Ballast Pump Mounting

[CJD]

So I've finally had enough of the original sprinkler valve/aerator pump setup in our 2005 24SSV. I bought the big Talula HF 30GPM reversible pumps for the coming season. Now it's time to install. Here was my basic plan:

1) Three 1-1/2" thru hull fittings with 90 degree brass elbows to ball valves.
2) Screw the 3 pumps directly to the ball valves and let the thru hull support the pump.

Very elegant and simple compared to the original plumbing. BUT, after holding and studying these huge pumps, I started second guessing myself. Are the thru-hull and ball valves going to be strong enough to support the pumps? The alternative would be to remote mount the pumps and run flex hose to them from the ball valves. This is problematic in that the 1-1/2" hose is not very flexible and it adds several additional fittings, also doubling the number and length of hose required.

Has anyone mounted pumps directly to the thru hulls and have a long term assessment?

[MJHKnox]

Never seen pics or read about people mounting to the valves. Most pumps are made to mount to something to secure them down, not to have the in/out hose fittings support the weight.

Most people mount the Jabsco or Johnson pumps in an area that provides easy access to change the impellers.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[MJHKnox]

Add heat, hoses will be more flexible and easier to work with.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[CJD]

1-1/2" ID hose is much thicker than you would think holding it in your hand. It'll bend, but likes to crimp when you do. Picture routing engine cooling hoses all over the engine bay and you get an idea of the size and scope! Fittings at 1-1/2" are very substantial too. The pump does have a mounting bracket on the side. It would just simplify so much not having to use the bracket. Mounted to the thru-hull will actually give the best access to the impellers. The limitation on bulkhead space in the V-drive engine bay will make impeller access harder if I have to move them to a bulkhead. The floor is the only real space easily accessible...just dont know if the brass fittings will survive long term.

[Wylietunes]

#2; Pumps are too heavy, so not a good idea. Also, the pumps are not waterproof, so not a good idea to mount below waterline.

1-1/2 ballast hose is no more rigid then 1" ballast hose. Side wall thickness is not much thicker then 1" ballast as well.

[MJHKnox]

How about the transom area behind the motor by the muffler?

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[MJHKnox]

Something like this . . .

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201220/61002dfa1c942efb7fc7428f74d33c1b.jpg

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[CJD]

Appreciate the replies! I am sensing nobody has tried the direct pump mounting. The rear transom area is covered with a line locker. If I mount there the locker would have to come out to do anything with the pumps. I am also installing a 4 plate hydraulic wake shaper that will have to use much of that area with hydraulic pumps and lines.

I think I will study and fiddle with the parts for a while, while I install the wake plates, before I finalize a plan. I know it sounds like 1-1/2" hose is not that much different...but the absolute tightest bend you can make is only 16-20" radius, and that is pushing it. That makes planning runs for 6 hoses much more difficult in an already cramped area than you would think. At least if I want to have access to anything related to the engine or drive. MJH, I love your transom mounting! But that would not work with these hoses without doubling the spacing on the pumps and using many 90 degree elbows to get the hoses to them. I would have to staggger the pumps vertically also to get the hoses to run. These fittings are so large that by the time you get through the 90 elbow the pump is already well above the water line. The alternator would go under before them. I mean these fittings are HUGE. To put in perspective, the hoses are almost as large around as the original aerator pumps. Total area used by 25 feet of hoses running to the transom and back to the bags would be the equivalent of finding room for 30 aerator pumps in the engine bay! That's not including the fittings associated with the runs and new pumps.

Direct mounting the pump to the thru hull eliminates 1/2 of the number and volume of hose. It may be worth fashioning a bracket to be able to direct mount them to the fittings...will have to study and think.

I welcome any ideas while I ponder. Thanks again!

PS...Now that I study your setup, I see you just decided to do away with the line locker.

