Bent Rudder questions on a proposed purchase boat

[haugy]

Guys, some of you know WVfirefighter (think that's right). He's been looking for a Supra Launch type boat all summer. He wants composite, and a newer style boat that is ready to go, turn key. Something that other than polishing, is ready to roll. He's overseas right now serving our country, so he may not be able to chime in. We've been staying in touch via text.

Well I've been checking out some boats down here for him. The first one was a major POS. I mean holy crap bad. This Sunday I went and looked at another. Boat looked okay, severe oxidation, and some serious dock rash beneath the rub rail. Other than the dock marks all cosmetic and can be easily (ha!) polished out.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/IMG_1029_zps479aa057.jpg

But then I checked out the driveline underneath and saw this.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/IMG_1030_zpsfc14572e.jpg

There is gelcoat and fiberglass damage behind the rudder. So then I went and checked the rudder. It would only do 90% of a full turn in each direction. And with my boat I get about a turn and a half in each direction. This one couldn't complete one full turn each way. Just looking at the rudder I knew it wasn't hard over.

So then I looked from the side and saw this:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y164/customcj7/IMG_1052_zps17578413.jpg

It looks like the rudder has been bent to the stern. A solid impact would bend it backwards, and would probably account for the damaged fiberglass and gelcoat. The owner said he hit something this summer and had to have the prop fixed, and the rudder issue started around the same time.

So my question is two-fold:

1) Am I correct in assuming that is bent? But looking how the rudder angle and pivot arm are, and the fact that it's compressed on the backside makes me think it's definitely bent.

2)If WVfirefighter picks up this boat, what is he looking at in terms of cost? I haven't had to buy a new rudder assembly yet. But I would imagine this won't be an easy/cheap fix.
Please weigh in.

I don't want him buying what looks to be an "okay" boat, and then it turn into a nightmare for him.

[wotan2525]

Let's just got with the worst case scenario -- the rudder assembly w/ port and all new hardware is $449. It's not trivial to install it, but it's also not wildly difficult. Very reasonable as a DIY repair.

The gel-coat/fiberglass is going to be trickier. This is a repair that I would leave to a pro although I'm sure there are others on here that would feel comfortable tackling it themselves. The area needs to be ground down and fiberglassed. For simplicity it would then (probably) be painted. It will be good as new at this point.

The good news is this is in an area where cosmetics don't matter a whole lot. If this was fiberglass damage above the waterline it would be a much bigger PITA.

[beat taco]

Call Elbert's for a quote on a replacement as well. 503-864-2448.

Definitely bent, easiest to feel the boat walking while sitting in the back. I assume you didn't water test it yet. I would also check the prop shaft/strut.

That one appears to be able to be straightened. Anyone who repairs props or a machine shop can handle it for around $50.

I straightened mine on my last boat with my high lift jack.

Nothing here that would deter me for the right price.

[haugy]

Well I don't know the numbers they are working out. But yeah, it would have to be the right price. I'm not too sure about using a hi-lift to straighten it back. LOL. I see more damage coming from that.

Couldn't lake test it, dude already had it winterized. It will be lake tested before purchase. I was inspecting these boats for WV to see if they were worth the trip down to TN.

Wotan, have you had to replace the rudder on yours? The problem with this one is the internal ballast sits right above the rudder assembly. You would have to remove the lower rear seat, then the ballast tanks just to get to it.

[Cusefan78]

Changing the rudder doesn't look to be horrible. I was looking at mine when I changed my steering cable. But I would really look at the prop shaft. If it's bent in the least bit you can do damage to the tranny if it's bent and ran for any period of time. I really can't see how the shaft isn't bent if he changed the prop and how the rudder is bent that far back. I would be very careful. You don't want to buy something that has what looks to be a minor problem that could develop into bigger problems.

[crystal waters]

Haugy
here is on for you ----I know---way out in western Canada but it appears primo ! http://classifieds.castanet.net/details/2002_supra_launch_ss/1740986/

PM me you address as I have found an original Saltare brochure in my files--will mail to you as no use to me

[DAFF]

Very EZ fix, but it will scare many away. I would be all over this one if the price is right. IMO it would be worth 5-7k off a pristine condition vessel for this is a high cost repair to out source. $12 500 and pull the trigger.

[CornRickey]

damage to the drive shaft, strut and tranni would be my biggest concern. Anyone with any common sense and the ability to remove a prop should have seen that bent shaft especially when removing it due to a strike

[Cusefan78]

damage to the drive shaft, strut and tranni would be my biggest concern. Anyone with any common sense and the ability to remove a prop should have seen that bent shaft especially when removing it due to a strike

My guess is this guy drove the boat didn't really care for it all that much. I get that from the fact he obviously didn't give the gelcoat any love considering all the fogging. Also anyone with any common sense would know something else is wrong when it's not turning the way it used to. I bet he brought it to shop they told him he really has problems so he's dumping the boat and hoping no one would catch the issues. Unless this guy is giving a deep discount and you are mechanically inclined I would pass. The new owner is going to have hours and hours cleaning the outside. Then going to have a job getting the rudder out and the packing box. While it's all apart I would have take the prop shaft out and make sure it's true. If it's not you can almost guarantee wear on all the bearing in the tranny. My bet is that boat hit a log in the water going at a pretty good speed. I think the number you want is 10k

[haugy]

Haugy
here is on for you ----I know---way out in western Canada but it appears primo ! http://classifieds.castanet.net/details/2002_supra_launch_ss/1740986/
PM me you address as I have found an original Saltare brochure in my files--will mail to you as no use to me

This boat isn't for me. :D Although that is my favorite boat of the newer generation Supra's, and a great color too. I'd definitely rock that boat.
And a PM incoming!!!!! That would be awesome for my collection!!!


