Rudder replacement

[cadunkle]

It's dinally time to pull the trigger on replacing my old sloppy rudder. Lots of play in it wiggling from the bottom and hard steering at speed. Pulled it apart to see what I had to work with, was hoping for a sleeved rebuildable port but that is not the case.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050202.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050204.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050212.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050214.jpg

Worn out, could repack but it would still be sloppy. This is a fairly large rudder on a Saltare, I believe about 12" x 7". I was concerned about handling issues going with the small rudder SkiDIM sells and has been commonly used here. I did some research and found the OJ 162 rudder was highly regarded by the Mastercraft guys as an upgrade over the wee little factor rudder that comes on them, which looks like the SkiDIM (Marine Hardware?) rudder. OJ does not make or sell rudders anymore. Rumor mill had it that MC used the same or similar rudder from the same supplier. Couldn't find dimensions on confirmation if keyed for port steering, but took a chance on ordering the MC 200178 rudder (previously MC PN 200162) along with the 200172 rudder port and a rudder key PN 204400.

[cadunkle]

This is indeed a larger rudder as I hoped. It is slightly taller and 1"-2" longer. The bolt pattern on the port measures the same approx 2.75" as the Supra rudder. I'm hoping for a tight smooth steering rudder and at least the same low speed maneuverability as the original. The rudder port has a plastic sleeve and a plastic bushing for the top and bottom and an o-ring at the top. It explicitly states no petroleum based lubed. What type of lubricant should I use, if any? Thinking I should at least lubricate the oring, but maybe water is sufficient for the sleeve to rudder post. I plan to use 4200 to seal the port to the hull, is this sufficient or should I use 5200? Looks like silicone is what's currently sealing the old port.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050216.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050217.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050221.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050225.jpg

[cadunkle]

Also, is there any need or reason to reinstall that piece of plywood over the rudder that the gas tank rests on? I was thinking of just cutting a strip off each side to use as a spacer between the stringers and tank.

[leetudor]

I always use 3M 4000 on underwater gear, what if you need to remove it again?

[cadunkle]

4200 it is, should be adequate considering it's through bolted.

I pulled the old rudder port off today, which came off without too much of a fight. The new port is larger in diameter in the middle, by a very small amount. It has a larger round transition from flat to vertical though. I used 40 grit sandpaper on a cylinder hone (3 leg spring type) to enlarge the hole. I them used a cone shaped stone in a die grinder to chamfer the hole so the new port sits flush on the hull. I also had to grind a small relief on the back side of the new port on the outside edge at the corners so it would clear the hull.

I just need to clean up the last bits of old sealant on the port, it's tough to get at it where it's rounded at the edges of the recessed area for the rudder port. Tedious for sure. I also need to pick up some stainless nuts as the original nuts are rusty. Any preference for nylocks or lock washers for this application? I'll pick up fasteners tomorrow and hopefully get a second pair of hands to assist with installing the port.

For reference, I know others were looking for hex key bolts to use for the underwater through bolts in various places. I ordered these bolts last year when I resealed the swim platform brackets. They are a direct replacement for both swim platform and rudder port bolts that are originally flat head. So much nicer to install.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050237.jpg

Comparison of the rudders... It appears they may be about the same surface area, just in slightly different areas. I expect about the same performance as original, but will report once water tested.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050231.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050227.jpg

[cadunkle]

And a comparison from the MC site of this rudder vs what I believe is the Marine Hardware / SkiDIM rudder...

http://mccollister.info/ruddercomp1.jpg

[wotan2525]

Looks like you've got this figured out. What's the condition/life of your steering cable? That and the helm probably make a bigger difference in the feel and smoothness of the rudder operation than the port does.

[cadunkle]

Helm and cable are serviceable but really should be replaced too. I did not know what length cable I needed so didn't do that as well. Anyone know steering cable length for a Saltare?

[wotan2525]

Helm and cable are serviceable but really should be replaced too. I did not know what length cable I needed so didn't do that as well. Anyone know steering cable length for a Saltare?

18ft. SkiDim #2418

[leetudor]

I want to uprgrade my steering to Rack & Pinion.

[cadunkle]

Ordered the UFlex Rotech helm with 18' cable... For a little more time and money may as well be done with steering. Also need to check the clamp block for any slop.

[cadunkle]

I got the rudder port installed tonight. Took a little longer than I hoped as I didn't have an extra pair of hands so had to keep crawling under boat then climbing in it. Seems to fit fine. The new port is a little taller which concerned me a bit that the mount for the block may not be tall enough, but at a glance it seems to fit without any extreme angles. I'll see once it's attached to the cable what the range of motion is. New helm and cable should be in tomorrow so I hope to get it installed to water test this weekend. Looking forward to easy tight steering and good docking manners. Any tips on helm and cable replacement would be appreciated...

