Cap on????

[Supranewbee]

Is it possible to leave the cap on when you replace the floor? I bought an 86 sunsport recently. The po started a refurb about 10 years ago but stopped part way through upholstery. It's been sitting since 97. Believe it or not I hooked up a gas can to it with a new battery and it started on the 3rd try. However, the floor is shot. The top was fiberglassed but the bottom was bare. The stringers seem to be in good shape except for the crossmbers which weren't glassed either:(. I have the floor out along with the wet foam. I live in an apartment complex so this is already a pretty big project. I have no way or place to store the top cap. Can the floor be replaced without removing the cap? I don't want to do a half a$$ job.

[Supranewbee]

30 views and no one replied.... You are hurting my feelings. Please, I need help. I've read all over this site and can't find anyone who has done just the floor.

[leetudor]

The floor goes all the way to hull wall. Without removing or lifting the deck you cannot remove and replace the complete floor.

[flipz96]

I believe TitanTN did a cap on floor replacement. http://supraboats.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=7839

I think the toughest thing about your scenario is that you don't have a good place to do the work. Its all time consuming and messy and don't know how tolerant your property manager/association is.

[Supranewbee]

Thanks for the suggestion Flipz96. Unfortunately TitanTn doesn't have the lip at the bottom like mine does. I don't think I have any other option except take the cap off. There is just no way that I can see to seal the floor to the hull. I'm thinking I could raise the rear of the cap and lay a 2x4 across the hull under the ski locker. That would hold it up a good 12" or so. I think I could do basically the same thing in the front. Thoughts..... Maybe I could be the first one on here to do a cap off in an apartment complex :)

[Salty87]

Lots of reasons to remove it...too much rot, makes the job easier, fiberglass dust gets EVERYWHERE regardless of how much tarping you do, it's a shame to do 95% of the job and cut any corners....

At the end of the day though it's your boat and only you can see what you're working with. Rebuilds have been done with the top on. Were they harder?...no way to compare. Were they as good?...who knows. Regardless, it's not hard to do a better job than the factory or even a rebuilder who did all of the work but didn't glass the underside of the floor (what was he thinking?). It wouldn't take much for a rebuild with cap on to be better than one with the cap off and corners cut like that.

Grinding is really the nastiest part of the job and if you can get away with doing that in an apartment complex, storing the cap should be nothing in comparison. Getting it off is another story but there are many ways to do that. Some have even removed the cap elsewhere and trailered to wherever they did the rebuilding.

I don't want to come across as short but saying it's ok over the internet doesn't mean too much. It's best to remove it. If you can't...you can't. Again, the factory left alot to be desired so it's not the end of the world to leave it on. Don't notch your stringers for cross members and decide on a better solution than poured foam and you've knocked out the biggest problems in the original production...and glass the underside of the floor! lol

PS...just re-read your comment about the lip of the cap. If that's what I'm thinking, it's not structural. Cut that sucker off and put a piece of trim to hide it like lots of other models. Got pics?

[Jetlink]

Dirtydawg removed that lip you are talking about in his rebuild. But he also did a full cap off job.

[chris young]

My opinion does not come from experience, so take it for what it's worth. My boat may never get redone, the PO put a new floor over the old one, and from an operational standpoint, it's fine. The only stringers I worry about are the ones under the motor. I'd love to dig in to it and do a nice rebuild, but the boat lives at my cottage, and I want it in the water all summer, so I'd need heated work space larger than the boat in order to re do it.

I strongly believe that if you don't have the original mold, taking the cap off greatly complicates the rebuild if you want to get the hull straight. A great amount of the strength of the main structure of the hull, is the box that is created by the floor being bonded to the hull at the sides, and then tied together by the stringers. The remainder is provided by the cap being tied to the hull. Pulling the cap and the floor leaves you with a flexible hull. If you replace all the stringers and bond the floor back with the hull flexed, it'll stay that way. At least if you leave the cap in place, when you remove all the structure of the floor, you'll still have a shot at keeping the hull a bit truer than had you pulled the whole thing apart because the cap will somewhat hold the hull true.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad idea to take the cap off, just that there are some advantages and disadvantages to doing the resto either way.

