How many batteries do you run?

[Torque]

Hi all,

I started redoing my interior in my 88 comp. all new seats, stereo etc. my question to you all is; do I need a second battery if I am using an amp or two on the stereo and sub?

What did you do to accommodate the amps, led lighting etc? Maybe a larger alternator?

I figure while I have it torn apart, I can package the second battery if needed easily.

Thanks!!

[haugy]

2 batteries, always 2. Once you see the benefit you'll never go back to one. You can run your stereo and have a good time, and always have the other one to get home.

On a boat, a word most boaters learn is "redundancy". Always have a backup if feasible. If you plan on running a bigger than stock stereo, you must get another battery. Put it on a perko switch so you can switch from one to the other.

First thing I do on any boat is get new batteries, and if has one it's immediately converted to two.

[comp92]

i would be intersted to see a write up with pics on this!
hint hint ;)

this has been on my To-Do list for wayyy too long!

[trayson]

What Haugy said.

I have two and a perko switch. I rarely need the 2nd one, but when you need it, you need it.

[Torque]

Ok. now for the questions;

• How dose this switch work?

•How do you wire the second battery in?

•Is it in series with the primary?

[haugy]

Ok. now for the questions;

• How dose this switch work?

•How do you wire the second battery in?

•Is it in series with the primary?

The switch is a large control knob. It allows you to control what battery is operating. It has an "Off" setting which kills ALL power to the boat. Very nice for storing the boat when done. And it has a "1" and a "2" setting. Allowing you to choose which battery you want to run off of.

To wire them up, you simply run your Positive line into the perko from each battery. Then one more positive line goes out to the boat. Essentially there will be three wires going into the Perko. 2 inbound, one outbound. Then you can ground the batteries together and then to the boat. I run a distribution block for my grounds so that I can wire my audio straight to that and get a good ground. Both batteries wire into this. And then out to the boat's ground. They are always grounded. And since they share a universal grounding point, it doesn't matter which battery you are on.

It's really easy. Just get two batteries, and a perko switch. Find where you want to mount them first, then go get GOOD cable and hook it up.

The batteries aren't in series. You can put them in parallel with another setting on the perko switch. It will say "Both" or "All". That allows two things. You can start the boat with the batteries in parallel which is only needed if both batteries are really low. But it will also charge both banks of batteries when underway.

*CAUTION* Using the "Both" or "All" setting does require some more prep work. It is recommended that if you ever really want to do this, both batteries need to be of the same size and power capacity, twins essentially. In power (correct me if I'm wrong someone), but it will typically charge the weaker battery first. This will cause in imbalance in the load and can damage the weaker one, and weaken the good one.

Because I have a medium duty battery for my daily activities, and a big heavy duty for my back up, I never run the switch on the "both" setting. I can start it on the heavy duty, and then switch back to the medium duty if I've run it down. It will charge on the ride home.

Does that make sense?

http://assets.academy.com/mgen/06/10183206.jpg?is=500,500
http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/dual_battery/Dualbattery2.jpg

[Torque]

13456

So is this correct?

[Torque]

You were writing while I was writing. Lol.

Yes that makes sense. Is the ground busbar called an Earth Ground?

[trayson]

Haugy is dead on balls. Exactly what I have done. I went the extra step to have custom zero gauge welding cable with new ends made up as battery cables. The OEM cables can get tired and additional resistance over time. Plus, I like overkill. I was able to replace my ground to the block, the cables to the perko switch, the ground connecting the two batteries, and the cable from the starter relay to the alternator all for under $100. I didn't replace the power cable that goes from the perko switch back to the starter relay at the back of my block though. It seemed to be in okay shape and would have added a lot of cost.

[trayson]

Also, if you have accessories that are wired directly to your battery now, you need to hook them to the "output" terminal of the perko switch. My previous owner had a ballast pump wired to the battery, and I got lazy and wired some stereo stuff to the battery. That's all fixed now.

I also ran some additional 8 gauge from the perko switch to the fuse distribution block and a run of 8 gauge from the battery to a bus bar (ground distribtion block) so that I can power and ground the items under the dash better. The grounds under the dash really suck. My perfect pass was having 1 or 2 volts of drop and that's cured now.

[wotan2525]

I run 3 batteries. I've got 1 starting battery that is only responsible for starting and running the stuff wired through the dashboard. The other 2 are large, deep-cycle batteries that run everything else (stereo, pumps, etc.)

