new engine build or buy long block ?

[lively]

hey guys my 351 is wearing , the compression is about 80 across the board and im wanting to see how much HP will these velvets hold ?
what was factory HP on the 351w? im wanting 300-325 @ the crank , what can i do to make this engine more reliable and still have some ass behind the throttle ..

long blocks go for 1k around here with reman stock heads and a diff cam for the boat ..

what this noise about GT40 heads ?

just wanted some insight might bite the bullet in a couple weeks and throw a new power plant in ..


help !! lol

[UKandH]

Factory HP on the standard 351W ranged from early engines circa late 60's to late 70's were about 220 HP to a standard 260 HP in the early 90's boats (most PCM motors). The HO BOSS was the next rated at 285 HP with GT heads, then comes the GT40 engine with FI at 310HP.

A properly rebuilt 351 with very little work will bust about 270hp with a quality manifold and carb set up and a little head work on the valves and inlet / exhaust. GT heads will be your best option and with a bit of decent work will top 295 HP, put a good quality manifold and carb should see 300 HP and globs of torque.

I was building a spare motor for a car project a few years ago which still sits in my garage and was pumping 360 at the crank, a 351W with a ground up rebuild, wiseco pistons, comp cam, solid lifters and roller set up, head work by TTS, larger valves and a GT-P head set. Its still sat in storage as i went down the LS6 route instead, unfortunately i dont think its suitable for marine use as the cam is a fast road/rally style. I was thinking of tearing it down, fitting a more suitable cam, lowering the CR and fitting twin Rotrex superchargers and slapping that in the TS6, now that would be a hoot, it should pump 400-450 HP easy with twin superchargers on regular pump gas.

Anyway back on track, personally i prefer to build engines myself, but crate motors are a great option. A crate short engine and search for a pair of GT-P heads (the hot rod boys change them out as they are hard to change the plugs on in a road car) You should be able to source them easily in the USA. Good quality components, build slowly and double check everything as you tear down and rebuild, dont scrimp and save money. One thing i would do is have the bottom end balanced with the flex plate as well, get the pistons weighed and balanced as well. Shot peen the rods and balance. Once the bottom end is blueprinted it will give a much improved throttle response and be a lot smoother running, rev much quicker and the hole shot will be bang on and a huge grin factor.

Next thing i would do would be to source a new Cam, stay with a stock marine profile, marine cams are unique and are the result of a lot of compromise, unless your going blown / force induction i would stay stock but new. Replace the lifters at the same time and lubricate well with compcam lube when assembling. Also fit new bearings in the block for the cam, get it done professionally and line bored / checked for perfect true, a lot of people screw that part up in rebuilds.

Head work is where a marine engine benefits the most, nearly all 351's have poor gas flow due to design compromises. My advice is to source GT-P heads and sent them away to a specialist for rework, they already have the larger valves fitted but can still benefit with modification in the seat cut. Get the heads CC measured, skimmed and crack tested.

Next is piston choice, most would go for stock CR, and i would tend to agree, but spend some money here and get QUALITY pistons as they will be drop forged and better, lighter weight and higher strength and inherently better balanced from the factory, i like Mahle but Wiseco, JL and many others are great pistons. Get the squish as good as you can for optimum compression and adjust the CC in the head chamber per cylinder so they are all equal, and good engine builder can do that work for you as it means dry fitting the heads and measuring a lot of things, stripping adjusting and refitting again and again but the benefits outweigh the expense.

The thing to remember here is that engine design is always a compromise of cost vs performance, if you build an engine that is not always true.

Last but not least is the top off, the inlet, we cant do much about the exhaust as its a stock PCM block item, but the inlet is seriously flawed as in most ski boats the top of the engine needs a flat profile for the dog house. I have looked at a lot of different options here for my marine rebuilds, and on my TS6 there is a few inches clearance, so an Edelbrock performance inlet would be my choice topped off with a new Holley 4160 or 4150.

A well built and put together motor will not always be full of huge horse power due to marinised cams and exhaust limitations but you can build it to be ultra well balanced, and HUGE torque gains and this is where we notice the difference as its torque that drives us through the water.

Obviously if money is no object then i would fit Rotrex superchargers as they are small and very efficient and as they sit at the side of the block they take no room from the top of the motor housing.

Need any build advice then im always here, and yes, i have built a lot of American V8 engines haha, my current project car is fitted with a LS6 pushing 640 HP and so much invested in it i dare not look at the receipts :)

[crystal waters]

I looked at changing out to GT -40 heads several years ago.
A forum member responded saying i should look seriously at using Dart Heads which are half the price and in fact better performers than the GT - 40 heads.
I never did the work but thought i would throw this notion out to you at this point in time.

[wotan2525]

UKandH sounds like he knows what he's talking about. But what he's describing is going to require you to write a blank-check to your machine shop. These boats are not high-performance machines and don't need to be blueprinted and balanced to the extent that he's describing. Is it better? Absolutely. Will it result in more power and smoother operation? Yes. Will you ever get your money back out of that type of build when you sell? Never, never, never.

If you can buy a longblock with a warranty for $1k, I wouldn't think twice. You'll have twice that into rebuilding yours with mild upgrades (and the minimum in machine work.)

[Cusefan78]

I agree. Go the long block route. You can always sell the crate heads and get gt40 heads. Then I would look for a screaming carb and bigger intake. If that's isn't enough slide the cam out and get a bigger cam. Building your own will never he the cheaper route. I have built a few 5.0 engines and I sware my mouth is bigger then my wallet and you end up going overboard with little return.

[lively]

wow ! lots of insight !! thank you for the responses guys !

what intake ? i have a marine 650 cfm edlebrock carb now .. stock

what about a 97 351 EFI ? i can get them cheap from LKQ or wrecking yard but would still have to possibly rebuild and change cam ..

long block sounds good but i need details on what works for these engines, just any after market heads? what intake to be paired ?

im no engine guru but i have rebuilt a few engines with stock parts "R&R" just never any power adders ....

WOT 3600 35 knots . timing 10 * BTDC.

[UKandH]

The old adage, *there is no substitute for Cubic Inches* holds a lot of water for marine engines.

A crate motor will give you instant gratification and be up and running with a weekends work, going for a new crate big block is a great idea if money is the prime concern.
My personal choice is to build myself (its an engineer's thing) and doing it right is never cheap, and of course, if your intention is to sell it then you will never get the money back. Take my boat as an example, a 93 TS6 and i have just spent over $6k on upgrades to the interior, electronics and other things. Will i ever get that cash back, hell no, of course not. Does it make it a better wake...no, do i get a better grin factor / more pleasure / less stress when driving it? hell yeah. Its all about where you want to spend your dollar my friend.
I get loads of satisfaction building hot rod motors for other people as well as my projects and its all about what floats your boat!

Words of caution here though, throwing a profile cam that is not for marine use will make it undriveable in many respects so use great caution. If your going to build the motor for drag boating, ski racing or high speed work then yes thats fine, but for skiing or tow sports i would choose wisely, talk to Crane Cams or Edelbrock for advice as they produce re-profiled marine cams and they will tell you the same as I...USE CAUTION! Just my 2 cents worth.

