2020 Supra SL 550 Roush Engine needs to be replaced not under warranty

[boatgonebad]

Anyone every heard of a 1 year old engine needing to be replaced and not covered under warranty by Indmar. We have put in premium gas and mostly non ethanol every time. Went to Lake Powell and bought fuel that they are saying had water in it and destroyed the engine. Now being told a new motor installed is anywhere from $25,000 - $40,000. Any advise - anyone had water get into their engine from faulty equipment and not just a bad batch of gas? Had another boat with us that filled up at the same time same product but not a super charged ultra sensitive motor. Had one misfire and no other warning and 12 boat hours later had a smoking boat and destroyed motor. Not a happy boater at this point!!

Anyone else had problems with the Indmar super charged motor?? All they are considering is bad fuel and not looking into faulty parts?

[michael hunter]

What exactly is wrong with the engine? Is there water in the oil. They will have to prove you did something to damage it not just make up a story. Did you contact Supra and start a warranty case through them?

[boatgonebad]

Report from Indmar - contacting Supra now but engine is on Indmar warranty.
1. Problem Reported By Customer
zero compression #3
2. Receiving Information
Unit received and Inspected on 8-4-21. (Event happened on 7/6 taken to dealer on 7/8 not sure why the delay in receiving? this added by me)
3. Results of Inspection / Testing
Visual inspection revealed the following:
a) No compression on #3 cylinder
b) Found #3 piston starting to melt and break apart
c) Registration/ sale date: 6-26-20
d) Engine hours: 121
A limited tear down was performed on the engine with these observations:
a) The #3 injector was tested and is within spec
b) Gas sample was taken from the fuel rail and found visible water mixed with the gas

5. Summary and Conclusions
a) #3 piston has started to melt and come apart
b) The injector was tested and is within spec
c) The fuel sample was taken from the fuel rail and visible water could be seen mixed with the fuel.
d) Excessive water in the fuel and/or low octane fuel would cause the engine to run lean, thus the piston damage would occur.
e) Damage caused by the use of fuels and lubricants that are not suitable for use with or on the product or its fuel system
components are not covered by the Indmar Limited product Warranty.
f) No defects in workmanship or parts could be identified in this engine.
g) No other possible root causes for this damage could be identified.


ONE ALARM ABOUT MISFIRE THAT WE RECEIVED AT 112 HOURS BUT THEY SHOW 6000 ALARMS THAT DO NOT SHOW UP IF THE SAME MISFIRE(ALARM) IS WHAT WE WERE TOLD SO HAD NO IDEA UNTIL ENGINE WAS SMOKING AND WENT INTO LIMP MODE ON THE WAY BACK TO THE MARINA TO FUEL UP FOR THE NEXT DAY ON THE LAKE.

[Larry Arizona]

I would take that report to your insurance company.

If someone poured sugar in your auto gas tank, insurance would cover it.

Water is an equally foreign substance.

I still think water in fuel should put engine in limp mode and keep it there. Indmar should cover it no question.

Very familiar with forced induction engines and detonation with bad fuel is typically mitigated with knock sensors that pull timing until knocking stops and if knocking continues it goes in limp mode:

I would argue that Indmar didn’t have the correct amount of timing pulled for subpar fuel.




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[michael hunter]

I have never heard of water causing a melted piston. If you had that much water in the fuel there would be a lot of other symptoms such as
Rough acceleration
Misfires
Rough idle
Check engine light
Steam from the exhaust
Slow acceleration
Hard starting condition
The car does not start at all
It appears after the car have been standing for a while

The piston melted because it got too hot . There are a lot of things that could have caused that . It sounds like they made up one story and went with it because it fit the not under warranty scenario. Unless they find the real cause they are just guessing . I have dealt with insurance adjusters like this before it is only their opinion as to what caused it not necessarily fact. You need to get your own expert to see what really happened or it will most likely happen again?

[Larry Arizona]

Detonation is what melted that position on a FI engine.

1000% ECM should have put that boat in limp mode.


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[boatgonebad]

This is the report from Indmar. They are blaming the fuel and water. We are having a conference call with the dealer, Indmar rep, Supra rep and insurance rep to discuss how and why this happened and that it didn't go to limp mode and hopefully we don't get stuck with the new engine bill. We really don't feel like it is bad fuel since we were with two other boats that filled up at the same time and same place and had not problems but neither boat had the Roush super sensitive engine. One of the boats was nicer than ours but not an Indmar engine. I appreciate all the advice and opinions to help with questions at our meeting as we are a bit new to boating and learning way too much about engines at this point. We have done everything by the book with oil changes, breaking it in, premium gas, winterization etc and stuck with having to put in a new engine after year 1. They even act like they don't ever repair engines so if you have a problem it is a complete new engine which is frustrating especially when the limited warranty is so limited and bad gas is problem the problem for them most of the time.