I recommend the blue-sea add a battery system (http://www.bluesea.com/products/7650) because it keeps it WAY simpler as far as automating your battery switching. When the boat is running, it combines the battery banks so that both of them charge. Without this, you have to manually switch from 1 to 2 to make sure your batteries stay charged. It's a PITA. It also comes with a nice PERKO style switch (although I think it's nicer) that allows you to turn both banks completely off, or combine them (when your starting battery goes dead, you want to combine both banks to start the boat.)

I fiddled around with all kinds of electrical problems before I sort of started over and spent the money to do it right. My batteries are probably overkill for most systems but I am running a lot of power. All of my wiring is 0 or 00 gauge. I also installed this on-board charger (http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GEN2-On-Board-Waterproof-Battery/dp/B003JSJS5I) and it makes sure all of my batteries are always charged/maintained properly. I just leave it plugged in whenever I'm not on the water. I had the ProSport version of that before and it burned up -- I've been pretty happy with this NOCO model.

I also installed a 160 amp alternator to make sure I was charging batteries as much as possible while running.

I haven't been stranded with a dead/dying battery since upgrading all of this. I use cheap Wal-Mart batteries and they have all lasted me 3-4 years on average.

[trayson]

Here's my cheap ass solution for keeping my batteries charged:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20349.jpg

Harbor Freight, typically on sale for under $10 each. I bought two. works for me.

[Torque]

I run 3 batteries. I've got 1 starting battery that is only responsible for starting and running the stuff wired through the dashboard. The other 2 are large, deep-cycle batteries that run everything else (stereo, pumps, etc.)

I recommend the blue-sea add a battery system (http://www.bluesea.com/products/7650) because it keeps it WAY simpler as far as automating your battery switching. When the boat is running, it combines the battery banks so that both of them charge. Without this, you have to manually switch from 1 to 2 to make sure your batteries stay charged. It's a PITA. It also comes with a nice PERKO style switch (although I think it's nicer) that allows you to turn both banks completely off, or combine them (when your starting battery goes dead, you want to combine both banks to start the boat.)

I fiddled around with all kinds of electrical problems before I sort of started over and spent the money to do it right. My batteries are probably overkill for most systems but I am running a lot of power. All of my wiring is 0 or 00 gauge. I also installed this on-board charger (http://www.amazon.com/NOCO-GEN2-On-Board-Waterproof-Battery/dp/B003JSJS5I) and it makes sure all of my batteries are always charged/maintained properly. I just leave it plugged in whenever I'm not on the water. I had the ProSport version of that before and it burned up -- I've been pretty happy with this NOCO model.

I also installed a 160 amp alternator to make sure I was charging batteries as much as possible while running.

I haven't been stranded with a dead/dying battery since upgrading all of this. I use cheap Wal-Mart batteries and they have all lasted me 3-4 years on average.

I'm going to follow your lead. I saw that system while I was looking things up. Do you have any pictures of your layout?

[haugy]

I'm going to follow your lead. I saw that system while I was looking things up. Do you have any pictures of your layout?

Hater. :D :D The standard perko does the same thing except the auto charging. Which again, you still might want to read up on charging batteries of different sizes. I'm not sure if the Deep-sea accounts for that.

Wotan, the Blue-sea said it was rated for up to 120 amp systems. Any issues with the 160amp alternator? I'm putting 160amp alternators on my rig and my boat next year. Looking forward to that.

[Wylietunes]

Hi all,

I started redoing my interior in my 88 comp. all new seats, stereo etc. my question to you all is; do I need a second battery if I am using an amp or two on the stereo and sub?

What did you do to accommodate the amps, led lighting etc? Maybe a larger alternator?

I figure while I have it torn apart, I can package the second battery if needed easily.

Thanks!!

Although I am a huge fan of having dual batteries in a boat, its really based on use. A single battery and properly functioning alternator can and will keep pace with most typical boat loads, which includes a moderate audio system.

The true "need" for a 2nd battery really comes into play when the system will be used at rest. How long the system will be played, and its estimated current draw, will determine how many battery amp hours are needed. There are a number of different dual-battery setups.

[Wylietunes]

13456

So is this correct?

With whats drawn on that piece of paper, its correct, but there is a lot more thats not represented, and the devil is in the detail.