Next thing to be careful of is over carbing, there is a lot of misunderstood advice floating about the internet on carb choice. The first things to calculate are RPM, Volumetric efficiency, compression ratio, temperature range, cam profile, flow rates etc.
All of this equates to required volumetric flow through the carb at any given rev range. Most of our marine engines work OK with a 600 cfm carb. Restrictions on rev and torque curve requirements dont call for high flow fuelling. Most 700-750 cfm carbs are designed for high RPM engines, ours peak at 4800ish, so do we need better airflow? the answer is no we dont. Our ultimate goal is TORQUE, nothing else really matters to a boat engine, more torque equates to a bigger prop surface area which equates to speed or pulling power.
The maximum realistic CFM should be a 650 or at a push a 700 in larger CC engines, a 351 is suited with a 650 max CFM, the key to better performance is how that mixes the air fuel ratio and delivers it to the engine at certain RPM. That is the job of the manifold. High rise manifolds are designed for high RPM and maximum direct unrestricted air flow, as the engine increases speed it becomes more efficient, high RPM = fast air delivery, the downside is the low and mid range torque disappears. Engine designers and racers describe this as *bogging down* or poor hole shot. The lower the profile manifold the better the torque delivery (to a point) A good manifold encompasses the firing order mode of the design so that one port is not robbed of air fuel mix by the requirement of another at the same or similar time (port timing) You will see many ideas floating about by Edelbrock, Holley etc, each has its advantage and disadvantages but ultimately look for a manifold that delivers low RPM torque for marine use, this is why the cam profile is so important as this has a direct influence on the carb / manifold choice.

Also remember my point about exhaust efficiency and how poorly designed our marine manifolds are, this also has an impact on your given choices...ther is NO POINT in throwing on a high CFM carb if the exhaust gas speed is low, it will simply create a restriction to gas flow in the heads and combustion chamber. This is in effect a giant pump, air in has to match air out, if one is restricted and creates back pulses and therefore back pressure it just wont work unless we increase one part of the efficiency (or RPM) to gain the flow rate desired.

Right, the next point is that of fitting after market FI to a marine engine, our biggest problem is of closed circuit monitoring, the use of HEGO and UHEGO sensors in the exhaust gas flow to calibrate and monitor the stoichiometric ratio (the ideal fuel air mix)
You need to get the sensors in a dry location in the exhaust gas flow, thats quite a problem in the usual marine header as there is water being introduced down stream of the manifold, any water getting on to the sensor will destroy it in seconds.
Its a problem !! As long as the system is a closed loop monitoring system were completely screwed :( It will take a complete manifold redesign or a bit of innovative modification (something i am currently looking at as a little design project at home)

I hope that helps clear a few things up haha.

[CJD]

It costs more than $1k to rebuild a 351. As with all things, you get what you pay for.

My father gave me an old truck that burned oil faster than gas. To save time, I bought a cheap long block. First block had sticking valves. I removed the engine and took it back. They replaced it for free, but the second engine leaked as much oil as the original burned. Removed the engine for a 3rd time...this engine never ran right. I suspect the cam timing was off.

After putting double the time into engine swapping than I would have put in if I rebuilt it myself...I sold the truck.

The lesson I learned, if they sell you a long block cheaper than the price of the parts it would cost you to do it right...then you will always wonder where they cut the costs. Of course, you will find out shortly!

[Cusefan78]

Yeah a bargain basement long block is not the way to go. Do you're research on the engine companies and make sure they are building engines that last. The 351w that's in our boats is a converted truck motor not one built for a car. Huge difference.

[Cusefan78]

Here you go. Gt40 heads on a long block. 285hp. You can boost that with carbing and intakes http://m.summitracing.com/parts/hme-dma1-gtp.

[lively]

ok so what if i buy a rebuild kit and send the block to machine shop for line hone and new bearings ect .. i want more hp , but i dont want to go over 3k

[lively]

http://www.blainesmotorsupply.com/index.php?content=category&currentpage=4&MID=5&category=engines&manufacturer=Ford

this is the place im talking about

[CJD]

I'm a bit wary. I read through the website, but could not find a list of exactly what they are providing in the rebuild. Just, "High quality", which is rather non-specific.

Here is what I recommend as a minimum for a rebuild...

Crank regrind to nearest undersized and new tri-metal bearing inserts.
Bore block to .030" or .060" oversize. This will raise displacement to 355 or 360 and help torque.
New pistons and rings.
New rod bearing inserts to match crank grind.
Valve job as necessary...may require new valves and guides...possibly seats.
Check block and head for cracks/warpage. Deck if necessary.
New gaskets.

That gets you a fresh engine that will run unbelievably better than one with 80psi compression! I would guess the cost to be at least $2k, including parts and machine work. Now, with the remaining $1k...

Decent camshaft and lifters to match. If you can swing a roller cam, it is well worth the cost. Finally a decent intake manifold. In both cases you want maximize low end torque. Low end Torque is what moves the boat...so don't get bogged Down chasing horsepower, which will leave you with a boat that bogs out of the hole and then comes on above 2k rpm.

Anyway...just an idea. There are a million directions you can take to get there.

[UKandH]

As cruisefan had posted, the Summit Racing engine option looks a good. I use Summit racing a hell of a lot and have nothing but praise for them. Top quality stuff at decent value.

[lively]

so does anyone know what a velvet drive will handle HP wise ?

[UKandH]

I have happily put 400HP through a 1:1 drive with no issues after a year of use, im not sure about the 1:23 drives though.

I would not consider any more than 400 though.

[Wulphie]

so does anyone know what a velvet drive will handle HP wise ?

A lot more than you will safely put in a ski boat.

Keep in mind that offshore boats use them coupled to super speedmaster, arneson surface drives and some kaama drives.

[chris young]

Right out of the velvet drive manual;
71c/10-17 255HP@4200RPM.
72c/10-18 380HP@4200RPM.
73c/10-06 560HP@4200RPM.

I have two variants of the manual on my computer, and neither show a 1.23 as an available ratio, so I'm not sure what that means. I'm pretty sure that I have a 71c on my boat, but I'd have to check to be sure.

[lively]

i have the 71c / 10-17 , i wanna push for 300 - 350 at the crank .. I have been pricing parts / vs long block and it seems building would be the way to go .. and i have some good friends that work at a machine shop so we will see

[TitanTn]

I recently rebuilt my 454. Some of the work included:

- turned crank
- new pistons and connecting rods
- new cam
- new lifters
- new rings, bearings and gaskets
- bored .30 over
- new oil pump
- valve job
- resurfaced heads
- valve guides and seals

I did everything except the machine work and my total cost was about $1,500. It can be done for a reasonable cost, but you have to resist the temptation (and tempting from friends) to go with performance parts. I could have easily spent double that, but I'm happy with the performance of a fresh motor. I'm not pulling 5 skiers or racing anyone. I want an engine I can rely on and that's what was built. As the guy said earlier - it's what floats your boat. Everyone has a slightly different angle on what makes them happy.

