1986 Supra Beast Project 460 Ford Motor

[Awill10291]

Continued from my previous post on the repair forum. After doing some more homework I did the exact what users told me not to do, and I bought the 1986 jerry rigged Supra Beast. I ended up picking the boat up for just $1500, after pointing out the rotten stringers and multiple other issues. I have a budget of around $9,000 to invest in this restoration project. My uncle is owns a wood working company, and has all the tools and equipment necessary to do just about anything. He also is very familiar with boats and his good friend owns a marine shop in NE. This boat has a strong running 460 ford big block engine, that has been properly marinized according to my mechanic. What I would like to know is what else should be done for this boat restoration besides the stringers? The floor has no soft spots and appears to be in good shape.

Do you have to take the boats cap off to do the stringers? (from what I've learned the boat cap is the top of the boat?)
Do you have to take the bottom of the boat off as I've seen from pictures and videos?
My uncle has a 92 mastercraft, which he says has aluminum stringers. He said he was thinking maybe we could put aluminum stringers in instead of wood? Is that possible?
What is the transom? Does the transom need to be replaced? What other specific parts may need to be replaced to restore this boat?
The home made tower is actually more sturdy than my dad's 2003 sea ray 220's, and the weld job is solid.
In my previous post some users said to run away from this boat, because it has custom jerry rigged aluminum ballast tanks, both in the front and the back of the boat. I plan on redoing the ballast system and using sacks if the aluminum ballast tanks are not recommended, although I never got an explanation why.

Any and all information is greatly appreciated, and thanks again to those that have replied in the past! I look fwd to this project and will post photos throughout the process. (This is a 5-7 month project) I am fully confident that my uncle can do a great job on this boat, and anything I can't find on here he will be able to find out through the local marina, but I would love to have some knowledge going into this from here. Thanks guys!

http://s22.postimg.org/4nepgz1r5/image.jpg

[haugy]

460 motor in a beast? That will be the first one I've heard with that motor in it. I thought they only came with 454's as the big block. Pics of the engine?

To answer your questions:

1) Yes you have to take the cap off to do stringers. It's not difficult to get off, in fact that's the easy part.
2)Take the bottom of the boat off? Once you pull the top cap, all that is left is the lower hull, and the floor and stringers. The lower hull can sit on a trailer the whole time you pull the floor and old stringers out.
3)Transom will be fiberglass just like the rest of the boat. As long as there are no stress cracks near the exhaust outlets you should be good to go. If there are, just a simple patch job.


Looks to be a nice hull. With some work she could be a great boat.

[michael hunter]

There are many threads on stringers use the search box in the upper right corner. If you are going to do a complete stringer restoration you will need to remove the cap. I don't know what you mean by bottom of the boat? There are many ways to do the stringers I have never seen aluminum used are you sure he is not talking about a aluminum cage to support the engine? After you see how the factory did it and it still lasted 20 plus years Im sure anything you do will be better.

[Awill10291]

1. What i meant by removing the bottom of the boat; Some pictures on this forum when people are redoing their stringers, the hull of the boat is actually off too as well as the cap. Maybe they were just fixing the hull as well? Not sure.
2. I'm not sure if he meant an aluminum cage, he just said he thought his mastercraft stringers were aluminum and said maybe we could do aluminum stringers on the restore???(since he owns a wood working company I assume he will end up just doing it like it was originally)
3. It is not the stock engine. Here is a picture of the engine. As i said before this engine runs great and starts right up. I'm guessing this engine is worth a quarter of what I even paid for this boat? This engine is FREAKING HUGE! http://s4.postimg.org/hefxg2n3h/image.jpg
4. So besides the stringers, floor boards, and checking the transom is anything else ever rotten of in need of restoration?? You are sure right about the hull, it is in excellent shape especially for the age of the boat.
5. How about when redoing the ballast system? Why are aluminum tanks so unfavorable? The guy always put anti freeze in the tanks in the winter just in case any water was left in there. Should i switch to sacks? I can't wait to see how these tanks are even jerry rigged in there, as they are under the floor in the back of the boat, and under the front of the closed bow. (Impressively the pump system works well for them, and they can be controlled by custom switches on the dash like a newer supra or malibu, the drains are in the rear of the boat and they drain just like your bildge pump would do)

Thanks for all the responses!

[Cusefan78]

I'm pretty sure mastercraft just uses glass stringers just like 92 and above supras. They have been using a metal frame to hold the engine in place. Make the stringers out of wood and glass them in. You'll never have a problem again. The transom is the back of the boat. The problem with metal ballast tanks is they leak. Get sacks and be done with it

[Awill10291]

So now I'm in a huge debacle with my buddy on whether or not this boat needs stringers. Only ONE of the motor mount screws is stripped. The rest tightened up just fine. He also used a moisture meter, and claims that the wood was not moist, and that it looks as if the stringers were done within the last few years because the floor boards are also in good shape and seem to have no rot or damage. I don't think anyone put any resin down on the new floor boards though.

1.What kind of resin or stain should we use to create the fiberglass look/protection over the wood floors? I've seen videos of people using like resin or something that they use a roller on over the boards. Any ideas or is this even necessary? As far as the aluminum tanks go, if we test them and there are no leaks at all whats the problem with using them?

2. How do you fix a fiberglass hole in the boat? We accidentally backed the boat into something some patio furniture.:rolleyes: The hole is the size of a quarter on the back of the boat. I wanna patch it the correct way. Please include where and what to buy.

http://s18.postimg.org/yeiz3up5l/IMG_5553.jpg (http://postimage.org/)
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[Moor]

I thought Mastercraft used composit stringers with an aluminum engine cradle lag bolted into the stringers?

[Awill10291]

Update! Turns out the stringers have been replaced. Replaced the bolts on the motor mounts and they tighten right down. The motor is solid and is not going anywhere. The floor seems has been coated and is also new with no moisture or soft spots. The stringers seem to be solid as well and the rotten wood I thought I was pulling out was foam according to two neighbors! Had the boat out last night and it ran GREAT with the 460. I can't believe it. I now have all the money to reupholster the entire boat as well as a great sound system. Another note. ALL the custom alluminum ballast tanks fill and drain and it seems to be a professional with no leaks and custom ports on the front of the boat to drain.

[Awill10291]

So we started ripping the carpet out and wanted to check how the aluminum ballast tanks. I can't decide if this is ghetto or actually well done. Let me tell you that there are ZERO leaks, all pumps drain and fill, and it looks as if someone spent some time on this, BUT the ballast are actually the wood cubbys! Someone used epoxy and fiberglass it looks like to fill and seal the wood. No wood is rotten and it seems to actually be okay. My question is what is the downfall of this? It's honestly completely sealed and holds water without a single leak. Check it out.

[cadunkle]

You sir, have an awesome boat! I'm a Ford guy so it pains me that my Saltare has a 454. If it ever dies (it'll be a while, was rebuilt not long before I got it) I plan to do a 460, as the 385 series is capable of ridiculous power quite cheaply. Interestingly the owners manuals mention 460 engines, but I've never heard of a Supra (or any inboard ski boat) with one so I'm guessing someone swapped it in.

[Awill10291]

http://s27.postimg.org/z9px0manj/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/z9px0manj/)

http://s7.postimg.org/o7lravy2f/image_1.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/o7lravy2f/)

http://s27.postimg.org/i9bm5omzz/image_3.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/i9bm5omzz/)

1. The custom ballast tanks are just the wood. Is this even safe or acceptable? As I said before, all pumps work and the wooden ballasts are completely sealed with what seems to be like a fiberglass epoxy. There are no leaks, but how shanty is this? If there are no leaks does it even seem sufficient?
2. Once the wood top is sealed back down my question is how do you know the wooden ballasts are full? Does the pumps stop after they are full or do i just need to know from experience. The top of the wood ballasts is screwed in with sealant.
3. We are gonna put new carpet in the boat. What kind of glue do you use?

Thanks guys.

[Moor]

Thats a nasty looking fiberglass crack in the first pic where the starboard meets the transom....

[Awill10291]

What's the best way to go about fixing that? It has been that way since I nearly purchased this boat in 2011 in IA and has not gotten any worse. Is that a bad spot for a crack? It's only cracked on the inside.

[Awill10291]

http://s27.postimg.org/hs9v67h0v/image.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/hs9v67h0v/)

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1. Been researching some past forums. Should I pull the floor and check the foam? These floors are solid. There is no soft spots what so ever. The floor has a resin on it and is very solid.

2. We are putting in new carpet. What kind of carpet should we put in? Is there special boat carpet? I see some online but wanna make sure we do this right.

3. As you see the ballast tanks from my previous post, there is actually fiberglass that was put down in the tanks before the resin was put down and sealed so it looks very professional, although creative and sketchy. ha. any comments on those tanks and system. AGAIN NO LEAKS WHAT SO EVER, AND ALL PUMPS WORK DRAIN AND FILL. Kind of impressive how someone put all this together in my opinion. any opinion helps but be nice please haha : )

[Moor]

Not sure abou the best repair for the crack, but im sure others here will know what to do with it. Is the crack just on the gel coat? it almost looks like the fiberglass is cracking by the size if the crack. imho, you already have the carpet up, check the foam, its not much more work from here. From what i have read, almost ALL older boats have soggy foam, rotting away the floors and stringers. If you do end up using those home made ballast tanks, id put another coat of reisen on them inside and out to make sure they dont leak in the future.

[mlaosa]

Nice beast! I'm kinda blown away that it has a 460! It's cool. I've only seen the beasts with a 454. I'm a ford guy too and would love to have a 460 in my conbrio!

[Awill10291]

The beaSt is getting there. New carpet is it. Re sealed all wooden ballast tanks. Took tower off and am working away at chiseling away at the rhino liner that the previous owner sprayed on. I am going to get my tower powder coated white. All white everything! Had 800 of engine work done. Needed new distributor cap and carb Kit. My boat mechanic came to find that the boat has an automotive starter and fuel pump and after reading I had better change those ASAP. I plan on fixing the crack in the back by spraying foam to sturdy up behind the fiberglass, and then doing the fiberglass repair. Putting $1500 stereo in the beaSt here soon. Just praying she will run most the summer. Motor starts and runs strong now, and boat marina said stringers are in decent shake. Here is a pic.


https://imageshack.com/i/ipDq0Kzzj

[Awill10291]

Help! Where can I fin aND purchase the inserted caps for my 1986 supra beast that go where my blower and Ballast tanks drain? ?the caps on the rear end of the boat! I can't find any online. What are they even called to search for them? Please let me know. Thanks guys.

[Awill10291]

Vents? ? Assuming they are called vents. ..

[jasun]

http://www.defender.com/product3.jsp?path=-1%7C6880%7C2290139%7C2290142&id=118486


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[jasun]

Try Seadog 4" flush vent


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[Awill10291]

I think they are 3 inch. I found some. Thanks!

[ckracing]

Do you have any more photos of how the back seat is laid out? I'm liking it and am curious what it looks like from additional angles.
Thanks -
Chris

[Awill10291]

1. CK racing. I will post some pictures soon. So I have dumped all kinds of money into getting this thing to get it running right. The engine runs GREAT and this baby puts out a huge wake with the custom ballast tanks, BUT i noticed my drive shaft is spitting a decent amount of water into the boat. I read it's normal to do a few drips per minute. Mine is quite a bit more than that. I would have to run my bilge pump about every 20 minutes if i don't fix it. My boat guy quoted $500 minimum to repack and seal the shaft? Is this necessary? Can I just tighten the bolts? I tried but i don't even have a wrench that big at the moment. How hard of a fix would it be if i tried it on my own? I have searched the forums quite a bit and will continue to do so.

2. How much am I looking at to get a cover made with buttons? It already has buttons around the boat, but I was never given the actual cover. I am guessing it would be $500 plus.... Not in my budget at the moment but was curious as I may be able to keep my boat on the water.

3. I've spent probably 10-12 hours peeling the crappy rhino liner that someone sprayed on the tower than I got with my boat off. I used chisels and knives and I am almost done. I plan on powder coating my tower white. Do people do that? Will it look nice and will it last?

Thanks Guys.

[Awill10291]

http://s10.postimg.org/fxhy84uqt/20150316_202543.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/fxhy84uqt/)

[cadunkle]

1. CK racing. I will post some pictures soon. So I have dumped all kinds of money into getting this thing to get it running right. The engine runs GREAT and this baby puts out a huge wake with the custom ballast tanks, BUT i noticed my drive shaft is spitting a decent amount of water into the boat. I read it's normal to do a few drips per minute. Mine is quite a bit more than that. I would have to run my bilge pump about every 20 minutes if i don't fix it. My boat guy quoted $500 minimum to repack and seal the shaft? Is this necessary? Can I just tighten the bolts? I tried but i don't even have a wrench that big at the moment. How hard of a fix would it be if i tried it on my own? I have searched the forums quite a bit and will continue to do so.

I wouldn't pay $500 to repack a shaft gland. You're talking like $5 or less of flax rope. I use the gore-tex virtually dripless stuff. Hardly drips at all when adjusted to not run real hot. Depending on how much of a pain your coupler is to get apart and how far out of adjustment your engine alignment is it could be a full day job, or could just be a few hours. You'll need a 2/3 jaw puller or prop puller for the prop. May as well do cutlass bearings while the shaft is out. Use a sawzall or hack saw to slice them if they fight you. Coupler you'll need some all thread and washers/nuts and a socket or other spacer. Once you break it free put the socket between the trans output shaft and shaft and tighten the all thread between flange and coupler, it'll press the shaft out. Lube threads with oil or antiseize. It's straightforward. Then replace packing rope with 2 or 3 rows of rope, however many fit, using angle cuts (not straight) and stagger joints. Wrap the packing rope around the shaft to make your cuts perfect length. Reinstall and adjust engine alignment for .003" or less gap in any position between coupler and trans output flange. You can probably get it within .001" or so.


