2014 Malibu 22MXZ vs 2014 Supra SC450

[ncjacket]

2014 22 Malibu MXZ Monsoon 350 vs 2014 Supra SC450

Alright all! It's new boat time, and I am looking for opinions and experiences of others. Before I start, I am test driving both boats on the same day on the same lake prior to pulling the trigger on a purchase. For me, I have two really up front, reputable dealers that have (so far) been excellent to work with. If one of them was questionable, this would be over. Give the dealers an equal in my situation. We come from a stern drive world, so I'm really looking forward to moving to V-drives. At the end of the summer, my wife and son (12) learned to wakeboard with a good instructor behind an Axis A22 with the Monsoon 350. So that is my primary base point for comparison.

We will add surfing to our activities this season, and we have some friends who like other activities like kneeboarding & skiing. Likely 50% wake, 30% surf, and 20% Other tow sports. I suspect surfing may grow more over time. We boat in NC lakes where the elevation is ~250ft above sea level. Usual load of ~4-5 adults and ~3-4 kids. Tried to anticipate the Crew's questions!

Let's say for arguments sake that these boats price difference is pretty minimal. I know the wide vs traditional bow differences are important, and I am open to either at this point. Time on the water may tell which we like, thus the demos.

Both appear to be really well made and high quality materials. Rider experiences? Driver experiences? Feature differences? Lounge comfort? Other opinions?

Any and all opinions offered are valuable, and I appreciate the feedback.

Thanks!

[Wylietunes]

I think the 5.7 is too small for the 22 MXZ. If the boat you are demoing has the 5.7, I suggest loading it up with ballast and people, as it will be used. For surfing, thats MLS full + 750's in the rear and a 400 in the walk way. The 7-10 people and see ho it goes. At a minimum, this setup needs the upgraded prop, but even the larger engines will benefit from a prop change. The pre-surfgate MXZ surf wave was, well, nothing to write home about, but the post surfgate with the spray-gate fix, is much better.

[ncjacket]

Thanks Michael! The MXZ I am testing has the torque prop on it (15x12). I plan to test with all ballast loaded (factory +pnp). I forgot to mention that both boats have surf systems (SG & Swell).

FYI...if I buy the SC450, you'll hear from me for tower mounts for wet sounds :-) That's you, right?

[Wylietunes]

Yep, that me.

[wolff]

I been starting to shop around we are looking for a new boat with a surf system because we are starting to surf more. I really like the control of the supra SC I had both dealers run through the controls of the surf system while I behind the boat surfing. With the SC we started with the skim wave and went to the barrel wave and it was easy to surf (did not really have to try) until we were adjust all the way to the barrel wave. With the MXZ (the dealer invited me out I told them what I wanted 400 lb sacks or 750 lb sacs in the back and they did not listen they bought out a stock ballast boat) with the adjustment of the wave there was one sweet spot and that was it. I struggle the hole time while surfing the MXZ. I feel the MXZ would surf a lot better if it was weighted right.
I also surfed behind a Axis this summer that was weight down decent and it took a little bit to find the sweet spot.
I felt with the supra it did not matter where I was in the wave or where the plates on the boat were set at it had a ton of push.

I wakeboard behind both boats and both seem close to equal (add the extra weight in the MXZ and they would be close to the same.

I personally have the SC over the MXZ because the adjustability of the surf wake.

For me I thought the Malibu dealer was the better dealer, been around for a while. I bought a lot of equipment from them they push the sport but did not listen to me.
The Supra dealer is new in our area and has a lot to learn but they at least listen and did what I wanted. So that might of help the supra a little more for me.

I surf a 07 supra 21v right now and the boat has to be slammed with weight and everything has to be perfect to have a good wake. So I am use to hunting for the sweet spot and the new Supra SC took all that work away.

[OneCent]

yeah, i had a 2008 21V and you have to do some work to get a good surfwake. Between Malibu 22MXC and SC450, i would choose the SC450, no question. I don't like the MXZ pickle fork design, the bow takes easy some water... the MXZ is more a wakeboard maschine then a wakesurf maschine. I would choose the Malibu if it was a 2015 22 VLX or 23 LSV. ..... at the end i sold my 21V and replaced it with a used G21.

[ncjacket]

Recently, I was able to test drive and demo two excellent boats back-to-back: 2014 Malibu MXZ and 2014 Supra SC450. I thought I would share my experiences and observations, for what THOSE are worth :-)

How were the boats configured:

2014 Malibu MXZ
Monsoon 350
Torque Prop (15x12)
Hard Tanks Only (including bow MLS)
2 people in the boat

2014 Supra SC450
Indmar LS3 450
Acme 1235(14.5x14.25) Prop
Hard Tanks (3)
PnP Bags (2x550 rear and 1x?? front (forgot to check the size)
2 people in the boat

NOTE: Boats were tested as spec’d and priced by the respective dealers. The SC PnP comes with bags for example and the MXZ does not…so that is how I tested it. I tested the props and configurations of the “As-is” options that came on the boats that I can purchase out of their inventory. Prop choice, etc.

