My 88 Saltare Project

[atlong]

Hey yall, checking in from South Mississippi. Just bought my first inboard boat. Its a 1988 Supra Saltare in pretty good condition. Motor was rebuilt last year and has about 30 hrs on it. The boat itself only has 380ish hours on it. The stingers are pretty solid Id say they will need replace after next summer, thats when I plan to do a cap-off restore regardless. Ive been searching this site and have found a bunch of extremely helpful info. Ive got a buddy at work that used to build race car engines and knows the 454 like the back of his hand, we will be going through it, checking timing, compression and just doing some general maintenance in the next week or so. Probably will be looking at changing the card and intake around that time. Im sure ill be posting some general info requests and a bunch more pics to come.

Plans:
1. Monster MT2 tower (within a couple weeks) I really like the look of SDC77's tower and his pictures sold me on that one.
2. The old girl is gonna need a good cleaning. Ive already started on various parts of the interior.
3. Probably will be looking to add a couple sacs to improve the wake (all hidden I love the size and seating this boat has)
4. Trailer lights need some work, probably will be doing all new LED light kit.
5. Adding another battery and a Perko switch.
6. ALOT more..........

I do have a couple questions to start off with.
1. Is the best method for running these boats out of water, directing plumbing into the hose that the water intake comes from on the bottom. A flush pro type setup?
2. My prop has a few dings in it, what size prop are yall getting the best results out of. Ive read a bunch of info on this topic and it seems there is not a good answer.........

[Wulphie]

When I run mine on the trailer I disconnect the hose from the thru-hull pickup and add a longer length of hose to it, then I submerge that in a wet/dry vac tub or trash can with the garden hose filling that. My water supply can't keep up with what the 454 wants at high idle.

I got decent prop slip numbers with a 14x14 4 blade prop. The prop wash has so much less aeration that the boat tracks and turns better to. I would actually like to try some of the other 4 blades but it is not a top priority.

[atlong]

Im looking at using a 3 way ball valve and some fittings to adapt to a water hose connection. Ill probably try that method tomorrow just to test it out, seeing as the hardware store isnt open on sundays.

What brand prop are you running?

[Wulphie]

That is the setup I have on my boat with a 351w, it works fine for that but the 454 seems to draw a lot more water and my water volume just isn't enough to run the hose direct to the 454.

I bought a Solas prop off of ebay, it was the stock prop off of a early model x-star or something like that. I really can't quite remember but the original owner had bought it new from the dealer to keep as a backup and sold the prop on ebay when he traded in the boat. It would probably not be the exact prop I would buy if I was paying retail price for a new prop but for a couple hundred on ebay I figured what the heck.

[Wulphie]

I actually have the stock 3 blade, I think 13x13 LH prop in good condition. I would sell it for $100 plus shipping if you just want a cheap prop to keep you going. I can post some pics if you are interested.

[Sdc77]

Glad you like my setup man, your boat looks sweet.
Here are pics you asked for and explanations :

Firts you need to remove those panels :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-8.JPG

Use a flat screw driver to go deep behind the cap, and remove it. If you don't go deep enough, it's possible that you remove only the vinyl from the wall thing that include the PEHD ring. If it's the case, just glue it back together.
Then remove the panel. Drill a hole big enough to can through your hand + a tool.

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-9.JPG

Then you need to remove the back of the front seats. Driver side you can access Under the dash, passenger side you can access inside the hatch.

Here are measurements of the legs of my MT2. Actually these are the measurements it should be placed at. Mine is 1" backwards and it's a mistake, because the center window could not open/close until I grind it !
So those measurements should be just perfect to fit the MT2 :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-10.jpg

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-11.jpg

[Sdc77]

Here are other close up :

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-12.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-13.JPG

http://sdch2o.free.fr/perso/bateau/supra/MT2-14.JPG

[atlong]

You are the man! I just bought a 12x30 canopy to get it out of the weather. Ill be looking at doing the tower in a couple weeks and those pics are going to help out so much.

I took the boat out this weekend on the lake. I have a couple of questions for yall.
1. My idle was set high right around 1000 RPMS, we adjusted it down and now she isnt wanting to start without some throttle. What are yall running for idle RPMs.
2. In reverse I have a "whine", not very loud but noticeable. My buddy says his older Nautique does it too and its normal. Is it?
3. I can't see any visible leaks from the bottom of the boat, but I'm having to run my bilge probably every 30mins or more for just a couple of mins to get out a little water. Im hoping this is normal and coming from the driveshaft seal, like my buddy suggested. Any thoughts?