[UKandH]

If i was rebuilding to a budget then go to Falcon Performance (falconglobal on ebay) If im rebuilding with quality parts at reasonable price i.e. not Summit racing, then i use Falcon every time. $400 USD for a master rebuild kit which includes:

Cast piston rings
Rod Bearings common sizes available
Main Bearings common sizes available
Cam bearings
Full gasket set
3-piece timing set
Oil pump
Sealed Power OE replacement cast aluminum piston set - most common sizes available
Expansion/freeze plug kit
OE specs replacement camshaft
Lifter set

They will build a kit for you for the PCM application, but that price is about usual for them.

Just my 2 Cents worth :)

[lively]

so what about intake ? ive been lookin at the edlebrock rpm intakes , and possibly heads dart or gt-p ? what are the differences or gains

[UKandH]

The RPM intake is for higher RPM ranges up to about 6500 revs, our engines max out at 4.5 to 5K so the RPM manifold is not the right selection unless your building a drag boat :D
I would go for the Performer or the Performer Air Gap as they are better suited to low down torque gains and better fuel distribution, the Air Gap manifolds also help isolate the hot engine from the carb to help with hot starting. If it were me building this motor then i would be buying the Performer Air Gap as my first choice.
Dart heads are great, but it depends on your budget mate.

Again if it was me it would be Dart and Performer air gap. It may be a good idea to talk to dart and see what manifold they recommend :)

[cadunkle]

I was going to reply to this thread some time ago but been too busy to build an engine on paper. A solid rebuild can be done in the $1500-$3000 range depending on your goals. I haven't built a small block in many years, just a few big blocks, so I'm not up on the latest and greatest and don't know figures like typical chamber size, pistons, etc. off the top of my head.

First step is figure out what heads you're going to run. I wouldn't run stock heads on a small block since aftermarket heads are so cheap. You'll be in $500+ machine work to do guides, cut seats, surface, and whatever else your heads need and they'll still flow like crap. TFS has aluminum assembled ready to run heads starting under $600 and you won't need to port them. I wouldn't waste time or money on stock iron small block heads.

Figure the chamber volume of the heads you will run. This will give you an idea of the piston dome or dish required to get in the ballpark for compression ratio. You'll want in the 9-9.5:1 ratio since I'm assuming this will be a torque build. Determine your cam choice. I suggest something with a longer exhaust duration, don't go crazy with ramp rates since this engine will see sustained high RPM. Comp has a good XE and marine line of cams that may fit the bill. I like Lunati Voodoo line of cams, steep ramps and high lift, but not suitable for this application. Peak power by 5500-6000 RPM, no more or you'll be sacrificing torque and economy.

Once you know what heads you're going to use and have a cam in mind, figure what dish/dome is required for a dynamic compression ratio in the 8-8.5:1 range. Bottom of that range for 87 octane, top for 91. You can push more dynamic compression and get better torque and economy but you may need more octane or a less than optimal timing curve. A ski/wake boat engine is not the place to skirt the line on detonation due to sustained load and noise which may make hearing detonation difficult while tuning.

Run marine head gaskets since you'll have raw water cooling. I see FelPro are .049" compressed thickness. You'll want to select a piston with compression height to get your quench in the .030"-.040" range to avoid detonation and get max power and economy. This would mean .019"-.009" above the deck. You may need to deck the block to accomplish this. Or there may be other suitable head gasket choices. A lot of this will be choosing and compromising on the parts to achieve your goals. Sometimes you compromise a bit with available off the shelf parts or to avoid particularly expensive parts that would get you closer to ideal.

Another thing I'll add is I've cheaped out with hyper pistons in the past and always regretted it. I would do forged if you intend to keep this boat a long time. There is much peace of mind in a rock solid bottom end.

Plenty more to it, but you gotta start with heads/cam/pistons. Do you have any particular power or performance goals for this build? Let me know about heads. I can help with crunching numbers on compression ratio, compression height, piston selection, etc. and if I have flow data for the heads run it through Desktop Dyno.

[lively]

ok so what i want is 300-350 hp with same if not more torque.. im clueless on numbers valve lift , cam profile ect .. let me tell you what i want to do for my budget

send short block out to be line honed and bored over 0.40

new pistons , bearings , cam ?

ebay has full kits for 450$ is this a good idea or should i just trust machine shop ?

balance crank and rotating assy

deck block/ heads

run gt40p cast / aluminum ?

can i pick any aluminum heads ?

edlebrock air gap performer

i already have a 600 cfm edlebrock marine carb

new cir water pump

new fuel pump

paint/ install


i am clueless on what to buy for power , now with that being said i really just want the machine shop to assemble the bottom end , but will i need diff push rods ? for diff heads?

[lively]

oh and mine current 351w is spitting like a lama out the dipstick , lol 20 psi oil pressure at 2k rpm .. i changed to 20w50 to help but really no change ... motor is done and im ready to spend more money !! ha ha .. just bought a new tower and Bimini so that will go on this weekend .. but my budget is gonna be 2500 +/- 300 ..... lol..

[cadunkle]

Why .040" over? Heave you measured taper? Go least oversize required to make it straight and remove any damage. .030" gives you the most options for pistons, sometimes cheaper than other sizes.

I see the $450 ebay kit... I wouldn't touch it without having a list of brand and manufacturers PN of each component. Probably fine for slapping together a stockish low output engine but I wouldn't use it. You're paying for machine work, don't waste that money by saving a few hundred on decent pistons and other parts. To cheap out like that I'd sooner pull it apart and as long as taper wasn't ridiculous just hone it as even as I could and slap new rings and bearings in it.

I'd be tempted to run TFS 170 heads, good flow and reputation from what I read.
tfs-51410002-m61 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-51410002-m61) - $1125

These head gaskets are smallest compressed thickness (.040") I saw at a glance suitable for marine use.
fms-m-6051-cp331 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fms-m-6051-cp331) - $77

These pistons would be my choice at a glance. Forged, suitable 14cc dish for those 61cc TFS chambers to get you .013" in the hole at factory deck height for 9.47:1 compression at .053" quench with those head gaskets. Not excessive, but would be better zero decked for 9.75:1 though that may be pushing compression a bit. I'll have to run dynamic compression with some cams and see where it falls.
srp-149606-8 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/srp-149606-8) - $620

if you want cheaper pistons you could run hyper KB-303. This puts is .023" in the hole for 8.79:1 at .063" quench. not much squeeze and getting close to detonation prone. Zero deck it and you're at 9.22:1, a good ballpark for a marine engine that will be running a mild cam and shouldn't be detonation prone.
kb303-030 (http://www.summitracing.com/parts/uem-kb303-030)

I'll have to run some dynamic compression numbers and plug it in DD, but your goals are reasonable.

[lively]

What I need is a reliable engine with some punch . Give me a full lay out on what you would do short block to heads for 2500$ range . I haven't priced machine work yet but I want the engine to be strong in the lower end and be balanced as possible , I've seen those trick flow heads they are sweet . But are they necessary to obtain 300-350 hp ? I don't want any detonation other than when the spark plug is lit ! Run your numbers and let me know what you come up with .. Probably will pull the engine next week to get started on the tear down . I've been reading up on reviews on MS around town trying to talk to a few for the best work ...

[cadunkle]

Here's more or less the parts for what I would build...

