SL ballast for wakesurfing

[Johnnie360]

Hey guys, new member here considering upgrading to a new boat. We have it down to an Ri237 Centurion and the SL450. We walked through both boats yesterday and they are both very nice. The proof will be on the water as we are die hard wakesurfers and want a great wake.

We mostly ride with a small crew and know that stock ballast is never enough. My question is how much more ballast is required? Looks like there is lots of room for sacs in the rear lockers. Would these just tap into the tanks below and piggyback the stock system? Can the floor take the added weight? Should more ballast be added anywhere else in the boat? I’ve watched the Wake9 videos and they are great but I’m just trying to get more info on setups with light crews.

Thanks in advanced,
John

[Larry Arizona]

You will get far more Supra support for new Supra’s on the moomba forum.

Lots of SL owners on the moomba forum.


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[pedel]

I’d highly recommend lead rather than PnP. PnP both overloads the rear and eliminates great storage. I also run with small crews. I have 900lbs of lead I spread around pretty evenly (200 in the very rear surf locker, 100 up front and the rest in the middle on each side with about 100 more on the port side). Pretty close to the wake9 set up.


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[MJHKnox]

I also run lead. I ran 500# on the boat last summer. Same as above - spread out. I will add another 500# for next summer for surfing.

500# of lead allows me to move it around for wakeboarding to get a good shape on both sides.
Depending on your wake skill level, you could do w/o it and go with just bags. 1/2 full throws a nice wake.
I think the factory settings for 'advanced' are set at 3/4 full.

For surfing, I've known people to run 2-3 people and 750-1000#s and it will surf nice.
If I was running 6-10 people with 500#s it was a really nice surf wake. I ran my 300 surf side and 200 off side. Both in the compartments by the back bench seats.
If I was running 3-4 people with 500#s it was good, but not as good as above.

If you watch the Wake9 videos, they will tell you the boat does not like a lot of weight in the back lockers.
Pitch is around 9' with -2.5 roll.
I read about people putting weight from the tower back to the back seat area on both sides. And a little up front.

Hope that helps.

And yes, I agree w/Larry, more SL owners on the Moomba site. I read both.

[Johnnie360]

Thanks guys. What if I did say a 300# pnp sac in the rear locker then 4-500#’s of lead to distribute throughout? Is that still too much weight in the rear?

These pnp sacs, do they piggyback the current system or is it a complete separate pump install? I’ll check out the Moomba forums and see what I can find there as well.

[pedel]

You’d be fine if that’s the approach you want to take. Nothing is plumbed back there for it, but could be done. The other thing I’d worry about with a PNP set up in the surf locker is crushing that flimsy panel back into the engine. I know the new centurions have a bag back there, but it was designed for it. The nice thing about lead is it takes up almost no storage space (that rear locker is awesome!), and you barely notice it in the boat. That said, I don’t trailer so I don’t mind leaving it in my boat.


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[Johnnie360]

We’re at sea level so probably would get the 450 engine option. Does it run on regular gas? Also, the wake prop offered with this engine is the 3337 which is 16x15. Anyone using this combo?

[Shoebox]

I have a 2019 450SL, and while I don't have it completely dialed yet (only got it out 3 or 4 times before the season ended), it's still a fantastic wave.

I currently have 600 lbs lead in it (I think [emoji16]). I have 200 in the rear board locker, 100 stuffed on each outside edge so I can still fit boards in there. 100 under each rear corner seat. 100 in the cooler well in the floor. 50 under the flip up seatback on the port side, and 50 somewhere else I can't remember right now.

The goofy wave is insane, I'm still dialing the regular wave. It's long, tall, and lots of push, but not as pretty as the goofy wave.

A couple of days ago, I spent several hours on a 2019 Ri237. It's a nice boat, but for essentially the same price as an SL450, it's not as nice as the SL. Lots of little things. No Chill Tech-type upholstery, no power driver's seat (if that matters to you), the controls/screens are more reminiscent of the earlier Supras, tower isn't as nice and it's not power either, stereo sounded good but chintzy remote by the driver and no controls for the passenger like the Supra has.

The Ri wave was of course excellent, and the ballast filled really fast. But I wouldn't say it was a better wave than the Supra. A little different, but not better. Supra wave was cleaner, the Ri has this weird line cutting through the face of the wave, which made a strange little curl that would grab the board. They were able to minimize it on a skim-style wave by nearly fully deploying the wakeplate and listing the boat by draining 25% out of the non-surf side.

One other consideration is fuel consumption. I'm averaging around 6.5 gph with mostly surfing. The people I rode the Ri with are pros who just moved to Centurion from Nautique and said they are averaging over 7.5 gph, where their G23 was about 6.0 gph.

The Ri was a very nice boat, but honestly made me appreciate my SL more.

[Shoebox]

We’re at sea level so probably would get the 450 engine option. Does it run on regular gas? Also, the wake prop offered with this engine is the 3337 which is 16x15. Anyone using this combo?I have the 3337. Given the option, I'd go with the 16x17 with the 450 and 1.76 trans. It seems like it's turning a higher rpm than it needs to with the 16x15 prop, and top speed was only 36.4 at 5350 rpm.

I'll probably try to find a Black Friday deal on a 16x17 and use the 3337 as a backup.

[pedel]

I’m also at sea level and tried all the props and definitely think the 2775 is the best trade off for primarily surf. Disclaimer...my boat is a 2018 sl450 and I think the transmission changed at some point in ‘19 so make sure you get info from folks with the same engin/trans.

Here is a thread on the 18: https://forum.moomba.com/showthread.php?31455-Supra-SL-Prop-RPMs-and-GPH/page10



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[Johnnie360]

Thanks for the info Shoebox. Are thoughts about the interior are the same. The Ri237, while nice and a step up from our 2014 Enzo, it was not up to the quality of the SL450. The SL is a lot closer to the G23 in the fit and finish department.

We’re coming from an SV244 and we will want an outstanding port side wake that has the power/push and tune-ability as our current one. Lately we’ve been playing with a suck gate and with the 4100# factory ballast full and four or five light weight adults in the boat we use 8 gph at 11.4mph, 3700 rpm. Prior to that it was listed with 2300#’s of ballast plus 400#’s of lead, plus our full CATS fin using 7 gph at 11.2mph and 3300 rpm. We are at sea level.

We’ve ridden behind two different G23’s and didn’t like the shape or adjustability of their surf wakes. Hoping the Supra is not similar.

[Shoebox]

Thanks for the info Shoebox. Are thoughts about the interior are the same. The Ri237, while nice and a step up from our 2014 Enzo, it was not up to the quality of the SL450. The SL is a lot closer to the G23 in the fit and finish department.

We’re coming from an SV244 and we will want an outstanding port side wake that has the power/push and tune-ability as our current one. Lately we’ve been playing with a suck gate and with the 4100# factory ballast full and four or five light weight adults in the boat we use 8 gph at 11.4mph, 3700 rpm. Prior to that it was listed with 2300#’s of ballast plus 400#’s of lead, plus our full CATS fin using 7 gph at 11.2mph and 3300 rpm. We are at sea level.

We’ve ridden behind two different G23’s and didn’t like the shape or adjustability of their surf wakes. Hoping the Supra is not similar.

If you have a bunch of bodies to move around, you'll love the SL wave. Honestly, it's hard to beat a Centurion wave, but I think the SL is close enough that all the other benefits of the SL make it a no-brainer.

Also forgot to mention, no GoPro integration in the Ri, but there is in the SL, if it matters.

[Johnnie360]

You guys running regular gas in the 450? I think our marina sells 89 marked gas.

[Shoebox]

You guys running regular gas in the 450? I think our marina sells 89 marked gas.I run at least mid-grade.

[Johnnie360]

Gas is stupid expensive here on the west coast of Canada. One of the things I like about my PCM engine is it runs on regular 87 octane.

[Shoebox]

You guys running regular gas in the 450? I think our marina sells 89 marked gas.Just checked the manual, it specifies 89 octane.

[Johnnie360]

Thanks for looking Shoebox.��

[MJHKnox]

You guys running regular gas in the 450? I think our marina sells 89 marked gas.I trailer and run mid-grade, but mine is a 400.

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[Johnnie360]

We are going for a surf demo of an SL450 Friday. Can’t wait. Should I be adding weight right off the bat or is the stock wake impressive without extra?

[MJHKnox]

We are going for a surf demo of an SL450 Friday. Can’t wait. Should I be adding weight right off the bat or is the stock wake impressive without extra?

Stock and 3-4 people will be good. Add'l weight takes it to great. Big boat to sink the back-end.

SL has a great layout. You will like it. Hope the dealer does it justice on your demo ride.

[Johnnie360]

We got out wakesurfing yesterday in perfect conditions on the water and I have to say we were a bit disappointed in the power of the wake considering the amount of weight put into the boat. The wave was long and clean but lacked the amount of push we expected.

We had three light weight adults in the boat and one surfer out back. We tried stock ballast first and that was definitely not going to do it. For our second ride each the dealer added a fat sac under each side seat, probably 500#’s each, and a small cube sac beside the helm. On our third set we moved the cube back to the middle of the boat behind the viewing seat. I think the settings were something like 7.5 and 3.5 and we varied speed between 11 and 11.5 mph. I’m not sure if these pitch and roll settings were stock from the factory or this is what the driver/sales guy thought was best.

Everything else about this boat was amazing and we really wanted it to perform so we could purchase one but it didn’t happen.

[Shoebox]

You need 9-ish on pitch. My boat has crazy push, even when the wave isn't "pretty".

[MJHKnox]

Everything else about this boat was amazing and we really wanted it to perform so we could purchase one but it didn’t happen.

Bummer. That should have been more than enough weight.

Last outing of the season we had an add'l 750#s with 4 people. Pitch was at 9-9.5. Both guys 225-250# had no issues going front to back on the wave, 360s, and trying transfers.

Not sure 2-2.5' would have that much of of a difference for you.

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[Johnnie360]

Yes, I though with approximately 4500#'s of ballast it was going to be amazing. Maybe more pitch and less wake plate was needed, though I don't know where the plate was at. We were getting airs and I could easily land 360's but I've been trying a new trick where I carve down from the top about mid wave and cut back in and hop a 180. I then would slide down the wake and reverse back to the front side (not sure what this trick is called but I've seen it in videos online). This was the tell tale sign for me that the wake was not enough. I felt like I was just not catching enough speed coming down the wake to carry into this trick.

I'm trying to add a picture of the stock wake but it doesn't seem to attach. The file in my iphone must be too large.

[MJHKnox]

Yes, I though with approximately 4500#'s of ballast it was going to be amazing. Maybe more pitch and less wake plate was needed, though I don't know where the plate was at. We were getting airs and I could easily land 360's but I've been trying a new trick where I carve down from the top about mid wave and cut back in and hop a 180. I then would slide down the wake and reverse back to the front side (not sure what this trick is called but I've seen it in videos online). This was the tell tale sign for me that the wake was not enough. I felt like I was just not catching enough speed coming down the wake to carry into this trick.

I'm trying to add a picture of the stock wake but it doesn't seem to attach. The file in my iphone must be too large.

If you get a chance, post a video/link of that trick you are talking about.

[Johnnie360]

It's the last couple of tricks James is doing here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93233l7wYtc

[h2wow]

I’m also at sea level and tried all the props and definitely think the 2775 is the best trade off for primarily surf. Disclaimer...my boat is a 2018 sl450 and I think the transmission changed at some point in ‘19 so make sure you get info from folks with the same engin/trans.

Here is a thread on the 18: https://paddleboardsurf.com/best-wakesurf-boards-for-beginners/



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My buddy has an SL450 and that is a sweet boat. Had loads of fun on that boat. I'm not sure what size prop he's been using, I'll have to check.