Holly Carb Identification

[LCYrace]

Can someone help me here. I'm done fighting with this Edlebrock 1410. I have the old Holley that was on the boat when I bought it but removed it cause of the leaking secondaries problem. I needed to get on the water quick so I bought the Eddy but its been trouble ever since. I think it is a 4150 600cfm but somebody ground off the numbers for some dumb reason so I'm not too sure which one it is. It has externally adjustable floats but looks like a marine carb since it has the down turned tubes. Also has a fuel inlet for a rubber hose and not the original compression fitting like on most 4160 marine carbs. Please don't flame me as I got it this way and I plan to put on a braided line with banjo fitting as soon as I get bugs worked out. I need to make sure I get the correct rebuild kit. Thanks in advance for your time!

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[CJD]

Black paint...that implies an old Mercruiser part.

For that engine you want a 600cfm with vacuum secondary's. The power valve needs to be on the higher side...like 9.5 or higher. To get the power valve right, measure the vacuum at idle with the current carb, and use one just higher than your reading. So if it's 8 psi, go for the 9.5.

It looks like an electric choke. If it has wires going into it, then it is and that's what you need.

[LCYrace]

Yes it has electric choke. Not sure if the paint is original or added by whomever put it on this engine. The finish isn't very durable and gas actually will remove the paint very easy. I figured a factory paint job might be more durable. So I guess you have no idea what model this is? It seems to run the boat well I just need a rebuild kit to solve the leaky secondaries issue.

[CJD]

No, sorry but I don't. Holleys used to be as good as it gets. They are now downsized so much, with so many models crossed into a smaller number of generics...that I have not kept up. If it is over 10 years old you are unlikely to find the same model.

You can rebuild that one, as pretty much all the seals, gaskets, and valves are interchangeable. That's the route I would go.

[jasun]

what issue are you having with the Eldelbrock?

[LCYrace]

Oh boy, where do I start. After a year of chasing settings I figured out that the Eddy carbs don't like over 5-6psi of fuel pressure. So if I don't want to spend more money on a pressure regulator and build a whole new set of braided hoses I have to set the float level so low that due to the tilt of the motor and the fact that the float valve is at the back of the carb now my accelerator pump does not have enough fuel to squirt correctly. I think if the carb were level and I had lower fuel pressure (I have 9.5psi) the Eddy would work ok. I think my application is better suited to vaccum secondaries though as the mechanical secondaries seem to allow a little too much flow when pulling up a skier. I can't "floor" it but have to feather the throttle and then once the revs come up I can hammer down. Being a 750 might have a little to do with it but I'm not sure about that. Overall the carb works ok cause I figure if it weren't then the boat wouldn't run 44mph. I am just sick of the constant fiddling with the needles, stalling while idling waiting for my skier-boarder (secondaries drip once the carb is hot), and hard starting (pretty sure dripping secondaries are flooding engine after shut down). Sorry for the rant I just want a carb to work right!

[jasun]

I hear you. I changed from my Holly to the Edelbrock for the same reasons. I know some have put in angled spacers to level the carbs but I have had no issues. with the Eldelbrock. The Thing I didn't like about the Holly was I had to remove the bowls to adjust the floats. I have not see any Holly Marine carbs that have the external adjustment on them (not to say the don't exist).

I would wonder if having the High CFM carb isn't causing some of your issues. I have a 750 on my 454 and some might even say that that is too big. If you can ID the Holly and it is a 600 or 650, I would try it. I looked on their website and tried to compare the pics on there to your pics but could not find any Marine carbs with the screw plugs on the top. All the ones I saw had non removable plugs.

Good luck to you though!!

[LCYrace]

I'm with you Jasun. I've been serching for a few days and have yet to find a match. Looks like I have some sort of Frankencarb. I believe it is a 4160 600cfm but somebody over the years replaced the bowls with the externally adjustable sort. Or maybe its a automotive version and someone added the bowl vent tubes. I am going to pull it off tonight and measure the bores to verify it is a 600 and there is supposed to be some numbers on the primary butterflies which should help with the identity crisis. Either way its going to the pond Sunday for a proper flogging!!!!!

[CJD]

9.5 psi is too much pressure for even a Holley. You want to drop that to 7 psi max or the pressure will overcome the float valves. An inlet regulator is a very worthwhile investment. That way you can run decent pressure to the regulator, which knocks it down. That way you always have plenty of pressure to fill the bowls when you punch it, but not so much as to overfill the bowls.

750cfm is for a big block. Bogging is confirmation that you have too much carb for a mild 351ci. Engine.

The edelbrock is a decent carb. In most part throttle situations it is even better at metering fuel than a Holley. The only advantage of a Holley is that it is infinitely adjustable for highly modified engines. It doesn't sound like your engine is highly modified.

I guess I am trying to say (again)... You need a 600 cfm Holley with vacuum secondaries and an electric choke. Your engine would be happier going down to a tiny 450 cfm...but will always run like crap if you put over 700 on it.

You are on the right track with a levelling plate. No carb will work right if the bowls are tilted...especially a Holley in which each bowl fills 180 out, so one float is high and the other low. The edelbrock central float may have an advantage at a tilt to the Holley.

[LCYrace]

CJD I am not arguing the fact that a 600 Holley is the better choice. That is what I have and it is on the engine. I need to identify the carb in my first post to find the correct rebuild kit. I had a spare old fuel pump lying around so I thought I'd slap it on and see what pressure it makes. Solid 8psi. This is the original 30 year old Carter fuel pump. I bet it worked fine when the boat was new so would I really need to regulate it 30 years later if I now have a close to original carb on the boat?

[crystal waters]

Have an 89 conbrio. Two years ago swapped out my holley 4010 for a 4060.
Suspect yours is a 4010 model which is the marine version of the 4011.
650 cfm
The 4060 swap has worked great except floats do not have external adjustment.
If at all possible recommend rebuilding your existing carb by a professional carb shop.
Good luck

[cadunkle]

This kit should have everything you need: http://www.summitracing.com/parts/hly-37-119

That carb is great for a stock 351w. Lucky that you have a carb with externally adjustable floats. Nice to have on a marine engine which typically sits at an angle. If secondaries were dripping your secondary float height was too high or your needle and seat were not sealing. That would absolutely cause a hard start (flooded) condition and other slow speed issues.

600 CFM is finea good match for a stock marine 351w. 650 CFM would be fine as well. More than 700 would be pushing it. 750-800 CFM carbs are fine for big blocks but will result is less than ideal performance and throttle response on a small block. Stumble from low RPM when rapidly opening throttle is insufficient accelerator pump shot. With that 750 you needed a larger accelerator pump shot to eliminate that and/or adjustment of the secondary air valve which enriches the secondary mixture as they open like a choke does.

I would rebuild and run that Holley you have. Be sure to check the base plate and throttle shafts for wear. That will create a vacuum leak and result in low RPM issues such as inconsistent idle and mixture, possibly hard starting.

[crystal waters]

Great advice CADUNKLE !

[CJD]

CJD I am not arguing the fact that a 600 Holley is the better choice. That is what I have and it is on the engine. I need to identify the carb in my first post to find the correct rebuild kit. I had a spare old fuel pump lying around so I thought I'd slap it on and see what pressure it makes. Solid 8psi. This is the original 30 year old Carter fuel pump. I bet it worked fine when the boat was new so would I really need to regulate it 30 years later if I now have a close to original carb on the boat?

Maybe I wasn't clear...the holley parts are interchangable and available over the counter. The carb comes apart in a matter of 5 minutes, and you can take the gaskets to any speed shop to get replacements. Same for the vacuum diaphram, power valve, o-rings, float valves. It's a modular design, and it only had 2 basic variations throughout it's production. I have never had the model number to rebuild a Holley. It's either mechanical secondary double pumper...or like yours, vacuum secondaries.

As for the pressure question. At 9.5 psi I would expect the float bowls to overfill, as the pressure is higher than the valve is designed to meter. The vents will dump fuel into the bores, causing starting and low speed problems. 6-7psi is desired. At 8 psi the bowls will fill a bit more than desired, so you may have to set the float levels a bit lower than spec...or you may get fuel dripping out of your jets and have a rich idle and starting issues...like flooding. If the float levels are set the same, but your Holley is not level, then one bowl will overfill and leak, and the other will underfill. At WOT some cylinders will be rich, while others will be lean. You can try to use different settings, but levelling the carb is the better option.

[cadunkle]

Leveling the carb as much as possible does help. I recommend a phenolic wedge spacer if you don't have a wedge spacer already. Phenolic will help prevent heat soak which can result in vapor lock or dripping after shutdown.

[LCYrace]

Thanks for all the replies. It is definitely a 4160 of some description. I pulled the carb and measured the bores and all were ~1.56 inches. I went out yesterday with the wife and kids so I didn't get a chance to test WOT but I did pull the tube a few times and a wake-board. I did notice much improved idle over the Eddy and no problems with the boat rocking and dying. I did have some stumble when pulling up the wake-boarder. I couldn't go from idle to full throttle quickly without quite a bit of hesitation. If I was running 1000-1200 rpm it would take full throttle fine. I will get the recommended rebuild kit and try to find a wedge spacer. I am out of room height wise and with the current 1" phenolic spacer I had to create for the PCV vacuum I cannot add a wedge. Unless there is a way to modify the carb itself for the PCV vacuum a wedge is out of the question. I do have the float level set pretty low in the rear bowl so I wouldn't have the drippy secondary syndrome so that may be the stumbling issue. I hope I can get a wedge to work as I think it may have a lot to do with the hole-shot issues. We do ski a lot and the stumbling is annoying when you are the one getting dragged and the boat wont go.

[cadunkle]

To fix the stumble going from idle to seignificant throttle you need to to try different accelerator pump cams to get more shot earlier on, or a larger discharge nozzle. Check the accelerator pump shot with engine off and working the throttle or pump. It should be a crisp stream down both primary bores. May be a plugged passage or nozzle restricting or delaying the shot, or not allowing a clean stream right on the boosters.

[CJD]

That's a very thick block for your PCV. There is likely an allen plug on the manifold directly under the carb to install a vacuum tap for your PCV. If not, any machine shop can angle mill the plate to be at the angle you need.

The manifold you have is more a short runner design for high RPM, so it may be difficult to get it to hit off idle. These manifolds tend to "come on" like a switch at about 2-2500 rpm. The 2 things you have to adjust it for a better low end hit are the primary side accel pump shot, like Cadunkle mentions, and then you can also tighten the loading on the secondary vacuum servo to come in slower.

Before you rebuild, it is very important to find out what your vacuum is at idle in gear. You have to match the power valve to open just above that vacuum. The wrong power valve opening can frustrate you and cause bogging/hesitation if it is opening early or late.

The beauty of a Holley is that everything is adjustable.