Clevite Engine Parts CB831P - Clevite P-Series Rod Bearings - $55.76
Clevite Engine Parts MS1432P - Clevite P-Series Main Bearings - $52.97
Clevite Engine Parts SH510S - Clevite Camshaft Bearings - $25.97
Fel-Pro 17360 - Fel-Pro Performance Marine Intake Gaskets - $24.97
Fel-Pro VS50068R - Fel-Pro PermaDry Valve Cover Gaskets - $10.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6051-CP331 - Ford Racing Performance Cylinder Head Gaskets - $76.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6710-A351 - Ford Racing Oil Pan Gaskets - $22.97
JE Pistons S100S8-40305 - JE Pistons Pro Seal Premium Sportsman Series Piston Rings - $99.46
Melling IS-83 - Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts - $12.97
Melling M83 - Melling Oil Pumps - $41.97
Sportsman Racing Products 149606-8 - SRP Ford Small Block Dish Top Pistons - $619.68
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51400510 - Trick Flow® Roller Rocker Arms - $289.97
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51410002-M61 - Trick Flow® Twisted Wedge® 170 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Ford - $1,125.00

Part Subtotal $2,459.63

You'll be + $200 for cam and lifters, and about another $100-$200 for pushrods, gaskets, misc bits. Machine work pricing is highly variable depending on region, as well as what your engine needs. $500-$1000 is my guess. So $3500-$4000 to do it with nice heads. Can probably shave about $500 cutting corners on parts, but I would want to build a solid bottom end as top priority as top end is quicker and easier to change is desired.

Anyhow... Some numbers for power and compression with two different cams and zero deck vs .013 in the hole.

Comp XE 262/270 .013" piston to deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE262.270_.013.jpg

Comp XE 262/270 zero deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE262.270_.000.jpg

Comp XE 256/262 .013" piston to deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE256.262_.013.jpg

Comp XE 256/262 zero deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE256.262_.000.jpg

The 262/270 is about as big a cam as I'd go for a towboat with stock manifolds and displacement. Idle will be slightly higher than stock and slightly noticeable but should not be too obnoxious in a 351w. The 35-235-3 XE 4x4 cam is interesting too Sacrifices some top end HP but more HP at lower RPM and slightly flatter torque curve.
Comp has some "marine" grinds there's not split duration. Simple old style cams. The 31-216-2 is a 260/260 and compares to the XE256/270 but leaves at least 10 hp and ft/lbs on the table at all RPM and doesn't have quite the potential when uncorking the exhaust. The 31-218-2 is a 268/268. I'd expect it to maybe have a slightly rougher idle than the XE 262/270 as it has more overlap. HP is similar at peak but less at lower RPM and it's down a bit on torque from the XE split duration cams. Didn't run dynamic numbers on any of those.
Personally I'd be tempted to run the XE 256/262

Note that exhaust is the biggest restriction. I put HP manifolds in as marine pyramid exhaust flow better than logs, but a far cry from a true performance manifold or header. Changing exhaust to headers in DD is 50+ HP more with pretty much any cam.

What heads do you currently have? To get the price tag down under budget the heads are not an option. Heads and associated costs are adding about $1500 to the price tag. Machine work on your heads (cut seats, new guides, new valves if/where needed, surface if needed) I would expect to be in the $500-$700 range. Also figure on +$100 for valve springs for the cam vs the already assembled heads.

Let me know what your head castings are and if I can find flow numbers I can see what they will do. I'll also see about checking GT40 and GT40p heads.

[chris young]

Wow, that's cool, offering all that advice Cadunkle! I'm no where ready to do a rebuild on mine, it seems to be running well enough for now, but I have toyed with doing it in the future. I will definitely bookmark this thread.

[lively]

Here's more or less the parts for what I would build...

Clevite Engine Parts CB831P - Clevite P-Series Rod Bearings - $55.76
Clevite Engine Parts MS1432P - Clevite P-Series Main Bearings - $52.97
Clevite Engine Parts SH510S - Clevite Camshaft Bearings - $25.97
Fel-Pro 17360 - Fel-Pro Performance Marine Intake Gaskets - $24.97
Fel-Pro VS50068R - Fel-Pro PermaDry Valve Cover Gaskets - $10.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6051-CP331 - Ford Racing Performance Cylinder Head Gaskets - $76.97
Ford Performance Racing Parts M-6710-A351 - Ford Racing Oil Pan Gaskets - $22.97
JE Pistons S100S8-40305 - JE Pistons Pro Seal Premium Sportsman Series Piston Rings - $99.46
Melling IS-83 - Melling Heavy-Duty Intermediate Driveshafts - $12.97
Melling M83 - Melling Oil Pumps - $41.97
Sportsman Racing Products 149606-8 - SRP Ford Small Block Dish Top Pistons - $619.68
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51400510 - Trick Flow® Roller Rocker Arms - $289.97
Trick Flow Specialties TFS-51410002-M61 - Trick Flow® Twisted Wedge® 170 Cylinder Heads for Small Block Ford - $1,125.00

Part Subtotal $2,459.63

You'll be + $200 for cam and lifters, and about another $100-$200 for pushrods, gaskets, misc bits. Machine work pricing is highly variable depending on region, as well as what your engine needs. $500-$1000 is my guess. So $3500-$4000 to do it with nice heads. Can probably shave about $500 cutting corners on parts, but I would want to build a solid bottom end as top priority as top end is quicker and easier to change is desired.

Anyhow... Some numbers for power and compression with two different cams and zero deck vs .013 in the hole.

Comp XE 262/270 .013" piston to deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE262.270_.013.jpg

Comp XE 262/270 zero deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE262.270_.000.jpg

Comp XE 256/262 .013" piston to deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE256.262_.013.jpg

Comp XE 256/262 zero deck
http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Misc/Lively351w/Lively351w_TFS170_XE256.262_.000.jpg

The 262/270 is about as big a cam as I'd go for a towboat with stock manifolds and displacement. Idle will be slightly higher than stock and slightly noticeable but should not be too obnoxious in a 351w. The 35-235-3 XE 4x4 cam is interesting too Sacrifices some top end HP but more HP at lower RPM and slightly flatter torque curve.
Comp has some "marine" grinds there's not split duration. Simple old style cams. The 31-216-2 is a 260/260 and compares to the XE256/270 but leaves at least 10 hp and ft/lbs on the table at all RPM and doesn't have quite the potential when uncorking the exhaust. The 31-218-2 is a 268/268. I'd expect it to maybe have a slightly rougher idle than the XE 262/270 as it has more overlap. HP is similar at peak but less at lower RPM and it's down a bit on torque from the XE split duration cams. Didn't run dynamic numbers on any of those.
Personally I'd be tempted to run the XE 256/262

Note that exhaust is the biggest restriction. I put HP manifolds in as marine pyramid exhaust flow better than logs, but a far cry from a true performance manifold or header. Changing exhaust to headers in DD is 50+ HP more with pretty much any cam.

What heads do you currently have? To get the price tag down under budget the heads are not an option. Heads and associated costs are adding about $1500 to the price tag. Machine work on your heads (cut seats, new guides, new valves if/where needed, surface if needed) I would expect to be in the $500-$700 range. Also figure on +$100 for valve springs for the cam vs the already assembled heads.