My guess is this guy drove the boat didn't really care for it all that much. I get that from the fact he obviously didn't give the gelcoat any love considering all the fogging. Also anyone with any common sense would know something else is wrong when it's not turning the way it used to. I bet he brought it to shop they told him he really has problems so he's dumping the boat and hoping no one would catch the issues. Unless this guy is giving a deep discount and you are mechanically inclined I would pass. The new owner is going to have hours and hours cleaning the outside. Then going to have a job getting the rudder out and the packing box. While it's all apart I would have take the prop shaft out and make sure it's true. If it's not you can almost guarantee wear on all the bearing in the tranny. My bet is that boat hit a log in the water going at a pretty good speed. I think the number you want is 10k

Nail on the head. He showed me a huge sheet of what he called service. We call that a yearly tune up. He paid someone a lot for minor maintenance. This guy doesn't have a clue.

I couldn't check the shaft as we couldn't run it. Without pulling it and spec'ing it out, the only way I know to check for bent shaft is by running it and seeing if there is any vibration. From the naked eye under the boat it looked to be true and straight. WVfirefighter will do an extensive lake test if he gets that far.

I would agree, this boat needs to be well under 14k for me to willingly jump on it. There are badass Saltares and Sunsports for that kind of money.

Thanks for the info guys, hopefully WV can read it overseas. Since it was a newer Launch I wasn't sure if anyone might have some insight into any problems or thoughts around a bent rudder.

[vvfdfirefighter]

Well I've finally read it. Took me a while but it’s done. So the pressing issue right now is price. There are a few nicks and dings on the boat. Sure its 13 years old but I’ve got a 26 yr. old supra that has maybe three spider cracks in it. On one the bow above water line, and two around the exhaust ports on the transom. Guess I'm just more anal about taking care of a boat than some people are. It’s too good of money to throw out there and not take care of something. That's why I cry every winter while my boat sits outside under cover for the snowy winters. Wish I could give her a nice warm home for the winter but the next boat will be inside that’s for sure.

Now, I could be giving the seller more credit than he is earned right now, however from the get go he has been the most honest about problems with this boat than anyone else before him. Sure the "list" of maintenance is just routine oil changes but then again, I’ve never had my boat in the supra shop in the say.....9 years I’ve owned it either. I tend to do all the work myself. Now the rudder is in the machine shop right now getting straightened out. The prop was fixed and the shaft was looked at, said through conversation, by the supra dealer. Supra dealer actually told him what machine shop to take the rudder. It’s not spent its time indoors, definitely an outside boat, but seeing how mine is too I really can't and won't judge someone too harshly on it, long as they did their best to protect the boat as best as they could. Mine will go a couple years between buffing and this one is definitely due for some buffing and a possible wet sanding. This boat is listed for 17,500, however, I have already told him this will not happen and he is open to offers. He is also military himself which has been nice for social purposes. The boat has been water leak tested by the dealer and no water leaks in the hull were found. It does need some work but I think for under 14 it wouldn't be a bad boat....long as the shaft is ok. What do you all think?

I'm also looking at another Launch at the time too. PERSONAL THANK YOU TO HAUGY for his outstanding help in looking at these past two boats for me. I'll try not to send you out to look at any more (ha). I still owe you!

Rob.

[Cusefan78]

If the shaft checks out and it tests okay on the water the 14 isn't a bad price. I would like 13 better because the rudder was clearly hit hard and for that to get hit the skegs and shaft would have gotten hit. You just don't know what happened and how bad it was.

[haugy]

I'm also looking at another Launch at the time too. PERSONAL THANK YOU TO HAUGY for his outstanding help in looking at these past two boats for me. I'll try not to send you out to look at any more (ha). I still owe you!

Rob.

It was my pleasure man. It honestly helped me look back into being a certified Marine Surveyor. Be safe over in the sandbox.


If the shaft checks out and it tests okay on the water the 14 isn't a bad price. I would like 13 better because the rudder was clearly hit hard and for that to get hit the skegs and shaft would have gotten hit. You just don't know what happened and how bad it was.

As I've seen the boat, there are some cosmetics that just can't be fixed, and it was full of water when I got there from sitting out. I think $13K if a VERY FAIR price for this boat. In my opinion, I'd be very hard pressed to even get to that number. I've seen 92 Sunsports and Saltares go for less and look 100 times better. And other than some minor hull changes and 1 on-board ballast tank, they are the same.

[rideevol]

13537 My bent rudder and hull damage cost around $5 K. Better then new structurally and new gelcoat by pro. in my case, I had a break through and leak.

[vvfdfirefighter]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/19/ahy9a9et.jpghttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/19/butujary.jpgWell I bought the boat yesterday. Took 7 months to finally get down and look at it between deployments and getting married. Has a new rudder and prop But the prop shaft has been tweaked a bit. Luckily the shaft strut is still correct just bent the shaft where the prop goes on. Anyone know what part number I need for a shaft? 2000 launch DD with the Indimar assault 350?

Big shout out to Haugy for looking this boat over 6 months ago for me while I was deployed. I really appreciate your insight that made this purchase a reality!

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II through Tapatalk

[bens250ex]

hopefully you got a good deal, I had to fix my rudder mount area due to previous owner hitting something. Good news is it can easily be fixed by someone who knows how to do fiberglass. The gel coat is the pain to me, I still haven't gel coated mine I just ground out all the bad glass and built it all back up and sanded it flat.

[vvfdfirefighter]

I'd say I got a good deal on her. Paid a little over 13,000 for it.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy Note II through Tapatalk

[haugy]

Congrats on the boat man. Took ya some time, but I'm glad you got one you're happy with. Can't wait to see the pics as you clean her up and get her back into shape.

Congrats on the marriage too!