Thanks ya'll

[Sdc77]

You're welcome ;)

1. My idle when engine is cold (I remove the choke system) is about 600rpm, 900rpm warm on neutral. On forward gear I'm at 600rpm. No need throttle to start the engine even after 10 days off. Just a spray of fuel from the Accelerator pump is enough to start the engine. You should check idle mixture screws, any air leak, timing, and, check if the secondary plates are perfectly closed and can't move. If it moves, bend the throttle linkage until it can't move. It was THE problem of my engine for 3 seasons !

2. Whine in reverse is normal. I even find it quiet on my Saltare regarding the loud whine on a friend's new Mastercraft X14. It sounds like the transmission is going to jump out of the boat ...

3. Those old ski boats leak from everywhere ! Every hole is not sealed : rear Platform, pilot speedo airguide etc.
Water must leak from the stuffing box. Check this link for informations : http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/stuffing_box&page=1
Mine is running the blidge every hour. I added 2 automatic blidges (Attwood Sahara S500), and no problem since 4 years.

[gogger]

I had an 1989 Saltare and sold it last year. Had the MT2 tower, liked it a lot. However the prop I went with a ACME 543 three blade prop and it dramatically improved the performance of the boat. Everything was better especially the hole shot. I may have lost a mile of two off the top end. But I liked the boat way better with the ACME prop. And I had the 454.

[Sdc77]

Hi gogger, wich altitude did you run your Saltare ? The 543 seems very small pitch (13x11.5), good for high altitude or/and for very high load/ballast, wakesurf/wakeboard.

Bill Weeks from ACME propose me for "normal" use at sea level :
"ACME 1459" - 13.00X14.00VL3B 1.00 .135 cup three blade nibral

For more power / less top speed "wakeboarding prop" :
"ACME 431" -13.00X13.00VL3B 1.00 .080 cup three blade nibral

[Jetlink]

Less than 1,000 feet MSL I would bet. What's the altitude above MSL where you ride? You have to get closer to and above 2,500-3,000 feet MSL before you start seeing performance drops I bet.

[1000springsskier]

I have an '88 Saltare, running 3000-4000 ft above sea level, prop is a 4 blade Acme, 13x13x1. Great hole shot, tops out at 40-42 at around 4000-4200 rpm. I try not to run it up there for long as the manual says 3600 rpm for sustained cruising. 454 PCM, Holley 4 barrel.

I also have to run my bilge a few times each day. My local shop said it is most likely the rudder shaft seal. Boats this age need that replaced, but it is pretty tough to get to so I just keep running the bilge and I don't worry about it.

Transmission definitely makes more noise in reverse than forward but doesn't seem to do anything weird other than be a little noisy.

I'll look forward to seeing your posts on the cap off restore you have scheduled! I certainly don't want to do one, but i love seeing other peoples hard work pay off!16025

[wotan2525]

I also have to run my bilge a few times each day. My local shop said it is most likely the rudder shaft seal. Boats this age need that replaced, but it is pretty tough to get to so I just keep running the bilge and I don't worry about it. 16025


There should be a grease zerk on that rudder port. Give it a few pumps of grease and it will leak less. It is a pain to remove and reinstall the rudder port.

[atlong]

Sounds like all the discussion on props is a difficult item. Ive heard great things about 3 blades and 4 blades. I guess i need to do a little more research on that. Ill check out the idle this weekend when i get some time off work and when its not raining.

I have been cleaning the crap out of the interior as of lately. I tell you what those friggin Mr Clean Magic eraser with a combo of a couple different cleaners has done amazing things.

Both of my speedos do not work but the tube is unhooked on the back of the boat. Ill be working on that this weekend. Anyone used one of these????
http://www.westmarine.com/buy/teleflex--amegagps-speedometer-0-35mph-black--11886918

[gogger]

You should talk to Nettle props. Pretty sure they would guide you in the right direction. The CNC design of the newer 3 blade props gives you more surface area than the old 4 blades. Just what I was told. But I would give them a call if I were you. And I had a pirata. Not sure why I said Saltare.

[Salty87]

Nettles is a great prop shop.

Careful with the Magic Erasers. The name should really be super fine sandpaper. They strip a fine layer off whatever you're cleaning which includes wax on fiberglass or protective layers of vinyl.

[atlong]

Nettles is a great prop shop.