[boatgonebad]

That is what we are wondering too why it didn't put the engine in limp mode. The boat ran great the 12 hours that the report shows we had major problems and it wasn't until it was smoking and oil coming out that it went into limp mode.

[MJHKnox]

Good luck sorting it out.

So you have the Indmar warranty when you bought the boat? Sounds like a new purchase, but I know people turning out their 2021s already.

I’m betting they will take care of you.


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[MJHKnox]

As for the 550 motor, I have friends with that in the SA and SE models. They have no issues.

On social media, I think I’ve read about 1 or 2 with some type of ‘failure’. It’s not many.

If anything, there are probably more error codes I hear about. The mechanics I talk to compare it to the older 496 motors that were a “little more finicky” vs the std motor option.


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[Larry Arizona]

Forced induction engines have more ECM safeguards. That said, if you put bad fuel in it and keep pushing through a fault code by shutting it down and trying it again, it will still blow up.

If the fuel was bad and you ran 12 hours on it, it may very well have detonated enough to break the #3 piston.

I don’t know how much timing Indmar pulls, but I can tell you on a GM 6.2 LSA, it will pull so much timing to protect the engine to the point of throwing 5-8 codes and shutting the engine down.

My LSA went into full limp mode and would barely run with the dash lit up like a Xmas tree.

Got it home, pulled a fuel sample from the rail, easily 10% water. Added alcohol to the tank and took the blower belt off, ran it around easily to burn off the 14 gallons I had left and was fine.

If you had non ethanol fuel with water in it, the gas and water won’t homologate.

Ethanol will help homologate the water enough to consume it.


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[MJHKnox]

Forced induction engines have more ECM safeguards. That said, if you put bad fuel in it and keep pushing through a fault code by shutting it down and trying it again, it will still blow up.

If the fuel was bad and you ran 12 hours on it, it may very well have detonated enough to break the #3 piston.

I don’t know how much timing Indmar pulls, but I can tell you on a GM 6.2 LSA, it will pull so much timing to protect the engine to the point of throwing 5-8 codes and shutting the engine down.

My LSA went into full limp mode and would barely run with the dash lit up like a Xmas tree.

Got it home, pulled a fuel sample from the rail, easily 10% water. Added alcohol to the tank and took the blower belt off, ran it around easily to burn off the 14 gallons I had left and was fine.

If you had non ethanol fuel with water in it, the gas and water won’t homologate.

Ethanol will help homologate the water enough to consume it.


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Just curious, how much alcohol did you add to 14g? 1 gallon?


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[Larry Arizona]

Just curious, how much alcohol did you add to 14g? 1 gallon?


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16 oz. The GM LSA is 9:1 compression without boost, it needed just enough alcohol to allow the water to mix with gas versus phase separate.


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[Larry Arizona]

OP,

Any update on your engine?


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[boatgonebad]

No answers and 2 it’s been 2 months and still not sure who is paying for the new engine. Hopefully good news this week or some news getting frustrated.


OP,

Any update on your engine?


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[boatgonebad]

No answers and 2 it’s been 2 months and still not sure who is paying for the new engine. Hopefully good news this week or some news getting frustrated.

What would any of you suggest if no one wants to pay for the 1 year old engine that needs to be replaced? Any suggestions would you get a lawyer?

[Mischief IV]

What would any of you suggest if no one wants to pay for the 1 year old engine that needs to be replaced? Any suggestions would you get a lawyer?

Yes, have a lawyer review the case and pursue legal action if necessary.

[MJHKnox]

Might want to send a notice/letter to all parties that unless you get a response your next step would be a lawyer. I would let them know you want to work with them.

A lawyer might be useful to get the process moving, it’s going to cost you $, but getting it moving and solving the issue are two different things.

Hope they can make a deal with you to get you back up and running.


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[Mischief IV]

A letter from a lawyer may cost you $750-1000 to get the point across. A lawsuit would cost more but then they would have to prove in court that the engine expired due to bad gas. You would have to prove that it did not. That's when you go for a settlement and it would cost them less to replace than fight.

[Jetlink]

A letter from a lawyer may cost you $750-1000 to get the point across. A lawsuit would cost more but then they would have to prove in court that the engine expired due to bad gas. You would have to prove that it did not. That's when you go for a settlement and it would cost them less to replace than fight.

This advice brought to you by the law offices of Mischief IV, MJHKnox and Associates.

[Brandongloria]

No answers and 2 it’s been 2 months and still not sure who is paying for the new engine. Hopefully good news this week or some news getting frustrated.

What did they ever do? I spoke with one person today. They literally told me the exact same thing that happened to yours.