EVALUATIONS

General Build Quality & Design
Maybe it is odd to compare these two, as one is pickle fork and the other traditional. Truth is, they both communicate a purposeful style; bull nosed, deep, and angular; or sharper, longer angular lines. I like them both for what they are. Bottom line: it’s personal style preference.

Both boats are well thought out, manufactured with quality materials and craftsmanship. I would give a very slight perceived edge to the MXZ when it comes to seating surfaces. The seats/padding/vinyl seemed a bit more robust. Just like the design, the MXZ has a much larger bow area suitable for three adults. The SC is smaller in the bow, but VERY deep. The bow is comfortable on the SC. Since the bow of the SC is smaller, the lounge is bigger…just what you expect. The SC was more thoughtful about storage and access. For example, you could access storage from the lounge area seat or through the bow seat back. The compartment just behind the drivers seat houses the trash can and a small area. The SC also allows access to areas under the bow cushions, so if the PnP is not used, it would be pretty usable storage. The flip up seat on SC is poorly supported, and almost an afterthought compared to the MXZ wake view seating option. However, it is not as critical since the permanent rear facing seat in the SC is part of the lounge design.

The tower designs are different. Both boats mount tower speakers to the edges and sides, which keeps good clearance to walk through the lounge area. Both towers seem very stable and functional. People tend to either love or hate the look of the Roswell PRO Edge tower on the Supra. For me, I like it. It feels more rigid than the Malibu tower, but I think it has to be. The Malibu forward sweep is set more against the rearward force of a rider whereas the PRO Edge needs strength to compensate for the more vertical geometry. One design flaw on the MXZ tower…standard garage door heights are 8 feet high. I had to remove the board racks to fit into my garage (95” measured clearance due to trim molding). Malibu states with board racks and tow bar height to be 8’1”. I believe them. I think some of that has to do with the helm being a bit further back on the MXZ and the tower rests on the dash when at it’s lowest point. The SC tower is designed to truly be self supported such that when unlocked it will not drop by itself. If you have to lower and raise the tower on a regular basis, low bridges where you boat or garage like me, the PRO Edge tower is easier and a true one person, minimal strength required job. The SC did require you to pivot the driver seat a bit to allow room for the bimini support, but with that done, no part of the tower touched any seating or soft surface.

Both driver seats were comfortable and pretty adjustable with flip up bolsters, but the power height and memory for the SC seat was a plus. Part of me says, oh great something else to fix! However, if I want a set, it sure helps to have my wife feel like the helm fits her well :-) The SC seat is also heated. Zero Off is standard on the SC450, but the MXZ had paddle wheel based cruise.


Drivability & Handling
Sitting at the helm, both boats are well thought out and instrumented. I know the 2015 Malibu is all digital dash, but I still like having some analog gauges as well to see at a glance. Both boats fit that bill. Having two separate screens on the Malibu is a plus AND a minus. It offers more options as to your preferred helm readouts, but also adds some complexity. I also typically use polarized sunglasses on the water, and the MXZ screen did not like those! In contrast, the SC digital is only a single screen that was a bit more intuitive to use, maybe not as many customization options, but a bit easier. In lieu of a second screen, the SC offers up manual toggle switches for ballast and other functions as redundant controls. Again, the choice is kind of nice to have since you can use switches by feel without looking as you grow accustomed to it.

With little weight in the boat ( a couple folks and no ballast), the MXZ ride quality was better than the SC. The water hitting the hull created a noticeably noisier ride in the SC. No rattles, creaks, or other structural sounds were evident on either boat. When you added weight (ballast for example) the noise and ride quality evened out to be close to the same. Both boats turned extremely well! The Malibu seemed a little bit flatter, but the SC turned tighter and even with the 450 thrust carved under power without hesitation or slip. Primary driver note was steering feel. The MXZ was a little heavier steering with more feel. The SC is a lighter wheel with a bit less feedback. Reminded me a lot of BMW M3 hydraulic steering vs Audi electric power steering. Both precise and capable, and neither wrong…just different.

There is always a bit of argument about how the Monsoon 350 drives with lots of weight. It was clear that when loaded the 350 (even with the torque prop) was working pretty hard. Well within design parameters, but working hard :-) Remember, no bags in my test of the MXZ. I did feel that the new wedge setup on the 2015 will be a NICE add for the 350 as far as initial planing. For those who say they cannot feel the difference in the 350 vs the 450…need to recheck your calibration. I noted that the LS3 in the SC (with about 1500 pounds more ballast) could stay more in the middle rpm range and not rev as high. Now what I noted was that the lounge was quieter and speed was maintained with less engine drama. Both engines worked, but the 450 was clearly more relaxed doing it.