Let me know what your head castings are and if I can find flow numbers I can see what they will do. I'll also see about checking GT40 and GT40p heads.

Man that's awesome ! I have the stock CAJE or the stock Windsor heads . I was looking at dart heads by a bit pricey . I'm gonna try to stay around the $2500-3000 range . And that will leave room for new 4 blade and coupler and props shaft . I just got done installing the new tower . But I think the engine should be out in the next month . I took it out on the water today and it's idling at 10psi oil press and 45psi @ 2500 . Lol sucks but I'm milking it the most I can . Thank you so much for this info . I defiantly will use it for the final blueprint of the new engine .

[lively]

1641616417

[lively]

Ok , I'm finally ready to bite the bullet , I've been looking at mabbco motors for a short block , I think I will get one from them and install some aftermarket aluminum heads .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160813/f22625653274e947c51870602026bfe7.pngwhat do y'all think of these heads ? I'm thinking of a short block from mabbco motors here in Tyler , Tx .. Trying to make some decisions and order parts , I plan to pair the heads with a edlebrock rpm air gap , 1500 to 6500 rpm intake , and I have the edlebrock marine 650 I believe I'll have to look again either 600 or 650 cfm ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

Those look fast just sitting there. Congrats.

[lively]

Those look fast just sitting there. Congrats.

Thanks man , I'm about to bite the bullet and get a YouTube feed of the install , Livelyprojects is my YouTube account .

But I still have some adjusting to do for shaft and log alignment , and also valve train rollers vs tappet . Those heads look promising and I'm gonna build this engine right . Just need to get the concrete info on what will work cam , push rods , rockers ect .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

I'll be looking for the Youtube Channel.

Good luck on the shaft alignment. At least on my 454 it's a pain in butt. The rear is easy to adjust, but the front is a hassle.

[cadunkle]

Those heads are probably good but you can get better for the money. Scratch the RPM intake unless you actually plan to spin this to 6000+. Not a good idea for a towboat unless you're building it into a barefoot racer. The small Edelbrock isn't the best choice for a screamer either, though would do fine for a lower RPM torque build if you already have it. A cam to support that RPM would need exhaust manifolds that cost as much as your whole engine budget.

What are specs on that short block and what pistons are in it? Piston choice and piston to deck clearance as critical when doing any sort of performance build. If they are cheap builder deep dish pistons you may end up with low compression and put cam, heads, intake, etc. for higher RPM and end up with a very low power engine at any RPM. Everything must be matched to meet your goal. Typically in a wake boat you want a broad flat torque curve, not a peaky screamer that only makes power above 4 grand.

Roller cams are great in a SBF, but I thought there was a budget. The faster ramp rates that are possible can broaden the torque curve and increase peak power. Fewer worries about oil type too. Nice but really a luxury after properly matching everything else. If there's an area to spend a couple hundred more, my first choice would be forged pistons.

[lively]

Those heads are probably good but you can get better for the money. Scratch the RPM intake unless you actually plan to spin this to 6000+. Not a good idea for a towboat unless you're building it into a barefoot racer. The small Edelbrock isn't the best choice for a screamer either, though would do fine for a lower RPM torque build if you already have it. A cam to support that RPM would need exhaust manifolds that cost as much as your whole engine budget.

What are specs on that short block and what pistons are in it? Piston choice and piston to deck clearance as critical when doing any sort of performance build. If they are cheap builder deep dish pistons you may end up with low compression and put cam, heads, intake, etc. for higher RPM and end up with a very low power engine at any RPM. Everything must be matched to meet your goal. Typically in a wake boat you want a broad flat torque curve, not a peaky screamer that only makes power above 4 grand.

Roller cams are great in a SBF, but I thought there was a budget. The faster ramp rates that are possible can broaden the torque curve and increase peak power. Fewer worries about oil type too. Nice but really a luxury after properly matching everything else. If there's an area to spend a couple hundred more, my first choice would be forged pistons.

Ok , so my prob is if I call mabbcco engine where I plan to buy the short block what do I need to tell them ?

They have several options for their short blocks and long blocks , but I want power adders i.e. Intake, heads, and I want a good sounding cam , I guess they call it a "rough idle cam " ? Anyways

What do these 351w come with far as lifters ? Just flat tappets ? I know you gave me a parts list , but it's a bit much for my budget , I've got like 3500 for engine , PSS , shaft , prop . I mean I can always add$$ lol but I'm trying to stick with it.

I want 350 hp and 9000 lbs of torque ! Lol

So short block with GT 40 s ? Or what heads and what can with the short block ?

Here is the link : https://www.mabbcomotors.com/catalog/Marine/Marine_Short_Blocks_-_NO_CORE_REQUIRED_/Ford/MARINE_Ford_351W_5.8_Short_Block_1983-1993_1pc._-_NO_CORE_REQUIRED_-_90_Day_Limited_Warranty/210

They are local for me , and looks like some of the only ones for In stock short blocks . I don't know the specs but if you can list what I need to ask I certainly will .


Thanks for the help ! I'm ready to start another project for the sunsport !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Ok , so I'm gonna go forged Pistons for sure , all these engine builders or mass producing shops have such bad reviews . And lol I don't know who to trust , but for the rotating assy I have made the decision to use forged Pistons , possibly regrind crank and keep the rods unless they need to be changed . Sbfalcon on eBay has a set of 8 Pistons for $350 . And I'm looking toward the performer model of edlebrock for intake . Says 1500-5500 rpm range . .

I have some honey do's to finish with the house and then I'm gonna get the boat out from shed and pull the engine and drive . Look for updates


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

I have some honey do's to finish with the house and then I'm gonna get the boat out from shed and pull the engine and drive . Look for updates



Uhh, you're not giving us a lot of hope that this is happening soon!

[lively]

Uhh, you're not giving us a lot of hope that this is happening soon!

Lol happy wife happy life ! , i'm really working on finding a reparable machine shop that can do a quality work for my short blog or just do all the machine work and I will install the parts , and I just replaced all the facia on my house and I gotta paint it before the winter .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/8d329f607e4cca194e37bbe739eb780d.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/7ccf6ac69df2bf30f76ebc06af07eb4e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/5a61be6af0fa7d425c6743d6ca544476.jpg

This is my current engine , and the shaft log to dog house alignment is shown in two pictures , I measured looking down at shaft log and I'm 11" from left stringer to center and from right stringer I'm 10" . So 1" difference . My question is I need about a 1/4" of movement to be true from strut to shaft log , can I get that from strut and then align by feel or is there a easier way ?? Thanks gents http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/9f96b9fcd41003828316bf38b681cd6e.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20161027/b0d6991a94c2293a374309c3df437575.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

I don't think there's any alignment-ability in the strut (unless it's bent). The strut should put the shaft roughly in the middle of the shaft log and then you align the engine to match. Note: You'll need to support the shaft vertically while doing the engine alignment so it stays in the middle on the shaft log.