"Perko" is a manufacturer of marine equipment, and they happen to make a couple different types of battery switches to. Guest and Blue Sea also make a couple different types of battery switches. I would not get hung on a brand of switch, but rather the appropriate type of switch that is right for your application. People tend to toss "perko" around like Kleenex for facial tissue. The type of switch will determine how its wired an used, not the brand.

The total scope of your stereo system, how many battery amp hours you need and how you want to use it will drive the best battery setup for you. This will dictate the best switch, or even if one is needed.

In terms of quality, the perko is at the bottom of my list. The plastic is brittle, they have short studs, which limits the number of cables you can attach. The studs are smaller then the other switch studs. The space on the business side of the switch is shallow, so again, this makes it hard to mount multiple cables. there is only one entry/exit point for ALL cables, so again, multiple cables gets cramped. Ive seen a number of them fail internally.

Blue Sea is my preferred switch. Large lugs, you can enter or exit the switch from any of the 4 sides. longer studs. Deep walls and can also be flush mounted. body is more flexible.

[Wylietunes]

Hater. :D :D The standard perko does the same thing except the auto charging. Which again, you still might want to read up on charging batteries of different sizes. I'm not sure if the Deep-sea accounts for that.

Wotan, the Blue-sea said it was rated for up to 120 amp systems. Any issues with the 160amp alternator? I'm putting 160amp alternators on my rig and my boat next year. Looking forward to that.
A standard 1/2/BOTH/OFF dual battery switch, such as the most common "Perko" brand switch, has very little in common with the Blue Sea Dual Circuit Plus switch that come in the "Add-a-battery" kit.

[CornRickey]

I run three with a two battery perko switch. I run two on together for the stereo and the single for the starter. when I'm moored up I switch to the two and save the single for starting.

[haugy]

A standard 1/2/BOTH/OFF dual battery switch, such as the most common "Perko" brand switch, has very little in common with the Blue Sea Dual Circuit Plus switch that come in the "Add-a-battery" kit.

The only difference is the automatic relay that switches batteries for you. Which in my opinion is actually a weakness, not a benefit. (sorry wotan). I've had battery banks and battery switching systems fail before. The ones that had electronic by-passes and relays were always the biggest headache to deal with.

One is straight manual with no digital overrides, the other is designed to take the guess work out of it all. But they are still the same when you step back and look at them.

[kelvinb]

Here's my cheap ass solution for keeping my batteries charged:

http://www.harborfreight.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/i/m/image_20349.jpg

Harbor Freight, typically on sale for under $10 each. I bought two. works for me.

Sounds like money saving idea;)

[Torque]

Ok. Starting to get confused now. I just need it to work.

[Wylietunes]

The only difference is the automatic relay that switches batteries for you. Which in my opinion is actually a weakness, not a benefit. (sorry wotan). I've had battery banks and battery switching systems fail before. The ones that had electronic by-passes and relays were always the biggest headache to deal with.

One is straight manual with no digital overrides, the other is designed to take the guess work out of it all. But they are still the same when you step back and look at them.

Those 2 switches are a night an day different from each other in both wiring configuration and use. The existence of the ACR/VSR is only a small part of how the 2 systems very.
A standard 1/2/BOTH/OFF switch has 3 cable studs: BATT-1, BATT-2 and COMMON. in a typical configuration, ALL boat and house loads, with the exception of the auto bilge wire, terminate to the "C" post of the switch. Its a totally manual system with the loads drawing from which ever battery bank the switch is turned to and in turn, the alternator will feed which ever bank the switch is turn to, when the engine is running. It will allow for the user to select which battery to start the engine with and which battery to allow the house loads to draw form when the boat is anchored. And as long as the switch is NOT in the "BOTH" position, you will always have one battery held in reserve for a restart after anchoring.

The Dual-Circuit Plus switch has 4 cable posts: 1A for boat loads, 1B to main battery, 2A for house loads such as stereo, and 2B for the dedicated house battery. It has 2 switch positions as opposed to the 4 that a traditional switch has; OFF, ON and COMBINE. OFF disconnects ALL loads, whether its a house or boat load, from their perspective battery. When in the ON position, 2 contacts close, connecting 1A to 1B and 2A to 2B. So now all loads are connected to their dedicated battery, but the 2 banks are completely isolated from each other. Boat loads will not draw form the house battery and stereo loads will not draw from the main cranking battery, even with the engine off. Only when in COMBINE, are the 2 banks connected. This would be for an emergency start or if the house bank has been drawn down very deep, and the ACR/VSR bouncing closed/opened due to the excessive load of the depleted house bank. The semi-manual Dual-circuit pluss ACR/VSR system is a great setup, buts its not right for every boat system. A large house bank and heavy draw stereo can easily exceed the design capabilities of the ACR/VSR. In that case, a standard manual switch or complete stand-alone house bank would be better.

