?

My question now is. Can I run the boat at idle speed or should I tow it the approx 6 miles to the ramp?
Probably tow it, right?

What then. Lift the engine (I have a lift) or remove propshaft and move the gearbox forward.
How are these operations performed best? =)

Then. Should I change the spring only, all the springs or the entire plate? Given it is a dampner plate spring...

While I am in there is there anything else that should be changed? Flywheel? Re-ring flywheel? Oil seal on engine. Any service that can be done on the transmission? or V-drive except oil change of course.

Thank you,
Mike

What lake are you located on?

[roosm]

What lake are you located on?

Well. No lake.. Ocean. And I am located in Sweden, Europe.

[Cusefan78]

Thats is a spring off the dampner plate. You don't have to remove the engine for that. Pull the tranny and the bell housing. Remove the dampner plate. I would also change the the rear main seal while you have it apart. Also check your tranny over. This would be a good time for an overhaul considering its out if you suspect any slipping.

[roosm]

Yesterday I removed all the plugs to check for water in cylinders, didn't pour out any fluid. Sprayed the plug holes with some fogging oil. I but a screwdriver in the fly-wheel teeth and managed to turn the engine by hand. Turned it a full revolution, at least, and didn't see any damaged teeth or anything. Replaced the spark-plugs and the starter engine and decided to crank the engine.
It cranked fine. No bad noises, seemed to crank over with "normal" power.
Though, the engine didn't start. I know I have fuel in the tank, but added an extra gallon to be extra sure, the fuel pump is at least buzzing, but no start.

I noticed the tachometer didn't show any sign of life when cranking. I checked all fuses I could possibly find and pulled + re-plugged a few wires that seemed suspect of being involved in the ignition system to maybe free up some corrosion though this seemed far fetched.

I removed a random spark-plug and let a helping hand try to start the engine to check for spark. There was a spark. (I have then later come to realize that I should have checked for intensity of the spark and that I should have grounded the plug to some bare metal to check for sure). The spark was yellow, though I am not sure the spark plug body actually touched any metal. Probably not. There was however no snap sound or white/blue spark. I am by no means an expert at this so maybe I am wrong but should the plug wire have enough power to actually produce a spark if it is held close to some bare metal on the block? Cause it didn't...

I replaced the spark and tested some more. Sometimes the tachometer came to life and displayed at least a few RPM's, but it wasn't consistent.

My new theory is that something is wrong with the ignition. This keeps the engine from starting now. This stopped the engine rather abruptly last Sunday and the sudden stop made the spring dislodge. The clunking noise was at least the pieces of spring caught between starter-engine/flywheel/bell housing.
The sound when the engine died reminded me of the engine running out of fuel, but was quicker. It died almost instantly, but without any mechanical noise. Nothing stopping it physically.

The engine is a 2002 Indmar Marine Assault TBI (Throttle Body Injection). Since I have a hard time attaining spare parts on short notice. (I usually have everything shipped from the US, takes 6-10 days). I would love to know what I can check without getting any new parts. How to troubleshoot this problem. Also since I don't keep the boat at my house I would love to have a few suspect things to look for so I can check several items at the same time.

Greatly appreciate your help!

Mike

[Cusefan78]

If you have spark then your issue is fuel. Make sure fuel is actually pumping. Also check to see if your breakers didn't pop. You should have a few on the dash and a few on the engine.

[biggsie]

Maybe try a quick shot of starting fluid down the intake. If it runs good for a few seconds you have a fuel injection problem.

[roosm]

Well, the spark is weak and the tach isn't registering the spark when I crank the engine. This makes me suspect I have an ignition problem.
I will certainly try pouring a shot glass of gas or spray some starting fluid down the intake.

My troubleshooting procedure is something like this:
1) Disconnect tach and see if it starts = grounded / bad tach.
2) Pour a shotglass of gas down the carb/intake = something wrong with fuel supply.
3) Check for 12v+ at starter engine, ignition coil, at distributor. = Bad connection. I have 3 batteries and 2 of them were recharged 2 weeks ago so I don't think the batteries are the problem. Maybe the connections as I have recently re-done them. Also saltwater will quickly turn good connection into corroded connection.
4) Check for better spark from wire leading to distributor. = Bad distributor if spark is good, bad ignition coil if spark is bad.

Since I have a V-drive is it possible to pull the tranny without pulling the engine? Will it fit going out the other way / forward?
Will I then have to pull my gas-tank?

If I pull my tranny will I have to realign the shaft, is this a difficult task? Any special tools needed?
Will I have to do this even if I pull the engine?
I have an engine lift / hoist.

Thanks,
Mike

[roosm]

Well okay... I poured some gas in the TBI and it fired right up.
The injectors are not spraying any fuel.

I removed the fuel/water-filter and poured the fuel in a container. Nothing but gas, no water.
Replaced the filter and ran the fuel pump. I could hear fuel spraying into the empty filter. 3 turns of the key filled the filter right up again.
This made me concentrate on other things than the boats fuel system and the pump.

I found some guides online of how to test things. Checked and I have 12 V at injector with key in run position.
When I crank the engine this drops to a little over 8 V.

I have 12 V at ignition coil tower with key in run. A litte over 9 V while cranking.

When I put a spark plug directly on the wire from ignition coil and hold it agains a good ground spark still seems weak.

This is beyond me, I don't have a clue as of what can be wrong. Something with the sensors, ECM, or ignition or any other electrical fault.
It all happened so sudden that it does not feel like it could be corrosion.

I have found a main fuse under the dash and 3 small fuses in the engine-compartment. Am I missing a fuse?
Could one of the relays be faulty?

Thanks for any help!
Much appreciated!

[biggsie]

If it ran when you put gas down the TBI than dont worry about spark for now. Focus on the ECM(brain), sensors and the injector. It is possible that there is a cam or crank sensor that was hit by debris from the dampener coming apart. Check for any sensors near the flywheel. Good luck!

[michael hunter]

I'm not that familiar with the PCM TBI but I think its the same as a GM system. Try connecting a test light between the wires at the injector connector. Crank the engine and it should flash showing the injector pulse. If it has spark and no injector pulse its probably the ignition module.

[roosm]

I'm not that familiar with the PCM TBI but I think its the same as a GM system. Try connecting a test light between the wires at the injector connector. Crank the engine and it should flash showing the injector pulse. If it has spark and no injector pulse its probably the ignition module.

Should I connect the test light from one wire to the other or from one wire to ground?

I did try connecting a multimeter between the two wires which did show something although I think it only showed 1 volt. With key in run I think I saw something like 0.2 V and while cranking around 1 V.
Not sure though.

If that is the test I will definitely try that next time I am at the boat.

Thanks!
Mike