Mods and a recent thread [Archive]

jonyb

06-22-2009, 08:00 PM

I asked a question about why Skier's Choice doesn't get on here, but posts all the time over on teh Moomba boards, and all of it was deleted. I'd like an answer to that. I think it's pretty poor that the only people that post on here are members and not employee's or any kind of customer service. Other companies post on public forums with tech support on their product, why can't Skier's Choice do that here? You can't call Skier's Choice and get an answer, and surely can't do it here either.....

mapleleaf

06-22-2009, 09:25 PM

I don't know where to chime in on this because my experience with SC is minimal, as an Old Supra owner I don't have a lot of need to communicate with them, However Brian Raymond was pretty helpful on some advice I needed last year and for that I was thankful....
On the other hand, your investment in them is very different than mine, and Ya, you should be getting some answers, seems like it came up a bunch this winter about how hard it was to have a phone call returned.....

jonyb

06-22-2009, 09:27 PM

Most of my issues were resolved, but it took some bitching on Wakeworld and a reply from RickT to get that done. Being at Skier's Choice in person, calling, and most importantly coming here, didn't solve anything.

tg0824SSVGG

06-22-2009, 09:41 PM

John,

I know why the post was deleted - I didn't do it - but I agreed with the reason.

Anyway - I wonder what is up, because just today - someone posted about a great
experience with SC tech support, on the phone - sounds VERY different from what
you experieneced.

I have no ties to SC other than having purchased a very expensive boat just like yours, and I haven't had to talk to anyone other than Natalie - via email - for anything.

She was super responsive, so again, my experience doesn't mirror yours. I have also
often wondered why we don't see more involvement here from SC, but given the latest
round of layoffs - I wonder if there are more than about 3 people working there in the
office!

Just my $.02 ...
Todd

jonyb

06-22-2009, 10:22 PM

And that reason would be? Because of my post? They don't want bad things said on here, but they don't want to get involved either.

I'm part owner of a small business as most of you know. I work a full-time job, and still manage the business and keeping everybody happy. I go on no sleep, put money out of my pocket, make 45 minute trips with gas money out of my pocket then don't charge anything, and do anything it takes to make MY customer happy. They're not buying boats from me. My average local customer spends less than $2,500, but some spend a lot more. No matter how much they spend, even if it's $50, they always have good things to say. I have no storefront and operate by word of mouth. I don't have to sell, people know what they want, and who they want it from. I make 1 guy happy, he tells 5 more about me.

So what about the people that build $50-$60,000 boats? They can't even offer tech support or even join in a conversation ON THEIR OWN WEBSITE!

I'm sure someone's gonna come in here and make this one go "poof" too. Whatever, it just shows me what kind of company we have here. My Supra owning experience gets passed on as well.

Oh well, gotta go... gotta go fix something else on my boat that was screwed up at the factory. Why do they use self-tapping screws in movable panels on a boat anyway?

87SunSportMikeyD

06-23-2009, 11:09 AM

No offense, but this site is just a chat room to me. I admit it would be cool to actually have someone from Supra on here, but I don't really miss it. It's not like there are reps from CM or CC on their sites that I have seen. Maple is totally right that your sale is waay different from mine. I expect next to nothing from Supra - I do it all myself and I am proud of it. If I bought it new, I would expect everything MAJOR to work. Again no offense but I wouldn't bat an eye if I found a loose screw. That just seems really minor.

jonyb

06-23-2009, 08:04 PM

You say that seems minor, but it's added to a 2 page list of things that I've already fixed or still have to fix.

The point is that I should'nt have to make an improvement to my $65000 boat because they did something half-fast. My vinyl is messed up now from where it hits the other panel when you drop it. The holes where the self-tapping screws are "wallered" out, so that panel flexes about 1.5". Yes, minor, but something else I dont have time to fix.

Those minor issues add up when you're also adding poor customer service to the equation.

I also look at this as a chat forum. I admire you guys for your boats. Just because they're a little older doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with them. I know you can't expect anything from Supra, but I've had issues since day one. I haven't followed through with most of them like I should have because the dealer is 3 hours away, and the first 3 times I called asking for something I never got a call back. Add that to the equation.

sandm

06-23-2009, 09:30 PM

I have seen your posts on many forums complaining about skiers choice. some seem like legit issues, and I do agree that you pay a lot of money for a boat and it should not have many issues, but some are going to happen, just like a car. I do have to say that your dealer should be the first line of fixing issues. it isn't skiers fault that you are 3 hours away from a dealer. if your chevy truck breaks, you don't call gm directly, you see the dealer no matter where they are. give them the first chance, then go to skiers and get them to fix the dealer.
these are just forums, not tech repair sites. I spend most of my time on the moomba forums as they seem to have a better wakesurf community and can attest that sc is not any more active on that forum than here in a tech capacity. natalie spent a little more time over there, but not fixing issues or responding to complaints, but organizing events since it seems there's a large group of moomba owners in the south.

good luck with your boat and I am sure that skiers will help take care of you, but bitching all over the place will just make the wheels turn slower in my experience.

jonyb

06-23-2009, 10:50 PM

I understand some things are gonna happen, but some of it is me wanting extra stuff for something I'm changing that only a dealer can get, or fixing issues where they cut corners or something has broke. Well, the dealer was worthless. I called and asked about a part that I wanted to BUY, they said "let me call and find out, I'll call you back". No callback, and that was about 3 times in a row. That's why I proceed to SC, leaving messages, waiting days for callbacks, only to be told "call the dealer". So now after the last round, I've decided I'll call a dealer in Knoxville, which is 6 hours away.

If my Chevy truck breaks I won't call GM? Wrong.... If the dealer treats me teh same way as my selling dealer did, I'd call GM.

Sure, this isn't a tech repair site, but when someone asks for a part number off of something on the boat, they never get an answer. The main point is that SC isn't here defending their product or taking care of their customers. Does Skier's Choice not own this forum? I can understand them not being on wakeworld or wb.com, but this is a forum from their main site. A little customer service goes a long way. No customer service stops the show.

I remember a thread where natalie posted about getting free stuff with a boat purchase. A customer comes on here and explains a situation about how that was BS. I'm not taking sides, all I can say is there's a customer posting here that's very unhappy, and didn't get what they were told they would get, and Natalie never came back to respond. No one responded. Was the customer ever satisfied? Maybe, who knows. Looks to me like they weren't.

jonyb

06-23-2009, 10:52 PM

BTW, I've had a few pms from other members here that didn't want to post in this thread, but felt the same way. They've had similar issues that haven't been dealt with.

Companies are hurting, it's time to step up the service and kiss a customer's cheek. Or should we kiss theirs, then sign the check?

michael hunter

06-24-2009, 12:14 AM

One of the best parts about this forum is the lac of control by SC. You can talk about anything including other brands good or bad. [Try that on MC Team.] If you have a problem you will get the answer here. I also own an older Supra way out of warranty. I have only needed to contact SC a couple times but I was always satisfied with the service. If you own a boat there is always something to tighten, repair or replace weather its new or 20 years old. If you are very lucky you have a good dealer. They can make a bad boat good or a good boat bad. There are a lot of good dealers out there if yours isn't helping you go to another. I would contact SC and see if they can help find a dealer you can work with. I own a 08 with 22 hours its not a 3 hour drive to the dealer but still a PITA to bring back. I have had my share of small problems that were covered under warranty but its just easier for me to repair it myself. No boat is perfect no matter what the price.
Overall SC has a good reputation for quality and custermer service.

jonyb

06-24-2009, 04:20 AM

I have had my share of small problems that were covered under warranty but its just easier for me to repair it myself. No boat is perfect no matter what the price.
Overall SC has a good reputation for quality and custermer service.

And so far I've fixed ALL of my own issues that I've had time to fix. My last 2 boats didn't need 10 minutes of wrench time the whole time I had them. I've put that in mine twice a week in the last 2 years. I have a dealer in mind that I'm gonna call next time I need parts. If something bad goes wrong then I guess I'm "out of luck" because I'm not towing it 6 hours to that dealer, through the mountains at that. I wish I could say my experience has been good, just like you've said, but that's not the case here.

Ed G

06-24-2009, 05:14 AM

jonyb wrote:

"I asked a question about why Skier's Choice doesn't get on here, but posts all the time over on teh Moomba boards, and all of it was deleted. I'd like an answer to that."

_______________

I deleted your comments from the Natalie Carrera thread and closed it.

Freedom of speech is one thing, but voicing your negative opinion about Skiers Choice on a thread devoted to saying good bye to a dear friend was not at all relavant to the topic and not at all appreciated.

e

csuggs

06-24-2009, 06:21 AM

I would just like to make a general comment about this whole customer service thing - not about any particular company but about what appears to be a growing "attitude" of some small and large companies. Hopefully Skier's Choice does not fall into the catagory of poor customer service because I may need their services myself one day!

The definition of "customer service" has somehow been lost or twisted into something that it's not. What it means is that a company does everything in its power to right a wrong and make a good experience for their hard-earned customer. It does not mean that you "give away the farm" to everyone that comes in your door, and it doesn't even mean that "the customer is always right" or that the company should meet his every demand. But it does mean that the company works diligently to provide the customer with what they paid for, and to do it in a friendly, timely fashion. Nothing is worse than to spend your hard-earned money on something that you are excited about, only to have the whole experienced ruined by poor customer service.

Jonyb - that being said, I sincerely hope that you can find a dealer or someone that can help you with your issues. Ask SC to direct you to a dealer that they recommend for good customer service. Let them know that your dealer has let you down - they need to know that. And remember - you'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. :)

RED WINE ROCKER

06-24-2009, 06:47 PM

Customer service....usally not found in bigger companies( too many people just there for the pay check....) it takes someone who deeply "cares" about the company to offer "serivce"....as far as issues here, the dealer is the go-to/thats one of their functions( some are better than others...no doubt)

As far as involvment in the web site....its a chat room and...thats it....we already own SUPRAS so there's no money in monitoring it(real world)....now it would be great to have a "Ask SUPRA" section but, PROBABLY would require effort/pay to get that done........i'm out for the evening set/ c-ya!

jonyb

06-24-2009, 09:30 PM

Ed, I understand.... I realized that after I posted, just never went back to delete it.

suggs, SC recommended a dealer in Knoxville for parts or service. I'll use them for parts I can't get on my own, but as for service, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. A Malibu dealer in Nashville services INdmar and they're 2.5 hours away. A dealer that I do stereo work for sells Centurion but does not service Indmar. I can probably get them to do the work as long as it isn't Indmar related.

RedWine, It's ultimately a chat room, but don't forget who owns it. I've come on here and lots of other forums before and offered tech support on marine audio systems, or anything that I feel I have knowledge on, and that's not part of my company. I'm not making a sale, and not making money. Am I required to do it? No, but I do it because that's my nature. That's why it's so hard for me to believe that they don't have an "Ask Supra" forum here. That shows me how much they care for their customers.

I love my boat. Don't get me wrong. I don't mind working on things, but I just don't have time. I think you guys don't quite understand what I've been through with this boat because it's not all explained fully. I haven't mentioned every single problem I've had, and won't. Add to it a 9 month old son, being an owner of a small business trying to survive and pay out 75% in taxes, a wife that works full-time, a swimming pool at home (I'd rather have a dirtpile), and other maintenance issues, it all adds up meaning my stuff, like the boat, doesn't get fixed when something stupid messes up like the ballast hatches.

mapleleaf

06-24-2009, 09:46 PM

Jony, hang in there, I hate it when the boat takes a backseat, but with a 15 month old, home reno, being self employed, yada yada... the choice is obvious.......I often find myself apologizing to the boat
They need to come up with a 27 hour day....
My two cents from another Johnny B, my friends actually call me Bon Johnny!

87SunSportMikeyD

06-24-2009, 10:21 PM

Jony I respect your comments.

maple, we need an extra day, not more hours, my friend! The days are long enough. We need a 2nd Sunday...but what to call it. Smoreboatdays?

csuggs

06-24-2009, 11:09 PM

Good thinkin' Mikey, I like that. A second Sunday would be awesome! It definitely is frustrating when we can't find time to work on our boats, much less enjoy them. Then when we have a chance, the weather doesn't cooperate a lot of times.
Like Leaf said - "Hang in there Jony" - it'll get better. Take it from a father of three (all boys), they grow up and then things really get fun! Sure it takes a lot of time to be involved with what they are involved in, but if you can get them to like or even love watersports, then the fun really starts! When my boys took an interest, it was like having a free pass from the wife to go buy the boat so we could do family boating! How cool is that?!
And as for your boat repairs - remember that we will always help and support you the best of our abilities - for whatever they're worth! :)

jonyb

06-25-2009, 12:16 AM

Thanks guys! We've had our son on the boat a few times this year, and when we're working weekends his grandparents take him out on their Baja. He absolutely loves being out there, so we're pretty stoked. The first time I had him out we were crossing the main lake, it was rough as could be, and he fell asleep! Between having him in the pool and the lake, I can tell he's gonna be a lake rat....

I'll take smoreboatdays anyday!

mapleleaf

06-25-2009, 06:01 AM

I think I may have one of those lake rats as well...Started pulling him back and forth across the shoreline in a tube and now he doesn't want out of it......
How small a wakeboard do they make?? LOL

jonyb

06-25-2009, 06:57 AM

Strap him to a piece of plywood :D

mapleleaf

06-25-2009, 07:05 AM

screw his Keen's to a board....I like it!

WadsworthSunsport22V

06-25-2009, 09:09 AM

If you are very lucky you have a good dealer. They can make a bad boat good or a good boat bad. There are a lot of good dealers out there if yours isn't helping you go to another. .... No boat is perfect no matter what the price.

I agree the dealer makes a Huge Difference. Many of you know I purchased my boat new from Chicago Sea Ray (Ultimate Wake). They have NO customer service and want to charge for warranty work! What is really laughable is because I complained to the GM and on this board, I have been removed from their invite list to the owners reunion, and other boating events they sponsor.

I moved about three months after purchasing my boat to Virginia and found a great GREAT dealer/shop. "The Boat Shop" in Mineral VA. Rob (owner) has come out to on the water after hours to find out why my check engine light is on (more than one occasion). He never charged me. He did bill Indmar. (Who responds to every email I have sent).

My poor experience with Chicago Sea Ray really made me question my choice in boats. I really regretted not purchasing a Malibu, but now that I have found The Boat Shop, I could not be happier!

michael hunter

06-25-2009, 10:52 AM

Wads
You aren't missing anything since the 2009 reunion has been cancelled. I am so happy to here about your new dealer and opinion about SC. Supra has been dear to my heart for 22 years. There are no dealers within 100 miles. The dealer I bought mine from is long gone.
I have a advantage over most of you. I was a auto mechanic for 20 years and I have a very well equipped 42x64 workshop. That being said I do all my own work. I don't like bringing my boats back unless absolutely necessary. Its a labor of love for me, tweaking and detailing my boats is almost as good as using them.

FoiltechLaunch21V

06-25-2009, 11:19 AM

Why do they use self-tapping screws in movable panels on a boat anyway?

They used self-tapping screws to hold the swim platform brackets on mine. With no backing plates. Go Figure??

thescott

06-25-2009, 02:19 PM

They used self-tapping screws to hold the swim platform brackets on mine. With no backing plates. Go Figure??

Does anyone know if they added backing plates to the swim deck mounts to 08's and beyond?

Sorry for being off topic...

sandm

06-25-2009, 02:21 PM

foil..
standard on all their boats.
makes ya wonder what happens when they strip out?
thrubolts under the swimpad would have made much more sense. kinda makes me think that a lot of boat manufacturers were trying to churn out the latest/greatest without a lot of design review while the boat market was hopping over the last 10 years.

I hope that during this lull in the market, some companies are having engineers spend time trying to make a better product, but something tells me they are just laying them off.

87SunSportMikeyD

06-25-2009, 02:55 PM

You remove the platform, epoxy the holes, and remount the platform with new holes. Not the end of the world unless you don't correct the problem for a period of time.

csuggs

06-25-2009, 03:19 PM

On my 86, the swim platform brackets were installed with 3/8" stainless bolts, going through the transom into a "T-nut" on the back side of the transom. When I installed my new platform brackets, I through-bolted them and used aluminum backing plates with nylon locknuts to spread the load a little. Are you sure that yours doesn't have a threaded t-nut on it? You wouldn't be able to see it from the outside of the boat.

FoiltechLaunch21V

06-25-2009, 03:37 PM

On the '06 21V there is a floor over the mounting area in the transom so you will have to cut a hole in the floor to get a backing plate in there so this leaves you with a hole in the floor in the storage area. I put an 8x10 aluminun plate on both side of mine (1/2" thick) with through bolts. No problem NOW!!! Still seems like a piss poor way to mount the brackets from the factory. Plus when I called the dealer here in Roxboro,NC they told me they could not get to it for a couple of months.

On a Good note I had the dealer in Knoxville TN send me a PM stating they would fix anything for me. Just a 7 hour trip. Thanks to those guys for stepping up!!!! We need more dealers like the Knoxville guys. I wish I lived closer to them.