[lively]

Ok , so no resistance to keep the shaft center ? It should just rest in the center of shaft log ? Problem is my engine is out of side to side adjustment because of the 1" difference when I laid the stringers . "My fault" . So while I have it out I'm gonna do some glass work to the stringers to make the adjustment .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

It needs to be roughly in the center, but it doesn't have to be exact. It's more important to check the shaft in neutral alignment with the strut. If the shaft is in alignment with the strut, and not touching the side of the shaft log, and you can align the engine to the shaft, then you're golden.

[lively]

It needs to be roughly in the center, but it doesn't have to be exact. It's more important to check the shaft in neutral alignment with the strut. If the shaft is in alignment with the strut, and not touching the side of the shaft log, and you can align the engine to the shaft, then you're golden.

Cool that's what I thought , I'm gonna do that , I'll be pulling it out soon . I'll start the feed then


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chris young]

There is room to move the strut itself (a bit). I did mine for the same reason. I pulled all the bolts and dropped the strut so I could clean the old sealant of out and then re-installed the strut with new sealant with it aligned as best I could to the centre of the shaft log. The holes are a little oversized so you can get I tiny bit of movement. Mine wasn't perfect when it was done, but it did move a bit.

[lively]

There is room to move the strut itself (a bit). I did mine for the same reason. I pulled all the bolts and dropped the strut so I could clean the old sealant of out and then re-installed the strut with new sealant with it aligned as best I could to the centre of the shaft log. The holes are a little oversized so you can get I tiny bit of movement. Mine wasn't perfect when it was done, but it did move a bit.

When you aligned strut to shaft log did you align so the shaft is center or did you have to pick the shaft and put it in center ? Cause if I put mine in center of shaft log now I don t really feel side tension from strut but I wish there was a way to know exact center .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[NorCalPR]

Push the shaft one way, then the other. The middle of the two is center...

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[chris young]

Mine was out enough that I just moved the strut as far as it would go in the correct direction and just lived with that.

[lively]

video feed has started for the rebuild !! please subscribe and comment !! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BTb7_93UQeY

[lively]

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/b3bb6e4012a67a33368cb89601146df0.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/681629814d8274bf059ebffe4125033e.jpghttp://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170109/e67f95f157a06678a460fe7c772654a4.jpg

Ok so I got it tore down , and found 2 Pistons with broke rings , 3 mains wiped with grooves in bearings , and 1 Pistons skirt was cracked down the side !! the block is still at standard bore and looks to be in good shape ,

I'm getting ready to send it to the machine shop to be manafluxed and bored .30 over , I plan to grind crank , line hone mains , deck block .

Installing stock crank , eagle forged rods , hyper or forged positions +.30 , comp cam (grind tbd),
ARP hardware , melling oil pump , flotek heads TBD on cc size , double row timing change and gears , performer intake , maybe a different Dizzy .

I need some help on the right rods , the stock length is 5.965 ? Do I just buy stock rods ?


On cam shaft anybody have any input on a com cam kit ? I want to use hydro rollers .


Help ! Lol

Thanks , lively


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170213/fb05f8629c8b3e209509bb9e74c4b61d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170213/ece0dcc3f6964ca723be56c227148cda.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170213/113089b7af858df827bf9870cd6e94d7.jpg

OK guys I got the block back I opted to get a 94 roller instead of the older flat tappet, so I talked to comp cams and told them that I wanted to use flow tech heads with either the 194 or 202 valve spec ,

They suggested the K35–514–8 extreme energy cam kit . It's listed for 302 but I have to talk to him again about 351 . Anybody ever use the set up or what do you think?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

I can't answer as what components you should be using, but it's looking good. Very clean and I'm sure you're going to be thrilled with the results when it's done. It obviously had some issues that needed attention.

[lively]

Yes , I talked to comp cams again and they said for the heads I want to use that cam kit will work really well , rpm range is 1600- 5600 and I'll be ordering parts soon as I do some more research to make sure it fits the buck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Calling all engine gurus !

So here are my numbers tell me what you think far as my calculations go for compression ratio .

Bore: 4.030
Stroke: 3.5310
Deck: .020
Piston dish: 14.61cc or 20.5cc including deck
Heads "flotek" : 58cc
Head gasket dia: 4.100
Head gasket compressed: .040

Static ratio : 9.66:1
Compression ratio : 9.47:1

I am ready to finish this build and finally got the funds to do so . But I wanna see if anyone has anymore thoughts or suggestions to help aide the nail biting decisions lol !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

ok guys !! pics and videos coming soon i just placed 2 orders in for $4k in parts !!

*flo-tek 58cc heads assy

*comp cams XEK35-514-8 cam kit

* 1.6 rockers

* edlebrock performer intake

* ARP bolts / studs

*oil pan

*Harmonic balancer

*ACME 541 3 blade

*PSS shaft seal

*shaft coupling

*48" A-19 SS shaft "fit and faced with coupler"


* and a bunch of engine dress up


I think i am gonna have to use header spacers cause the valve covers on 94 roller 351w seem tall due to roller cam and valve train im assuming , but im stoked !! and can wait to share the finishing of the build .. bunch of money on and old boat , but hey my kids will enjoy it in a few years so what the heck !! cheers !

[TitanTn]

Wow! You're all in! That's going to be a heck of a motor. Look forward to seeing the video of it running.

Congrats!

[lively]

Wow! You're all in! That's going to be a heck of a motor. Look forward to seeing the video of it running.

Congrats!

Thanks titantn I spent a little extra cause it's gonna make it all work well together and with reassembly it's great to have fresh parts .

I got compression numbers of 9.6:1 so I'm ready to get the old babe out of the shed and show her some love .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/563a67783de79ad96cfab9bc598cf22f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/83d80c3ab0d2b8745ac7cd74a6015c34.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/0060bd5d733ee47a58146891116f523f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/194e37a189721aaf39271e61982b0489.jpg. Got some stuff in today ! I'll do a video once it all get here and take some of the assembly ect , waiting on the cam kit


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/2816132e1bea9096044c3d8d6f505594.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170224/d778e0ce75c57c16bef7da68df5ccfe5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

That's almost too pretty to use! Gonna have it all together by Sunday night? ;)

[lively]

That's almost too pretty to use! Gonna have it all together by Sunday night? ;)

Ha ha ! I wish ! Heads are super light , and they look real good for budget heads . Waiting on some Ceramic paint and the cam kit . Should have it going soon .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/7795cfb53738ee009659211de8207641.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/0f0e2424b06c7168e20db2545923d9fd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/6510d438e95566f86b97f7cfcdf87049.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/23ca55c942e5a0fae97c377d85b14df5.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/900c43c0485bb586742fa4f8f91f8bf0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/892c19f1e6041ef3b0ffb493d7ee78df.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170302/b95a10f00ab05375764bf51eb543e15e.jpggot the block painted , gotta prep the accessories and shoot them tomorrow , cam kit came in as well , should have everything besides push rods and HEI dizzy . Getting close !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Ok guys I ran into a couple problems with the heads , valve springs for the flotek heads installed height was all over the place ! I'll post a pic with my specs , problem is comp came wants 1.800 installed height on their valve springs , and I don't have no where close to that with out .100 worth of shims ! Lol no one got time for that !

So I found that 950-16 springs will work with the kit verified with comp and they have a 1.900 installed height ! So waiting on the vendor to swap out the springs , I painted all the accessories and anything that I want looking decent . Here are some pics of what I got . https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/df2498303b45276eab430625058d7240.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/3be55523e3d4bd7f1921154ed0879641.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/0632f45c238a509df318cdfba0694128.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/3f37fc83ced728370249d968f23166e1.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170306/5d86c471abbbaec66ba5845f396d4b6a.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/f07a234a47fa9efdd6136551328dbc10.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/a73746d2834c01dfcc7fe662b5c95b86.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170311/208baac5ac302e5fcbef1e6392afab06.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

Looking good so far. Is that the right size oil pan? It may be completely different on your boat, but with my 454 and Saltare, I only have about 1/4 inch clearance under the oil pan.

[lively]

Looking good so far. Is that the right size oil pan? It may be completely different on your boat, but with my 454 and Saltare, I only have about 1/4 inch clearance under the oil pan.

I'm glad you pointed that out . Rear sump may not work , lol wow . The original is middle sump , so I'll look at my pictures and see .

Lol thanks man


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170312/f3d6eacd54480c93d801756b17dc3c8a.jpg


Titan ! Dude thanks for the heads up on that , I found some pics in my old album and you are correct ! Lol what fun that would be to stick the engine in later to find out the pan was to tall . I owe you a beer sir .

I have been at that old pan all morning with DA and wire wheel . Just got first coat laid and then I'll be on to the 2nd and final .

Should have known better [emoji35][emoji23]oh well
. I won't be pushed down when I got the right tools !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

No problem - glad to help. That's why we have these forums, so people can share and learn. Because of your pics and thread, someone later will learn a lot about engine rebuilding and will also be reminded to consider the oil pan depth. Looking forward to seeing the final build.

[wotan2525]

I'd be sure you're also taking the time to source and install a remote oil drain.

[lively]

I'd be sure you're also taking the time to source and install a remote oil drain.

You bet , I had one in this pan , so I'll just add a new hose and stop


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/45646204f88367386a80d182636d6721.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/3cf87b3fb234c4054b4de2846cab6042.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/e95983c87bc910ead023b7e562a9b535.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/cc8b3305a4d900f3b16368ea00d238a9.jpgGetting the pulley alignment straight , cleaned out the roll cart finally and got that silly oil pan buttoned up .

Waiting on my valve guide arbor and seat cutter to arrive so I can finally put the heads to rest , I have to machine down the valve guide bosses to fit for comps dual springs . My local machine shop didn't have the .560 cutter I was needing . So I just looked up comp and they had the right cutter and all arbor ! Imagine that ! Lol they should just sell it with the kit . Would make it a whole lot easier .

But , I have got all the shaft , PSS , coupler , new hoses , acme 541 to finish it out . I bet this power plant should really change things up for this old boat . But I'm really just ready to drink a beer and feel some sand with the kids !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170317/89c4a041e4ea887411c0883f1c197894.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cooose]

Looking really good.... won't be long now!!

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/717fd8fc32aa6f50ef7c4a60f6ddf1c6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/0b0c09211d931717a9238916c7860242.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170328/d10f6879f3129c4655926f13f317aeb4.jpg

Got the new cutlass bearings in and re aligned the strut to shaft log . I used a 1" hose and split it to center the shaft into the shaft log while tightening it up . I used 3 washers as shims in the back to tilt it up . But later found that the shaft wanted a little movement to rest and not tighten up if the engine were to settle down in the mounts .

The hose trick really worked great and the new shaft lined up perfect !

Heads are still not ready , had to buy a height micrometer to set valve spring height , I was using calipers and it was making my second guess my work .

I also bought DUI dizzy from performance distributors and some live wires , but comp cams dizzy gear they sent us wrong so waiting on mail now . But man I'm so ready to hear this thing !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Ok I got the heads dialed in all within
.020 of 1.900 installed height on the springs , no coil bind and seal to retainer is .200 so I bolted the heads up and installed the roller lifters and spider hold down bracket with dog bones , rockers should be here Monday to check for push rod length and then order push rods , I also decided to buy a new rudder assy because mine is worn past and is leaking , so more to come on that and I listed in another thread if you would like to follow ,

Here are some pics of what is going to look like and progress ! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/f146d6f0888a52066059fbba5c36a2b6.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/9462abfd6a3beaaac192a38f4643aae4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/0e422ddd2df00f68a685451bcf2ceb9d.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/362839b4a72cb9f8eb03be07e852e61d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/a22550e346c9a602ece31d9e1ac8ddbe.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/cb49bc092eadbaf5f7945bb85b6585f7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/d059f77119afdd21ba131c24a8556f41.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/6285e0d756ba7058adfdf684de8cd069.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/77c4941689cb53dc5dda4c121953cb0f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/c704ce91792ea7fe984c3af64650486c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/8484ac557ee351b0f92aff573f574d71.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170402/8f6ef5d9c405e6250ccc5d5c3a81becf.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Ok , setting up heads is a real art form , I have been setting up rocker arm geometry and found the valves that came with these heads are to long , that causing my sweep
Pattern on valve tip to be wrong . .050 thou in middle of tip is what I'm shooting for . So I'm waiting on valves to. Come in then I can finally assemble .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

I'm glad you're finding this out in advance. Once this get puts together you'll need to post a video so we can hear it run.

[lively]

I'm glad you're finding this out in advance. Once this get puts together you'll need to post a video so we can hear it run.

Believe me brother I've been itching to hear it . But I gotta follow the order by the book so I know it's right . And the engine alignment shouldn't be as bad as I thought . So maybe next weekend will see


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Progress ! I finally figured out the push rod length and getting the wear pattern,

Anybody that is thinking of getting flotek heads , think twice ! I have been at this BS for 1 month , they even sent me different valves ! My problem was the valve centerline to sweep on valve tip was way off cause the rockers I was using ! So finally they only will accept full trunion roller rockers , nothing else . Speedway motors hooked me up but they are not cheap ! $300 . Also I got the dizzy in today and the AN fuel lines , ordered my 7.500 push rods for .060 sweep and I'm gonna push to have this thing started next weekend and possibly put it in the boat ! https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/243272d324dcc3207d25ddb36b86b094.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/a8431f119e2fbe845851e2345b999c16.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/0696715ccc8887a295b6566c4f4cb95b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170415/b4a06b7a1615dd532bbf44e797f859c3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/92e3153389f6d239b0613952fc7b3e7e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/e307338587dee2d932c0fba42c3581bf.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/c685b20640a83db18f9d52a04e8328af.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/29e74dbb692b0c83447512cc2ac6f54b.jpg

Got the push rods in and set all the rockers up , should be able to start it up this weekend . I'll post a video and pics for progress !!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170420/508e8225444401d302f4c7f2f3d7f8bd.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

Wow. This is going to be too pretty to run! Are you going to dyne this before it goes back in?

[lively]

Wow. This is going to be too pretty to run! Are you going to dyne this before it goes back in?

