Engine power or prop?

[SuperSam]

I have a 89 saltare with the 351 and was wondering if anyone else was familiar with the boat. I am having trouble planing out with 1800lbs or more in it can only get up to about 12-15 mph. My top speed with one person full tank of gas and 400lbs of sand in the back (which I never remove) and the wake plate all the way up is 29-30 does thay sound right with that engine? Also got 14x14 stock prop on 1x1.23 transmission... will I get better performance with a new prop that can get me more top end speed whole shot and help me plain out with weight? Or is the engine just not enough for that big of a boat and that weight? Sorry about the long post thanks for the help yall are awesome!

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[Salty87]

That's not a very common engine/tranny for a Saltare. Sunsports and others more commonly have that setup. Regardless, doesn't sound right to me. A well weighted Sunsport would be able to handle it easily so my guess is something's up. How long have you had the boat?...it's all tuned-up?...good gas, etc?...what rpms at wide open?

I'd give Acme a call about the prop. They handle these questions all day long. But, make sure it's running right first.

[Jetlink]

I know of at least one other older Salt that has the 351W as the engine package in it and it does just fine keeping up with all the other Supras that run at the Tennessee reunion. Something is up here. Is this speed based of the air guide speedos or have you checked it against a GPS? Need a little more history here now that we understand your issue/complaint.

[CJD]

If it is bogging with low rpm, then your engine is weak, or you have too much prop. If the rpm is up, but the boat is not moving, you have too small a prop or cavitation.

[SuperSam]

Speed is mesured by airguide speedo but it is clear when weighted the boat is not planing out replaced points, coil, ballast resistor, cap, rotor, condenser and spark plugs, fuel filter is new and carb has been rebuilt rpms at wot is 4100 if I remember correctly and I cant remember what the rpms were when weighted and not planing but it wasnt bogging down just felt like the engine was at full power and not pushing the boat fast enough but I will weight her down and check the rpms tonight or next time im out previously had bogging issues due to carb and ignition system but with the replacement of most of the parts no longer bogs down... I have had the boat up to 35 according to the airguide speedos in the past but that was pre putting 400lbs of sand in it which stays permanently so im assuming that is causing the loss of the 5mph on my top end all advice is appreciated!

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[Cusefan78]

Something isn't right that boat should be getting more then that you may want to try moving the weight around is the carb adjusted properly. Also I agree call acme or nettles about the prop.

[CJD]

WOT rpm of 4100 is to low. That points to having to much prop. If you start with too much and then load the boat, it's not going to work well. So you need less pitch and/or less diameter. An empty boat should see just north of 5000rpm.

[SuperSam]

Went out tonight weighted down the boat with about 1200lbs all in the back and on the sides of the engine doghouse wot 29mph at about 4200rpms didnt take to long to plane out... so either another 800 really drops the performance of the boat or there was something up that day...I usually weigh down anything over 1200 with people weight and now that it is in the low 60s in mn people aren't as excited to go out lol so im thinking that maybe the answer is the prop so I will call and talk to some prop manufacturers and see what they say about it

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[CJD]

I've been thinking...

I don't think I have ever tried to check the top end with a full ballast load...and don't really see the point. I mean, you'll be surfing at 11, and wake boarding at 18. The point of ballast is to go slow and carry big wake. You may be experimenting with an area of the envelope you don't really care about.

[SuperSam]

Well obviously... the point was I couldn't get the boat planed with ballast to wakeboard speed couldnt get over 15 with 2000lbs not that I need to have speed with ballast just 23mph is what I need

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[SuperSam]

So was going through my ignition system since out of the blue I started getting hesitations/misfires and found that my brand new set of points seemed off hooked them up to the dwell meter and they had dropped to 25 degrees so I readjust them up to 31 and then the dwell meter starts jumping around between 31 and 25 watched it bounce around until I put it in gear and took off up to speed then the dwell locked in at 31degrees I am suspect what it means if the degree of dwell was bouncing around and if anyone has any experience with this. Also if that could be the reason the points moved in the first place.

[Moor]

So was going through my ignition system since out of the blue I started getting hesitations/misfires and found that my brand new set of points seemed off hooked them up to the dwell meter and they had dropped to 25 degrees so I readjust them up to 31 and then the dwell meter starts jumping around between 31 and 25 watched it bounce around until I put it in gear and took off up to speed then the dwell locked in at 31degrees I am suspect what it means if the degree of dwell was bouncing around and if anyone has any experience with this. Also if that could be the reason the points moved in the first place.

Your jumping dwell issue can be caused by several issues. First thing that comes to mind, since the dwell is bouncing around at idle, but not under load, is a stretched timing chain. Another thing to check is worn out distributor. If the cam inside the distributor that mechanically opens and closes the point has any rotational play, this can cause your dwell to move around, this is caused by worn out distributor shaft bushings. Another possibility id the points hold down screws are not tight enough, but i doubt this is the cause, since the points would more than likely be stuck closed if the screws were too lose.

Have you tried ditching the dwell meter and adjusting the points with a feeler gauge? set them to .016"-.018" and see if that makes any difference.

[SuperSam]

Your jumping dwell issue can be caused by several issues. First thing that comes to mind, since the dwell is bouncing around at idle, but not under load, is a stretched timing chain. Another thing to check is worn out distributor. If the cam inside the distributor that mechanically opens and closes the point has any rotational play, this can cause your dwell to move around, this is caused by worn out distributor shaft bushings. Another possibility id the points hold down screws are not tight enough, but i doubt this is the cause, since the points would more than likely be stuck closed if the screws were too lose.

Have you tried ditching the dwell meter and adjusting the points with a feeler gauge? set them to .016"-.018" and see if that makes any difference.

Originally put points in with a feeler gauge boat ran very very poorly wouldn't run smoothly. Now it's running smoothly at 31 degrees but occasionally I will get a hiccup or misfire when driving but then usually it might happen 1-3 times and then will not happen again the rest of the day. Those hiccups seem to correspond with the bounces in the dwell meter in my opinion

[Moor]

Originally put points in with a feeler gauge boat ran very very poorly wouldn't run smoothly. Now it's running smoothly at 31 degrees but occasionally I will get a hiccup or misfire when driving but then usually it might happen 1-3 times and then will not happen again the rest of the day. Those hiccups seem to correspond with the bounces in the dwell meter in my opinion

When the engine hiccups does it backfire or just bog down? If you have a timing light, its easy to check for a worn chain. Hook up a timing light and check the timing on the engine. if the timing mark bounces around, then you probably have a stretched chain, which could also account for your 4100rpm max at WOT. How many hours are on this engine?

[SuperSam]

When the engine hiccups does it backfire or just bog down? If you have a timing light, its easy to check for a worn chain. Hook up a timing light and check the timing on the engine. if the timing mark bounces around, then you probably have a stretched chain, which could also account for your 4100rpm max at WOT. How many hours are on this engine?
little bit of both but more of just a misfire/small backfire... Have a light and have checked the timing many times I did notice it jumping around a bit acouple degress here and there I assumed that was natural... What is the best way to fix the timing chain? Also engine has 1400 hours on it

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[chris young]

Replace it and the gears while you're in there. I haven't done mine yet, but I did do one on my AMC Hornet (no Joke) when I was 17, and it was a doddle. The hardest part will be getting all the stuff off so you can get at it. That would be the point when I wish I could get the pylon out.

[Moor]

little bit of both but more of just a misfire/small backfire... Have a light and have checked the timing many times I did notice it jumping around a bit acouple degress here and there I assumed that was natural... What is the best way to fix the timing chain? Also engine has 1400 hours on it

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The only way to fix a stretched timing chain is to replace it, along with the gears as Chris suggested. At 1400 hours its quite possible that your chain is worn out. Never done one on a ford motor, but its pretty simple on a chevy, and its basically the same procedure. Do your engine a favor, if you end up replacing the chain and gears, buy a good double roller timing chain, they are far less pron to chain stretch and more suited for the RPM's that a marine engine sees.

[Cusefan78]

Totally agree. I have done one on a 302 when I was in college. They aren't bad to change. Pull off all the front pulleys and water pump. Then just take the timing cover off. Simple as that. Chris I don't really think the pylon would be in your way all that much. Especially if you remove the doghouse base.

[Salty87]

You'll prob be surprised at how flimsy the OEM chain/gear is. Swapped mine out many years ago when replacing front main seal due to oil leak. When we saw the timing chain it was a no brainer. Wasn't hard at all esp with air tools a buddy had.

[chris young]

Chris I don't really think the pylon would be in your way all that much. Especially if you remove the doghouse base.

I pulled the harmonic balancer last year so I could rebuild it (went very well I might add) so I have worked on the front, and to be fair, it's much easier to do than on a motor mounted behind a rad but, the pylon was always a bit in the way. There is no doghouse base in my boat so I don't need to do that. In regards to the OP, you will need a puller to get the balancer off. Other than that it's just bolts and gaskets. The one thing that can mess you up is the way the gasket fits to the timing chain cover, as the bottom of the chain cover mates with the oil pan, and if you're not dropping the pan you need to be careful not to damage that gasket.

[SuperSam]

Thanks for all the advice I will most likely be taking this project on this winter since I think I can still ride the boat for the end of the season with a couple of hiccups here and there so I will be probably be returning to this for help when I get started!

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[wotan2525]

Stretched timing chain seems possible but I wouldn't immediately rule out your dizzy. If this was me? I'd toss the points and put in an electronic dizzy (oh wait.... that's exactly what I did in MY boat.) No matter what your boat will run better, be easier to start and will require less fiddling with it. This and a clean carburetor is how I start every project.

Summit and everyone else sell the Pertronix unit for $250. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FlameThrower-Ignitor-II-Chevy-350-454-Billet-Marine-Distributor-Black-Socket-Cap-/330820453339?hash=item4d066f83db&vxp=mtr

Now, it's your call how comfortable you are running an auto dizzy in a marine application (yes, sometimes things go boom, but probably not at the top of the engine.) Me? I live dangerously. Knock on wood.

I've had great luck with these chinese MSD knock-offs. http://kmjperformance.com/sbc-bbc-chevy-hei-distributor-black-cap-65k-volt-coil-350-454-with-arp-stud-kit-34519.html

[Moor]

Stretched timing chain seems possible but I wouldn't immediately rule out your dizzy. If this was me? I'd toss the points and put in an electronic dizzy (oh wait.... that's exactly what I did in MY boat.) No matter what your boat will run better, be easier to start and will require less fiddling with it. This and a clean carburetor is how I start every project.

Summit and everyone else sell the Pertronix unit for $250. http://www.ebay.com/itm/FlameThrower-Ignitor-II-Chevy-350-454-Billet-Marine-Distributor-Black-Socket-Cap-/330820453339?hash=item4d066f83db&vxp=mtr

Now, it's your call how comfortable you are running an auto dizzy in a marine application (yes, sometimes things go boom, but probably not at the top of the engine.) Me? I live dangerously. Knock on wood.

I've had great luck with these chinese MSD knock-offs. http://kmjperformance.com/sbc-bbc-chevy-hei-distributor-black-cap-65k-volt-coil-350-454-with-arp-stud-kit-34519.html

This is a solid thought process in my mind. Points are garbage, even when new. There's a reason they were phased out for electronic ignition systems, and its one of the best upgrades on an older boat imo. Several aftermarket companies make an electronic points conversion kit, if you don't want to swap out the entire dizzy to an electronic unit. A good clean carb is a necessity. your going to want to make sure these two items are up to snuff, even if its not the timing chain causing your troubles.