[MJHKnox]

Line locker - not sure of any use for that. Once we are on the boat, I keep all the dock lines under the driver's helm by my feet. Plenty of room under there and helps when we we are getting ready to dock. I can easily hand out all the lines for the people putting the on port/starboard cleats. Less people shifting around to gain access to lockers.

I'm guessing you will not find many that will advise putting those electric pumps under the water line and potentially exposing them to water damage. Little different from a bilge pump.

[Mischief IV]

Mine are located on the transom - port side behind a false wall. I would think 1.5" hoses would be a huge pain in the ass to plumb looking at the cluster fudge I have with 6 one inch hoses in that tight space. I have one pump straight up, one upside down and one sideways for hose configuration but still easy enough to check the impellers.

When I drain my built in cooler, it pours out directly into bilge next to the the thru hull intakes. We go through 50-70 pounds of ice a weekend which ultimately gets drained while sitting on lift at end of day. I would not want my Jabsco pumps in bilge area but I understand the dilemma.

The only area I don't really use in my boat is underneath the rear center seat. It contains another white plastic cooler which is removable to access the Vdrive and tranny. I store my surf ropes in there but not really great usable space otherwise. Not sure if your '05 24SSV is similar to my 242 but if I had to mount pumps and keep them close to the hull, I'd figure out a way to use that space as it centers between the two lockers and easy access to front bag possibly.

If you want to spend more money, remove the muffler if similar to the pic MJHKnox, use straight pipes and add on FAE and you will gain space in front of motor if needed.

[MJHKnox]

People have also mounted them inside the locker panels.

https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?15981-Wakemakers-Gravity-III-Upgrade

[CJD]

Thanks for the thread and pics. I'm not sure why, but my boat doesn't have that much room for some reason. There is a cooler under the center seat, but it is directly over the V drive unit. Anything put there will make tranny and V drive annual MX a true pain. The current sprinkler valves are under the center seat and over the V drive, but a single 1-1/2" pump would take up more room than all the sprinkler valves.

Once I finish the wake plates I'll get serious and post some pics of what I am working with.

[MJHKnox]

Thanks for the thread and pics. I'm not sure why, but my boat doesn't have that much room for some reason. There is a cooler under the center seat, but it is directly over the V drive unit. Anything put there will make tranny and V drive annual MX a true pain. The current sprinkler valves are under the center seat and over the V drive, but a single 1-1/2" pump would take up more room than all the sprinkler valves.

Once I finish the wake plates I'll get serious and post some pics of what I am working with.

good luck.

[CJD]

Finally wrapping up the swim platform so I can get to work on the new ballast pumps. Here are some progress pics of the platform. The underside is a hyper alloy combat chassis, having 2 hydraulic wake plates and 2 wake shapers. The top is teak and will cover all the mechanicals. The pneumatic ladder will automatically kick back up and lock in place if forgotten before a run. I'll post a final once the teak is sealed and installed.

https://i.imgur.com/nIuH7N9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/OiHMzTa.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/pBd8nyY.jpg

Back to the ballast pumps, this is the machining of the rear pumps mounting plate. It will mount the pumps, relays, breakers and controls...all fitting behind the muffler and under the aft line locker. You guys talked me out of just hanging the pumps on the thru-hull. Thanks, as the result will be much more elegant, although completely out of sight. I'll post some more pics once I get weather to work outside again...

https://i.imgur.com/2Sk0xez.jpg

[CJD]

Here is the final pump module, ready to drop in. The pumps are rated at 30 amps each, so I was worried about the draw on the dash switches. I used a couple 40 amp relays to take the load. The relays are triggered through 2 Wakemakers adjustable pump timers. Then, the relays are powered through 2 - 40 amp auto-resetting breakers that will be fed off the 8 gage hot wire to the alternator.

https://i.imgur.com/m3PC30r.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/5aF9ceH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/CCsXSvx.jpg

Here is the control panel for the wake plates. I installed the switches inverted, so the direction of the switch operation matches the direction the plates actually move (the "up" and "down" on the switch label refers to boat nose motion, rather than plate motion). I figured it would be confusing to have the plates extend when you press the upper switch. They also have an auto-retract function that I will wire to retract the opposite side plates when ever one side is extended.

https://i.imgur.com/n8OWdGG.jpg

[CJD]

The 4 wake plates take 2 Bennett pumps and controllers, so I had to make a couple modules for those parts to fit just forward of the rear line locker. I'll post pics showing the final mounting. I still have to figure out the front bag pump mounting. I'm hoping that once I clear out all the old pipes and sprinkler valves a solution will become evident.

https://i.imgur.com/OBNhf1P.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/poltKBE.jpg

[CJD]

Wakemakers told me they have not had anyone finish an installation with these Talula pumps at the time I am working on this upgrade. I did some math on the power of the Talula pumps. With 3 of them running the bags will add 750# per minute. The original aerator pump (single pump) took 30 minutes to fully fill the bags with 3200# total weight, or only 100# per minute. It will now take just over 4 minutes to fill the bags, and the new pumps can board 22,500# of water in the time it took the old pump to fill the bags...more than triple the base weight of the boat. In the time it used to take to fill the bags, or about one surfer run, we could sink the boat!

I considered skipping the pump timers, but once I looked at the math I realized the timers are important safety components. In fact, I may have to wire an alarm to flow meters in the bag vents. Forgetting to turn a pump off or bumping a switch on could be catastrophic. Anyway, thought somebody out there might be interested in some fun math.

[MJHKnox]

Wakemakers told me they have not had anyone finish an installation with these Talula pumps at the time I am working on this upgrade. I did some math on the power of the Talula pumps. With 3 of them running the bags will add 750# per minute. The original aerator pump (single pump) took 30 minutes to fully fill the bags with 3200# total weight, or only 100# per minute. It will now take just over 4 minutes to fill the bags, and the new pumps can board 22,500# of water in the time it took the old pump to fill the bags...more than triple the base weight of the boat. In the time it used to take to fill the bags, or about one surfer run, we could sink the boat!

I considered skipping the pump timers, but once I looked at the math I realized the timers are important safety components. In fact, I may have to wire an alarm to flow meters in the bag vents. Forgetting to turn a pump off or bumping a switch on could be catastrophic. Anyway, thought somebody out there might be interested in some fun math.

Do you have bigger vent lines - 1-1/2" hose?

[MJHKnox]

having 2 hydraulic wake plates and 2 wake shapers.

https://i.imgur.com/OiHMzTa.jpg



Have you done any testings on the plates to look at the output - the wave it creates?

Looks like a set of surf gates (outward) with a ram and a set of tabs (up/down) with another ram? I'm not sure I see the tab ram in the pic.

[Mischief IV]

Wow, that's some next level engineering you are putting in this boat. Looks great...just mind blowing actually. I can see you are way overqualified to work at Skiers Choice. Is it bad I like the teak platform the best? I mean, it's hard to get excited by looking at pics of water pumps.

Not feeling bad about mine but think I'm gonna just stick with the $140 suction cup wakeshaper and 8 minute ballast fill time.

Great job! Keep the pics coming.

[MJHKnox]

Is it bad I like the teak platform the best?

I'm pretty sure MC still sells them . . .

[CJD]

Thx. I have played with the suction wake shapers for several years, which sort of led the design for what I am doing. This is all a culmination of "want to's" I have been collecting for the last 10 years I have owned the boat. The foremost is that my son surfs goofy foot, but every time he brings a friend they always want to surf straight. For some reason they do not understand the idea of shifting ballast for 30 minutes to change surf sides?!? Weighting even and using a plate to change the surf side is the logical solution.

Last year I bought an old Bridgeport mill, and spent the year learning how to use it by gradually stepping up the complexity of my projects. I finally reached a point I felt confident enough to tackle the wake plate project. I will be able to machine plates of different sizes and shapes to experiment this summer. I doubt they will be optimum as I have them right now...but changing plates will be fun to play with. Who knows, they may end up huge like MJHKox's! They are driven by standard Bennett hydraulic trim tab pistons. If I have any trouble with these...like power or travel...I can swap those out later.

The next "want to" was a ladder for my wife, who has a bad back and has trouble getting in and out of the boat. Then, the black rubber on the original swim platform started staining all our swimsuits black, leading to the idea of making the entire upgrade into a pretty teak swim platform. The real challenge was fitting all of these upgrades so they all mount on the original Platform mounting pads. By doing that I can always go back to the original if it doesn't work out for any reason.

The pump upgrade was a "want to" from my having to sit for 30 minutes after every time we go surfing...waiting for the bags to empty so I can lift the boat. Not to mention the constant cavitation where I have to go back and jump up and down on the bags to get the aerator pumps to prime. I have had enough of those sprinkler parts.

Sadly, the 16 year old vinyl has now started to come apart from my climbing in and out so many times working on these mods. I'll have to factor that in to the "want to's" too.

I have not done anything to the original 3/4" vents. Do you recommend enlarging them? I planned to set the timers well short full, so the vents should only vent a bit of trapped air...unless I screw something up.

The boat has been great for the last 10 years. I am hoping these upgrades will keep me from looking at new boats for at least another 5 or ten years?!?

[MJHKnox]

I have not done anything to the original 3/4" vents. Do you recommend enlarging them? I planned to set the timers well short full, so the vents should only vent a bit of trapped air...unless I screw something up.


I would not always rely on the timers. I'm more concerned about having the bags full.

If you had 1" fill and 3/4" vent lines, there is not that much of a difference of the diameter of the lines and pumps. I know if a pump was left on or bumped, the vent could keep up with the water inflow. This happened on my last boat. It was a 2007 Supra with the upgraded Jabsco Pumps, 1" fill-lines and 3/4" vent lines. There were times when someone driving would bump the switch and I would notice water shooting out of the side of the boat.

You have input of 1 1/2" fill lines and 3/4" vents with those new bigger pumps. Not any write ups on those pumps. That's A LOT more volume of water. The pressure would shoot out the water with more force. I ASSUME the the vent could keep up with the inflow if you did not notice water shooting out of the side of the boat. A bag connection would probably fail or pop-off before the ballast bag breaks. Either way, it would be a lot of water in your hull. And I would not want the inflow popping off with the pump running - the bilge would never keep up.

I'm sure Wakemakers makes different sizes of hull fittings for vent lines if you wanted them. I would run it as-is and see how the system and timers are working.

I have timers on my SL, but I still use the manual switches to either
1) make sure the bags are full - I turn them on if the timers are done and I do not see water shooting out of the side of the boat
2) draining them back at the boat ramp. more like making sure the water is out when the boat is on trailer and I'm ready to get on the road.

So I guess the moral of the story is to pay attention if you have water shooting out the side of the boat.

[Wylietunes]

Rather then look at it from a hose/fitting size stand point, you need to look at it from a volume capacity standpoint. That pump can easily fill the sac through a 1" port, but once the sac is full, you need an outlet that will handle the flow of the pump without allowing to sac to build pressure.

Interesting you went with hydraulic actuators for the surf plates.

[CJD]

Yeah, the more you guys talk and the more I think about it, I think I will come up with some kind of fail safe for the fill. Either a flow detector in the vents to shut off the power...or possibly using a power source that is only on temporarily. This will take some more thought...

[MJHKnox]

Rather then look at it from a hose/fitting size stand point, you need to look at it from a volume capacity standpoint. That pump can easily fill the sac through a 1" port, but once the sac is full, you need an outlet that will handle the flow of the pump without allowing to sac to build pressure.

Interesting you went with hydraulic actuators for the surf plates.

I assume the thru-hull fittings from the factory are 3/4" from those model years.

Wonder what the bigger thru-hull would looks like next to the 3/4"? Usually they are mounted next to one another.

But new hose and fitting would do the trick.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210204/3ee945396760659a24e6502c7058aaa6.jpg

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[CJD]

If I up-sized the vents, I'd likely run the rear bag vents out the back of the boat. I could double -up the front vent to use the OEM side vents.

[Wylietunes]

If I up-sized?

[CJD]

If I up-sized?

I think some of the guys above think the 3/4" vent lines may be to small if the bags are full and someone bumps a switch on. 1-1/2" fill being vented out of 3/4" vents will likely blow up the bags.

[Wylietunes]

Like I said above, dont look at it from hose or fitting size point of view, but the capacity of the fitting/hose v's the flow rate suppling the sac.

Heres what I means by this. Say I use a 1.5" hose to fill, but my pump flow is 400 GPH. A .75" vent system is not an issue. No insert that 30 GPM pump with the same 1.5" hose. Now you may have an issue.

Also keep in mind, that 3/4" sac fitting may have in ID thats 5/8" or as small as 1/2".

[MJHKnox]

One would assume if you have 25% more GPM, the lines would need to be 25% larger. I still think you will need to keep an eye if you see continuous water off the side of the boat.

I see what MLA is saying on the flow - but with all the variables, who knows the breaking point of a bag vs a connection pops off if you cross the line when the Out Flow Vent Pressure cannot keeping up with the In Flow Pump pressure. I do not read about many people busting bags or ports with Jabsco Pumps and the smaller 1" or 1-1/8" with 3/4" or 1" vent lines.

Timers should auto-shutoff the bags and not leave the pumps in the state of fill or empty. I did not have timers on mine, so if someone bumped the switch, I was the only person looking or would notice water shooting off the side of the boat.

On the opposite side, I noticed several times w/o ballast as we cruised down the lake and the a pump was switched to DRAIN by accident. You can hear the pump buzzing/growling when there is no water in the bags. Timers should auto-shutoff the bags and not leave the pumps in the state of fill or empty. Those bigger pumps will make a big noise difference if they were pumping water vs no water to pump.

From Wakemakers:
Jabsco Pumps: 10.6 GPM. 1000# sack fills at 88#/min or 11.3 mins
Talulah Pumps: 13.5 GPM. 1000# sack fills at 110#/min or 4 mins
The GPM flow is increased by appx 25%

[Wylietunes]

From Wakemakers:
Jabsco Pumps: 10.6 GPM. 1000# sack fills at 88#/min or 11.3 mins
Talulah Pumps: 13.5 GPM. 1000# sack fills at 110#/min or 4 mins
The GPM flow is increased by appx 25%

Except, neither of these pumps are the pump being used. he's using the 30 GPM Hi-Flow, so roughly 3X the flow rate of those two.


Standard Talulah Pumps: 13.5 GPM. 1000# sack fills at 110#/min or 9 mins

Thats better

[MJHKnox]

Except, neither of these pumps are the pump being used. he's using the 30 GPM Hi-Flow, so roughly 3X the flow rate of those two.



Thats betterThanks MLA. I was looking at the other Johnson pump. Wrong one.

Still amazed at the output of that thing.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210208/3cd671734785344f154b29e153a198c1.jpg

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[MJHKnox]

Didn't know how many of those pumps had some type of 'run dry protection'.

Never really paid attention to it.



Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210208/1799a829693bab6f68596901a96b212c.jpg

[CJD]

That's the add for the pump, but it has a warning on the box not to run it dry. There are no instructions provided, other than what's printed on the box. My impression is that running dry will damage the impeller, but the motor will protect itself after the impeller melts down?!?

