Rudder play ? How much is too much ?

[lively]

I replaced the seals and oring and Emory clothed the rudder shaft and reinstalled and pumped up with grease but I still have play in rudder . Is there a wear bushing that's required ? Cause something don't add up .


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[roosm]

What kind of play?

I have had two kinds. 1) I could wiggle the rudder from side to side and fore and aft. This issue turned out to be the rudder box that was loose. Bad (non stainless) hardware and saltwater resulted in a small catastrophe. 2) The I could turn/rotate the rudder a few degrees without rotating the steering wheel. This turned out to be the pin (cotter pin?), like the ones you have in the propellers, that was worn.

I would say none or very little (not noticeable) otherwise. Well at least for my Launch SSV from 2001.

[lively]

I have more side to side movement the router box is in good condition and as well as the rotor shaft and I just replace the seals in the O-ring but I just don't understand if they're supposed to be wear sleeve , my style writer box has the two oil seals and the lower has the oring , I was reading up on some Internet knowledge and they're supposed to be no play little to none . I guess I need to measure the ID and OD


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[leetudor]

I have more side to side movement the router box is in good condition and as well as the rotor shaft and I just replace the seals in the O-ring but I just don't understand if they're supposed to be wear sleeve , my style writer box has the two oil seals and the lower has the oring , I was reading up on some Internet knowledge and they're supposed to be no play little to none . I guess I need to measure the ID and OD


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Don't you just love auto correct! ;)

[lively]

Lol my bad that was Siri . "My style rudder box "


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[cadunkle]

Some rudder boxes have a plastic or teflon wear sleeve that can be replaced, others do not and when they get loose the rudder and port must be replaced as they are both likely worn since they are both made of the same meterial.

Slop in mine was getting pretty bad so I replaced it last year. I recommend going with the Mastercraft rudder and port, wear sleeves and washers are replaceable and the rudder has similar dimensions as the original rudder.

https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?18402-Rudder-replacement

[lively]

I mean , I can replace it but what's too much ? Cause the rudder shaft had wear rings from the 2 oil seals and the o ring , I just to some cloth and smoothed it out and re installed . I guess I'll look at getting a replacement skidim is kinda high . Like 450$ but I still need to measure it out


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[cadunkle]

Too much for me was when it started getting more difficult to held a precise straight line and steering effort increased at speed, and the leak got bad enough to motivate me. Mine was a packing gland style. I'd imagine too much slop in a seal style could prematurely wear or damage the seals.

FWIW the big MC rudder cost me $716 all said and done, plus $131 for a new helm, cable, and misc. bits. Worth it to have a dry bilge and smooth, precise, easy steering.

[cadunkle]

Just ordered a clamp block, real cheap for NOS. Two more left... http://www.ebay.com/itm/201839466139

[lively]

Just ordered a clamp block, real cheap for NOS. Two more left... http://www.ebay.com/itm/201839466139

What is that ? I have a tilt tube on mine . Prob gonna grab the rudder assy from skidim . I've been looking around . I got 1/4" walk on rudder shaft now


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[lively]

Just ordered a clamp block, real cheap for NOS. Two more left... http://www.ebay.com/itm/201839466139

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/ad0e6aab723aa77dc95530ff7ccc3b9c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/ca37a506454e65e7d4161635038ba2cb.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170331/ece8b5ce35b7ad079400636a899263e1.jpg

What about this ? I'm gonna measure mine tomorrow . Cause this looks promising !



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[cadunkle]

What is that ? I have a tilt tube on mine . Prob gonna grab the rudder assy from skidim . I've been looking around . I got 1/4" walk on rudder shaft now

That is the block that bolts to the hull (in our case to the metal plate backing for the strut) and clamps on the tube the rudder end of the steering cable runs through. The ball and socket get worn over time and have slop in the assembly, allowing free play in the steering wheel before the rudder turns. This part should be greased periodically, some have grease fittings others don't.

Also that rudder you posted is set up for a starboard tiller, our boats have the tiller arm on the port side. You could use that rudder but you would need to add a slot for the woodruff key on the opposite side as the existing slot. Technically you could move the bilge vent tube to the port side, route the steering cable appropriately and switch the cable in the helm for opposite direction steering but I would sooner take it to a machine shop and have them match the keyway on the opposite side. $300 is a good price for a rudder, port, and tiller arm... But I wouldn't switch to a smaller rudder on my Saltare. May or may not be an issue for a Sunsport.

[cadunkle]

Clamp block:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/de8640ed-8dfe-4116-a903-c8b7da4dc647.jpg

[lively]

Clamp block:

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o234/cadunkle/Supra%20Saltare/de8640ed-8dfe-4116-a903-c8b7da4dc647.jpg

Yeah I have a tilt tube on mine , not a clamp block I'll take pics and measure my rudder when I get off work today .


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[korey]

almost EVERY old inboard I've touched needed a clamp block. Most need a cable too.

[lively]

almost EVERY old inboard I've touched needed a clamp block. Most need a cable too.

Right , and I have a tilt tube assy , with rotary teleflex


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[lively]

That is the block that bolts to the hull (in our case to the metal plate backing for the strut) and clamps on the tube the rudder end of the steering cable runs through. The ball and socket get worn over time and have slop in the assembly, allowing free play in the steering wheel before the rudder turns. This part should be greased periodically, some have grease fittings others don't.

Also that rudder you posted is set up for a starboard tiller, our boats have the tiller arm on the port side. You could use that rudder but you would need to add a slot for the woodruff key on the opposite side as the existing slot. Technically you could move the bilge vent tube to the port side, route the steering cable appropriately and switch the cable in the helm for opposite direction steering but I would sooner take it to a machine shop and have them match the keyway on the opposite side. $300 is a good price for a rudder, port, and tiller arm... But I wouldn't switch to a smaller rudder on my Saltare. May or may not be an issue for a Sunsport.

Dunk , I confirmed that the measurements on my rudder are the same , 7-1/2 x 12-1/2 and it's a 1" shaft , what do you think if I machine a new key , would that have some stress factors on the shaft or maybe just cut the arm as well to have 2 keys one for each side ? Any thoughts


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[cadunkle]

Should be no stress or fatigue issues cutting a new keyway in the rudder on the opposite side, many come with a keyway on each side to allow for either installation.

[lively]

Should be no stress or fatigue issues cutting a new keyway in the rudder on the opposite side, many come with a keyway on each side to allow for either installation.

That's what I'll do then , I'm gonna order it Monday and I have a machine shop down the road too . I guess I gotta pull the gas tank again lol


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[lively]

Should be no stress or fatigue issues cutting a new keyway in the rudder on the opposite side, many come with a keyway on each side to allow for either installation.

Problem I see with this rudder is the one I have goes through the bottom of the hull and the OD is like 1.630" and the one I'm going to buy looks like 2" OD , the flange is still 4x4 @ 3" on center but trying to figure out how to use a hole saw without a pilot to cut the hole . Maybe screw a piece of wood on the inside for pilot ?




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[cadunkle]

The new MC rudder port I used was also bigger on the OD of the tube. I was originally planning to bolt plywood to the hull, mark center, and drill appropriate size with a hole saw. Turns out it was not really much bigger. I used a small 3 stone cylinder hone on a drill with 40 or 80 grit sandpaper wrapped around it. Didn't take too long to open up the hole and I was able to sneak up on it for a snug fit.

[lively]

The new MC rudder port I used was also bigger on the OD of the tube. I was originally planning to bolt plywood to the hull, mark center, and drill appropriate size with a hole saw. Turns out it was not really much bigger. I used a small 3 stone cylinder hone on a drill with 40 or 80 grit sandpaper wrapped around it. Didn't take too long to open up the hole and I was able to sneak up on it for a snug fit.

Sweet , I have a ball stone I was thinking of using , I contacted machine shop today and said he could have it done in a hour . Still checking push rod length on the engine and then I should be ready to install this thing .


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[lively]

I got the rudder today , looks good , 1.630 ID is the hole from the boat and the rudder post is 2.050 OD , so little over a 1/4" , but my issue is if I machine the key on the opposite side I won't have that much material for holding . So I think I have it welded and then machined back to the opposite side . Dropping it off tomorrow and the local machine shop . Shouldn't be to complicated to do . I'll update when it comes back . Any thoughts comments


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[lively]

Second thought I may just have them fab up a different tiller arm and leave the shaft alone . That seems easiest option but I'll leave that up to the machinist to decide on tooling and such


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[lively]

Dropped it off , he is going to weld up the shaft and make it happen for the opposite side . Said should take a couple hours .


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[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/22862333b311a9fc55e4a2623d4a6d92.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/cc4c87c71538fd6cdd721b3c123fe4c2.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/969c606a1f3307870fe8f8d886fd89c0.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/575640726dda68829a1b653271b54b81.jpg


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[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170408/ea31be636901b6c806b4085f5d1c1ecb.jpg


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[luciussol]

What I've done before to increase the size of a hole is place a hole saw that matches the existing hole inside the size that you need and use it as a guide. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/7e3aaa7f1608c84e7fa11e5a6366f167.jpg


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[lively]

What I've done before to increase the size of a hole is place a hole saw that matches the existing hole inside the size that you need and use it as a guide. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170409/7e3aaa7f1608c84e7fa11e5a6366f167.jpg


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Yeah the existing hole was 1.630 on the calipers and 1-1/2 was too small . So I just made that up to enlarge the hole to 2" and it worked out great


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[lively]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/a5fa098e74f4bea52c88396badae17d3.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/7bb1b361f7d533e90a069cb703b49cac.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170426/e7f74f1823886338003e2cfb7051a487.jpg. I got the rudder in tonight , I had to re position the tilt tube for the steering to make a full left turn ,the old original rudder was "clocked" at like 1 o'clock and this one was done at 3 o'clock , not a big deal , but if I was to do it again I would have had the machinist change the angle . But best yet there is no slop ! And it turns beautiful ! My 4 yr old had been breaking it in for about 30 min now lol . All in all $340.00 rudder $100.00 machine shop fee .


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