trailer vs. prop

[BOWZ]

Well hey guys, back story, wife just finally started getting comfortable pulling the boat onto the trailer, Last Monday it got a little squirley coming in, she must have turned the steering wheel and when she goosed it, missed the boat buddy, by the time I made it to the back of the truck, engine killed itself and the boat was about 8-10" further fwd and to the right of the boat buddy. Didn't try and restart it, just backed the trailer further in the water set the boat where it should be on the trailer and got off the ramp.

It got the prop pretty good but salvageable, its in the shop getting straightened. Did run outs between the thru hull and strut and then after the strut on the taper, .003 off. Sounds good to me! Strut looked straight up and down. I did however notice that the spacing on the through hull was not even all the way around, hardly any gap on the top side, also on my cutless bearing it appears to be pushing harder on the top front side to. I find it hard to believe this is from bumping the trailer but all the same is something I need to attend to.

Second summer owning the boat, bought with 340 hrs, have put 120ish on it since then and I have never done the alignment. I have watched youtube videos, read alot of threads.

https://youtu.be/3_w0LvD6gEc

https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?2322-alignment-procedure&highlight=alignment%20procedure

These are the two most helpful links. Was planing on doing a rough alignment then dropping the boat in the water (floating on its own) but leaving it hooked up to the trailer for a final.

Does anyone have any special advice? Wish it wasn't in the middle of boating season!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/4FC30A8A-FC0F-4FDB-A8DD-D023F6D66BCE.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/4FC30A8A-FC0F-4FDB-A8DD-D023F6D66BCE.jpg.html)
sad days for the stock prop!

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/FAB59EB3-4752-47E4-9160-4E28BA8E7AAD.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/FAB59EB3-4752-47E4-9160-4E28BA8E7AAD.jpg.html)
Pretty bad huh?

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/705AAF9F-0E19-4C4B-B0F7-09292CAD1298.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/03%20SUPRA%20SSV/705AAF9F-0E19-4C4B-B0F7-09292CAD1298.jpg.html)
Look what the wife got for my Bday yesterday!!! Acme 1433.....

Bowz

[suprasaltareaud]

Just wondering if your rear engine mounts are still secure and in position? The force of the spinning prop hitting hard enough to stall engine would be a heap of load/force.

[BOWZ]

Yeah buddy, I agree with you! She said she was pulling back on the lever when it killed it, wishfull thinking would make that less than 1000.

Quick update, pulled the couplings apart, had .016 gap on the top. Side to side was good.

Two new things I did find (thanks suprasaltareaud) front trans lag bolts were loose (1/2-3/4 of a turn on all) rears were good and the trough hull has been robing on the shaft.

The first (lag bolts), what shoddy craftsmanship, 1/2 of the lags were not even put in straight. The way they are leaning I feel confident that is how they were installed.

The second is the wear on the thru hull fitting isn't new, guess I missed it in the manual that it is a yearly inspection. The coupling still feels solid so hopefully I caught it in time and didn't kill the v-drive bearings. Thanks for the help and great threads on this forum.


Bowz

[CJD]

You probably know, but from what you are showing the engine needs to come down on all 4 first, to get the shaft centered. Then align the coupling by angling or tilting the motor/tranny as necessary.

[suprasaltareaud]

No problem. It's sounds like it has been incorrectly adjusted in the past. If it is hitting the top of thru hull hole then either raise front of engine a little or drop the rear. Not a big job to drop rear slightly. That should give you thru hull centred better. Make sure your shaft packing seal is OK.

I would think the gearbox will be OK if it wasn't at huge revs. I hope so anyway. It wasn't too bad rebuilding clutch in gearbox when I did it. Had to lift engine a little though so I could separate gearbox. Good luck.

[BOWZ]

You probably know, but from what you are showing the engine needs to come down on all 4 first, to get the shaft centered. Then align the coupling by angling or tilting the motor/tranny as necessary.


CJD, I was thinking the same thing, but got caught up when I pulled the shaft free from the coupling, it settled down aprox 1/8" @ thru hull, but not centered. I know the main goal is centered in the strut bearing and faced to the v-drive coupling, everything else should fall in place. If not then the strut has been bent. But I have only seen them bend right to left and/or twist. Never just a perfect up/down. I think there is just to much support for it to bend that way. Just thinking out loud....



No problem. It's sounds like it has been incorrectly adjusted in the past. If it is hitting the top of thru hull hole then either raise front of engine a little or drop the rear. Not a big job to drop rear slightly. That should give you thru hull centred better. Make sure your shaft packing seal is OK.

I would think the gearbox will be OK if it wasn't at huge revs. I hope so anyway. It wasn't too bad rebuilding clutch in gearbox when I did it. Had to lift engine a little though so I could separate gearbox. Good luck.

I am thinking that if I lower the rear to get the correct face to face , it might get me where I want to be with the thru hull. If not I will have to lower the front some. Who knows though.

I have high hopes the the eng/trans/gear box after the hit. If it was a diesel then I might be worried. One day it might be.....


Bowz

[BOWZ]

Well got her down to .002" @12&6 and <.001@ 3&9. tomorrow morning gunna float her and do the final face to face.

On a side note, not one of my jam nuts were tight on the mounts. I would say thats why I am so far out of alignment but... the engine wouldn't raise itself on its own, so if anything the last person to do this was even further off. Guess I learned my lesson not to trust the dealership Techs. So far I went down 1 full turn on the front mounts and 2.5 turns down on the rears. The through hull fitting has plenty of space all around it, the shaft turns so much easier. I have just a hint of play in the strut bearing, I think I will be good for the rest of summer and make that a winter project. I will just keep on eye on it to see if it gets worse or I get a vibration. What do you guys think?


Bowz

[suprasaltareaud]

Much better. I think or fingers crossed it won't vibrate. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Does it run and go into gear OK with hose hooked up on dry land?

[cadunkle]

If it's approximately centered in the log now and you have no vibration I think you're fine. A little concerned about possibility of bent strut or shaft. You'd likely have a vibration though. Check the cutlass bearings for wear. I bet they're toast if it was that far out for long. If you do new bearings it's a good time to check the shaft for runout along with checking the strut.

[CJD]

It sounds like you've got it handled. Although its not impossible, I don't think the prop hit would've been enough to bend the strut. And,2-1/2 turns is a lot! As you pointed out, I don't think your engine lifted itself either. Somebody rushed it previously.

[BOWZ]

Much better. I think or fingers crossed it won't vibrate. Good luck. Let us know how it goes. Does it run and go into gear OK with hose hooked up on dry land?

Have not ran the Boat yet since the mishap. I finished the rough alignment last night around 10, I tossed in one bolt/nut to keep the shaft from slamming the rudder on my trip to the boat ramp today for the final alignment. After the final alignment I will start it up and check smoothness of clutch ahead and clutch astern.


If it's approximately centered in the log now and you have no vibration I think you're fine. A little concerned about possibility of bent strut or shaft. You'd likely have a vibration though. Check the cutlass bearings for wear. I bet they're toast if it was that far out for long. If you do new bearings it's a good time to check the shaft for runout along with checking the strut.

I already did runouts on the shaft, no more than .003" The strut appears straight. I will need to replace the cutless bearing, I have an ever so slight play up and down,(most likely from the load that was on it) and no play right to left. I am hoping that I can get by untill the end of summer before replacing the bearing. maybe do a drip less while I'm at it.


It sounds like you've got it handled. Although its not impossible, I don't think the prop hit would've been enough to bend the strut. And,2-1/2 turns is a lot! As you pointed out, I don't think your engine lifted itself either. Somebody rushed it previously.

Thanks CJD, I am hoping that the strut is still true. I couldn't believe how far alignment was off to, should have known better. If I wasn't trying to get the shaft more centered in the thru hull it wold most likely have only been 1 1/2 turns, which is still way to much! It just frustrates me, the dealership I got it from said they did everything, I can't remember if I asked about alignment, but everything is everything in my book. I think what makes me the most mad is I do this stuff for a living, just on a much larger scale. I should have checked it. I do it on my engines at work. Why would my tiny boat be any different.

Bowz

[cadunkle]

Sounds like you're fine given .003" runout. Years ago I was worried my shaft was bent but it only measured .002" runout... Straight as an arrow. Trying to dial in alignment if you have any slop in the cutlass bearings is ... pointless? It's was better than it was. I'd run it as is for as long as it took to get the bearings and install them, would not slightly sloppy bearings keep me off the water given I don't get out nearly as often as I'd like, but be aware you'll be doing it all again to get it dialed in with new tight bearings.

I've been happy with goretex packing when I repacked mine, thoguh I kind of wish I spent the extra for a dripless seal. Not a biggie for me since mine only stays in the water for a few weeks a year on vaca and otherwise usually 4-8 hours at a time in which bilge will run every few hours.

[CJD]

Be sure to let us know what you measure with the boat floating. I am interested to see if there is a noticeable difference from your trailer setting. I have set my alignment in the water, and I have gotten lazy and set it on the trailer...but I have never had the chance to see how much difference it makes between the 2.

Don't feel bad about the shoddy alignment. I have yet to find a mechanic I trust to do work better than I do with my OCD. It's too bad, for what they charge.

[BOWZ]

Alright guys, I was able to float the boat last week for final alignment. I could not tell any difference with it on the trailer vs. floating. I took extra time to get it as perfect as possible <.001 all the way around. I do not think the measurements changed floated vs trailer, if it did it was less than .001. Went ahead and took it to another boat ramp on the river and had the wife bring it up 100rpms at a time to 4k then bury it once it hit 4K. no vibrations, but did find the rev limiter. Scared the .... outa me. Guess an empty boat at 3.75" less pitch on the prop the engine has no problem moving the boat.

Will be replacing the bearing when there is snow on the ground here in a few months, then I will do it all over again, Might take some extra time and try to move the whole engine over 1/8" to completely center the thru hull.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Bowz

[BOWZ]

This wasn't the first shaft alignment I have done, been the smallest shaft connected to a prop...

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/boat/4984BB7F-259D-4A18-BCC1-D153E99D9D21.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/boat/4984BB7F-259D-4A18-BCC1-D153E99D9D21.jpg.html)
http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/boat/3F086BDE-681E-461C-8875-E3232B5E615B.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/boat/3F086BDE-681E-461C-8875-E3232B5E615B.jpg.html)
Did a complete engine repower for a tug boat that works on the Mississippi this last winter.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/boat/FA6A3442-077B-444D-A557-283370285E85.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/boat/FA6A3442-077B-444D-A557-283370285E85.jpg.html)
The new props were taller so had to cut out the old struts and weld in these new beautiful strut tubes. Watched the guy turn these out on the lath, Beautiful sight.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g76/bigbossbowz/boat/D6DDF519-93A4-4E11-93CD-12818D6BACCF.jpg (http://s53.photobucket.com/user/bigbossbowz/media/boat/D6DDF519-93A4-4E11-93CD-12818D6BACCF.jpg.html)
Was only a QA for the new strut tube, no way I could lay beads like that. I think they started .005 low and with all the beads they put on it sucked it back up. Insane the technique to get it centered up.

I've done a lot of shaft alignments but this was the first with a repower/new shaft tubes and strut tubes. Hope you guys enjoyed a few pictures of a non supra...

Bowz

[CJD]

I like it...will it fit on my boat!?!