[MJHKnox]

If the impeller is spinning dry, it would be probe to cracking. When they start to go bad, the vanes will crack.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[CJD]

Well, I'm bored stiff. I got the wake plates working great...and I have a fix for the position sensors on the side plates, and I started running those elephant trunk hoses for the new pumps...then the ice storm hit. I have been stepping on the rear upholstery so much that several seams started splitting. So big deal, I ordered fresh marine grade vinyl and was ready to move my work indoors during the immanent ice storm. Trouble is Amazon shut down before they brought my Tenara thread.

Bummer.

I'm one of those types that needs projects to survive, and I was so close to being set up to finish the upholstery...but not going to happen. Could be worse, though. Many here are living in their cars as their homes are heatless with broken pipes. The boat is full of 12 inches of snow (we don't generally GET snow here! The lift has 18 inches of ice grown onto it. Instead of squeak squeak with the waves, it goes crackle crunch. So much for that hope 2021 would be a better year! You can skate on pools and most lakes have frozen over for the first time in my life. I know this sounds like nothing to those up north...we just have no capability for this kind of cold down here. Bad designs, bad planning, bad preparation.

The good news, against the general widespread claims...solar and wind are putting out more than they were prospected to...

[CJD]

The rear 1/3 of the boat looks like new. The upholstery forward will be a gradual project, though. It's all intact, but looks awful next to the bright new vinyl on the rear hatch covers.

I was all ready to launch for the first of the season to try out the new ballast pumps, but found that the 1-1/2" bag fittings will not fit into the old bags. So now I am on hold waiting delivery of 2 new 1280# sacs from Wakemakers.

I decided to run the mega pumps through a double switch to prevent inadvertently blowing the bags. The accessory switch must be down and the bag switch up before the pumps will work. I figure that way it will take a double mistake to overfill. I had looked at flow meters for the vents and some other ideas...but in the end it was getting just too complicated. KISS is always the best philosophy.

I have not installed the new front pump yet. I got burned out on this project for the season, and will take a few months to decide the best way to install it. In the mean time, the original aerator pump is dedicated to only the front bag. So when the pump kicks in it fills, although slower than the rear bags, and the original vent empty aerator motor will drain the forward sac. It should still fill much faster than it used to, since the little pump no longer has to share 3 bags.

After working with the 1-1/2" ballast hose, all I can say is OMG! This hose is fat and stiff as hell, so you must carefully plan your routes. It only bends about 2-3 degrees per foot, so bending it around corners is out of the question. You must change directions using hard elbows, and only have the gentlest of curves for the hose to bend. Working with the final hose install was the last straw in my current burn out. I am ready to start surfing!

[Mischief IV]

The rear 1/3 of the boat looks like new. The upholstery forward will be a gradual project, though. It's all intact, but looks awful next to the bright new vinyl on the rear hatch covers.

I was all ready to launch for the first of the season to try out the new ballast pumps, but found that the 1-1/2" bag fittings will not fit into the old bags. So now I am on hold waiting delivery of 2 new 1280# sacs from Wakemakers.

I decided to run the mega pumps through a double switch to prevent inadvertently blowing the bags. The accessory switch must be down and the bag switch up before the pumps will work. I figure that way it will take a double mistake to overfill. I had looked at flow meters for the vents and some other ideas...but in the end it was getting just too complicated. KISS is always the best philosophy.

I have not installed the new front pump yet. I got burned out on this project for the season, and will take a few months to decide the best way to install it. In the mean time, the original aerator pump is dedicated to only the front bag. So when the pump kicks in it fills, although slower than the rear bags, and the original vent empty aerator motor will drain the forward sac. It should still fill much faster than it used to, since the little pump no longer has to share 3 bags.

After working with the 1-1/2" ballast hose, all I can say is OMG! This hose is fat and stiff as hell, so you must carefully plan your routes. It only bends about 2-3 degrees per foot, so bending it around corners is out of the question. You must change directions using hard elbows, and only have the gentlest of curves for the hose to bend. Working with the final hose install was the last straw in my current burn out. I am ready to start surfing!

Pics or it didn't happen. :)

[CJD]

47 knot winds right now...you'll have to wait till I get get to the dock!

[CJD]

Alright, here are pics of the super pumps installed. I finally got the boat out for the first run of the season. Those are 1280# bags that fill in 8 minutes. Emptying takes about 9. They all checked out great, so now the rear line locker will go back in place over the top of the pumps. Of note are the large red 4 gage power cables feeding these thirsty pumps. When they kick in, you know it! I don't think there is much chance of accidentally turning these pumps on without knowing it. The first 2 pics show the hydraulic pumps for the wake plates. I still have some work to go on those to get them "tuned".

https://i.imgur.com/Bnq1Y6h.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/sMy2bvO.jpg?1

https://i.imgur.com/KDYZLRF.jpg?1

[Inled]

Hey, I was looking into doing the same pump upgrade you have going. Did you try heating the hose at all to make tighter bends? Or would 1 1/4” hose have been sufficient with having smaller ends attaching to the bags? Are the relays seeming to hold up fine? I was considering using a reversible relay like what’s on an ATV winch.

[CJD]

The hose has an internal teflon wire to keep it stiff...I'm not sure heating would accomplish much with it. It is not going to ever bend much. I don't know about the 1-1/4 hose. If you plan the routing and use brass plumbing elbows you can get it run well though. Any reduction in hose size will reduce your flow, so I recommend using the full 1-1/2" hose with the HF Talulah pumps.

The pump box says it will draw 30 amps, so technically you could run it right off the switches, but upgrade the wires to 10 gage. That's a lot of amps to run from the battery, through your dash switches and back to the rear transom where the pumps are! I chose to keep the factory 16 gage wiring, and then run killer 4 gage wire directly from the alternator lead...which is just a foot ahead of the pump locations...through relays. The wakemaker's timer modules are also rated to run the pumps directly, but I wanted to take the load off the main boat wiring and put it on cheap relays. I think I bought the 40 amp relays off Amazon for $15 for a 4 pack. So I have extras if they ever do fail.

I could not find a cheap water proof relay that had DPDT and an off position. I would have used a single relay if I could have found one, so your idea of a winch relay may be a good one. Of interest, the instructions for the pumps recommend you always have the engine running while operating the pumps...I assume so you won't run your battery down and end up stranded. If you run all three pumps at once you could pull 90 amps for 8-9 minutes...significant power!

[MJHKnox]

Yep, that's some juice.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[Inled]

I just realized my bags all have just 3/4” fittings on them, so probably not any point in putting the HF pump in.

[Mischief IV]

Project looks great. I was reading your fill times and if you compare to my boat, it’s much better for sure. With 360 pounds difference in our rear bags (1100s vs 1280s), you’re filling about 40 seconds faster than me overall. I have my timer set for 8.40

Now, I do carry additional lead weight and store 200 pounds or 4 bags underneath those 1100s so I’m essentially the same weight as you when full. The one thing I’ve learned with my boat however is to set the non surf side bag to 90 percent full. I don’t fully weight the back end as I want a bit of roll for the surf side.
I kinda know by looking at bag where it needs to be and adjust if necessary but seems best setup for excellent wave on the 242.
I’m sure everyone’s setup is different.

Pro install for sure though and best of luck with this season. Hope your friends and family appreciate all of your hard work.

[Wylietunes]

I just realized my bags all have just 3/4” fittings on them, so probably not any point in putting the HF pump in.

If you are using impeller pumps, the smaller inlet just means the water's velocity increases. So no real measurable drop in flow rate. Aerator pumps, different story. But even then, its not that great of a drop between a 1" to 3/4" sac port.

[CJD]

The HF pump has 1-1/2" inlet/outlet. I'd be willing to bet there would be a difference in flow if using 3/4" plumbing.

[Wylietunes]

What sacs are you using that have a 1.5" inlet?

[CJD]

Wake makers. They advertise a 1" screw fitting for their 1-1/2" bag fitting, so I measured my original bag threads to roughly 1" and thought I was good. When I actually went to hook them up, it turned out the fitting is larger than the advertised 1". I had to wait for a new Wakemaker bag to arrive...about 3 days free shipping. The big fitting does neck slightly where the threads are...about 1-1/4" maybe, but still pretty large.

To me the scariest part is drilling the 1-7/8" holes through the boat bottom to install the thru-hulls. If anything breaks off prior to the pumps, the boat is going down fast! At least if anything breaks after the pumps you can always turn them off to stop the flow.

[Inled]

Wake makers. They advertise a 1" screw fitting for their 1-1/2" bag fitting, so I measured my original bag threads to roughly 1" and thought I was good. When I actually went to hook them up, it turned out the fitting is larger than the advertised 1". I had to wait for a new Wakemaker bag to arrive...about 3 days free shipping. The big fitting does neck slightly where the threads are...about 1-1/4" maybe, but still pretty large.

To me the scariest part is drilling the 1-7/8" holes through the boat bottom to install the thru-hulls. If anything breaks off prior to the pumps, the boat is going down fast! At least if anything breaks after the pumps you can always turn them off to stop the flow.

You don’t have valves on the through hulls?

[CJD]

I do. But try to imagine how fast the water will be entering through a 1-1/2" hole. If I don't catch it right away, it may not be possible to get to the the valve at the bottom of the bilge, buried under the line locker, beneath hoses and wires, and blocked by 1280# bags. I would be better off stuffing my swim suite into the intake from the outside of the boat...and that is assuming I can figure out which of the 3 thru-hulls broke.

I don't plan to lose sleep over it, but honestly, if one of the thru-hulls breaks before the pump, chances are the boat is going down. We're always swimming distance from the house, and THAT is why it was so annoying with the OEM pumps. When we were finished surfing, with the house only a few hundred yards away, we would have to drive around for 30 more minutes waiting for the bags to drain before we could lift the boat. It's worth the infinitesimal risk of a break in a thru-hull to speed the fill/empty times by a factor of 5.

[MJHKnox]

I don't plan to lose sleep over it.


Good call.

Put a few SS clamps on it. Check the fittings at the beginning of the year and maybe during the year if you are fixing something else in there. Call it good.

Sent from my P00I using Tapatalk

[Mischief IV]

I’d worry more when the frat boys in daddy’s new boat decide to pass by your boat rather close while you’re sitting idle, not paying attention and fully loaded.

These older boats sit lower than the new barges and they don’t really seem to care. Anyway, take it from experience, it ain’t fun.

[CJD]

I’d worry more when the frat boys in daddy’s new boat decide to pass by your boat rather close while you’re sitting idle, not paying attention and fully loaded.

These older boats sit lower than the new barges and they don’t really seem to care. Anyway, take it from experience, it ain’t fun.

I hear ya'! I'll be out working on the dock and those little rats will run back and forth, surfing 100 feet from the floating dock. 3000 acres of lake and they'll run right down the line of docks within 100 feet. When we're out surfing, it becomes tit for tat. If they come to close, I make it my mission to destroy their surfing until they get the point. The lake is big enough for everyone if they have a little courtesy.

[CJD]

Get this! I have not been able to time the pumps down to prevent over-filling the bags. When I hit the low stop on the timer and still could not stop the pumps, I decided to time the fill/empty times. Recall these are new 1280lb sacs. 2 min 50sec fill time. 3 min 30sec empty.

These pumps with 1-1/2" piping are screamers!!

[Mischief IV]

Holy frijoles! Under 3 minutes? Good for you!
I can’t even get my life jacket on in 3 minutes.
Big difference in what I recall you saying prior times were.

[CJD]

That's what amazes me...It's not very often in life things work better than advertised. Maybe I should look into being a volunteer fireman on the lake, LOL?!?

[MJHKnox]

Wow. 3 mins on a 1100# bag


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk