Carb rebuild advise...

[denwbaseball]

Ok so my carb rebuild kit comes today and I'm going to start the rebuild tonight after work. Do any of you guys have any advise before I start? Things to watch out for? is it pretty striaght forward? How long should I expect it to take?

[Memmer99]

I just did my carb a few weeks ago. The advice I got was to get a bunch of little containers and group your parts. It took me about an hour to tear it down and clean all the old gasket material off. Then I soaked it over night, took about 45 minutes to put it all back together. I'd say the hardest part for me was installing the connections on the choke (fast idle cam and the little piston looking thing.) I still don't think my fast idle is working right. Take some pictures so you know how it goes back together.

[denwbaseball]

What did you soak it in?

[DKJBama92Mariah]

What did you soak it in?

You can buy carb or parts cleaner in a gallon jug at any auto parts store.

[denwbaseball]

Ok so here is the deal....I got the carb almost fully taken apart and I ran into a major snag!!! There is a silver colored plate once I get inside and there is about 6 screws holding it on and the screws require a tool I've never seen before. The plate is exposed when you remove on the float bowl housings. (if I'm calling it the correct thing) I looked online and I couldn't find it and I took it to AutoZone and they couldn't help me either. The screws are hard to explane they almost look like the are two mushrooms put together at the stems......

Also After opening up the rebuild kit its very very overwhelming! There is so so many tiny little rings and stuff like that. Will I be doing anything in the float bowls?

[michael hunter]

den
The best advice I can Give you is to Google [How to rebuild a Holley carburetor video]
There are many videos to look at. Good Luck.

[agetech]

Just use a screwdriver that will fit in the heads of the odd screws they are not that tight. My Craftsman 1/4 socket set had a bit that was similier to the heads on those screws. You will have to set the float level in the fuel bowl. You should also have some new inlet needle and seat fittings to install in the bowls.

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I just got the screws out!!! A few other questions...The first one is with the float bowls I'm just not seeing what I need to remove and replace...is there something on the outside of the housing that I need to remove? is on top or side? everything is covered in black paint and i removed some of the paint where I thought a bolt head was and it was just a flat cap. Also where are the float bowls supposed to sit are they to rest on the bottom or be suspended and in the middlle of the housing? any help on these bad boys would be great!

[denwbaseball]

Also is there an easier way to get the old gaskets off. I'm fighting with them big time and they still won't come all the way off!

Also will I use EVERYTHING in the rebuild kit????

[87SunSportMikeyD]

You will probably need some kind of scraping tool like a chisel and hammer to scrape all the gasket bits off. Carb cleaner helps some.

Good luck buddy it looks like you're doing really really good so far!!!!!!! If you can post a couple pics that will help us help you. :)

My dad did mine while I was away heheeh! What a guy~!

[Memmer99]

There are a bunch of extra parts in the kit that you will NOT use. Basically you replace everything you take off so keep all the old parts to match up when you reassemble.

I used an allen key (not sure what size) to remove and reinstall the odd size screws. A small flat head will work too.

[denwbaseball]

What about at the float bowls Memmer? I don't see what Im' supposed to remove. The outside is coated with black paint or something and when I chipped the paint away where there looked to be a bolt head there was just a steal cap....

[agetech]

After you take the bowls off, the floats will slide off the shaft. Then you can remove and replace the inlet needles and seats. Turn the bowl upside down, then set the float level.

[rludtke]

Ok so here is the deal....I got the carb almost fully taken apart and I ran into a major snag!!! There is a silver colored plate once I get inside and there is about 6 screws holding it on and the screws require a tool I've never seen before. The plate is exposed when you remove on the float bowl housings. (if I'm calling it the correct thing) I looked online and I couldn't find it and I took it to AutoZone and they couldn't help me either. The screws are hard to explane they almost look like the are two mushrooms put together at the stems......

Also After opening up the rebuild kit its very very overwhelming! There is so so many tiny little rings and stuff like that. Will I be doing anything in the float bowls?


Ok Den,

The centers of the two mushrooms on the funny looking screws are square, I improvised a square drive screwdriver bit used for deck screws. I had to file it down a little to fit into the screws on the carb.

The overhaul kit will supply many more small parts than you need (I don't know why, they must make them to fit multiple models). The big deal parts are the needle/seat assembly, the power valve (that is the big hex shaped thing that threads into the metering plate on the secondary side), the accelerator pump, and of course the gaskets and o-ring seals. So just carefully do a one for one exchange of parts. there will be an assortment of parts left over.

Cleanliness is key, even the oils from your fingers can cause problems with the needle to seat interface (avoid touching the black viton coating on the tip of the needle). tweezers are a good idea. Have some acetone handy for dipping/rinsing these parts in prior to assembly.

Soak the bare throttle body and other big parts once stripped down in carb cleaner, availible at auto parts store in spray cans or gallon buckets. The bucket is great for soaking, but if you you don't plan to do this again soon, it is a big investment in in a caustic chemical to have sitting around the garage. The spray cans are nearly as effective. You can rinse with water and let dry.

You will replace parts in the float bowl, as that is were the needle and seat assembly reside. A small plastic cover slides out to allow access to the seat. The needle comes out with the float, which is held in by a tiny circlip on the hinge shaft.

