Electrial Issues on a 87 Sunsport

[FecalFajita]

So last fall I had some electrical issues where the battery would drain if hooked up, and wires would get hot and melt.

I ended up replacing the battery cables, starter solenoid, and got a breakerless ignition kit. ( http://www.skidim.com/prodinfo.asp?number=RP173072 )

That seemed to fixed the issue for months, until today. Now if I turn the key on (not starting the motor) The coil on the engine gets extremely hot and the volt meter on the dash starts to dip after a while. I've had my boat out once since I did the previous fix and it has been fine, and I've spent countless hours with the stereo on in the boat with no issues.

Is there a common part to check, and how should I go about checking this?

[oldsupra]

do you have your ballest resistor hooked up rite???? if you do replace your balast restor

[knoble]

Do you have one of those battery "savers" or monitors that is hooked into your positive battery cable? Those things are junk and have caused a lot of hassle to me and several other people! If you have it, disconnect it and see if you still have problrms. That thing would drain my battery extremely quickly!

:cool:

[FecalFajita]

The ballast resistor was removed when I got the breakerless ignition. And no stupid battery monitors or anything like that...

;( I just finished all of my other projects today, after two months of working on it. And now this pops up just in time for my family reunion at the lake this whole weekend...Bummer.

[FecalFajita]

Any recommendations? Good place to start? Anything worth reading for electrical problems?

[oldsupra]

if you removed the balest restor then you MUST HAVE A INTERNALY RESISTED COIL RITE ????? you cant use your old coil without the balest resister

[FecalFajita]

That could definitely be the case, Skidim didn't tell me about that...Hmm.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Maybe you can call someone up like SkiDIM

[knoble]

I agree! You need that ballast resistor! I switch to electronic ignition, a mallory and used the ballast resistor and it works fine!

:cool:

[rickr]

Correct me if I am wrong, but, I thought a ballast resistor is used to reduce voltage across the points to make them last longer. The resistor is bypassed during crankiing to provide extra spark.

My boat came with Petronics with resistor bypassed. She runs great.

Supra is at the lake, I'll check the coil next time I'm there for internal or external.

I would call Skidim.

[oldsupra]

my boat has the pertronx ingtor and was wired without the balest resistor so the coil became very hot --i called pretronx they said that without the balest it would also over heat the ingtor and the boat will not run rite so i ordered a internaly resisted coil from them and have not had a problem

[csuggs]

I agree! You need that ballast resistor! I switch to electronic ignition, a mallory and used the ballast resistor and it works fine!

:cool:

Ditto for me except Pertronix Ignitor

[FecalFajita]

Ok, So I got a new coil that is internally resisted. Batteries were fully charged before we took it out, after an hour they didn't have enough juice to start the motor. I also noticed that the voltage gauge never goes above 12v, So I ordered a new alternator. I'm not sure why the batteries are discharging though. I have new battery cables and everything seems to be hooked up right. Is it possible that my old alternator is grounding the system somehow?

[FecalFajita]

Also, what does everyone mean exactly by "bypassing" the resistor?

[knoble]

With just having the key in the on position and the coil gets hot leads me to believe you need a ballast resistor! It reduces your volts to the coil! Check your voltage to the coil. It's easy to check with just a volt meter. Basically if your battery reads 14V while running your positive side of the coil should read ~12V-12.5V but no more, if it does you need a ballast resistor added to the wire.
Start your boat and bring it up to a fast idle, around 1500 RPM. First, record voltage at the battery.
Next, record voltage at the positive side of the coil. For optimum ballast resistance, you should have a 1.0 to 1.5 volt drop at the positive side of the coil. A voltage drop greater than 1.5 volts suggests too much resistance. A voltage drop less than 1.0 volts could burn out the spark module when installed.
Verification of a Ballast Resistance Wire According to Mallory Ignition: The test as specified by the Mallory E-Spark Instructions are very similar to the verbal test offered by Crane Cams tech support, only Mallory suggests that the test be taken at idle, not 1500 RPMs. Here is the test per the E-Spark instruction sheet.
One easy way to find if your vehicle has a loom resistance wire is to test your stock ignition system voltage while the engine is at idle at the COIL (+) terminal. If the measured voltage is within 1-volt of battery voltage, an ignition ballast resistor must be installed in the wire from the ignition switch.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

It seems very very odd to me that you can have fully charged battery and the boat won't start within an hour? Did you check the voltage at the battery when the boat is not starting to be sure it is the batteries' fault? With my alt completly removed I am able to board all day on two fully charged batteries they dont seem to get low at all. Good luck with that...

[FecalFajita]

So I put the new alternator on today. It pushes 13.8v at idle and 14.6v above idle. Awesome!

If I try to use the key to start the motor, It blows the circuit breaker. So I had to start the motor by shorting the starter solenoid, So it looks like I blew the solenoid, even though I just replaced it.

Readings across the coil (from positive to negative) when the motor is off reads the same as the batteries. However, when the motor is running, It reads around 6.7v. If I try reading the positive side of the coil while using the engine as a ground, it read -1v...

The motor starts and runs fine though (as long as I short the solenoid).

Any ideas? I'm ready to take this thing to a shop, because I can't keep replacing solenoids...

[chautauquasun]

I also bought the Petronix ignition from Skidim but have yet to install it. Having read a few of these posts i am confused. Can I just install the Petronix in the distributor with the original coil and balast resistor or do I also need to up grade to a internally resisted coil?

thanks

[csuggs]

I used the original coil and ballast resistor. No problems.

[Blackntan90]

I also have had no issues with my stock ignition with pertronix ignitor/pickup installed for about 4 years now!

[knoble]

It kind of sounds like you have miss wires your coil and solenoid! I cannot know for sure but those volt readings you are giving are really wacky! What is it at the solenoid? and at the positive on the starter? i am going to post I PCM basic wiring schematic on my personal page/ album. Hopefully this will help in your issues!

:cool:

[FecalFajita]

Thanks for the wiring diagram.

As far as I can tell, it's wired exactly the same, other than my ballast resistor is removed and wired right though, and instead I have an internally resisted coil. I talked to someone from skidim.com today, and they said that should be fine. Maybe they're wrong though..?

Today I put a new solenoid in it, and it didn't change a thing - Turn the key, and all gauges and electrical turns off instead of activating the starter. If I short the solenoid, the starter fires up and the boat starts like nothing is wrong, besides the coil giving strange readings...

[knoble]

It sounds like you have a short some where on the starting circuit. You are grounding out on one of those wires. I would check the positive battery cable, the positive going to your dash, and the wire going to the solenoid for a short. It has to be shorting on a ground or another wire to make the dash do that.

[FecalFajita]

Ok, So I tore the dash apart and found some strangeness...I (crudely) modified the diagram Knoble gave me to show you guys what I'm dealing with here...

Black Pearl:

https://forum.supraboats.com/picture.php?albumid=35&pictureid=241

Standard PCM:

https://forum.supraboats.com/picture.php?albumid=11&pictureid=239

[knoble]

nothing is showing up on your diagram!?!?!?

[FecalFajita]

You can't see the image? or it's blank? or..what?

[knoble]

Black Pearl:



Standard PCM:



this is all I see!

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I see everything. I don't see any issues there, although I currently do not have my spare battery hooked into the ignition switch. Is there any kind of battery seperator/combiner/relay (IE perko, BlueSea, SurePower)? Good luck man.

Hey sorry I didn't call you on Sunday my cell was dead, charger at work, your # at work. I will ring you this weekend if you want.

[FecalFajita]

Well I tore the dash all apart, found a few mis-wirings, and installed a 4 post ignition switch. Before the buzzer/speaker was unplugged, and the hour meter would go up if you had the key on. That's all sorted out and it starts and runs normally now!

Hopefully it stays that way...if not I'm probably going to take it to a shop to have it checked out.

Thanks for the help everyone.

MikeyD, Give me a call, I should be around...possibly even with a working boat!

[FecalFajita]

I took the boat out last night and it ran perfectly. But for some reason the breaker popped the first time I turned the engine off. After pushing the magic red button it worked fine, and didn't pop at all after that.

So, what exactly causes the breaker to trip? Also, with the new 105 amp alternator, should I upgrade the wiring to a larger gauge?

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I called Ron at DB Electrical where I got the alt and he said yes just upgrade wire from the alt to the batt. I haven't done it yet and it seemed to work fine so far but I will do it asap.

Is it windy today, or what??? I decided not to go out. :(

[FecalFajita]

Good to know. Did he mention what gauge?

Yeah, I made the mistake of actually going out...

We went to White Bear Lake and most of the lake looked like the ocean. We were getting tons of spray, it was like getting buckets of water thrown at us, and we got there just in time for clouds to roll in and block the sun so it was kind of chilly at the same time. There were two small shorelines where we could actually ride, so it wasn't a total loss. I haven't rode with ballast since last fall... You've gotta love the wake behind the Sunsport!

I figured out today that you guys are right, and skidim seems to be wrong about the whole ballast resistor thing...I'll be buying a ballast resistor soon...My coil was definitely getting hot. It made starting the motor very hard until it cooled off. Everything else ran smooth though.