No , I wish , my numbers are pretty spot on , I CC'ed the heads piston dish and the .020 in the hole and ran a simple CPU test online , entered all the numbers and should be close to that . But for I had one local I might . Just don't have a lot more time left . https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/dd1b65df24fb6a149f3c6a6b4c0b75f4.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/d0fbfafceae582bd47be692b12d31e1b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/3d448f66014414862b8903be54d6ab84.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/b9167e61fcd764a468b3bf9ce77151a7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/8a17413e2eec97a24241756378c9393c.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/1ff9a3306d2fcf0622923080d39b1296.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/2f2295806f2d62909b3f480d14842e2e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/a8e6a55f548dc0d7127b0d941dee1a95.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170421/a52b2f11377d5bec8f47909d51a65cba.jpg

I think I'm in love ! Lol


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/8b1546d277c7ad1f7262c9886c5ed323.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/8f73e8f2bbbce4fe3d26a76387fcbbad.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/3e80dd9cde274b794f9a7714c8edf188.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/d6d3351d1a4a49fcdaf574024ead8bd3.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/162614afdc7d50ed9aefc01cf20d949e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170422/42618946231d443d252f890f8ccc9977.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

She's running boys !!! Started right up at 12 degrees . https://youtu.be/8Yn1NYczGPM

J


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TitanTn]

She's running boys !!! Started right up at 12 degrees . https://youtu.be/8Yn1NYczGPM


Awesome! You haven't made any adjustments and she looks like she's purring real smooth. Congrats on a job well done. You'll have everything ready to go for the Southern Supra Reunion this summer! :rolleyes:

[lively]

Awesome! You haven't made any adjustments and she looks like she's purring real smooth. Congrats on a job well done. You'll have everything ready to go for the Southern Supra Reunion this summer! :rolleyes:

Thanks man , I wish !! But I did manage to get it timed at 12 * that's what performance distributor told me to set it at . And it's runs good !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kvand347]

She's running! Beautiful sound! A little early right now, but the next beer is a cheers to you! ;)

[lively]

She's running! Beautiful sound! A little early right now, but the next beer is a cheers to you! ;)

Thanks man ! I revved it up and it sounds great , was hoping for alittle bit more of a lobe , but I'm really happy the way it turned out , and 45 psi oil pressure all the way to 60 .. lake test next weekend


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kvand347]

I like the way she purred. What are you doing to break it in? You went roller cam right? If so, you don't need to worry about adding zinc, but you should still work it through all rpms and multiple oil changes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[lively]

I like the way she purred. What are you doing to break it in? You went roller cam right? If so, you don't need to worry about adding zinc, but you should still work it through all rpms and multiple oil changes.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Yes , valve train comp cams says to bring it all up to operating temp and then back down to ambient temp . The roller cam only needs oil and the I'm running 5w30 conventional oil from oriellys , it's good clean oil and I'll change it after the first 5 hours to see what's going on through a coffee filter . I'm gonna break it in under power loads , my opinion the piston rings are worn in under loaded conditions and the compression is what sends the rings outward to seal things up for a reliable engine . Since I have full roller rockers I may have to adjust lash but this is my first roller build and I've dialed everything in from springs to valves , compression ratio , porting . So she should run in pretty well .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/57ebc21f8260c340f2e88365e0ac0df0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/23160a5f6177d524c7b371565dfc6afd.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/00e17f6de129557079386d31f78a1d94.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170423/a99410bb17227f0e6a28d55b1faf80ae.jpg

Got the rudder back , and I did a little bilge maintenance ! Lol should look nice and neat in there .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[kvand347]

Sounds right to me. Those 5 hours will seem like 100! Once broken in, are you switching to synthetic?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

[Zkdk3000]

Wow that's a beautiful motor!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Sounds right to me. Those 5 hours will seem like 100! Once broken in, are you switching to synthetic?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Tapatalk

Idk yet , I'm kinda on the fence , trying to decide on possibly using amsoil or royal purple . But there's still time to decide . Just need to read some reviews ect


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

Wow that's a beautiful motor!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thanks man ! She's got a lot in her but I'm loving every minute


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SquamInboards]

That really sets the bar, man. Nice job. Better than new in all the right ways.

Well done.

[lively]

That really sets the bar, man. Nice job. Better than new in all the right ways.

Well done.

Thanks man ! Once I started the tear down the old engine I decided that I really wanted something that was reliable but also gave that musclecar vintage feel, I spent about 5k including the shaft prop and engine . But I'm happy with it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SquamInboards]

That's perfect. I spent $2,500 just at the machine shop rebuilding my GT-40. People spend $5k all the time just getting a worn-out engine back to factory spec! And a crate motor would have been more money with less satisfaction, for sure.

[lively]

Yeah I got the rotating assembly at a local machine shop and then I just ordered the head and the valvetrain and pretty much paid it everything else but I later on how to buy new prop shaft seal new rudder , and all the engine dress-up stuff, but all in all man I'm I really do like it and I've had fun building it


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cooose]

Lively, getting a chance to catch up....it was nice to hear it running!!

[lively]

Lively, getting a chance to catch up....it was nice to hear it running!!

Thanks man ! I'll be installing tomorrow and I'll record another video of it in the boat ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://youtu.be/fc8jHsTfS0I

She's in and running ! But I found some blue smoke coming from the tail pipes . Did a little diag with propane and in the valve cover .

I found 3 valve seals lifted , These are PFTE seals . So I'm going to change all the valve seals to viton metal body seals . The ones that comp sent me are like a hard plastic and very brittle 503-16 part number . But I'll have that done this week and I'll splash down sat at the local lake for some piston ring sealing time !! WOT - Idle ... "repeat"


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170506/0cc49be2315bcc63666ac8ec0926ce50.jpg. Lake test day !! I tore the entire top end off due to valve seal leakage , replaced with viton metal case seals and they are not coming off , started up and timed to 12* , will see if she wants more timing . But I'm ready to see how she feels ! Wish me luck !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cooose]

Good luck!! When you get back, any chance you can post up a pick of your dash?

[Zkdk3000]

How'd it go??

Zk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cooose]

Lively - with your engine build did you replace the manifolds and risers? Mine are original to the boat from 88 so I'm leaning toward changing them out since 1) I don't know the history of the boat, 2) the engine was DOA, and 3) from what I've read I'm not coming up with any conclusive way of testing them.

[lively]

Lively - with your engine build did you replace the manifolds and risers? Mine are original to the boat from 88 so I'm leaning toward changing them out since 1) I don't know the history of the boat, 2) the engine was DOA, and 3) from what I've read I'm not coming up with any conclusive way of testing them.

My original ones from 6 years ago were cracked , and were leaking , no easy way to test , but if they look like hell and rusted on the outside I would look into some new ones . I paid like $600 for the set


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lively]

How'd it go??

Zk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Went really good ! 50 mph at WOT and maintained good oil pressure . Acme 541 prop was amazing !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zkdk3000]

Went really good ! 50 mph at WOT and maintained good oil pressure . Acme 541 prop was amazing !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm so jealous! Good for you man, glad it worked out. I love my 541 too great prop.

Zk


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cooose]

So pumped for you lively, definitely a good intro for the summer.

[lively]

Thanks guys , it's been stressful but if I did it again I would have choose AFR or DART heads . For lack of experience it really made me learn what's what . Thanks for the kudos guys !


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk