87 sunsport trailer weight

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I got my boat fixed go to pick it up and go to snap the "clip" down on the coupler of the trailer and it snaps off! Do i have to replace it with a new coupler that has the brakes and everything? I don't even know if they work to be honest, I have a F-250 V10 with Banks Power and Brake assist. What is the weight of the boat and the trailer? can I get away with just putting a standard one on?

[knoble]

I have an 86 sunsport that should be the same and the owners manual shows a 4270 lbs. towing weight! Hope that helps!

:cool:

[87SunSportMikeyD]

man you are havin some tough times lately....

[FoiltechLaunch21V]

I know a lot of people that don't run trailer brakes. I personally like the security of having trailer brakes.

I spoke with a DMV officer in NC and he said there was a weight limit that required brakes and tandem axle trailers had to have at least one axle with brakes.

[Salty87]

i thought tandem axle trailers needed them in some states.

mine need an overhaul, don't work worth a damn.

nice tow rig :)

[Blackntan90]

Man, thats a bummer! I do believe that trailer brakes should be in working order at least from an insurance standpoint, if not the law also. I have to keep mine in top shape, because I tow with a mid-size truck! I have drums on both axles-does a good job, but more to maintain.

[denwbaseball]

Well I had a buddy with a sandblaster and a MIG welder weld the "clip" back together....hope it holds!!!! I'm going to try to get out for the FIRST time tomorrow after work! wish me luck, I don' think anything else could possibly go wrong!haha

[michael hunter]

I just got an ad from Overtons they stock the complete assb. I think it is a
Attwood.

[FoiltechLaunch21V]

This may be what you need. For the whole assembly. You can get the latch from places like Tractor Supply.

http://www.overtons.com/modperl/product/details.cgi?i=27594&pdesc=Tie_Down_Brake_Actuator&cname=Trailer-Brakes-Hubs&aID=603I&merchID=1009&r=view

[Blackntan90]

Personally, I would not mess around with a part like that- replace it!

[denwbaseball]

Wow....its really not my year guys! Ok so I took the boat out for the first time after work Yesterday and it ran ok at best. Top speed was fine and the engine sounded fine. But getting out of the hole was terrible! It took a good 40sec for the boat to get up to speed to plane. I would give it throttle and it would only sputter a very very little bit and then just gradually climb in rpm's. Think the carb needs a good cleaning? any sugestions?

[michael hunter]

denw
Have you changed the points? Could be bad gas, if the carb has never been rebuilt
probubly needs it . Start with points and condenser minimum. Skidim has original equipment
PCM Ign parts. If it hasn't been done I would do a complete tune up [Dist cap,rotor,
spark plug wires and plugs fuel filter] Order the carb kit with float too it will only improve
your performance.

[denwbaseball]

Points and condenser where just changed....first time out with them on. I had a marina put them on...

[csuggs]

If you're going to do anything with the ignition, get rid of the points and install a Pertronix electronic ignition. It's a simple fix, more reliable, and never needs adjusting. Quick starts every time!
As for bad gas ;) I have to say that a few years ago I started mixing fuel stabilizer with gasoline near the end of the season on all my power equipment, including the boat. While it's layed-up over the winter, the gas stays fresh and doesn't "varnish" in the carb. Since I started that practice, I've never had a problem with gas in the spring. :D

[Salty87]

Points and condenser where just changed....first time out with them on. I had a marina put them on...

is this the same marina that put your pump on backwards? i'd double check their work if so

[denwbaseball]

Yep same place...I don't even know how to check. What should I look for?

[denwbaseball]

I don't mean to sound helpless but when I look at carb rebuild kits I'm not sure what one I need...can anyone help me out with a link or something?

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I just got a carb rebuild kit it is the only one for 351s they offer part# 0421 for Holley 4160. "Base Gasket Not Included (Item 1127) This kit does Not include the secondary Diaphram (secondary diaphram is normally not needed for rebuild) includes powervalve. Click on picture for more details.
Check your bowl screws (4 primary, 4 secondary) if they have phillips heads you need to replace them with Item # 0422 and 0423."

"HOLLEY CARBURETOR REBUILD KITS. Kits are available for all Holley Marine Carburetors. Each kit contains all parts and gaskets necessary to restore like new performance to your marine carburetor EXCEPT the spacer gasket loacated under the carburetor. Be sure to order SKIDIM NUMBER 1127, spacer gasket also.
Detailed instructions are also included to guide you through the rebuilding process. Simply provide the list number located on the carburetor’s air horn, as shown, for proper identification. This kit is for list numbers: 7163, 9392, 50419, 50463, 80265, 50469, 50469-1, 80456, 80319-1 and 75009-1. "

http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RN0120-1

But I don't know that you're having a carb problem....maybe with your new electronic ignition you need to have the timing adjusted again. Did they do that??? Not too sure buddy but I barely noticed this thread I would post a new thread to get some attention.

[saltare inverts]

Second skidim they will help u out.

[michael hunter]

Points and condenser where just changed....first time out with them on. I had a marina put them on...

If you have access to a dwell meter the points should be set at 30 degrees.
If not take the Dist cap off bump the engine over untill the points are on the high side
of the 8 sided dist shaft the points should be open about .019 [ thickness of a match book cover].

[denwbaseball]

Crap I'm so clueless when it comes to the points and cap and stuff!! When you say the high side of the dist. shaft...I'm not real sure what that means. Is this checking the timing? Also I'm pretty sure the carb has never beed rebuilt since I've owned the boat and when I was having the pump problems it was poping I'm just hoping a rebuild kit will do it. But I'll for sure check the some other stuff too. I really don't want to take it anywhere again...I've lost all faith in those people!!

[Hematoma]

Dens the best thing you can do for yourself is learn to work on that motor yourself. Peeps are shady these days. Once you get comfortable with how it all works and comes together you'll be golden. You'll save yourself time and heart ache. It really pays off if you have a minor problem out on the water. Good luck.

[michael hunter]

den
Sorry for the poor description. Remove the dist cap and rotor Looking down at the points
there is a octagon shaped metal piece attached to the center shaft. As the shaft
spins the points ride on this piece. Every time they get to the high side the points will
open[match book thickness] when the points open the coil will fire. Have someone crank the engine wile you look at the points it will be clear.

[denwbaseball]

If its out of wack what will I see?

[Salty87]

can you get a friend to show you? even someone who just knows cars. points are points.

it's not rocket science but the first time can be confusing.

i posted in your other thread....you need to develop a plan. systematically go through a list checking things off...cheap and easy stuff first. hematoma is right...you need to learn your boat and how all of that stuff works. shops will bleed you dry of money.

out of whack points will have too large of a gap or too small. the contact face of the points could be worn down too if they weren't replaced.

this is a decent summary of your distributor, it talks about points too... http://auto.howstuffworks.com/ignition-system4.htm

looking at the 2nd diagram on that link:
as part E (dist cam) spins with the engine running
part D (cam follower) rides up and down the face of the octagon
that causes part B (POINTS) to open and close. when they close together, current passes. when they're open (separated) current can't pass. if the gap isn't correct or the faces of the points are corroded, you'll get a crappy spark or none. no spark, no go.

[denwbaseball]

Yea, I really have no friends that know much about this kind of stuff. Maybe I'm just better off taking it in again....I just don't want to mess anything else up.

[Salty87]

Yea, I really have no friends that know much about this kind of stuff.

you'll have better luck with someone older. cars used to have points back when people worked on their own cars more often. i had a neighbor show me how it all worked many years ago.


Maybe I'm just better off taking it in again....I just don't want to mess anything else up.

it might be worth it to you to just get it running. it will be easier to maintain but you've already seen that shops aren't perfect. you can pay the big bill and still be screwed.

[denwbaseball]

I think I may try to rebuild the carb, cause I've done it before on a motorcycle so I'm a little more formilar in that department...and then see if I can figure out the timing thing...and if none of that works I'm going to have to take it in....is there any chance that it could be a carb issue?

Also just to clairfy its running, but has trouble idling cold, and has a hard time getting up to speed...once up to speed everything is fine and once is warm it idles fine.

