$4000 later

[Awill10291]

I bought a 1986 Supra Beast. It has a 460 ford inboard motor that has been marinized.

-replaced impeller
-replaced thermostat
-replaced regular water pump ($50)
-replaced hoses
-took heads off they were severly WARPED had machine place grind down installed all new gaskets was told this was likely the problem. IT WASNT!!!
-replaced all other water pumps (I believe raw water or sea water pump?)
-Place that has done all this work says WATER FLOW IS GOOD.

What the HECK could be next? I bought this boat for $1500, and for the first week it ran fine. NOW IT RUNS AT 220 OR HIGHER after over 4000k of labor and parts. Does anyone have any idea on what could be causing this? When i feel the hose that takes water into the motor, it is cool. When i touch the hoses that the water comes out of the engine they are HOT and you can barely touch. The big silver exhaust manifolds? are always too hot to even touch as well. Was told you should be able to rest your hand on those! Any help would be great. Thanks guys! :(((((((((((

[Jetlink]

Did you install the raw water pump to flow water the correct way? That is easy to fix, check and easy to mess up the first time. Take a picture of the front of the engine, then a close up of the raw water pump and also tell us what the rotation is of the engine as I am not familiar with a Ford 460.

[Wulphie]

Check the thermostat cover. They can get severe rust build up and constrict flow to the exhaust manifolds and through the thermostat housing. Also remove block drains and run water through the motor. Some times you can get rust and sediment build up in the cooling jackets.

Also check that you have a 140 degree marine thermostat. Depending on your exact cooling system the t-stat may require a bypass hole in it.

[wotan2525]

Try to run boat with raw water intake hose in a bucket full of water NOT using a hose to feed it. If the engine does not SUCK through this hose (and quick!) then something is wrong.

If the mechanic is "pushing" water through the engine with a hose, this is your problem. My money is on the raw-water pump being backwards or the impeller being roasted. And the raw water pump is NEW? Not just serviced?

Also -- pull the thermostat out. No reason to even have it in there until you get the engine running cool.

[Awill10291]

The boat is back with the mechanic. WOTAN- Impeller been replaced for the second time this summer. He said he replaced the raw water pump, not just serviced. JETLINK- I would assume this boat mechanic who has fixed many boats on my lake (much newer) put the raw water pump on the right way. I can't get any pics right now because it is back at the shop. Will try to later next week. WULPHIE- I was told by several boat fanatics that thermostats are to make sure the boat runs smoother, and also make sure that the engine doesn't get too cool, SO at one point I actually removed the thermostat to make sure water flow would be sufficient. The boat STILL OVERHEATED. Since then a new thermostat was installed.

[Jetlink]

Man, what you are describing leads me to believe that the pump was installed incorrectly and therefore is not able to draw water to the engine and cool it. Your mechanic might be the best out there but he is like the rest of us, human and we are prone to making mistakes. If the impeller is cooked for a second time already, that is where my money is going. Just as an example, I am now on my second impeller in my raw water pump since I took ownership of my boat 5 years ago and I replaced it only because it came in the new pump like that.

[Wulphie]

The boat is back with the mechanic. WOTAN- Impeller been replaced for the second time this summer. He said he replaced the raw water pump, not just serviced. JETLINK- I would assume this boat mechanic who has fixed many boats on my lake (much newer) put the raw water pump on the right way. I can't get any pics right now because it is back at the shop. Will try to later next week. WULPHIE- I was told by several boat fanatics that thermostats are to make sure the boat runs smoother, and also make sure that the engine doesn't get too cool, SO at one point I actually removed the thermostat to make sure water flow would be sufficient. The boat STILL OVERHEATED. Since then a new thermostat was installed.

This is why I said to check the system for obstructions, rust etc. If the t-stat housing is constricting the flow from rust it doesn't mater if the t-stat is installed or not. Same with rust/sediment build up in the block.

The only reason the engine will overheat is because it is not flowing water. By eliminating the probability of the pumps not working and t-stat not opening then there has to be a blockage.

[Awill10291]

Here is my last two emails to mechanic.....

We have been thru all that. Your problem is you dont have a supra 351 marine engine. You have a ford farm truck engine someone has tried to hot rod very poorly i might add. They took the 351 marine engine out and put this engine in. They put a 460 in with a 429 intake and munched the lifters and bent push rods with warped heads. Ill look it over next week. We had it running well and it ran around wshores for 20 minutes wo going over 175 degrees. Dont know what happened there after. So either something new has sprung up or those heads warped again. Hopefully it is something simple but i wouldnt hold my breath.



Sent from my Sprint Samsung Galaxy S® 6.


-------- Original message --------
From: [email protected]
Date: 9/4/2015 12:54 PM (GMT-06:00)
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: supra

I know you guys are probably more frustrated with the Supra than me. I’m just trying to help here and posted in the SUPRA boat forum. Almost every Supra owner said that it is very common for the raw water pump to be installed the wrong direction. The only other ideas I’ve gotten so far is an obstruction in the water flow, rust in the t-stat housing even if the t-stat is removed, rust sediment and build up in the block. Maybe this will help, maybe not?

Thanks,

Austin

[Jetlink]

Pardon my ignorance but an engine is an engine first and foremost. Sure, the 460 is not standard to these boats but at the end of the day, it works the same way as every other engine should in theory. Mix gas with air in the proper ratio, add spark and there you go. There is always the byproduct of heat from the combustion process and that is what you are having issues with. I can speak from experience because I stored my boat without the old pump over the winter and when I put the new one on, I put it on backwards, figured it out really fast that I did and as soon as I fixed the rotation my exhaust risers and tubes were cool enough to touch which sounds exactly like your problem that you are having. If I were a professional mechanic and I installed the pump backwards it might be a blow to my pride but no reason to get an attitude about it like the general tone of the email from your mechanic reads in my mind.

[Awill10291]

I would agree. I am beyond fed up with him. The thing is I'm done paying a dime to this guy, but my dad who knows him really likes him because he was able to fix his sea ray several times and done a nice job. I would totally agree with you JETLINK! I'll send ya pics when i get a chance. Then you will be able to tell if it is installed the wrong way?

[Moor]

Pardon my ignorance but an engine is an engine first and foremost. Sure, the 460 is not standard to these boats but at the end of the day, it works the same way as every other engine should in theory. Mix gas with air in the proper ratio, add spark and there you go. There is always the byproduct of heat from the combustion process and that is what you are having issues with. I can speak from experience because I stored my boat without the old pump over the winter and when I put the new one on, I put it on backwards, figured it out really fast that I did and as soon as I fixed the rotation my exhaust risers and tubes were cool enough to touch which sounds exactly like your problem that you are having. If I were a professional mechanic and I installed the pump backwards it might be a blow to my pride but no reason to get an attitude about it like the general tone of the email from your mechanic reads in my mind.

I agree with Jetlink. The problem is NOT that its a 460 truck engine in a boat. This is not the first boat to have an automotive motor swapped over to a marine application. The 454 in my sunsport was a truck motor before the marine world adapted it to boat applications. An engine is an engine, it doesn't care if its in a boat, truck, or car. There is another problem. I'd suspect the raw water pump, like others have said.

[crystal waters]

Any chance that previous owner had impeller break up and pieces are lodged elsewhere in the cooling system and need to be cleared.
Often a common problem ie blockage

[lively]

there seems to be alot going on here .. what do you know besides its getting hot ?

go buy a IR thermo gun and read the head temps ...

remove the plugs and take pics of what they look like , you can tell alot about a engine buy its plugs

everyone is right the impeller goes both ways , and the impeller pump "housing" or the impeller "cam" which makes the suction could be worn past spec causing cavitation and not allowing proper flow ..

remember this is not pressurized water , if it still gets hot with no T-stat then start checking head temp and make sure you suck from a bucket ...

report back

[Outsick]

Have you pulled the hose off the trans cooler and stuck your fingers in there to feel for old pieces of impeller and or possibly plugged up exhaust elbows.

[Ptownkid]

Does anyone know if there's some kind of diagram that outlines where all the water passages are?

[Awill10291]

Finally got ahold of the Mechanic in person. Went to the shop. According to him multiple different "rods" were jerry rigged into the engine, which was causing it to backfire. They replaced with all 460 rods and there is not longer a misfire. The took it out again and it IS still over heating. They checked everywhere for blockage. You would think this is the first thing they would have mentioned, noticed, BUT the raw water pump is from the old engine which is a small block. He now says that a big block 460 raw water pump would provide much more water flow and would most likely solve this issue. (Not sure why this wouldn't have been the first darn thing to look into when we took it in months ago.) I am to do some research and find out what BRAVO?? water pump is available and meant for a ford 460 BIG BLOCK. Can anyone direct me to a website to purchase the correct raw water pump to hopefully solve this overheating issue? Thanks.

[UKandH]

As far as i know, there is no dedicated designed marine engine in an inboard ski / sports boat, All are based upon road car / truck engines, so your mechanic is a knob :)

RWP's can be bought from almost anywhere, what capacity / flow rate do you need?

[UKandH]

Try one of these http://bpi.ebasicpower.com/pc/CRURA057028/PLE3C

[wotan2525]

Finally got ahold of the Mechanic in person. Went to the shop. According to him multiple different "rods" were jerry rigged into the engine, which was causing it to backfire. They replaced with all 460 rods and there is not longer a misfire. The took it out again and it IS still over heating. They checked everywhere for blockage. You would think this is the first thing they would have mentioned, noticed, BUT the raw water pump is from the old engine which is a small block. He now says that a big block 460 raw water pump would provide much more water flow and would most likely solve this issue. (Not sure why this wouldn't have been the first darn thing to look into when we took it in months ago.) I am to do some research and find out what BRAVO?? water pump is available and meant for a ford 460 BIG BLOCK. Can anyone direct me to a website to purchase the correct raw water pump to hopefully solve this overheating issue? Thanks.

Sorry but your mechanic is A) Full of shit. and B) Completely wrong.

The size/flow-rate of the small block and big block pumps is exactly the same. The only difference from engine to engine is how they mount and how they are driven.

I believe that (AT THE WORST) your raw water pump is fine but needs to be rebuilt. You can confirm that if you can get the part number/stamping off of it and post it here.

I also believe that it's much more likely that your mechanic (who has already proved himself incompetent, as well as a liar) is unable to diagnose the real issue and is just shaking you upside down to see how much money will fall out of your pockets before you tell him to get stuffed.

You've paid him FAR too much for FAR too little. This guy is a crook.

[scottschmitt]

If the risers are too hot to touch, there is not enough water flow. Obstruction seems more likely than needing a bigger water pump.

Someone correct me. I know the 302/351 ford head gasket must be oriented correctly. I don't know what the 460 gasket looks like or whether it could be installed in such a way as to block water flow.

Alternatively there is junk (bits of impeller, small rocks, grass, plastic) stuck somewhere in the water flow system.

[Jetlink]

Sorry but your mechanic is A) Full of shit. and B) Completely wrong. This guy is a crook.

When you get some more time later in the day, would you mind telling me what you really think about this mechanic and don't hold back.

I totally agree with everything that you have said above. This mechanic is so clueless that he is just firing from the hip and saying stuff that he is hoping the OP just accepts as truth. I would run over and grab the boat and whatever else is yours from his shop and go find someone else because at this point in time, anybody else is better than this mechanic.

[CJD]

Since you've checked everything else, blockage from a trashed pump rotor sounds the most obvious. I'd remove the thermostat and run it to see what the temp does. If its still hot with no thermostat, then you have a blockage. Try back flushing to blow the blockage...but if that doesn't work, you'll have to start taking parts apart to find it.

By the way, what "rods" is he talking about? Has he broken it down far enough to replace connecting rods?

[Awill10291]

Thanks for the replies. On a bright note he agrees that this has been a pain and isn't charging us anymore than the current bill regardless of what it takes to get running at normal temp. He showed me the size of a regular raw water pump and a Bravo pump (big block raw water pump) and there was a significant difference. He also said something similar to what an above poster said. He said that the homemade brackets that someone put on for the current raw water pump were moving around causing flow issues and so they had to tighten something in order for even the one that is on there now to work effectively. He told me they have checked multiple times for blockage. I don't even know where I would start to check for blockage myself. We've tried no thermostat and still overheats just as fast.

[Cusefan78]

I went through what you're going through a few years back. Mechanic I used for an io I had was recommended to me then 8 months later and two engines I had to bring him to court. Seriously the worst summer of my life. If this guy isn't charging you to replace the pump let him do it. If that doesn't work you need to find a new mechanic that knows what he's doing. Just from reading these posts I can't imagine another pump fixing the issue. If you're getting flow from the current pump you shouldn't be over heating like you are. If I were you I would go down there have him unhook the intake hose and watch the pump suck up the bucket of water. If it's doing that then you have a blockage of its not then the pump is either bad or it's backwards. I'm pretty good with engines and Water pumps. I run an ice rink during the winter that has 4 zambonis and they all have two raw water pumps on them so I have had to rebuild them a few times. These Sherwood pumps are the same ones Zamboni runs and they will cycle a few hundred gallons during an ice cut so if they can move that kind of water then they should have zero problem cooling a big block. Just my two cents

[chris young]

I'm with Cusefan, when you watch one of these pumps pull water from a bucket at idle there's no doubt a regular properly functioning sherwood will pull more water than you need to cool anything. Mine will empty a 5 gallon pail in about 20 seconds, if that's not enough to cool your motor, there is something seriously wrong. This guy does not know what he's doing, get your boat and find someone else.

[Jetlink]

This guy does not know what he's doing, get your boat and find someone else.

But then how will this "mechanic" learn anything at the owner's expense?

[chris young]

Point taken LOL. My uncle (one of the quickest witted people I know) once told a mechanic who was charging a lot of labour, "it's not up to me to fund your education"

[Cusefan78]

Yeah this guy is clearly clueless and is trying to learn on the job and charge for it. Pull the boat from him and get it to someone who know what he or she is doing. I would start with the raw water pump. Make sure it's pumping. If it is pull the circulation pump and clean out all the cooling Ports all the way to the risers. It's pretty simple job if you take your time and keep track of where everything goes. You can also get a service manual on line to help you out. Plus we are all here if you get stuck.

[wotan2525]

I had another idea this morning -- I don't think OP is interested in working on this boat. I think he needs to find an experienced inboard (or at least a marine mechanic.) Does anyone near nebraska have any referrals for him?

[Awill10291]

The thing most boat shops won't even work on this boat for me. I called and explained 1986 Supra with 460 engine and they said that it's too old. Omaha Marine that is. FYI this mechanic took the boat out twice last week and it did the same thing it does with me. If you are flying around the lake it stays at 150-175. Then when you slow down it goes to 220 and it stays there! When the boat is running and you pull the hoses off where they go into the motor (where thermostat was) water is flowing. FYI CJD he has taken I think most the engine apart and the heads were the most warped heads the machine shop had ever seen. Those were grinded down and supposedly just fine now so that is not the issue. I'm all for calling this guy out, but how can he not know anything when he owns a boat shop over 50 boats there. Plus he's fixed our Sea Ray multiple times in the last 8 years with no issues and decent rates... I should post my bills on here shortly to show what you guys have all done.

[wotan2525]

The thing most boat shops won't even work on this boat for me. I called and explained 1986 Supra with 460 engine and they said that it's too old. Omaha Marine that is. FYI this mechanic took the boat out twice last week and it did the same thing it does with me. If you are flying around the lake it stays at 150-175. Then when you slow down it goes to 220 and it stays there! When the boat is running and you pull the hoses off where they go into the motor (where thermostat was) water is flowing. FYI CJD he has taken I think most the engine apart and the heads were the most warped heads the machine shop had ever seen. Those were grinded down and supposedly just fine now so that is not the issue. I'm all for calling this guy out, but how can he not know anything when he owns a boat shop over 50 boats there. Plus he's fixed our Sea Ray multiple times in the last 8 years with no issues and decent rates... I should post my bills on here shortly to show what you guys have all done.


I'm still sticking by the absolute first thing that I said in this thread. The raw water pump is worn and is not pumping enough volume at low RPMs. There is a rebuild procedure for this pump.

BUT -- if this guy has 50 boats in his yard, he has another pump around that will bolt up and allow him to test this theory. Your issue is flow at low RPMs. This is a bad pump or slipping belt. Your first post says that the RWP is new. Have we confirmed/verified that?

[Jetlink]

To add to Wotan, how much more $$$ and parts are you going to throw at this before checking the raw water pump? A new one costs way less than $4,000 I can assure you that. What you are describing as well as the mechanic that it only starts to overheat at low power settings screams to me that the issue is a flow issue. Check the pumps, hell, throw a new one on there and see what that does. If it fixes the problem, that is a win. If it doesn't, having an extra pump laying around is not necessarily bad either.

[Awill10291]

He's really busy now with winterizing and asked me to get on her or online and find a bravo pump, and I am gonna corner him to try to make sure he'll pay for it. He already said he would install for free and not charge anything. So does anyone have a website for a ford 460 (he called it a bravo pump) raw water pump that would push enough water through?? Rather than bashing him anymore I'm to the point where he is going to make this thing work with no more labor fees. I will go there in person until it's done. It's 4 blocks from my house and he works on half the boats on this lake. WOTAN, you just mentioned the belts? He said something about having trouble with the homemade brackets on the existing water pump and how when the boat runs they move and are really ghetto. I know this whole raw water pump deal should've been the first thing he should've replace imo too. Could've sworn he said he did replace it, but maybe not. I can't find all my invoices, but i'll try to post the last one.

[Awill10291]

http://s18.postimg.org/oz9qdyyp1/Screenshot_2015_10_08_12_35_00.png (http://postimg.org/image/oz9qdyyp1/)

http://s18.postimg.org/me45qg9b9/Screenshot_2015_10_08_19_39_53.png (http://postimg.org/image/me45qg9b9/)

http://s18.postimg.org/8lpqutijp/Screenshot_2015_10_08_19_40_00.png (http://postimg.org/image/8lpqutijp/)

[wotan2525]

Those images look too small to decipher.

Here's my advice (you are welcome to continue to ignore it of course) -- ask him for a part number on the pump he wants to use. Make him make the decisions and tell you what to buy. He's the expert (*cough*)

A "bravo" pump is probably driven off the crank and I doubt you have room for that on your engine. That is why the raw water pumps for inboards are mounted on a bracket and driven off of a belt. Any chance you can go down there and take some photos? I'm very familiar with 460 engines but not familiar with the marine application for them. At $4000 in you could have easily swapped in an EFI big block engine at this point.

[CJD]

From what I am reading, it was a bad temp sender. So you're fixed, right??!

[Wulphie]

This is the pump the mechanic is referring to. These do pump significantly more water than what you would find on a pcm engine. If that will solve the problem is debatable. . . http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MerCruiser-Bravo-454-502-raw-Sea-Water-Pump-46-807151A8-seawater-/400155601291

[Jetlink]

This is the pump the mechanic is referring to. These do pump significantly more water than what you would find on a pcm engine. If that will solve the problem is debatable. . . http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MerCruiser-Bravo-454-502-raw-Sea-Water-Pump-46-807151A8-seawater-/400155601291

Because it doesn't say that it is for a 460, hence the fabrication work required on the brackets. I agree with Wotan, some pictures of the existing pump and engine as a whole might help here. Also, make the mechanic specify the exact part number(s) he needs for this fix and go from there. Otherwise, anything else is just a shot in the dark at this point.

[Cusefan78]

You don't need a bravo pump. Get a new Sherwood pump. Supra and most inboard companies have used the same pump for every engine hp for years. Let me repeat myself. These pumps we all use will suck up a 5 gallon bucket of water in minutes at idle. If that's isn't enough to cool an engine then I don't know what will. This guy may have 50 boats he's working on but how many of them are inboards. Inboards have a different setup and clearly this guy doesn't know inboards. Get a new Sherwood pump have him out it on and be done with this nightmare.

[cadunkle]

If you did all this yourself you'd likely have spent under a grand. Most of it is fairly straightforward on these old simple boats. Anyhow, that Mercruiser pump seems pricey and a bit over the top with the external/second fuel pump mounting. I would see about whatever Sherwood pump PCM used on the 454 as I think that's closer to $300 and is plenty of flow for a 300-400 HP big block. You may have to modify brackets from something else and make some spacers to get belts to line up, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Also, suggest you make sure starter/alternator/fuel pump/carb are all suitable for marine use. I'm paranoid about stuff like that. Automotive fuel and sparky parts are risky in an enclosed engine compartment.

[CJD]

Guys, reading the work order, the boat was never overheating. It was a faulty temp sender causing a false overheat reading.

[Awill10291]

It's definitely overheating. You can't touch the large metal exhaust risers with your hand without burning yourself. You also can't even touch the hoses that are connected to the front of the motor where the cold water is supposed to be coming in at.

Our last two emails.

ME: I’ve done some hw on the raw water pump. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MerCruiser-Bravo-454-502-raw-Sea-Water-Pump-46-807151A8-seawater-/400155601291

That is another $600.00. Everyone on the Supra boat forum seems to think the one on there should work if we can get brackets mounted correctly, or it may need rebuilt. Do you expect me to buy one of those pumps for that much? I thought you had replaced the raw water pump from the beginning. According to the forums that should’ve been the first thing checked and replaced. Please email back asap.


Mechanic: As I have explained numerous times. Your raw water pump is fine. It's been replaced twice. Finding brackets to fit your engine to modify a bravo water pump to fit is going to be very difficult. They never had a bravo pump on a Ford engine.

Getting frustrated. Maybe small claims court? Where from here....

[wotan2525]

It's definitely overheating. You can't touch the large metal exhaust risers with your hand without burning yourself. You also can't even touch the hoses that are connected to the front of the motor where the cold water is supposed to be coming in at.

Our last two emails.

ME: I’ve done some hw on the raw water pump. http://www.ebay.com/itm/OEM-MerCruiser-Bravo-454-502-raw-Sea-Water-Pump-46-807151A8-seawater-/400155601291

That is another $600.00. Everyone on the Supra boat forum seems to think the one on there should work if we can get brackets mounted correctly, or it may need rebuilt. Do you expect me to buy one of those pumps for that much? I thought you had replaced the raw water pump from the beginning. According to the forums that should’ve been the first thing checked and replaced. Please email back asap.


Mechanic: As I have explained numerous times. Your raw water pump is fine. It's been replaced twice. Finding brackets to fit your engine to modify a bravo water pump to fit is going to be very difficult. They never had a bravo pump on a Ford engine.

Getting frustrated. Maybe small claims court? Where from here....

You need to talk to this guy in person. Something is being lost in translation.

[Jetlink]

You need to talk to this guy in person. Something is being lost in translation.

Right, if the raw water pump is fine, then why is there a flow issue in cooling the engine and the exhaust? On my engine, the raw water pump pumps water from the lake pretty much directly to the thermostat housing and the exhaust manifolds. If the hoses are getting hot then either the pump is toast, installed backwards with regards to rotation or any other issue. At this point in time, I would think you are best to just go pick up the boat and stop writing checks for this shady tree mechanic.

Go pick up your boat, bring it home if you can and then start taking pictures and maybe video and post them up here so we can get a visual on what you are dealing with because this has been turned into something way more difficult and expensive than it ever should have been. Like was said above, for $4,000 or so you could have had a new crate engine dropped in there I bet.

[bens250ex]

This is why I don't pay people to work on my stuff, go get your boat and learn a thing or two along with saving your wallet. If it was me I would start at water inlet and go to town with the cooling system which is an extremely simple design. Everything on these engines are very simple and straight forward.

[leetudor]

Have you hooked your boat to a bucket or fake-a-lake to see if the pump is sucking water and is the water coming out the exhaust?

[Cusefan78]

Have you tried calling skidim. I know they have universal raw water pump brackets for fords. Just from the info from that email this guy is in over his head. If he has put two pumps in and have done all he says he has then you would be using your boat right now.

[SquamInboards]

You need to talk to this guy in person. Something is being lost in translation.

I would really go down and look at the boat with the mechanic. If everything else is working, this is an issue you can resolve systematically. Verify that each component is working properly, one at a time.

Reading over the work orders you posted, it sounds like the boat had numerous issues when you got it. To quote a few:

- bad distributor
- broken distributor clamp
- battery had been hooked up backwards
- various electrical issues including main ground to battery
- bad neutral safety switch
- severely warped heads (having been recently installed this way - gaskets looked "fairly new")
- bent push rods
- automotive starter and fuel pump
- carb needed rebuild
- battery CCA rating too low
- temp sender was bad
- tower mounts are not reinforced

The fact that the engine was not originally marine doesn't necessarily matter, but adding up all these things tells me a bigger story. The previous owner didn't properly maintain this boat, leaving you with a rash of issues to attempt to figure out. That leads me to question where else corners were cut. I do agree with others that perhaps this mechanic is good with I/Os but not familiar with inboards, which is (at best) a disadvantage to you both. It does sound like he's trying to do the right thing at this point and get to the bottom of it. This is one of those situations where everyone loses. I hope he can get you straightened out and back on the water. Just work with him to get to a resolution unless you have a good alternative; I get the feeling that this is what you really want to do.

TL;DR: There is nothing more expensive than a cheap boat.

[Cusefan78]

What really is bothering me is of the raw water pump is fine then why is he trying to add a bravo pump. If you need a new bracket they make ford universals that you can get. If he's saying the pump is good and he still can't figure it out the mechanic is guessing. But i do agree with the above. This boat had a ton of issues because it was neglected by the previous owner. Find a mechanic that knows inboards. someone on here has to know a mechanic in your area

[ngavchris]

I agree with others... Get a new Sherwood pump. It will take care of the issue. I had a similar issue. Boat was running hot. Put a new impellar in and thought problem was fixed. Still had the same problem. I hook my boat to a rubbermaid storage container on the trailer. Could tell by putting my hand on the inlet that it did not have good suction. Pump was worn just enough that it would pull the water in. I called Skidim and got a new pump. Bamm... Had so much suction it would pull your finger in the hose.
Others might be able to rebuild the pump, but I just replaced it.

[Awill10291]

SwuamInboards, You are right on with your post. At this point I almost feel like I should just get rid of it after this issue is fixed. I haven't even been able to enjoy 1 day on the water with this investment :(.

[Awill10291]

Last text to my dad who's boat is getting winterized; Not doing anything to it for now. Too busy winterizing. I told him it needs a larger sea water pump made for a big block ford. The one he has is for small block ford. Not enough water flow to keep up. Problem is no one makes one for a big block ford.

Couple questions for this board.

1. Is it even POSSIBLE that it may really indeed need a bigger raw water pump?

2. Does anyone know of a good inboard mechanic in Nebraska. Preferably Omaha. (Omaha Marine won't work on this boat because of age. I could try Valley Marine, which is where this guy ran the snow before he started his own large shop.)

Thanks

[Jetlink]

I told him it needs a larger sea water pump made for a big block ford. The one he has is for small block ford. Not enough water flow to keep up. Problem is no one makes one for a big block ford.

This right here is the problem. It is a mindset issue with this guy. What raw water pump is used on a 454? You mean to tell me that the pump that can handle the cooling needs of a GM 454 cannot handle a Ford 460? Man, my bovine fecal matter detector is pegged out on max on this.

[Awill10291]

This right here is the problem. It is a mindset issue with this guy. What raw water pump is used on a 454? You mean to tell me that the pump that can handle the cooling needs of a GM 454 cannot handle a Ford 460? Man, my bovine fecal matter detector is pegged out on max on this.

So my question to you is. Would a 454 or larger pump make a difference though? Also I'm going to try to go get pics and video. Also fake a lake done.

[Cusefan78]

No cause the block can only allow so much water through at once. I wouldn't test the pump with a fake a lake. Unhook the feeder hose to the pump. Put it in a 5 gallon bucket of water. Turn it on. The bucket should be empty pretty quickly. I have never timer it before but it seems like under 30 seconds. Someone else on here may know the time better

[chris young]

I didn't put a timer on it, but I counted in my head last week when I winterized and I sucked 5 gal of antifreeze in about 20 seconds. That was at high idle, (1100 rpm)

[SquamInboards]

I'm trying to remember, but a few years back one of the techs at the marina where I was working bought a 1990-ish Sport Nautique with the original carb'ed Ford 351. He had some weird overheating issues and even replaced the circ pump after determining the RWP was working perfectly, no air leaks, etc. I will ask him next time I see him, but he ended up doing head gaskets on it, which I think actually solved the problem. I believe it was allowing air to get into the water, which was causing bubbles in the system which are nearly impossible to discover since it's not a closed system. The RWP was working perfectly, as was the circ pump. But I think by allowing air into the system, it was causing flow issues even though everything looked ok.

Basically, everything checked out fine, and when tested individually each component was working perfectly and/or water was flowing freely. But in actual use, it would overheat at idle.

Again, my memory is a bit fuzzy but does this make sense to anyone else? Especially where this engine has recently had head gaskets done.

I agree (especially where it appears to have been working previously) that a larger RWP is not the answer.

[Cusefan78]

That does make sense. If the gasket was bad or the head wasn't torqued correctly it would allow air in but I would imagine if air is leaking in then water would leak out.

[wotan2525]

For the (at least) third time in this thread: I know the answer.

I had the same problem. My pump seemed fine and the impeller had been replaced. I had cleared all of the lines of any potential blockages. My boat ran fine on the hose (and at idle) but overheated while under way.

The pump was worn and needed to be rebuilt. They have a service life. Sherwood sells a rebuild kit that includes new bearings and seals as a well as a new brass "insert" that makes your pump tight and efficient again.

This was my first reply to this thread and I was told by OP that he had replaced the raw water pump. Now that we know that isn't the case, it's the only possible solution. The pump is either shot (or there is still blockage somewhere.)

If you're not doing the work yourself, I suspect a new pump would be a cheaper alternative to paying for the rebuild kit and then hiring a machine shop to assemble it for you. But that's up to OP. I can't help him any more. He's not interested in fixing the boat, only remaining on good terms with his current horrible mechanic.

[Awill10291]

For the (at least) third time in this thread: I know the answer.

I had the same problem. My pump seemed fine and the impeller had been replaced. I had cleared all of the lines of any potential blockages. My boat ran fine on the hose (and at idle) but overheated while under way.

The pump was worn and needed to be rebuilt. They have a service life. Sherwood sells a rebuild kit that includes new bearings and seals as a well as a new brass "insert" that makes your pump tight and efficient again.

This was my first reply to this thread and I was told by OP that he had replaced the raw water pump. Now that we know that isn't the case, it's the only possible solution. The pump is either shot (or there is still blockage somewhere.)

If you're not doing the work yourself, I suspect a new pump would be a cheaper alternative to paying for the rebuild kit and then hiring a machine shop to assemble it for you. But that's up to OP. I can't help him any more. He's not interested in fixing the boat, only remaining on good terms with his current horrible mechanic.

Did you not read previous posts? I clarified with the "horrible mechanic" he says the raw water pump HAS been replaced twice... At this point being on good terms doesn't really matter to me. If you read post I mentioned small claims court, which is on my mind. It's hard when he works on all my neighbors boats, families boats, and stores them. Plus he's not making me pay a dime till it's fixed.

[Salty87]

Replace the pump (again)....don't replace the pump....

Test the pump. You or the next mechanic will have to anyway if this mechanic hasn't/won't. Tossing parts at a problem rarely has a good outcome.

[Cusefan78]

So don't take this the wrong way but the mechanic is never going to get this boat right. It's been almost two months. If you want your boat repaired pull it and bring the guy to small claims court. $4k is absurd money to throw at a boat and still have the original problem. I doubt you'll ever see a dime of it back but just having it on record that this guy screwed you should make some of the wound heal a bit. I'm kind of over this thread. We have all tried to help you. Not really sure what else we can do Other then flying out and spending two hours repairing it ourselves. If you try selling the boat you'll never recoup a fraction of what you have into it. Pull the boat and I'm sure any of us will walk you through repairing it correctly. This really isn't brain surgery if it's overheating it can only be a few things. I would be glad to FaceTime you when you get it and help out.

[bens250ex]

I've personally rebuilt the Sherwood pump on my boat, all you need is a small press... One from harbor would do the trick..

[Cusefan78]

He needs to see if it's the pump first. If I was him the 4K would steer me away from buying more stuff till the issue is figured out.

[docdrs]

pull the intake hose off the intake then attach a hose to it and see if it will suck water out of a pail.....if it does not then the pump is no good.
imo. when winterizing i remove it from my v drive and let it suck up antifreeze. Use a clear braided hose so you can see it sucking. 02 if you are running it out of the water on a fake a lake the pump will always look good

[Awill10291]

Pulled her out of storage today. Have some more funds to put into the Beast. Never going back to that mechanic. **NOTE: STILL OVERHEATING. It's NOT the thermostat, regular water pump, imperller, or THE HEADS. Had the heads taken to a machine shop and grinded down. Raw water pump was never replaced. Only Impeller. Unfortunately almost no mechanic/boat shop will take a look at my boat because it's so old and has the engine swap. Does ANYONE know of a knowledgable boat mechanic in the Omaha/Council Bluffs/or Lincoln area? Would anyone be down to skype me with my boat hooked up to a fake a lake to determine the overheating issue? Talked to a few guys at the boat show this past Sunday, and they said it's likely the raw water pump. Either needs a rebuild or a whole new pump like other have mentioned on this forum (although according to mechanic that had worked on it the last year it had plently of water flow when hooked up to a fake a lake).... I did talk to a boat mechanic in Omaha today that said it's likely the timing and that the timing needs to be exact and tuned up perfectly in order for the 460 truck engine to run at a normal temperature. He said that should be the first thing I should have a mechanic check and that at idle should be set at 9? and at 32 or 33 when at TOTAL ADVANCE... Of course none of that terminology means anything to me. Any more advice/help from anyone is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[Salty87]

Dude, test that darn pump already. The fake a lake is an awful test. The water from a garden hose is under pressure. When a boat is on the lake it has to suck water uphill. Any mechanic who would tell you that a fake a lake is a good test is an idiot. No other way about it. Wouldn't you rather know the pump is in fact good or bad so you can stop guessing? It's a hell of alot cheaper to test it than just replace it without knowing.

[SquamInboards]

Would anyone be down to skype me with my boat hooked up to a fake a lake to determine the overheating issue? Talked to a few guys at the boat show this past Sunday, and they said it's likely the raw water pump. Either needs a rebuild or a whole new pump like other have mentioned on this forum


Dude, test that darn pump already. The fake a lake is an awful test. The water from a garden hose is under pressure. When a boat is on the lake it has to suck water uphill. Any mechanic who would tell you that a fake a lake is a good test is an idiot. No other way about it. Wouldn't you rather know the pump is in fact good or bad so you can stop guessing? It's a hell of alot cheaper to test it than just replace it without knowing.

Definitely gotta do the bucket test next. You disconnect the hose from the fitting that goes through the hull near the transmission, and stick that into a 5-gal bucket full of water. Then you start the engine and time exactly how long it takes to empty the bucket at idle. If you want to get fancy, you can drill a hole in the side of the bucket near the bottom and put a hose fitting right on it (seal it with caulking of course) - you can even put a little valve inline to get really fancy. It's a good way to non-tox the engine when winterizing, too. It allows you to put the bucket above the height of the engine so gravity is on your side.

One thing I would do BEFORE that, is to run the engine on a hose / fake-a-lake / whatever, so you know the system is primed (aka full of water). THEN try your bucket test.

In fact, it's not a bad technique to run your engine on dry land using a bucket, rather than a hose directly - you can put the garden hose into the bucket so it stays filled. It's possible to create enough suction at higher RPM to flatten a regular garden hose when hooked up directly to the intake hose on the RWP. The bucket creates a buffer against that especially if you are going above idle speed. Always in netural only of course!

[Jetlink]

Take some pictures of your raw water pump both installed in the boat and out of the boat and apart as well. Post them up here and it will help us get you pointed in a good direction.

We will make a boat mechanic out of you yet.

[agetech]

Float your boat down the Missouri to St Joe and I'll take a look at it! Make sure your transmission cooler isn't clogged with debris, this happened to me. Seriously I would like to take a look, I am a retired Air Force mechanic, now it's muscle cars and boats.

[Awill10291]

Thanks for all the great replies. Salty of course I'd rather test it, but I don't know where the raw water pump even is... I'm looking at youtube and through this forum today and I will certainly try to do the bucket test on my own. AgeTech I do plan on going out on the river this spring/summer! I'll be in touch if I need you and thanks for you're offer!!! How long of a float would that be to St. Joe? Thanks for all your guys help.

[Jetlink]

Follow the water, start at the raw water pick up and follow the hoses and the first stop on the engine is going to be your raw water pump.

[wotan2525]

This thread again?

http://media0.giphy.com/media/Rhhr8D5mKSX7O/giphy.gif

[Cusefan78]

I'll FaceTime with you if you need help with the pump.

[Salty87]

You don't need to know where the pump is to test it.

What sort of fake a lake do you have? Does it connect to the outside of the hull and almost look like a toilet plunger? Or, are you connecting a garden hose inside the boat closer to the engine?

[Awill10291]

Wotan!

http://i68.tinypic.com/b98z6w.jpg

[Awill10291]

http://i64.tinypic.com/efkvly.jpg

Spent probably 50 hours trying to get the previous rhino liner that was painted blue off this tower. Took to 2 powder coating shops in Omaha and their ovens were to small. Went with some black coating my buddy had at his shop, and it doesn't look too bad. Tower Speakers to be on soon. CuseFan I messaged you. Will be doing 5 gallon bucket test this weekend if nice out! TY!

[SquamInboards]

I just realized we've never seen a picture of this boat. Have we?

[wotan2525]

Spent probably 50 hours trying to get the previous rhino liner that was painted blue off this tower. Took to 2 powder coating shops in Omaha

You should have just visited 1 dumpster.

Sorry, I rarely play the villain but this thread is just too much for me. I don't like my tower all that much but that one is just horrrrrrible.

[Moor]

Is that a home made tower?!?

[Awill10291]

View My Video (http://tinypic.com/r/2ugdyrn/9)

http://i65.tinypic.com/4gsq5g.jpg

http://i64.tinypic.com/293v96q.jpg

CHECK THE VID PLEASE.

There is no easy way that I can see to just hook the hose up to a 5 gallon bucket. Everything is SO tough to get too. I can't find the line in the back either. I even pulled the floor board up that comes up. Yes, the Tower looks to be homeade... I think it's unique, plus once I get my 4 tower speakers on with the LED lights and windows tinted I think it will be pretty slick. I finally found a mechanic in Louisville NE that is going to take a stab.

[cadunkle]

Follow that hose off the raw water pump you were pointing to. It should go over to the port side of the bilge and run back. It should go through a trans cooler at some point (metal tube 8"-12" or so long, has two small lines to trans out the side), then after the trans cooler through some more hose into a through hull fitting near or next to the trans. You may have to poke your head down to see and then work by feel in that area if there is no easily removable part of the floor after the doghouse.

Anyhow, just follow that hose. You may be able to disconnect the hose from the through hull and have enough slack to get it into a bucket (or fitting on side/bottom of bucket) sitting on the floor next to the engine/trans. If it won't reach just disconenct the hose from the through hull side of the trans cooler and buy a piece of hose the same size (1" or 1.25", likely) that is long enough to get you to the bucket. Or remove hose from raw water pump side of trans cooler and it may be long enough. You can run the engine on hose/out of water without the trans cooler getting water, it's only needed when in gear and trans is making heat.

FWIW that raw water pump doesn't look new? Could be and was painted but just scuffed up on install. Hard to tell in video. New circulating pump (on engine) is good. I assume either new backing plate or if old was reused it was clean with no holes rusted through? Regardless, you'll learn to work blind when needed. Anything that mechanic did nis suspect, just gotta check and see waht's good/bad/unknown and go from there. If you were in my neck of the woods I'd gladly lend a hand, big block Ford power in an old Supra is sweet! If my 454 ever dies or needs a rebuild the Saltare is getting a 460.

[chautauquasun]

I am very late to this party and didn't read all of the posts so not sure if you were able to ascertain if the water pump is installed correctly. When I first bought my 84 Rider someone had installed the water pump backwards...very easy to do...looks the same either way. I discovered it by looking over the edge of the boat and saw bubbles coming up from underneath because the water pump was pumping the hot air out. Easy way to tell if the pump is backwards if you see bubbles coming up on the side of the boat. Not sure if your intake on the bottom is on the port or starboard side. Mine was on the port side. reinstalled the pump the right way and never had another over heating problem.

[Wulphie]

In your video there is a person standing behind the engine, you need to lift up the floor section they are standing on. You will find the through hull fitting the hose is connected to. Disconnect the hose and add another section of hose with a double barb fitting. This will give you all the length you will need.

A 5 gallon bucket is way to small, if things are working properly a garden hose cannot keep up with the demands of the raw water pump. I use a base from a 25 gallon shop vac and even that gets sucked dry very quickly when my engine is cold and at high idle.

[Awill10291]

Chautaquasun, I made sure the raw water pump was on correct. Wulphie, I pulled that back panel up in the past and don't remember seeing the through hull fitting there. Will check when I get my boat back.

UPDATE.... I finally found a mechanic that owns a Street Rod/Boat Repair shop that was willing to repair/look at my old boat. You won't believe this, or I guess most you may considering many said it has to be just a water flow issue, but he said the boat was pulling through water, but after a couple hours ($$$$) of trying to find out why it was overheating he found that whoever put in this engine used a cheap hose for the main intake, and you are supposed to use copper lined hoses to avoid kinks/damage. Apparently the hose UNDER THE ENGINE, (which I would have never probably found myself) was completely kinked/flatted and gets even worse when you accelerate. He is POSITIVE this is the issue along with another kink/old hose. I won't believe it till I see it, and plan on picking it up and taking it out midweek so I'll keep you updated. If this is truly the fix, I will RAISE HELL with the previous mechanic who removed heads, grinded them down, replaced impellar, thermostat, etc etc etc! New mechanic said he'll literally give me the hose and you can clearly see why there was a problem. He did say it took several hours of labor to really track down that hose under the engine and at an idle it did seem to suck in enough water. WE SHALL SEE SOON IF THIS IS THE FIX. WISH ME LUCK!

[Wulphie]

That will do it for sure.

You need hose like this. . . http://www.westmarine.com/buy/shields-rubber--series-250-shieldsflex-ii-marine-water-exhaust-hose-with-wire-price-per-foot--P011_333_001_505

[SquamInboards]

Wow, that's very interesting. Totally plausible. You should have the wire-reinforced hoses for the intake, yeah. I guess no one here thought to even ask about that, myself included! It does seem that an inspection of all the hoses should have been on the radar for anyone looking at the issue previously. But then, even this guy looked at it for several hours before thinking of that.

I hope you're in the clear now and you can move on to enjoying the boat!

[cadunkle]

Totally makes sense. If the hose was not the right type or just old and deteriorated, it cna fail like that. On the exhaust side I've heard of them collapsing internally to restrict flow while appearing normal externally. Either way, raw water pump sucking through collapsed hose would definitely cause your issues. Now you could have had issues with warped heads and such too, resultant from previous overheating. If so that was fixing the symptoms of overheating, not the cause. Glad you've finally got it though! Wish mine had a 460!

[docdrs]

Please post a pic of the hose

[Awill10291]

http://s18.postimg.org/5xhlmukwl/download_20160403_141700.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/5xhlmukwl/)
http://s14.postimg.org/x1pux4h99/download_20160403_141656.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/x1pux4h99/)
http://s24.postimg.org/dhizvhqep/download_20160403_173735.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/dhizvhqep/)

Took it out. Funny story.... didn't over heat. Got to middle of Lake. LITERALLY water was pouring from doghouse!!! Water so cold idk if we would've made it. I was ready to go down withy Supra. Fortunately the engine never died and I got it to the boat lift. With all the water in the boat the 6000lb lift wouldn't pull it up. After bilging and a shop vac was able to get boat lifted up. Today we searched and dropped it back in to find the hole. Once I got down real low I found a whole completely underneath the engine a little smaller than a golf ball. I then found a a huge plug that screws in ironically in the cup holder. The first mechanic must have pulled that out when winterizing and never put it back. UNREAL. I would've never known there was a second plug. I got it in and all the water is out. No more leaks and it's running very cold if anything. Need to put new thermostat in. I'll be sure to post some sweet pics of the boat soon. Hopefully I'll be issue free for a while. Thanks for all the responses and help.

[SquamInboards]

WOW, I'm glad you're ok. Yeah there are some boats with 2 bilge plugs and that's very confusing. I'm sure you'll never forget again after that experience, but I always lift up the engine cover and check the bilge for leaks of any kind, launching any boat for any reason. You never know!

Sometimes people will put the plug(s) in a little plastic bag, then stick the key right through the bag so you really can't miss it.

Keep an eye on your oil, just to be sure you didn't get water up too high. Did the starter get wet?

Oh yeah and I'm glad it didn't overheat - yay! That's a sweet automotive hose you had there.

[Cusefan78]

Congrats on getting her running. You should head over and have a talk with that other mechanic. What he did is crazy.

[Awill10291]

How would the water have raised or affected my oil level? I had the oil changed recently. Unfortunately during that debacle when I closed the dog house, the oil checker tube and metal rod got all smashed by the dog house... The rod now doesn't go completely back down into the tube. Is this really hard to replace? Obviously I need it to check my oil, but also what oil pressure should my boat run at? 80 on the meter? Also IDK if the starter got wet. It starts right up so I'm guessing no right? Thank God.

[SquamInboards]

How would the water have raised or affected my oil level? I had the oil changed recently. Unfortunately during that debacle when I closed the dog house, the oil checker tube and metal rod got all smashed by the dog house... The rod now doesn't go completely back down into the tube. Is this really hard to replace? Obviously I need it to check my oil, but also what oil pressure should my boat run at? 80 on the meter? Also IDK if the starter got wet. It starts right up so I'm guessing no right? Thank God.

The reason I'm mentioning your oil is that if the water was high enough to get into the dipstick tube (it doesn't sound like it) then you may have water in the oil.

The starter is often mounted low enough on these engines (although I'm not that familiar with yours specifically) that they can get wet with a lot of water in the bilge. It won't necessarily have issues right away, but it may start to struggle if it got water inside. If you don't think the water got up that high, then no worries.

I suspect the dipstick tube is pretty easy to replace if you have good access to it with the cover up. As far as oil pressure, this is more about content than pressure or level. But I know mine sits right around 50psi at idle (according to the gauge). Someone else may have more info on that... maybe the 460 is a bit different? Again, my concern isn't related to pressure so much as whether any water got in.

I'm probably being overly cautious about the water intrusion, but it's something to be aware of. Get that dipstick tube working, and next time you go out, check the oil after running it, it should look... like oil ... and not like a milkshake.

[Cusefan78]

The dipstick tubes just pull out. Some of them have a bracket on the tube that is booted to the block. If it has one unbolt and pull.

[Awill10291]

http://s24.postimg.org/57vwxlkxt/download_20160409_143846.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/57vwxlkxt/)

GHETTO Fabulous Tower.

[Awill10291]

[img=http://s3.postimg.org/i2j4k5pf3/download_20160417_224027.jpg] (http://postimg.org/image/i2j4k5pf3/)

Got the wet suit out and burrr it was cold but good wakeboard session! The beast ran great. Needs some expert info though. So I put about 300lbs of weight/ballasts up under the closed bow. I had 6 people average weight of 180lbs on the boat. The boat seemed very very hard to get it to plane off at wake boarding speeds! Do I need MORE ballasts/weight in the front? Or maybe I need ballast in the back? At 18-23mph it sometimes felt like the front of the boat was straight up and down. Help please!

[Wulphie]

You need to be wakeboarding around 25mph.

[cadunkle]

Factory pitot speedometer? You may be going slower than you think, I'm not familiar with that hull but I'd imagine it should be easy to stay on plane by 20 MPH. Check it with GPS when the water is still to be sure it's accurate. If you have a paddlewheel or GPS already then maybe you have extra weight in the rear (wet foam) or too low RPM for speed.

[Awill10291]

I'm sure there is some wet foam. In theory, would more sandbags/rockbags/ballast under the front closed bow help the boat plane out? I've wakeboarded for many years and had a phone app to track the speedometer. We were going 22mph and the front of the boat was very high up in the air it seemed like. I need a HUGE wake in order to do flips/get massive air, so I do plan on adding tons of weigh all throughout the boat, but need enough weight maybe in the front in order for it to plane out at 20-24mph.

[wotan2525]

How is the wakeplate set? It makes a big difference.

[Jetlink]

I'm sure there is some wet foam. In theory, would more sandbags/rockbags/ballast under the front closed bow help the boat plane out? I've wakeboarded for many years and had a phone app to track the speedometer. We were going 22mph and the front of the boat was very high up in the air it seemed like. I need a HUGE wake in order to do flips/get massive air, so I do plan on adding tons of weigh all throughout the boat, but need enough weight maybe in the front in order for it to plane out at 20-24mph.

Why the use of solid ballast? I would use water ballast. What does the tach run when you are running at 20-24MPH? If you have a 1:1 trans, they should in theory even out or at least be close. The "Multi use wake plate" is also crucial to helping your boat attitude when running.

[Awill10291]

The reason for solid ballast is sand bags are cheap... I only put 4 of them under the bow. I did man up and bought 2140lbs of fat sacs on thehouse.com for just $300 with pump included. The problem will be where to put them ha. I may even have to strap one 800lb bag to the front ontop of the bow, or remove the ghetto wood tanks someone made underneathe the closed bow if I can figure that out. One 800lb bag should easily lay accross the back, and hopefully the 540lb one can go on the drivers side bench. You know what, I don't think my boat has a WAKE PLATE... If it doesn't I can't imagine just drilling into the back of the boat, is it hard to install one? is it necessary? I'll take a look tonight, but i don't remember seeing a wakeplate.

Also I'll be honest, none of my gauges work :(....... I use the phone for speedometer with an app. It's on my to do list though.

[Jetlink]

The wake plate is really important in helping the boat to plane out. Before you go do anything else to your boat, figure that out first. If it is not installed, the holes should all be back there still, just maybe filled in with a resin or something.

[wotan2525]

This thread is really something else. Wood ballast tanks? That tower?? No wake plate??

I need to just stay out......

[jtryon]

Got the wet suit out and burrr it was cold but good wakeboard session! The beast ran great. Needs some expert info though. So I put about 300lbs of weight/ballasts up under the closed bow. I had 6 people average weight of 180lbs on the boat. The boat seemed very very hard to get it to plane off at wake boarding speeds! Do I need MORE ballasts/weight in the front? Or maybe I need ballast in the back? At 18-23mph it sometimes felt like the front of the boat was straight up and down. Help please!
you need to re-prop. you likely have the stock 13"x13 prop which doesn't like weight. go down to at least a 13"x11.5, but 10.5 if you plan on running 2000lbs on the regular. i have a 10.5 (Acme model 913) and can still do 34-35mph if needed (you lose some top end) but the extra grunt of the lower-pitched prop helps a ton. i run about 2500 lbs for surfing and it does well as long as i don't also have a full boat of people. if you have a big crew plus ballast, you may want to go with the 9-pitch surf prop that Acme has (model 2101).

[NorCalPR]

This thread is really something else. Wood ballast tanks? That tower?? No wake plate??

I need to just stay out......
Don't forget the bag on top of the boat

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk

[Awill10291]

I think I might just strap one of the 800lb sacks ontop of the homeade tower that has no reinforcement.

[Wulphie]

I think I might just strap one of the 800lb sacks ontop of the homeade tower that has no reinforcement.

Nice! I like the way you think! Go next level and skip all the wake stuff. Tow a big kicker ramp behind the boat and just hit that sumbitch!

[Awill10291]

You're really giving me ideas. It'd be like a cable park, but pulling the kicker to me.

[Wulphie]

You're really giving me ideas. It'd be like a cable park, but pulling the kicker to me.

I am thinking a big bmx type spine on pontoons haha that would be epic

[Awill10291]

haha yess! Or a huge half pipe.

[Moor]

you need to re-prop. you likely have the stock 13"x13 prop which doesn't like weight. go down to at least a 13"x11.5, but 10.5 if you plan on running 2000lbs on the regular. i have a 10.5 (Acme model 913) and can still do 34-35mph if needed (you lose some top end) but the extra grunt of the lower-pitched prop helps a ton. i run about 2500 lbs for surfing and it does well as long as i don't also have a full boat of people. if you have a big crew plus ballast, you may want to go with the 9-pitch surf prop that Acme has (model 2101).

This is a good point. I had the stock 13x13 prop on my sunsport, and would load up 1800lb-2200lb regularly to surf. Even with the 454 it worked to pull all that weight, and took a long time to plane out if we were just cruising while weighted down. I switched to an ACME 541 and the boat literally jumps out of the hole now, weighted or not. Props make a HUGE difference.

[Awill10291]

http://s31.postimg.org/d24ccucuv/IMG_20160423_165824.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/d24ccucuv/)

LOL!http://i68.tinypic.com/f1fc06.jpg STRAIGHT NOSE DOVE and ended up draining this. Two 800lb bags on the side and 6 people on boat and I was ABLE TO SURF!

Boat does have wake plate!
http://s31.postimg.org/67hn41uvr/20160423_130253.jpg (http://postimg.org/image/67hn41uvr/)