Battery issues?

[daniel.j.grossheim]

So last year I had a few issues starting my boat from a drained battery. I replaced the battery half way through the season last year and am seeming to have the same issue already this year. I took the battery out during winter and put it on a charger inside about halfway through winter.

Starts up real nice when I take it out fresh off the charger, but if we stop and use the radio or a blower at all it will have troubles starting. Last weekend, stopped and sat for about a half an hour, tried to start it up and it turned over but seemed to kill the battery within seconds. we were stuck in the middle of the lake for about ten minutes. We sat and waited a bit, sprayed some starter fluid in to give it a little help, fearing the battery was dead, and tried it one more time and she finally turned over again and started right up.

The boat is a stock 1989 ts6m with 830 hours. Had it into the shop this spring for an annual spring start up and they didn't seem to have any concerns. I'm thinking about adding a second battery with a Perko battery selector, has anyone done that? Or is there anything else I should look at before doing that? Any input would be appreciated.


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[Okryan]

Have you checked the voltage of the battery, and what type of battery did you purchase?


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[CJD]

Check the voltage with the engine running. It should be at least 13.4volts. If below that, your boat is not charging the battery. If the voltage is up, then check and clean your battery connections at both ends. After that it means your new battery is bad. At least it should be under warranty!?

[daniel.j.grossheim]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170603/bf9459fd1c6673569968a84af5033a87.jpg

Yep looks like the battery isn't being charged fully. The battery is running at 12.68 after last weekend, I did not throw it on a charger yet in hopes of solving this problem. I'm going to go get the battery swapped out, how can I check to make sure the boat is charging it correctly? Does it need a new alternator?


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[CJD]

That is normal for a battery sitting without being charged. It also means it has been charged recently. Check it with the engine running to see how the alternator is doing. It should be in excess of 13.4 volts with the engine running. Again...12.6 engine off, no charger...13.4+ with engine running.

[NorCalPR]

The battery is probably sulfated. If it has sat with a low charge for a while, or with a low water level, itll happen.

Basically a sulfate layer builds on the plates. What happens is the voltage looks normal, and you may think its charged, but the capacity is not there.

"When hard sulfate is present, the battery shows a false voltage, higher than it's true voltage, fooling the voltage regulator into thinking that the battery is fully charged. This causes the charger to prematurely lower it's current output, leaving the battery discharged. Charging at a higher than normal voltage and low current may be necessary to break down the hardened sulfate."

And

"
Hardened sulfate also forms in a battery that is constantly being cycled in the middle of its capacity range (somewhere between 80% charged and 80% discharged), and is never recharged to 100%. Over time, a portion of the plate's active materials turns into hard sulfate. If the battery is continually cycled in this manner, it will lose more and more of its capacity until it no longer has enough capacity to perform the task for which it was intended. An equalizing charge, applied routinely every three to four weeks, should prevent the sulfate from hardening."
http://support.rollsbattery.com/support/solutions/articles/5964-battery-sulfation

If your alternator wasnt working, after you initially start it the boat would have died within 10 minutes or so. Since ot sounds like its fine when its running, but the battery d8es quick when its off leads me to believe its not your alternator, its just a weak battery...

You may be able to save it. If not, get a new one and invest in a quality charger/maintainer. I just bought a genius 3500 charger for my truck (and boat in the winter) and itll maintain the battery indefinitely.


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[daniel.j.grossheim]

So I took the battery out and brought it to advanced auto store and it checked out to be good. Any ideas of what could have caused it to not start after a few seconds of trying? It stopped and would not turn over, we waited about ten minutes and tried it again and it started right up. Added some starter fluid to give it some extra juice on the second try.

Could it be a starter that is going bad? Any thoughts?


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[NorCalPR]

Sso im confused. When you say it started right up, why did you add starter fluid? Shouldnt need any...


Could be the relay contacts on the starter. Next time it doesnt start, tap on the starter with a hammer or a wrench whilw you have someone turning the key...


Could also be the neutral switch...

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[daniel.j.grossheim]

I added starter fluid cause it was the first time out for the season, and just felt that the battery almost died so sprayed a bit in just to ensure it would start easy, it probably didn't need it.

Will try that next time to see if it helps, it turns over but then if it doesn't start right away the starter seems to slow down.

What do you mean about neutral switch? Are you thinking that if it's pushed it, it may not be mechanically pushed in?

I appreciate all of the help from everyone.


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[roosm]

Have you disconnected and cleaned both positive and negative (ground) cables for the battery?
If they look corroded consider replacing them.
I normally get these kind of issues when the connections are not really good.
Sometimes you can get around that with a really fresh battery. Sometimes it just works when first installing the battery, but then the loose/dirty connections corrode further when running the boat and at the end of the day it doesn't start.

It might also be a bad ground connection from the starter to the engine. Though more unlikely. I have had issues that cleared right up when I removed the starter and cleaned the surface of the starter that should ground to the engine block.

Mike

[NorCalPR]

I added starter fluid cause it was the first time out for the season, and just felt that the battery almost died so sprayed a bit in just to ensure it would start easy, it probably didn't need it.

Will try that next time to see if it helps, it turns over but then if it doesn't start right away the starter seems to slow down.

What do you mean about neutral switch? Are you thinking that if it's pushed it, it may not be mechanically pushed in?

I appreciate all of the help from everyone.


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Still sounds like a battery issue to me. I never really trust the part store testers...

Test it with a knoen good battery, like from your tow vehicle.

You should be able to crank in 10 second bursts for at least a minute if the battery is good.

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[daniel.j.grossheim]

Battery was testing good and the store I bought it from as well. They were still willing to replace it, got a new one in the boat and will test it out this weekend with temperatures expected to be in the 90's


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[daniel.j.grossheim]

Been doing some other research, when we couldn't get it started it would not even turn over. This is typically cause by a bad starter solenoid possibly. I have not found too much advice about how to fix the problem or diagnose it? Another option it could be would be loose wiring to the neutral switch like was earlier mentioned.


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[daniel.j.grossheim]

So, had it happen one more time on the wedding day. Thankfully it was after the ceremony getting the boat back to the trailer. Hooked the boat up to the charger and put the charger in start mode and the boat started right up. I need to check the voltage off my alternator next time I go out, but I think it's good. Battery is at 12.72 volts cold, need to check it while running in a few locations like I previously mentioned to rule out the alternator. However to make sure I don't sit empty on the water I'm installing a second battery and switch. The goodies are starting to come in, any advice from someone that's tackled this project before?

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/79765f97ffc320fa66e76da7791d39b7.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170628/450fe040356e59445f11f5b648e80e66.jpg


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[SquamInboards]

One thing on a dual battery setup is that it's nice to have one battery be a deep cycle. That's the one you can switch to when you're floating, playing music, running the battery down. Starting batteries don't love being run down like that; the deep cycle is much more resilient to partial discharge cycles.

[daniel.j.grossheim]

Thanks for the advice squamInboards. I have a deep cycle on it right now, I plan to switch the new one for the starter and put the deep cycle on the stereo and accessories. Any other ideas before I start?


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[Salty87]

Someone mentioned contacts and cables. That's the first place to start. Clean the contacts on both ends of all the cables and terminals including the ground to the engine block. While there check the cables for corrosion under the plastic coating...if you hear crackling when you bend the cable tightly there's corrosion reducing the cable's ability to pass current (i'm no electrical engineer, that might not be the correct terminology).

[daniel.j.grossheim]

Another great idea, I ordered extra 2/0 cable for that reason. The boat is getting all new marine grade battery cables in addition to the second battery. I got some of the connectors in, but still waiting on the bigger pack that I ordered separate from the cables. You are correct about the current being reduced with corrosion. It also looks like only half of my cable is crimped on the boat currently, which would also restrict the current. Ordered the correct sized ones for 2/0 cable, looks like the original owner had them replaced with ones that were not large enough to crimp the whole cable. You can see on the negative cable in the first picture. Great advice on this forum, I love all the knowledge in these boats and the willingness to share here. Thank you everyone!


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[daniel.j.grossheim]

So, got some more time with it out this last weekend. I replaced the battery terminals two weekends ago and boy does it start up quick. I had the no starting issue a few times, all with a multimeter on board. Checked voltage on solenoid it was above 7 and the battery was 12.7 cold. It would not turn over on the trailer at all, turned the throttle down once and brought it back to neutral and tried again and it fired right up. Battery was at 13.9 once it was running. This leads me to believe it's a neutral switch going. Anybody have to replace one of these before?


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[CJD]

Great! Never had to replace a switch, but did have to adjust it once or twice on other brand boats.

Also, if you turn over the engine "dry" on the trailer, you run the risk of stripping the rubber water pump impeller. Never turn over dry.

[Salty87]

So, got some more time with it out this last weekend. I replaced the battery terminals two weekends ago and boy does it start up quick. I had the no starting issue a few times, all with a multimeter on board. Checked voltage on solenoid it was above 7 and the battery was 12.7 cold. It would not turn over on the trailer at all, turned the throttle down once and brought it back to neutral and tried again and it fired right up. Battery was at 13.9 once it was running. This leads me to believe it's a neutral switch going. Anybody have to replace one of these before?


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As Daniel said, they're adjustable so verify it doesn't need that first. One of the throttle cables goes to a lever on the transmission. Similar to the carb cable attachment you can pull back on the spring loaded end and release it from a ball mount on the lever. Make sure the transmission end of the cable seats the lever in the neutral indention when the throttle end of the cable is in its neutral position. If not, adjust the cable end longer or shorter accordingly.

[NorCalPR]

This.

Pull the cable off, make sure the lever is in the neutral detent, then adjust the cable so when the lever is in neutral, the transmission arm lever is in neutral. Verify both in forward and reverse.

Sometimes you may have to cheat by splitting the difference between where the cable ends up after coming out from forward or reverse.

It also helps when you pull the cable off, put a scribe mark on the housing and the arm, so you know where exact neutral is. Then hook it back up and adjust till the scribes match up when coming out of forward and reverse.

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[chris young]

I just started experiencing exactly the same issues, and I had an extra issue of the starter staying engaged once or twice. That issue will be solved with a new solenoid and I also had the alternater belt pretty loose. If my issues don't clear up after this I'll be heading down the same path.