[Salty87]

it could be, but i can't even remember what the original problem is. normally, a mechanic would check through the easy stuff first to narrow the problem down. then, if it's not just something that needs adjustment, they'll start suggesting ways of sending your money.

personally, from the sounds of things, i don't know if it's a good idea to run off and rebuild the carb. you don't know that's the problem and you could mess up the rebuild giving yourself another gremlin to track down.

go back to your new thread and work through the problem, don't toss parts at it.

[Salty87]

you added some info to your post....i'd check the choke before i did a single other thing.

[denwbaseball]

I'll do that!! Thanks for the help man!!! If you have any other ideas let me know otherwise I'll post what I find with the choke.

[denwbaseball]

is there a good way to tell if the choke is working properly without being in the water?...when I turn the key on(not started) and give it throttle the choke plate should open right? and with the key on ready to be started it should be almost shut?

[Hematoma]

So let me get this straight it idles like crap when cold but gets up a goes fine? Once it warms up it idles fine? Whats the question again;) Its a carbed V-8 they dont like cold starts I would say its pretty typical on 80% of them to idle crappy first thing in the morning.

Lets try and narrow things down abit before we get ahead of ourselves. Seems to be a few of us with some knowledge a may be able to help you and save you some money.

1. Take your plugs out and look at the electrode. Is it black with CARBON. If so its running RICH. If the electrode is WHITE its running lean. It needs to be a nice tan color.
2. I would change plug wires if you havent already. or atleast inspect them.
3. look at those POINTS. You can clean them with emery cloth. They tend to build up crap on them from the arching process. It does take alot of pressure to get clean so dont bare down like your sanding wood.

Try those things first. Take pics if you can it will help us help you.

[Hematoma]

is there a good way to tell if the choke is working properly without being in the water?Dens take your flame arrestor off the carb and turn your motor on. The choke should be closed. Once it begins to get up to temp the choke plate should start to open. you can do this sitting in the drive way. Just hook up your water.

[denwbaseball]

Ok it idles like crap cold.......and it has a hard time getting up to speed(30-40 sec to plane). However once it is on plane and up to speed its fine at that speed, but once I slow down or stop and have to get it back up to speed its the same story. And once the engine is good and warm it idles fine. So the question is what is causing the boat to idle bad cold and what would cause the boat to take so long to accel.?

[Salty87]

And once the engine is good and warm it idles fine.

once it's good and warm, does it still take forever to get on plane?

[denwbaseball]

Yes Saltey it still takes forever.

I just went home for lunch and looked at it, I took the air filter off before I turned the key forward and the choke plate was wide open(vertical), I turned the key on and it stayed the same I even started it for a sec. just to see if it would move running and still no change. I didn't have time to let it warm up....what do you think?

[Salty87]

it should close once you've turned the key to on and pumped the throttle. you can use a finger to hold it closed while you turn the key to start. or, since it will start, close it while it's running...should smooth things out.

let's just go from there...

you've got a hose hooked up, right? even if you don't have an attachment, stick the hose in the transmission cooler. you'll need to disconnect the water intake hose from the tranny cooler. impellers don't last long running dry.

[denwbaseball]

While its running and warm how far closed should it be? Do you think this could be cause all the problems?

[Salty87]

while it's running and warmed up, it should be open.

sounds like you've got something else going on. if the choke is open like you said above, when you're warmed up it would already be in the correct running position.

still, it needs to be adjusted if it won't close on it's own. don't move on until this is set correctly. you need to eliminate issues to find the problem.

read page 9... http://www.holley.com/data/Products/Technical/199R7948-5.pdf

[Hematoma]

Ok we have established more than likely your choke prolly doesn't work. Which really is no biggie. I dont even have a choke on my boat. Once we get yours going good you prolly wont even need it.

Dens if you get a chance hook the water up to your boat and take the flame arrester off. Start the boat and look down the carb venturis you should see 4 little things that look sorta like upside down tobacco pipes. You should have fuel coming out of the front 2. Now undo your throttle linkage and MANUALLY operate the throttle you need to give it enough gas to get the secondaries to open. When you do this you should see fuel coming out of all 4 little pipe things or nozzles. If you dont get any fuel out the back 2 the carb needs to be rebuilt. I'm pretty sure your carb is like mine and has vacuem secondaries. That might be why it is such a turd getting up on plain.

[Hematoma]

Heres a pic of my carb I had to replace the power valve in mine today and fix a broken j-tube. You'll notice no choke. But do you see the 2 nozzle things I am reffering to in the above post. You should have fuel coming out of the 2 in front at idle and part throttle the back 2 open up at a pre-set vacuem and then you get fuel to the back also.

[denwbaseball]

Why do I need to undo the linkage? Just curious...

[Hematoma]

Why do I need to undo the linkage? Just curious...Well not really the linkage but the cable. Should have a ball socket type deal. If its like mine with the cable still attached you cant move it.

[denwbaseball]

But why cann't I just operate it regular without unhooking stuff? Isn't it the same as reving the engine in nutural, or no?

[Hematoma]

Hey Dens I'm bout run up to my boat storage and change an alternator belt I'll take some pics of what I'm talkin about, so if you need some visuals it may help.

[Hematoma]

But why cann't I just operate it regular without unhooking stuff? Isn't it the same as reving the engine in nutural, or no?Well if you can work your shift/throttle lever and look down into the carb you need to be playing basketball. Its hard to move the linkage if your cable is still attached. With it attached your trying to slide the cable and move the lever. Its not complicated at all.

[denwbaseball]

good point! haha

[Hematoma]

good point! hahaLOL now you understand WHY?:D

[denwbaseball]

Ok I ran it on the hose and unhooked the cable like you said. I reved it up super high and nothing coming out the back two....and in the front two some of the gas was squirting out of a screw that is inbetween the two ports but still "inside" where the gas still goes where it should.... not sure if thats normal or not?

[DKJBama92Mariah]

No matter how much you rev it up in neutral the engine will not produce enough vacuum to open the secondaries. To check their function you must be out on the water, in gear, to put a load on the engine.

This sounds like either fuel starvation or severely retarded timing. When was the last time the fuel filter was replaced?

The timing could be off as a result of the work the last mechanic did on it. Do you have access to a timing light?

[denwbaseball]

No I don't have access to a timing light.
Filter was changed over a year ago.

[Hematoma]

Good luck the EXPERTS will have you running in know time.

[denwbaseball]

Hematoma don't bail on me now! What do you think man?

[Hematoma]

Hematoma don't bail on me now! What do you think man?Dkj is right I F'd up on the secondaries. You should of had a nice spray out the 2 front nozzles. I think DKJ is on track with the timing. Hows your fuel consumption? Does it use a crap load of gas?

[denwbaseball]

its for sure not spraying out a good amount....it sparys out a little and then some squirts out of that screw....but if its not squirting out of that screw you can hardly even see the gas being sprayed.

[DKJBama92Mariah]

The squirting as you advance the throttle is the accelerator pumps; they supply extra fuel while opening the throttle to keep the engine from bogging. At idle, I wouldn't expect there to be a whole lot of gas pouring in. It doesn't take much at all to just keep it running. As engine rpm increases in neutral there should be a corresponding increase in the amount of fuel spraying in the primaries, but again it doesn't take much to rev an engine under no load and you cant hold the throttle open wide enough, long enough to see it without overrevving the engine. At WOT (wide open throttle) in the water, the four barrels will look like a damn shower-head is spraying into them. If your engine is backfiring, do not attempt to observe this; you could easily lose your eyebrows or worse.

Hematoma, I'm actually starting to lean towards a fuel supply problem myself. My reasoning being that a timing issue should also show up when revving the engine in neutral as well. Your thoughts?

denw,
I would start by replacing the fuel filter. At that age, it is automatically suspect. It is just one of those maintenance items you should just plan to replace every season. I would order two and keep a spare onboard aswell. Fuel starvation can also be caused by:
1. A clog in the carb itself,
2. A clogged fuel vent hose or anti-siphon valve
3. crap clogging up the screen on the fuel pickup in the tank

[DKJBama92Mariah]

If you want to take care of this engine by yourself, I think a timing light would be a worthwhile investment. You don't need anything fancy, just the basic cheapo Actron brand with one button. They are something like $30-40 at any major auto parts store. If you get the light, there are plenty folks here that can talk you through using it. It's not brain surgery, just something you're not familiar with.

I didn't learn to use one until last year when I replaced my protec system with a mallory magnetic breakerless distributor. Hell, I'm 29, probably old to some of you, and I've never owned a car with a real distributor; sad I know. Since I really have no other use for it, I just added to the onboard tool stash.

[Salty87]

denw...i say you stick with this. you need to get it all figured out.

think about this...and i'm not saying you need to do all of this....for what you'll nearly end up paying a mechanic, you could get a new edelbrock carb and a new electronic distributor. those will run you about $600 +/-, you may not need them both but the money you pay mechanics is money that could be better spent.

think about it...it'$ worth it to figure all of this stuff out.

[Hematoma]

I just got back from the river and I had a timing issue. I replaced my power valve yesterday with a 3.5 instead of the 6.5 :o I would use 27 gallons of gas in one day. I believe that 6.5 had a hole in it and was also way to much. Skidim.com sells a 2.5, I could only get a 3.5 locally.

Anyways I put my timing light on it yesterday after changing the power valve thinking my timing was a bit retarded. I couldn't really see the marks due to the sun, Anyways that chit was way off when we hit the water this morning. I could barely pull my 9 yr old out of the water with empty ballest. It took for ever to plane out. So I did a little adjustment by ear and boy I couldnt be happier. Between the new power valve and the timing its runnign verywell.

Long story short Dens get yourself a timing light and check that timing! My boat was acting like yours, it didnt want to idle very well at first and had no power. Between the 3 of us I'm sure Dk, Salty and I can walk you thru it.

[denwbaseball]

Thanks for the info guys!!! I'm going to replace the filter and get that timing light. I'm sure when I get the light I'll be asking for some more help!haha But that won't be till next Sat. at the earliest cause my job requires me to travel a lot! So I'll be in Memphis for the next week or so...but please keep feeding me with ideas if they come up...I'll prolly order all the supplies online so there waiting for me when I get home....Along with some new ape hangers for my motorcycle! I have to many toys!!!

[denwbaseball]

I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of the correct fuel filter I need so I can order and it be at my house by the time a get back from my trip....

[gerdy]

my trailer does not have brakes i dont have a problem stopping but trailer brakes are nice too have.

[michael hunter]

If its a fram housing [orange top black bottom]

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/waterpump003.jpg

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Hey Dennis this is an easy one - SkiDIM only offers one fuel filter/water seperator for all 351's. I just changed mine this last weekend. You only have to remove one single bolt in the top center of the filter and it drops off the bottom. Catch it and put a rag beneith it because it is full of gas! The new one comes with some o-rings but it is likely the old ones will still be stuck on, so check that out before sticking more o-rings into the mix.

[michael hunter]

They are also available at the auto parts store.

[csuggs]

Same fuel filter that's on my boat - got it from skidim.

[denwbaseball]

Ok I replaced the fuel filter, checked the plugs they looked good....and I bought a timing light expecting to have instuructions but no such luck. It only has one botton and has two cables for the bat. and it has one more, not sure where to put that one....

Can anyone guide me on how to use this darn thin?

Scattered storms today so doubt I'll get it out today, but hopfully tomarrow...

Happy Fathers Day to all you Dads!

[denwbaseball]

Bump...........

[csuggs]

The extra wire on your timing light goes over the #1 cylinder spark plug wire. Then you need to find the timing mark on your crank-shaft pulley or harmonic balancer.

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I took the boat out today and the back to ports on the carb aren't kicking in under load.....I watched while tryiing to plane and nothing. So is it carb rebuild kit time?

[Hematoma]

Ok so I took the boat out today and the back to ports on the carb aren't kicking in under load.....I watched while tryiing to plane and nothing. So is it carb rebuild kit time?Ding Ding Ding! we have a winner folks. I posted that this could be your problem a couple pages back. Glad you where able to look and see what they where doing. Yes time for a rebuild. Its pretty ez. My rebuild kit came with instructions and a nice exploded diagram of everything.