Careful with the Magic Erasers. The name should really be super fine sandpaper. They strip a fine layer off whatever you're cleaning which includes wax on fiberglass or protective layers of vinyl.

Good to know. I'll be searching for some vinyl protectant to re oat everything with after I finish cleaning.

[Jetlink]

Good to know. I'll be searching for some vinyl protectant to re oat everything with after I finish cleaning.

303 multi-surface cleaner is where I would go for cleaning vinyl. They also have a vinyl protectant.

[Sdc77]

Hey man, how is the Saltare going ?

[atlong]

Not too good haha. My 4th July river ride ended abruptly when the motor lost all oil pressure. Pretty sure it blew some type of seal or something. I haven't pulled a plug yet to try and turn it over by hand to see if it's locked up, but I'd prolly say it is. Looks like my complete rebuild just got rescheduled to NOW.

[atlong]

Well i took the plugs out and tried to turn it over this afternoon. It turned over fine but after about half a rotation something fell and banged around in the oil pan. Defiantly some metallic. The motor will be coming out this weekend and then Ill start pulling everything off the cap to get ready to separate the cap from the hull. Looks like my cap off rebuild just got pushed up to NOW. Defiantly going to need yalls help on a few things along the way.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/BF109B43-0714-4DC6-9818-9B2E6072BE10_zps5zs2eycr.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/BF109B43-0714-4DC6-9818-9B2E6072BE10_zps5zs2eycr.jpg.html)

[Sdc77]

Doesn't sounds good man, are you sure it's not the gauge that simply died ? I ask because I had the same problem 2 years ago, the gauge suddenly goes to zero pressure, but it was finally the gauge itself that dies.
Those 454 are monsters, it seems hard to kill them.
Hope your case is not too bad ...

[atlong]

Doesn't sounds good man, are you sure it's not the gauge that simply died ? I ask because I had the same problem 2 years ago, the gauge suddenly goes to zero pressure, but it was finally the gauge itself that dies.
Those 454 are monsters, it seems hard to kill them.
Hope your case is not too bad ...

I turned it over by hand yesterday evening and it's not locked up. But, there is something metallic rattling around in the pan. I'm thinking a rod end or bearing. I started unplugging and disconnecting stuff last night to prepare to pull it this weekend at work. I'm going to bring it up to work and use one of our big overhead cranes to yank it out.

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/BF109B43-0714-4DC6-9818-9B2E6072BE10_zps5zs2eycr.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/BF109B43-0714-4DC6-9818-9B2E6072BE10_zps5zs2eycr.jpg.html)

[atlong]

Got everything disconnected this evening in order to pull the motor this weekend. Started pulling the interior also. I got the drivers seat out and down the basement along with a couple of the removable seat bottoms. Tomorrows goal is to get the rear benchand, ski locker, and sunning platform out along with the observer's seat.

Quick question. Ive tugged on the back to the observer's seat and it seems like its glued to the cap? Is this true or is it screwed to it? Im having a hard time deciding how to take some of that stuff off like the backs to the rear bench seats also.

Thanks

[UKandH]

Mine front seats are screwed in from the rear and side, its a bit of a ball ache to get to the side screws :(
Rear seats on mine are just screwed to the floor and the rear section is rested in place with no screws, im not sure how yours is done...sorry :(

[jasun]

I think mine was either screwed in from under the glove box or on the port side of the cap. If I take off the big trim piece the runs on the inside of the boat, there is a nice 6" hole cut there that you can reach it from.

[jasun]

Here is my build for Reference

http://s919.photobucket.com/user/jasunderland/library/boat%20rebuild

[wotan2525]

Mine are through-bolted. You can access the nuts through the speaker holes or there is a nice access hole cut behind my trim panel on the side.

[atlong]

Started pulling it all apart in preparation for pulling the cap off. Looks like I was #12http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1083_zps4vmi5ljg.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1083_zps4vmi5ljg.jpg.html)

This is going to help out so much when putting her back together http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1086_2_zps6pttzfn5.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1086_2_zps6pttzfn5.jpg.html)

I took the boat up to work this weekend to pull the motor and gas tank. We have big overhead cranes at work which made it a breeze. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1087_2_zpsahem0aoy.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1087_2_zpsahem0aoy.jpg.html)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1097_zpsbuzovp3q.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1097_zpsbuzovp3q.jpg.html)

[atlong]

Got the motor out and found out what why she decided to quit on me. Look like a threw a rod or two. http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1090_2_zpsboumz653.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1090_2_zpsboumz653.jpg.html)

Pulled the tranny off and loaded everything up to take it back home.
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/kk164/88saltare/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1094_2_zpsazg2sfnf.jpg (http://s280.photobucket.com/user/88saltare/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_1094_2_zpsazg2sfnf.jpg.html)

Ive got to remove the observers seat and the front play pen area. Then remove everything around the helm. Remove the rub rail and drill out all the rivets. Hopefully Ill be splitting the hull and the cap this upcoming weekend.