[Okie Boarder]

Cap off seems like the best method. It worked well for me and all the others that did it that way. I agree with Salty that it is the best way to get to all the areas for repair and ensures the job is done complete.

[Supranewbee]

Well, I think I'llreally do some brainstorming on how I could get it done with the cap on. On top of having nowhere to put the cap I have no idea how i would lift it. I'll definitely post some pics this weekend so you all can see what I'm working with. Thanks so much for all your replies!

[flipz96]

Well, I think I'llreally do some brainstorming on how I could get it done with the cap on. On top of having nowhere to put the cap I have no idea how i would lift it. I'll definitely post some pics this weekend so you all can see what I'm working with. Thanks so much for all your replies!

You can check with a boat yard and see how much they would charge to let the deck sit covered on their lot for a month. They usually have fork lifts on site. Its worth exploring.

[Jetlink]

Well, I think I'llreally do some brainstorming on how I could get it done with the cap on. On top of having nowhere to put the cap I have no idea how i would lift it. I'll definitely post some pics this weekend so you all can see what I'm working with. Thanks so much for all your replies!

You could make a pair of these...
15398

[Hagman]

That shop is just way to clean.

[Supra_Comp]

I did a cap on resto with the stringers and floor, mostly because we did not have the facility to take it off.

It was really difficult with the lip but it can be done. If you can, take the cap off; just makes life a lot easier.

[wotan2525]

That shop is just way to clean.

Aircraft hangar. ;)

[chautauquasun]

Having considered keeping the cap on and restoring but then taking the cap off and seeing the amount of rot that had to be replaced, simply stated: Cap Off.

[Supranewbee]

No doubt, taking the cap off is the way to go but I'm going to take the road less traveled and leave it on. My stringers are in pretty good shape except for the cross members which were replaced with raw wood. Needless to say they are rotten. The floor came out really easy as it was all rotten. I cut along the lip of the side wall leaving the fiberglass from the top of the floor still connected to the hull. My plan is to install plenty of cross bracing and slide the new fiber glassed floor right under the fiberglass lip left from removing the floor. At least that's the plan.... I hope to add pics soon. I've noticed a lot of pics seem to disappear from posts. How do you attach so they will remain linked to your post?

[Jetlink]

Aircraft hangar. ;)

What was the give away?

[wotan2525]

What was the give away?

I've never seen a shop with a door like that.

[TitanTn]

It can be done either way. I too think it's best with the cap off, but as it has been said, it has advantages and disadvantages both ways. You can do yours even with the lip, but it'll make it that much harder. It's also possible to cut off the lip and cover the edge with some trim later. The bottom line is that you have to decide what works for you.

[wotan2525]

I did mine with the cap on. In hindsight, I'd pull the cap. But it's been 7 or 8 years and I'm still doing fine with the stringers/floor that redid with the cap on.

[Supranewbee]

154471544815449
Here are some pics of my progress. The foam isn't wet until I get to the bottom 1" or so, except under the gas tank which seems to be wet all the way through.

[Supranewbee]

1545015451
Not exactly in the correct order but you get the idea. I've got 90% of the foam out as of this weekend.

[Kma4444]

So how rotty was it? Rotty, that's a good term

[Supranewbee]

The floors pretty much fell apart in my hands. All the cross bracing was raw wood so it was mush as well. Surprisingly, the stringers seem good. I plan on drilling a few limber holes so hopefully I don't find that the stringers are just mush inside a solid fiberglass casing.

[Supranewbee]

154521545315454
It's crazy what can be hiding under a little fiberglass. The floor only had two small soft spots.

[Salty87]

Stringers usually rot where they're notched for cross braces. You're at about stage 4 of the rebuilders denial syndrome...the 'maybe I won't have to re-do all of it' stage. lol Stage 1-3 is do I have to pull the engine, do I have to pull the topcap, and it's only a few soft spots.

As always, I hope you get lucky. At some point you'll be so far into it there's no point in not doing it all the way.

[Supranewbee]

Ouch! Why do you have to be so mean😃

[Jetlink]

Ouch! Why do you have to be so mean��

He's just being realistic. Most "small" projects start out this way, and then you poke here and poke there and then you step back and realize that you have pulled the engine and trans out and split the top cap from the hull and wonder how that happened.

[Salty87]

Ouch! Why do you have to be so mean��

Just about all of us started our projects the exact same way, hoping for a small repair. It's wishful thinking and a few have gotten lucky but it's rare. Look at the Fluff and Buff thread. Mr Hunter knows all about these boats and he still found himself with a stringer job.

[Supranewbee]

I've definitely read the fluff and buff thread. I'm hoping I don't have to take the whole thing apart but only time will tell. One thing is for sure though. There is a ton of information in here and everyone seems to be very willing to help drop the knowledge in us new guys.

[Supranewbee]

I've made a little progress. I've got all the foam out and the stringers definitely have some problem areas. Right now, I'm removing all the upholstered panels and I'm not sure how to disconnect the throttle. Can someone give me some guidance. 15485

[TitanTn]

Look behind that plate where the cable is attached. There is a cotter pin holding that round, threaded bit. Remove the cotter pin and it'll easily slide out.

[Salty87]

Like Titan said or there's another trick. I can't remember exactly if it's forward or reverse but if you move the throttle lever in one of those directions everything lines up a little better. It won't be a straight pull out but the whole unit will slide forward and then wiggle out.

[Supranewbee]

New question... The old stringers stop short of the transom by about 3"-4". Should I do the same thing with the new stringers?

[Okie Boarder]

Say what? You have a pic?

[SquamInboards]

New question... The old stringers stop short of the transom by about 3"-4". Should I do the same thing with the new stringers?

Did they do that so you can reach the bolts for the swim deck? With no motor mounted to the transom, it doesn't *need* to be tied into the floor and stringers. Of course it would be better, but it could make it impossible to bolt on the swim deck. That's my only thought.

[Supranewbee]

Sorry, no picture. I'll try to take one tomorrow. Swim platform bolts are off to either side of the stringers so I don't think that is why they did it that way. It's strange. Of all the pics I've seen of stringer jobs on here I've never seen the stringers stop short of the transom.

[lively]

mine did , but i think it was because they rotted out, but i went back to the transom when i installed the new wood

[Muskoka]

Chris I'm in the same "boat" as you. I can't have the boat out of the water in the summer and have no heated space in winter.
I'm tearing the floor out this weekend and replacing it with as little stringer repair as I can stand before zipping all back together and praying. Maybe next year we should rent a heated spot and do both our boats...

Since I am in a seasonal business I am coming up to my busiest time, I have no spare hours to do this unless it's in winter.
I contacted a repair shop who strongly suggested NOT taking the cap off for the reason of hull strength and deformation if worked on without the cap. They did agree it would be a heck of a lot easier without it, but suggested leaving it on. From all the pics I see here I think it makes sense to take it off and be able to properly work on it but I'm scared it may not go back on properly. But who knows, not me, YET...........

[chris young]

Funny enough, I just bought a house (hopefully, the deal isn't finalized,) but I have now got a heated workspace big enough to do a boat, so who knows? Doubtful that I'd do it this winter but maybe next... I may build new interior stuff this winter though. Problem is I had no plans to move the boat after I bought it, and hence do not have a trailer.

[Muskoka]

If you ever need to borrow mine i know it will fit!

[lively]

It will go back on fine just remove the cap , and leave a 2" of old deck from the walls of the hull and measure off that , if you can use a level and a tape , your deck will be right . Some people even used plumb line to get a visual


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[chris young]

Thanks man, what boat do you have?
Mine's an 84 Rider

[lively]

86 sunsport , just have to pay attention and take a lot of measurements , I used plum line and just set the deck at desired height


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[Supranewbee]

Has anyone ever moved the ski pylon to the back like a V-drive on an old Sunsport? I don't have the money for a tower and the back seat is useless with the current set up. Since the whole floor is torn out I figured now is the time. It may make more sense to just remove it completely and use the loop on the transom.


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[Jetlink]

Has anyone ever moved the ski pylon to the back like a V-drive on an old Sunsport? I don't have the money for a tower and the back seat is useless with the current set up. Since the whole floor is torn out I figured now is the time. It may make more sense to just remove it completely and use the loop on the transom.

It's not wise, the pylon bolts to the stringers and also to the hull below backed to one of the tracking fins, at least that is how it is on my boat and this is for strength. If you are going to end up using the rear tow eye anyways, why not just leave it unless you don't want the handy hand hold when you are driving.

[chris young]

It's a tournament ski boat, with a ski pylon, without the pylon it's just a runabout that's hard to dock and burns too much gas.

Seriously though, why not just buy a skylon? We use one at the club for beginner/advanced wakeboard lessons (though I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to wakeboard when we've got 3 regulation slalom courses:confused:)

[Supranewbee]

jetlink- Good point about the bolts to the tracking fin. I didn't think about that. I'll just leave it alone. Maybe just pull the pylon out if it really seems to be in the way. I've seen a few people one here say they were surprised how much room it seemed to add taking it out. Other people like it for a place to hold on or hang wet jackets etc.


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[TitanTn]

jetlink- Good point about the bolts to the tracking fin. I didn't think about that. I'll just leave it alone. Maybe just pull the pylon out if it really seems to be in the way. I've seen a few people one here say they were surprised how much room it seemed to add taking it out. Other people like it for a place to hold on or hang wet jackets etc.

I have a hard time seeing how it would add much room back into the boat. And it's so useful. skiing, tubing, hand-hold, leaning post, hold lifejackets and/or ski ropes. I've seen people use it as a tie-off cleat, fender line cleat, etc. It's a multi-functional piece of equipment that doesn't take up much space.

I 2nd chrisyoung's post above^^

[Jetlink]

It's a tournament ski boat, with a ski pylon, without the pylon it's just a runabout that's hard to dock and burns too much gas.

This made my day Chris. I was going for practical reasons why I wouldn't move it or remove it but this is a really funny approach.

[foxriverat]

Seriously though, why not just buy a skylon? We use one at the club for beginner/advanced wakeboard lessons (though I can't for the life of me understand why someone would want to wakeboard when we've got 3 regulation slalom courses:confused:)[/QUOTE]
You got that right! My kind of guy.

[Supranewbee]

Lots of good points for keeping the ski pylon. As for buying a skylon, I think I'll pass. Skylons were lame in the 90's and well...they're still really lame.


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[cadunkle]

I have a Skylon, well another brand of extended pylon. Works for me until I bite the bullet on a tower. Rarely ski but I will keep my pylon even after a tower. That is not usable space except maybe storage, and I can stuff things around the pylon if needed (bags, fenders, etc.). My pylon appears to be two piece. The lower piece bolts to one of the tracking fins and into the stringers. The upper piece is the actual pylon and bolts to the lower cradle. I would at least leave the cradle in to tie the stringers and hull together. Just remove the top piece if needed. You can probably get or make a cap for the hole in the floor if you leave it out, and you'll always have the option to install it in a few minutes.

[jasun]

Lots of good points for keeping the ski pylon. As for buying a skylon, I think I'll pass. Skylons were lame in the 90's and well...they're still really lame.


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Might be lame but if you can't afford a tower and you want to get the rope more then 3' off the water what other choice? I have one and it works great for wake boarding. Good luck.


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[Supranewbee]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/24/789d7e26be84dde29ec0c89c0d3575d6.jpghttp://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/24/bdde861ab7da1868e748483008efa270.jpg
Took out the two outer stringers today. How well do I need to grind down all the old fiberglass so the new stuff will bond?


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[Okie Boarder]

You would be best to grind down to the main hull.

[Supranewbee]

Thanks!


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