The Malibu throttle was (as expected) smoother than than the SC setup, but the difference was less than I expected.

Before I talk about my observations about the wakes, let me say this: No matter what boat or what system you have, they all take expertise to tune the wakes to the best they can be. The “works out of the box” mantra is pure hype. Boat weighting, water conditions, boarder speed, etc. all play a role. Lots of boats (especially these two) create very good wakes with minimal adjustment. However, to get great, clean, balanced wakes takes experience and precise work on the part of the driver that knows the boat in question and how to tune it. Alright…off my soapbox.

[ncjacket]

Wakeboard Setup
For me, I wanted to see how the boats could meet a range of skill and ability levels. Both of these boats suit a range of riders from novice to advanced. Heck, there are plenty of pro riders behind both of these rigs. Both boats were able to craft and shape the wake effectively. At lower speeds, with little ballast, both could get clean wakes between 16-17. At 21-22 mph, both had clean heel and toe side wakes. Both size of the wake and slope were adjustable. The angle at which the wakes separated from the centerline was different. The MZX were a bit shallower, whereas the SC wakes parted a bit more sharply. I felt that the wedge setup on the MXZ made a bit more dramatic impact on the wake than the SC wake plate. Although both made clean, crisp wakes, I would give the edge to the MXZ due to the overall table and wake shapes. I don’t think many folks would complain if either of these where their full time tow boat!

Surf Wave Setup
Both boats were equipped with their respective Surf Gate and Swell surf systems. Now, we are new to the surfing, so I am not an expert by any means. I suspect we will do more and more throughout the life of our new boat! Both surf systems performed as advertised. The MXZ SG system & wedge are simple and easier to use than the Supra Swell system. Now please remember that I only had stock hard tanks for this test. The wave was nice…not OMG look at the length of that pocket…but nice. I know it will get longer and bigger with more weight, but I tested as-is.

The Swell system has more configuration options than the MXZ. That was both good and bad. The bad: it has more bits to tweak to create just the right wave. The good: it has more bits to tweak to get just the right wave. SG is easier to use, and Swell could be refined more. Both systems offer side changes without shifting a bunch of ballast around and work. The MXZ SG setup offers the surfer an audible beeping to time a cut over maneuver whereas the SC…nada. I will say (I am sure PnP ballast aided) the SC450 had a better surf wave. It was a good bit longer and more defined than the MXZ.

I liked how both systems controlled the surf wave without listing. The SG system does create a counter steering pull related to its design, but that is expected and well know. There was less of that with the Supra Swell system.

The most noticeable surf difference to me was the boat attitude while at surf speed. The driver visibility over the bow was flat out superior on the SC. I think this is attributable to a couple things. First, the SC is more “helm forward” traditional bow compared to the MXZ. For this reason, I suspect the 2015 22VLX will have better visibility than the 22MXZ too! The second reason is the Supra wake plate. Whereas the Malibu wedge pulls the transom down, the Supra wake plate (for old school people like myself, read “trim tab”) adjusts the nose down to force more hull in the water. When you add the power height adjustment feature in this mix, the driver setup was better for surfing in the SC. I liked the turn signal stalks on the column of the SC. One adjusts the speed and the other the wake plate. They could easily be adjusted without taking your eyes of the water.

Conclusions
A quick word on my dealers. They are both great to deal with. They have known each other a long time, and they both supported we trying them both out to find what boat is best for me and my family.

Both the Malibu 22MXZ and the Supra SC450 are great boats. We can debate them like car guys debate a Corvette Stingray and Porsche 911. At the end of the day, they are both more capable than most of us amateurs! MY conclusion is yet to be written. I am currently taking a final look at the economics of each boat option and evaluating my priorities. I’ll follow up soon with photos on whatever rig I end up buying.

[cjtpilot]

Great review, unbiased and very insightful!. Its nice to read an honest opinion on two different boats.

[wolff]

Good Review sounds like you are going in the right direction you are looking a two good boats and sounds like you got good dealers to back them up.

[RickT]

Nc,

If we can help in any manner from the factory, please don't hesitate to let us know. My email is [email protected]

Best of luck in your search,

Rick

[Diggs]

Any outcome on this? I am just seeing it and have an SC and used it all last year. Really loving the boat. If there are any questions you have, drop me a line.

[ncjacket]

Thanks Diggs & Rick!

I was out traveling for work last week (How dare work interfere!). I won't hesitate to reach out, and I am planning on wrapping it up early this week.

[Diggs]

ncjacket - Got your message and shot you one back. You should reach out to RickT for a factory tour. I just had some friends go out there for a tour and they toured all the factories and they all agreed the SC factory was the best experience.

[Diggs]

ncjacket - Do you have something to share?

[SupraLaunch21V]

NC Jacket - if you're touring the factory I might go with you. I'm in Apex - right around the corner from ya. JY

[ncjacket]

Alright All...Here is my final part of this buying chapter!

Conclusions - Part 2

So, after all my evaluations on and off the water, we have decided to purchase the 2014 Supra SC450. There was really two significant performance difference that played a role: first, power to weight; and second boat attitude at surf speeds. In an attempt to address these two issues, I reevaluated the possibility of a 2015 Malibu 22VLX with the 6L 409 engine. I felt the smaller traditional bow and more forward helm compared to the MXZ would improve the visibility over the bow at surf speeds. I felt at a minimum the 6.0L 409 engine would provide me more peace of mind than the 350. I do think in a pretty short timeframe the 350 will phase out across brands, and the 409 will be the base standard. My Malibu dealer put a great offer forward to get me into the 2015 22VLX, but in the end it boiled down to some personal little things that worked better for us. Those details are mentioned below:

As we have a garage at our home for storage, the Supra PRO Edge tower was much simpler and easier to take up and down. The assist design and cam locking means my life, my son, or myself could easily lower and raise the tower without effort or assistance.

Having a power seat with memory settings makes it much easier for us to change drivers, and my wife liked the power height adjustment. It made her feel more confident in driving and maintaining optimal visibility.

Supra had a little more storage flexibility. Several of our lakes have no houses or docks. SO when we head out…we are gone a while! For hikers in the bunch, it is a bit like selecting a backpack: small storage conveniences are really appreciated during repeated usage! For example, the small space behind the subwoofer enclosure is not wasted on the Supra. Lifting up the back of the bow seat allows access to a small (but valuable) space with storage nets. Areas under the bow cushions are accessible as well. Combining these with the permanent rear facing seat storage, and it all adds up!

When we thought about most of our boating guests, it was noted that having the bow walk through extend into the seating area was a nice to have. Supra uses a more “horseshoe” bow bag whereas the Malibu has the MLS hard tank fixed under the bow filler cushion area. That offered us a little more flexibility as to who was likely to ride up front.

I had good feedback from both Malibu and Supra owner communities. Skiers Choice did get a boost in my decision since a company employee both responded to my post and reached out directly to answer some additional questions on construction methods and such. I know Malibu takes good care of boat owners too, but (as a potential buyer) my brief personal interactions with the employee underscored the Supra brand to me.

In general, the we were pleased with the helm forward designs that the more traditional bows offer. I believe that as surfing popularity increases, we will see a resurgence in traditional bow shapes. My observations were that the more helm forward, traditional bows offer improved visibility for the slower speeds and higher riding bow attitudes of wake surfing. I know you can move weight around, but it’s just like a fine sports car…there is no substitute for proper balance, and that starts with geometry.

In closing this chapter, I want to say that both of these boat brands are backed by quality organizations with top notch people. I would NOT hesitate to recommend either of the dealers I worked with to anyone looking for a fine wake sports boat from a quality dealership.

We’ll be ready for spring in our 2014 Supra SC450!!
15360

[Wylietunes]

Congrats, thats a good looking boat! Didnt realize you were dealing with Southtown, great crew there.

[Mobius22]

Congrats on your SC!! You will love it!

[RickT]

NC,

That is great to hear!! Tell Danny and the crew hello!

[Diggs]

Sweet choice... I almost built my boat the exact same color scheme. Congrats to the family.

[KG's Supra24]

Skiers Choice did get a boost in my decision since a company employee both responded to my post and reached out directly to answer some additional questions on construction methods and such. I know Malibu takes good care of boat owners too, but (as a potential buyer) my brief personal interactions with the employee underscored the Supra brand to me.

We’ll be ready for spring in our 2014 Supra SC450!!
15360


Lol ... a company employee ...

Congrats on the new boat! You will love it! I really like the Z5

[tg0824SSVGG]

Lol ... a company employee ...

KG - that made me laugh too -- NcJacket, You do know that RickT is the TOP DOG of the employees, right?

Excellent write up - I am jealous of your new boat - but I am still loving everything about my 2008 still too!

[ncjacket]

I did not feel like it needed to be overstated :-)
It's not about managing a company...It's about leading one!
Like I said...It spoke to the values of the brand.

Reminds me of one of my favorite quotes:

“I believe no amount of business school training or work experience can teach what is ultimately a matter of personal character... Thus, a business, successful or not, is merely a reflection of the character of its leadership.”
----S. Truett Cathy, founder of Chick-fil-A

I think Skier's Choice is in good hands.