[atlong]

1639416394

I have not updated this thread in a while and I have been making slow but steady progress on the boat. I'm about ready to separate the cap and hull.

How do I remove the steering cable from the box shown in this picture??
Thanks

[Jetlink]

1639416394

I have not updated this thread in a while and I have been making slow but steady progress on the boat. I'm about ready to separate the cap and hull.

How do I remove the steering cable from the box shown in this picture??
Thanks

In your picture, the side of the helm away from your foot or whoevers foot that is towards the top of the picture there is a little hole in what appears to be a round portion of the assembly that is perpendicular to the rotation of the wheel and cable travel. There is usually a "key" that goes in there to release the teeth on the steering gear from the cable, do that and pull the cable through. Repeat the process when you go to install the cable again.

[atlong]

Thanks man! I will get that taken off tonight then I should be almost ready to separate the cap.

I've been noticing tell tell signs that this boat has been worked on in the past by POs. differences in the stringers in the rear from pictures I've seen but the big sign for me was when I took the rub rail off the track last night, there were no rivets it was screws.

I'm curious to see what the stringers look like when I get the floor off.

[Jetlink]

No problem. That "key" is really just a robust piece of metal/wire that is the diameter of that hole and strong enough to press against the lock in there. If you don't have one, perhaps a small punch might work or a really sturdy paper clip.

[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/27/caca54cc8b6512568ca829ad7affef2c.jpg

I got the steering cable out of the steering box. Thanks! I'm picking away at this project at a pretty good clip (for the schedule I made for myself).

Do I need to remove the throttle to separate the cap from hull? Or can I just let the cap pull the cable out of the boat and fool with it off the hull?

I think all I have left is pulling some wires and unscrewing the rub rail. Which presents a big question.......
I would love to take my boat up to work and use our cranes to separate the cap and hull. The only thing I am unsure of is, has anyone moved their hull on the trailer a couple miles??? I'm about 5 miles from work so the hull would be on the trailer while driving it back home.

Thanks for all y'all's help!


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[lmnelson86]

You don't really NEED to get the steering cable out of the box, I left mine in tact when I did my full restoration. I just moved mine out of the way as necessary, not a big deal at all. I didn't read through your posts thoroughly, so Im not sure if theres a specific reason you're looking to remove it, other than it being in your way.

You can pull the whole panel off, with the shifter, disconnect the shift cable and throttle cable from the motor, and pull it all out.

[atlong]

Really it was just in the way in my thoughts and I'm probably going to replace the box and cable because my steering was "sloppy".


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[lmnelson86]

Fair enough, no better time than the present

[Jetlink]

You don't have to remove the throttle when you split the cap. Just be sure to disconnect the throttle at the carb and the shifter cable at the transmission. As for the question about transportation, the hull is really flimsy once the top cap is removed and even more so once the floor and stringers are out.

[atlong]

Ok I'm going to wait and disconnect the throttle afterwards then.
I will only be transporting the hull with the floor and stringers still in when I take the cap off and when I put it back on. The trip is only about 5 miles and I could literally drive 5 mph the whole way if I need to. If I figure out a way to brave the sides with 2x4s or something do you think I'll be alright?


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[Jetlink]

You can brace them, but as soon as the top cap comes off, the hull tends to flex out, at least mine did and I think everyone else who has done this has experienced this as well. I'm sure you'll be fine, I'm just really particular when it comes to handling my boat.

[atlong]

I defiantly don't want to cause more harm then good by risking it.
How do yall think the cap on a Saltare weights?


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[lmnelson86]

I towed my bottom and top deck around town separately with no problems and no bracing whatsoever. Yes, the sides flex, but they don't flex permanently. You can grab the boat and wiggle the life out of it, itll be fine. My bottom half was actually narrow in the center, from about the middle of the engine to just past the drivers seat on both sides. Luckily all of the screws and rivets sucked itll back in to the correct location, which I figured would happen.

[angus2112]

here is how i did mine 16420

[wotan2525]

here is how i did mine 16420

The best way to do it (that I've seen) is to take some 2x6s and notch them and place them across the top of the bottom to keep the sides pinched in. At this point it doesn't make a big deal but when you start glassing, you want these sides to stay the same shape/width as the top cap.

We've seen several people post with problems re-attaching the top cap once they have glassed in new stringers and not accounted for the outward flex of the unsupported side.

[atlong]

Ok I will make some sort of bracing. I'd just like to be able to do it at work where I have access to overhead cranes which will make it a breeze to pull off. Hopefully I can separate it this weekend as long as I can enlist one of my co workers to help for half a day or so.


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[Jetlink]

Make sure that you brace and fully support that top cap when you pull it. I think a wet noddle has more rigidity than certain parts of the top cap, I know on my Comp anything forward of the windshield needed the most bracing and support.

[atlong]

So I'm about to start buying up some materials for the upcoming stringer job. I've noticed a bunch of discussion on types of wood to use.

What type of wood do talk recommend I use to construct the stringers? Also what size?


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[atlong]

Make sure that you brace and fully support that top cap when you pull it. I think a wet noddle has more rigidity than certain parts of the top cap, I know on my Comp anything forward of the windshield needed the most bracing and support.

So a strap around each tie down will not do?


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[Jetlink]

So a strap around each tie down will not do?


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My advice is go slowly once you start pulling the top cap off. That way you can find areas that need a little extra help before you go full steam ahead and end up hating yourself down the road.

[atlong]

https://vimeo.com/139153604

Got the cap pulled off today. Went very smooth actually. All the work is in the prep work really. Having two overhead cranes made it a breeze. Now transporting it back home was another story. Let's just say a 16 foot trailer is not optimal for toting that thing around haha, but that's all I had and it was only a 5 miles drive and I didn't get over 25mph. http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/13/a309383d1c841e0194c88571af3dc107.jpg

I'll be taking all the Carpet up tonight and doing some test cuts on the floor. What's the easiest way to cut up the floor?


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[Jetlink]

Depending on how rotten the wood flooring is, I found an oscillating saw, pry bar and hammer worked well. I also had a "BMF pry bar" on hand just in case but ended up not needing it. Enjoy and welcome to the club.

If you are so inclined and have the ability, take it across a scale first before you start tearing it apart and then weigh it again after you finish.

[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/14/34961c69b924a603fa1e6319938dbd8b.jpg

Some spots of the floor are pretty rotten, and some of it is firm.

I don't think I'm going to go weigh it, I've already got in parked at my house and set up for tearing it down. I am pretty sure at least the rear portion of the stringers have been replaced and judging by the lack of rivets around the cap, I'd say the cap has been removed before.

I have a funny looking strip of wood that runs around the back half, I'll post a pic tonight when I get off work. Not sure if it is the old floor or what.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/14/4972b997a25deac2242377f3c3312f8c.jpg


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[Jetlink]

I weighed it before I took it apart and I also weighed the stuff as I took it out and compared it to the weight of what I was putting back in. Enjoy the treat that lies under that floor. I'll give you a sneak peak and also you will see the hammer, crow bar and saw that I used.
16563

[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/14/b8b4be3d1b851028328f87e3194f20a2.jpg

Is this the original floor or did it come like that from the factory?


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[Salty87]

Mine had that too. Did the bottom of the top cap screw into it? Been too long to remember.

[atlong]

The bottom of the cap was not screwed into the that piece. But... Some sort of re-work has been done on this boat. I know that the rear floor is not stock and I'd assume the cap has been off before be there were no rivets holding it on just screws.


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[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/14/55f4ac15ef7f994cc148e110d609c54c.jpg

Got the ski pole out and some of the center floor cut up.

Does anyone remember how long the stringers were so I can go ahead and buy some material.


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[Salty87]

Not quite 23'....sorry, couldn't resist

I used marine plywood so just bought 6 or 8 sheets of 3/4". Some have used lumber. There are a few scraps of plywood laying around my yard from...wow, close to 10 years ago. They get TX sun and however much rain we get and sit on the ground. Zero signs of water damage, rot or delamination.

Have you decided which you're going to use? Try to find a real lumber yard. Depot's lumber sucks.

[atlong]

I have not decided which I'm going to use yet. The main reason is I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to source a 25 ft stick of 2x12 Doug fir. So you just sandwiched 2 pieces of 3/4 marine ply together?

I guess I really don't need one single piece to run the length of the boat bc I can try two pieces together at a brace point. Can I do that and just get 2x12x12s?