[tstruth]

I just finished doing the same replacement with the rudder. I had to drill out a 2inch hole. When I reinstalled the gas tank it was sitting on top of the rudder assembly. It was a little taller than the previous. I placed one 1/2 in plywood boards under the left and right side of the tank. That's all it needed for clearance. I was hoping this was going to free up the wheel but looks like I will have to do the cable also. I removed all the water logged stuffing from the back, I spray foamed it after it was all dried and when i put her in the water the swim platform was raised up an inch out of the water. Lets just hope she remains dry. I believe the old rudder was letting the water in.

[croddy]

I just finished doing the same replacement with the rudder. I had to drill out a 2inch hole. When I reinstalled the gas tank it was sitting on top of the rudder assembly. It was a little taller than the previous. I placed one 1/2 in plywood boards under the left and right side of the tank. That's all it needed for clearance. I was hoping this was going to free up the wheel but looks like I will have to do the cable also. I removed all the water logged stuffing from the back, I spray foamed it after it was all dried and when i put her in the water the swim platform was raised up an inch out of the water. Lets just hope she remains dry. I believe the old rudder was letting the water in.

I am curious how you got the gas tank out of the Comp. Not a lot of room to work with! Might be doing this project soon.:-?

[tstruth]

It was a little tricky. Be sure to drain all the gas first for you have to tip it to get the hose from the fill spout out. I had to do a little cutting to the side panel to get too the clamps that hold the hose on to the spout. Once the clamps where loose I tilted it up and she slid out. I disconnected the overflow hose and the vent hose and it came right out. I was tempted to keep going with the rest of the floor but the kids wanted the boat back in the water.

[croddy]

It was a little tricky. Be sure to drain all the gas first for you have to tip it to get the hose from the fill spout out. I had to do a little cutting to the side panel to get too the clamps that hold the hose on to the spout. Once the clamps where loose I tilted it up and she slid out. I disconnected the overflow hose and the vent hose and it came right out. I was tempted to keep going with the rest of the floor but the kids wanted the boat back in the water.

So. Just to be clear, you cut into the ski locker tray above the fuel tank to get access to the filler tube and over flow tube. Thanks!

[tstruth]

Just the filler tube. It was the only way I could get to the three long bolts that hold down the metal connector that secures the gas cap. You will need to disconnect that from the filler hose. I didn't have to cut in to much. Just enough to get my hand in there. The overflow hose is on the other side. You should have enough hose to slide the tank out and disconnect.

[cadunkle]

Rudder is in. Plenty of clearance above the rudder to the tank, I'd guess the stirngers are taller on a Saltare vs a Comp. New UFlex cable is installed. Had to adjust the tube to get equal turns each way and got pretty lucky and threading the cable into the helm, seems about centered. The UFlex Rotech helm is a very different style so far as construction and mounting. I did not want to use the new helm bezel/surround part that came with the UFlex as it is cheap plastic vs the original Teleflex metal piece. The Uflex also would mount the wheel appreciably farther out from the dash. Wasn't sure how I felt about that. I drilled an extra hole in the bracket for the helm, mounted it on the backside of the dash as opposed to teh front as instructions specify, and used the original metal Teleflex helm surround. Unfortuantely this places the wheel about .1" too close to the dash to be tightened on the taper without contacting the helm surround. I was debating on filing the back of the wheel vs modifying the bracket or dash. The dash is 1" thick, I will remove about .2" from the back side of the dash until the wheel will seat on the shaft without contact to the helm surround. Probably blast and paint the helm surround and wheel center as well while it's apart. Was coming down the home stretch but thunder and lightning rolled in, hail, and now a monsoon... Hopefully it passes soon and I can finish. Was hoping to water test tomorrow.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050242.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050240.jpg

[cadunkle]

The monsoon finally stopped. Got the steering wheel center and helm surround blasted and painted. Hopefully I'll get it back together tomorrow and the weather and tides align such that I can water test.

Picture of original rudder for comparison:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/IMG-20130118-00212.jpg

[cadunkle]

Wrapped it up earlier today but didn't feel like fighting with the weekend clowns this afternoon so no water test yet. Small amount of slack in the system, which I believe if from the block. I'll replace that at some point.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/P1050246.jpg

[cadunkle]

Water tested today. Bilge stayed dry, just a very small amount of water from whatever the pump couldn't get out after hosing it out. Between the new rudder and resealing the transom brackets and hardware last year I think I may finally have a dry bilge. I'll find out next month when it sits in the water for a few weeks.

At speed steering is easy and holds straight. I think the additional area forward of the rudder post assists with turning once you begin to turn it. Slightly harder steering to the right. At idle around the dock it steers at least as well as the original rudder. It's been since last summer since I drove it, so I may be a little fuzzy on that. I think it actually is a bit more responsive with the wheel turned full lock either way, but it's certainly no worse. Glad I spent the extra time and money to figure this out instead of buying the small rudder most go with. I'm sure it's fine on a Comp or Mariah, but I recall reading some who used it on a Saltare reported handling around the docks a bit sluggish after the change.

[scottschmitt]

Well done. Enjoy the dry bilge.