2. How much am I looking at to get a cover made with buttons? It already has buttons around the boat, but I was never given the actual cover. I am guessing it would be $500 plus.... Not in my budget at the moment but was curious as I may be able to keep my boat on the water.

A custom snap cover with Sunbrella meterial made for my Saltare was about $750. Two piece and entirely covers the windshield. Mine did not have snaps so he had to measure and install those. Not a fan of the look of snaps, but practicality and ease of use won in this case.

[ckracing]

Thanks for the additional picture post. Good luck finishing out and having fun on the water.
-Chris

[Awill10291]

Cadunkle. Thank you for the in depth reply. Although I am not sure I was able to understand but a few words LOL my uncle owns an older Mastercraft and has repacked his before. He is gonna help me out, but told me I need to order the packing rope and need to find what size I need. Can someone help with what size to buy and how long? What's a good website to buy from and is Gorex the best to go with? He did not mention any other washers or other stuff to buy. Can you specify if ill need anything else? What about that rubber casing that is below the dripping shaft? Looks like a large hose wrapping around the shaft. I know i read it is probably not leaking from there, but it looks very very old! I will show him your post though As well. Thanks very much. So glad I didn't pay $500, but after reading that foreign language (stagger joints, coupler, output flange) I probably would have if it weren't for my uncle. Haha.

Thanks supra forum.

[scottschmitt]

If pictures are helpful, the re-packing process is described well here: http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box.
Skidim.com sells the packing material and may be able to help with the size. I think 1/4" is the most common.

[wotan2525]

Cadunkle. Thank you for the in depth reply. Although I am not sure I was able to understand but a few words LOL my uncle owns an older Mastercraft and has repacked his before. He is gonna help me out, but told me I need to order the packing rope and need to find what size I need. Can someone help with what size to buy and how long? What's a good website to buy from and is Gorex the best to go with? He did not mention any other washers or other stuff to buy. Can you specify if ill need anything else? What about that rubber casing that is below the dripping shaft? Looks like a large hose wrapping around the shaft. I know i read it is probably not leaking from there, but it looks very very old! I will show him your post though As well. Thanks very much. So glad I didn't pay $500, but after reading that foreign language (stagger joints, coupler, output flange) I probably would have if it weren't for my uncle. Haha.

Thanks supra forum.

Can you post a picture of your setup? Thinking you might have a "dripless" system instead of the rope packing. Post a photo and we can help you out.

[Awill10291]

[img=http://s22.postimg.org/s5sym0ijh/20150420_175957.jpg] (http://postimg.org/image/s5sym0ijh/)

can you see from this picture?

[Ptownkid]

Yup, that's a packing nut and you need 1/4" packing if you have a 1" shaft.

[Awill10291]

Yup, that's a packing nut and you need 1/4" packing if you have a 1" shaft.

Just ordered the 1/4 Gore tex stuff.

[cadunkle]

Your packing gland:
http://s22.postimg.org/3pasrjhsw/20150420_175957.jpg

Looks like a standard rope packing gland. Appears to be adjusted all the way in, which means it's time to repack it. Fresh packing and you should be golden. If the hose appears old or is cracked at all you may as well replace it. If your shaft appears at all worn where the old packing was then make the new hose either slightly shorter or longer to ride on a fresh section of shaft.

[Awill10291]

http://omaha.craigslist.org/boa/5074562812.html tons and tons of new parts. Call for details!

[Awill10291]

Pulled her out of storage today. Have some more funds to put into the Beast. Never going back to that mechanic. **NOTE: STILL OVERHEATING. It's NOT the thermostat, regular water pump, imperller, or THE HEADS. Had the heads taken to a machine shop and grinded down. Raw water pump was never replaced. Only Impeller. Unfortunately almost no mechanic/boat shop will take a look at my boat because it's so old and has the engine swap. :( Does ANYONE know of a knowledgable boat mechanic in the Omaha/Council Bluffs/or Lincoln area? Would anyone be down to skype me with my boat hooked up to a fake a lake to determine the overheating issue? Talked to a few guys at the boat show this past Sunday, and they said it's likely the raw water pump. Either needs a rebuild or a whole new pump like other have mentioned on this forum (although according to mechanic that had worked on it the last year it had plently of water flow when hooked up to a fake a lake).... I did talk to a boat mechanic in Omaha today that said it's likely the timing and that the timing needs to be exact and tuned up perfectly in order for the 460 truck engine to run at a normal temperature. He said that should be the first thing I should have a mechanic check and that at idle should be set at 9? and at 32 or 33 when at TOTAL ADVANCE... Of course none of that terminology means anything to me. Any more advice/help from anyone is greatly appreciated. Thanks!