Although a little unconventional, you could use an ACR/VSR or even a diode type Iso with a traditional 1/2/BOTH switch, but you would not want to use the Dual-Circuit Plus switch without the ACR/VSR as part of the system.

Haugy, of the ACR/VSR was a weakness for you, then your system is one of those that sounds like the ACR/VSR is not the right solution. its not that the ACR/VSR is faulty, just wrong application for a good system. It would be a setup to fail situation. I hope this sheds some light on to these 2 systems.

[Wylietunes]

Ok. Starting to get confused now. I just need it to work.

You need to plan and design the entire house system, including the size of the house battery bank thats needed to meet your needs. At that point, the switch systems will present themselves. Heck, you may not even be a good candidate for an ACR/VSR type system. A traditional switch system will work just fine for 99% of boaters, but its completely manual. An ACR/VSR will work just fine for about half the systems out there and is more automatic. After that, you have 1%'ers pushing 10k watts rms, spend 12 hours a day at the sand bar and have 12 golf cart batteries.

[haugy]

Ok. Starting to get confused now. I just need it to work.

Sounds like you are running an average stereo system. And with your engine size, I'd just get a simple perko. Even with multiple amps, and a WS XXX v2 sub I don't have any problems. I just have to lift a seat, and turn a knob.

As Wylie stated, the BlueSea keeps the boat batteries and the auxiliary battery separate. Which is what a perko will do, just you have to do it manually. And for the price difference, you can almost buy a good battery and a perko before you buy a BlueSea switch. You just need to keep your perko switch mounting location in mind. You want it easy to access, and the closer to the batteries (shorter cable) the better. For power and costs.

The real thing you want to focus on here, isn't so much the switch, it's the batteries. It doesn't matter what switch you have if you don't have good batteries. And I'm not talking Optima Red tops, just good batteries with a solid CCA rating and run time. Personally I just have some simple Wal-mart grade heavy crank batteries in my boat. They have a warranty, are cheap, and easily replaceable.

[michael hunter]

I run a simple 3 wire 95amp isolator on a 2 battery system. Its totally automatic no switches no large cables. It connects the battery's to the alternator when its charging and separates them when its not. I paid under 50 dollars in 2008 and have never had a problem.

[Torque]

I run a simple 3 wire 95amp isolator on a 2 battery system. Its totally automatic no switches no large cables. It connects the battery's to the alternator when its charging and separates them when its not. I paid under 50 dollars in 2008 and have never had a problem.


Can you take a picture of what you have?

[biggsie]

Sure Power 9523AD 95 Amp Battery Isolator
http://amzn.com/B0042QS4G0

Like this?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[biggsie]

This one is a little cheaper. It seems like this would beat having to remember switching (1/2/both/off) all the time.
NOCO IGD140HP Grey 140 Amp High-Performance Battery Isolator
http://amzn.com/B001DKRF2M


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)

[michael hunter]

I used a Don Rowe Isolator I don't think they make them anymore but it is similar to this one.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/12-48090_zpsaed6f56e.jpg (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/suprahunter/media/12-48090_zpsaed6f56e.jpg.html)

Its wired like this except I don't have multiple acc battery's. My set up is the starting battery runs the original electric system just like it was from the factory. The stereo system is totally separate and runs on its own deep cycle battery. They are connected to the alternator through the isolator.

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/1094a_zps1eb32532.jpg (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/suprahunter/media/1094a_zps1eb32532.jpg.html)

[Wylietunes]

Can you take a picture of what you have?

A diode type isolator is a whole 'nother animal in the dual-battery arena, with its own pros and cons. The biggest con of a diode Iso is the .7V drop across the diode. For a 2 battery setup with a mild 2-3 amp system, this is typically not an issue. This with large house banks, AGM batteries or high current draw systems, the diode Iso can leave the battery(s) undercharged. A diode Iso can be used without a switch, but you loose the ability to have the house bank as an emergency backup.

Pro: fully passive/automatic. Can be coupled with a switch with similar benefits as an ACR/VSR, but keep the voltage drop in mind.