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[Salty87]

Yes, glued and screwed the main stringers for 1 1/2". The outters were just a single sheet of 3/4".

One of the benefits of plywood is the grain is rotated for each ply so there's more strength. There's something like 7 or 9 plys in 3/4".
One of the downsides is plywood will wick water more so than lumber. But, once you see the nastiness waiting for you in the old foam you'll most likely incorporate better drainage in your rebuild. Poured foam does a really good job of ruining drainage.

[atlong]

So calling around at lunch, it has become apparent that no one around me carries this stuff. Finally found a yard that has marine ply, AB. He also might have some 2x12x24 Doug fir he is checking on.

Is AB marine ply good enough to use? $76 bucks a sheet, is that fair?


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[Jetlink]

Where are you at? Just curious. I ended up using dimensional lumber for my rebuild as I was able to shape solid blocks of lumber for the engine to rest on and it came out to be about the same as going the marine ply route anyway. I ended up building and glassing my main stringers in three parts, the engine cradle, forward and rear stringers and then I also made the outer stringers from dimensional lumber as well. Everything ended up being a little thicker, but way more rigid than what I took out which isn't hard to accomplish.

[atlong]

South Mississippi. I'd like to find dimensional lumber but can't find any Doug fir around here, at least not yet. What would be a good alternative


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[angus2112]

i cant get doug fir eather i use lam beams ( lvl ) can get them as long and tall as you want and they are a full 2 inch thick 16571

[Salty87]

^ that looks really nice. Personally, I tried to avoid notching the main stringers. All of mine were rotted at those spots.

Angus, are you planning to improve the drainage compared to what the factory did? (nothing)

$76/sheet for marine ply sounds about right. The extra cost can be recouped by using poly resin. Pros and cons there, too, of course.

I used super dry pressure treated 4x4's for the engine cradle. The factory layered plywood and it wicked water like crazy so I tried to steer clear of that.

[atlong]

I just found a new route I'm debating on now. I can get 4pc 2x12x12 for the main stringers and 4pc 1x12x12 for the outside stringers of kiln dried cypress for around $500. And I don't think I'd need 4 of of each. I'm going to try and get the rest of the floor up tonight to get measurements.


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[wotan2525]

You'll know more when you start cutting into the existing stringers. Mine was all plywood.

[angus2112]

marnards has marine ply 3/4 for $48.00 a sheet
salty yes drainage through out the stringers i epoxy pvc in the stringers so no moister will ever touch the wood 1657416575

[angus2112]

atlont i have used cypress for some projects it a oily wood i would do a test to see how the glass binds to it if it does that is some serious rot resistant wood

and 3/4 ply is $66.99 a sheet 1/2 is 48.00

[atlong]

With the wood being kiln dried it should not be oily correct?

How many sheets do you think I'd use for the stringers alone just so I can get a estimate to compare to the cypress


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[atlong]

Made a little more progress the past couple nights. I'm trying to dedicate at least 1.5 hrs a day to the project.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/f03bc6d54ff4251ba8ee485476beebc9.jpg

The real workhorses of the project. I'm just there to assist.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/ce34fba2d56249f9b30206c58eb47b54.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/627f2ff9a6b48039a5752ec4323e2deb.jpg
If anyone is looking for a large shop vac I highly recommend this ridged! It has been a amazing machine.

I'm having a lot of trouble getting the foam out. The foam is almost like new, this job has been done before but really really crappy. Id probably have all the floor up if it wasn't for this foam. The wet saturated foam is coming out really easy it's the dry foam that's a PITA. I'm almost considering filling the hull up with water and letting the foam soak up water to get it out easier.


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[flipz96]

. I'm almost considering filling the hull up with water and letting the foam soak up water to get it out easier.



If it was refoamed, its probably closed cell foam. Water absorption on the newer foam is pretty low...like 5% so I wouldn't waste any time doing that. I bought a tool from Lowes. I'm not sure what its called but it was cross between a shovel (because of the handle) and a chisel (because the thick piece of flat sharp metal on the end). It allowed me to hack at it at an angle and shave the foam from the hull. It was a huge time saver. I want to say it was under $30. Good luck man! This thread is bringing back memories. =)

[atlong]

I'll defiantly be stoping by lowes to find one of those. It's funny you say that because as I'm using my trench shovel and chisel to try and get this stuff out, I was thinking to myself if I could combine these two I'd be set Haha. I should get a little more done this evening and on Sunday, because tomorrow is a round of golf and college football day!


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[Supranewbee]

A grinder with a wire brush on it will turn that foam into a dust you can vacuum up with a shopvac. It's super quick and virtually no physical labor. Just wear a mask so you don't breath it.


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[atlong]

A grinder with a wire brush on it will turn that foam into a dust you can vacuum up with a shopvac. It's super quick and virtually no physical labor. Just wear a mask so you don't breath it.


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Yeah I actually thought about that too, I can get a flat wire or cup brush from work. You don't think I'll run into problems eating the hull up do you?


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[Supranewbee]

I used the cup style on my grinder right down to the hull. No problems.


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[atlong]

Ok good deal, I'll have to give that a try


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[Jetlink]

Buy one of these and go to town. It went through the wet foam and what very little "dry" foam there was in my boat like a hot knife through butter.

http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-62279.html

[atlong]

I've been using a oscillating tool throughout the project but with a half moon cutting blade. What attachment where you using on that?


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[Jetlink]

I've been using a oscillating tool throughout the project but with a half moon cutting blade. What attachment where you using on that?


Something like this as well as the half moon cutting blade when needed.

http://www.harborfreight.com/2-in-high-carbon-steel-multi-tool-rigid-scraper-blade-61828.html

[atlong]

Yup I've got a scraper blade also. I just haven't used it yet, because I have been focused on getting the floor up and the majority of the foam as I go. I've got the starboard side up and will be working on the port side this week. After I get all the floor up I'll start working on the stringers and worrying about the left over foam then.


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[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/22/706ec120becb258c9b30f77abff7f512.jpg

Which one should I go with for the project I'm completely new to fiberglass, if I was metal I could weld this joker together over head haha. I've done a fair amount of research and kind of understand the difference between expoxys and polys. I'm going to go with poly mainly for cost. But do I NEED poly ester or can I go with a regular poly? If it's regular poly there is a pretty good difference in price between those two polys. I'm guessing I will probably burn through 25 gallons? Anyone have a better estimate?

Also as far as mat and roving..... Again completely stupid on this stuff. Can I go with layers of 1708 throughout the whole project? What do I need as far as fiberglass.

I'm really try to lay out a build schedule for myself and tie a bunch of cost with dates so I can budget and figure out what I can accomplish by when. Time I do not feel is going to be an issue bc I can dedicate a couple hours a day to the project and at least one day out of each weekend. And if I get in a crunch I don't really need sleep and can work a lot more.

Thanks yall I defiantly wouldn't have made it this far without y'all's help!!!


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[atlong]

I meant vinyl ester by the way

[Salty87]

Pretty sure I used the 435. 25 gallons is about right, especially with a learning curve. Was my first fiberglass project and some was definitely wasted along the way. It's not complicated just a little finicky.

Not sure if 1708 was available when I did mine. It says there's mat woven into it. Sounds a hell of alot easier than using mat separately like I did. Mat falls apart so easily your hands turn into mittens in no time when laying out the resin, more like baseball gloves.

[atlong]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/29/3081f4f47a4a7f33a313b10685716e02.jpg

So will this do for laying up the stringers. 3 layers of 1708? Again I'm new to this and any help would be greatly appreciated.


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[Okie Boarder]

I used epoxy resin for mine and ended up around 25 gallons or so. I used the 1708 and did 3 layers, but exactly opposite the layout you have drawn. The first layer extended the least and additional layers extended further. I used the 1708 almost exclusively for all the structural layups. I only used mat and cloth on top and bottom of the floor decking.

[atlong]

I used epoxy resin for mine and ended up around 25 gallons or so. I used the 1708 and did 3 layers, but exactly opposite the layout you have drawn. The first layer extended the least and additional layers extended further. I used the 1708 almost exclusively for all the structural layups. I only used mat and cloth on top and bottom of the floor decking.

So should I switch methods? The only reason I was thinking that route was from a picture in the WEST epoxy system manual I was skimming through online. Why did you choose mat and cloth for the floor decking instead of staying with 1708? Also do you have any idea of how many yards of 1708 you used? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how much to order.
Thanks


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[Salty87]

The idea is for each successive layer of new glass to reach some of the original hull layup. In your schematic the first layer of glass you put down is doing all of the work adhering to the hull. It'll be stronger doing as Okie suggests.

Also, you'll want to knock the corners off the top of the boards so the fiberglass will lay down better. It won't make sharp bends.

[atlong]

Ok I'll switch to that method then. And yes I was going to round the corners before fiberglass, I just didn't want to draw that in Paint haha.


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[Okie Boarder]

So should I switch methods? The only reason I was thinking that route was from a picture in the WEST epoxy system manual I was skimming through online. Why did you choose mat and cloth for the floor decking instead of staying with 1708? Also do you have any idea of how many yards of 1708 you used? I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how much to order.
Thanks


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I wasn't concerned as much about strength on the deck, so I went with thinner material, using a thin cloth on the underside and a thin cloth plus thin mat on the top side. That 1708 is pretty thick...you'll see when you get it. I want to say I got somewhere in the realm of 25 yards of the 1708, but I'm not 100% sure on my recollection.

[atlong]

Ok so I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do now. One more question. Do I need to tab the stringers in with like some 6" strips of 1708 to hold them in place before going with the 3 layers.


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[atlong]

Also I'm really debating on going with vinyl ester or polyester resin. For 25 gallons it's around $250 difference. I know this is a heavily debated subject, but is it really worth the extra money.


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[Okie Boarder]

IIRC, epoxy is less hygroscopic and bonds better. I don't think it has as strong of a smell or VOC issues, as well.

[Okie Boarder]

Ok so I think I have a pretty good idea of what I need to do now. One more question. Do I need to tab the stringers in with like some 6" strips of 1708 to hold them in place before going with the 3 layers.


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I just joined the stringers to the hull with thickened resin, then did the full glassing of three layers over the top.

[atlong]

Im going with vinyl ester, already ordered from us-composites.

I've read from other projects that people have used PL glue and had good success. I think I'm going to go with that method and see how sturdy they are before glassing them in. If they don't feel strong I might tab them in but I'm not sure it will be needed.


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[Salty87]

+1 for PL

Epoxy is also a little easier to mix, 1:1 ratio. No idea what vinylester will be but it'll get er done.

[chris young]

I know it's too late because you've already ordered, but I'll chime in anyways for others considering. I have a lot of experience with epoxy, and pretty much zero (I've done a bit) with the ester resins. When mixing in large quantities epoxy is a no brainer, but in smaller quantities you need to be careful (I measure by weight using a digital scale) as most epoxies will give you both the by weight and by volume ratios. They may be but are not always the same, also mixing ratios vary depending on formulations, so never assume 1:1, always read the literature carefully.

Something else to consider is how to wet out cloth. One method that works very well is to tape down a sheet of poly on a flat table, wet out the precut-to-size cloth on the table and then roll it on to a tube (abs plumbing tube works well). Then you roll it on to the surface you're working on.

If you're doing multiple layers, you have a fairly narrow window (again read everything you can) to add the next layer so that you can have a chemical bond. If you miss that window, you need to sand the surface to remove the amine blush (epoxy) before adding another layer. This is also why (IIRC) that polyester comes in waxed and unwaxed versions. One (can't remember which off the top of my head) is intended as the last layer while the other will remain a bit sticky.

This is a really good read to learn what you need to know http://www.systemthree.com/reslibrary/m_published-literature.asp. I've used mostly West System over the years but have recently switched to System Three. I like both products.

Good luck with the project, keep us posted.

[Okie Boarder]

Get the metered pump tops for your resin and hardener...makes mixing up the batches easier. +1 on chris' suggestion for making a table to wet out the cloth prior to install. I started out trying to lay the sheets dry, then wet them out in place and it was difficult. Wetting them on a flat surface, then installing made ist way easier. My wife helped a lot and that's usually the part she would do, then she would hand me the pieces for installation.

[atlong]

Good info guys thanks!
I'm to the point where I'm about ready to cut the starboard stringers out and start mocking up new ones. I'm just trying to wrap my head around making sure I get plenty of measurements or mock up stringers out of plywood to make sure they are the correct height.
How did yall do this?


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[Jetlink]

Measure off the transom and sketch it out on paper with a rough outline of the boat hull. Measure again off the transom and sketch it out on another piece of paper with a rough outline of the boat. Measure...you get the idea. I think I measured about 8 or 9 times before I cut any of the stringers out. When I went to put everything back in, it all magically lined up just fine.

[Salty87]

Did you keep a lip of floor intact around the perimeter? Unless you've already started grinding there should be something left there. I ran strings across to reference (to periodically check the height, not to trip over all the time).

If you get the stringers out in large pieces they can be good to use for reference also. Really rotten stringers leave little more than fiberglass skins that are a lot lighter than waterlogged wood.