Shake the floats lightly next to your ear to listen for fluid inside. If their is fluid, they are leaking and need to be replaced. The floats do not come in the kit, and will need to be ordered seperately. Chances are the floats will be fine.

The float has a tab on it that a wire connecting the needle slides over to engage. This tab can be bent up or down (slightly) to adjust the float level.

The intial float level setting: With the float/needle/seat assembled into the float bowl, turn the bowl upside down, and adjust the tab until the flat bottom of the float (now on top because it is inverted) is parralell to the edge of the float bowl. this will get you close.

I make adjustments from there on the lake. Bring some wrenches to remove the float bowls, a small flat screw driver to make adjustments with, some paper towels, and an empty water bottle.

If the carb floods, or the engine runs smokey, it may be to rich (float level to high). If it stumbles on acceleration (like it is running out of fuel) the float level is to low.

Loosen/remove one bolt from the float bowl, and catch the fuel that runs out the bolt hole with your bottle. Then remove the remainder of the bolts. The screw driver can be inserted above or below the tab, and twisted slightly to bend the tab up or down. Think about your adjustment carefully, because it may seem counter-intuitive. You want your adjustment to control when the needle valve closes. If the level was previously to high, then you want the needle to close "sooner" or at a position when the float is physically lower. My memory is rusty, but I think that means the tab should move up.

The float bowl gaskets can handle quite a few assembly cycles, so don't worry about them too much if you need to do several adjustment iterations.

Their is one element that will not be addressed by the overhaul kit, but could be impacting the performance of your carberator. The butterfly shaft bushings on the throttle body will eventually were out, causing excess clearance. this will allow air to leak through, making the mixture lean. This can be difficult to compensate for with mixture adjustments. Check the shafts to see if they are rattling in the bushings, they should be tight, yet rotatable. If the clearance is excessive (you feel movement when you move the shaft up or down), then you may want to consider having a shop do the overhaul, or exchanging yours for an overhauled carburator. The overhaul shops change these bushings as a matter of course, and fine tune the settings on a flow bench.

A note for future reference, Holley carbs are very sensitive to backfiring. If this ever occurs, then the power valve will be damaged, and need replacement. This can be done "in-situ", or on the boat, without removing the carberator. Just remove the secondary float bowl, and if my memory serves right, it is in the lower center of the metering block. It requires a fairly large wrench to loosen. I must do this this weekend as an ignition ground wire locknut vibrated loose and caused an intermittant open circuit, causing erratic ignition and a backfire. Now my carburator floods and doesn't run well. I plan to try throwing another power valve in and run it on the hose to make sure I solved it. If not, i'll do a complete overhaul. If I find that my memory of how this stuff works is off (I am over 40), I will update this post accordingly.

Good luck! I hope this helps.

[denwbaseball]

Wow!!!! Great Discription, I cann't tell you how much this is going to help me out! I cann't work on it again till Sunday but I think I'm good to go know. Thanks again!

Mikey I'm driving up to Ham Lake today after work to see my bro. Going to do some golfing tomarrow and going to rent a pantoon on White Bear Lake on Sat. Thats up by you right? Wish I was bring my boat!

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Dude what are you doing up this way??! Awesome!! It should be 80 today and I will be out on my boat all day starting at noon. If you are going by Ham Lake you are driving right past me. :) White Bear is a little more east (like half hour). I will be out all weekend too. Would love to have you stop by anytime 612-232-2040 or leave me a message. maps.google.com search "peninsula point park,anoka,mn 55303" pinpoint A on their map is right where we go out.

Rick that was an awesome post way to help a brother out. Holleys website has an easy 'power valve test' that can be done without removing any parts at all, just takes a screwdriver (I believe lol) and will tell you if it is good or bad.

[denwbaseball]

My brother lives in Ham Lake. I get up there a few times a year to snow ski and stuff. I don't think we'll be able to hang out this time cause a bunch of my family are coming too, but I'll be back up there this summer with my boat we should def. meet up!

[mapleleaf]

There are a bunch of extra parts in the kit that you will NOT use. Basically you replace everything you take off so keep all the old parts to match up when you reassemble.

I used an allen key (not sure what size) to remove and reinstall the odd size screws. A small flat head will work too.

Pretty sure those are clutch head screws....

[rludtke]

Thanks for the tip MickeyD, I found the Power Valve test procedure here: http://www.holleyparts.com/data/TechService/Technical/power_valves.pdf

[rludtke]

... And here is Holley's published float adjustment procedure:
http://www.holleyparts.com/data/TechService/Technical/Adjusting%20Your%20Carburetor.pdf

[rludtke]

... and here is an exploded view diagram:
http://www.holleyparts.com/data/TechService/Technical/4165-4175%20Exploded%20View.pdf

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I completed the rebuild and everything when back together really well. I went to put it on the boat and hooked up the fuel line and gave the throttle a little action and no gas was coming out...

Any ideas?

[michael hunter]

Did you crank the engine for about 30 sec? It takes some time for the fuel to fill the carb.

[denwbaseball]

No I was just working the throttle with the throttle cable disconnected.....

[denwbaseball]

Before I start the boat for the first time I I give the throttle a few pumps to put gas in the carb for the first start(or atleast thats what I think I'm doing). And thats basically what I was doing but no gas was squirting.

[michael hunter]

den
Just open the throttle once the choke plate should be closed then crank the engine untill
it starts. If it doesn't after 15-30 sec of cranking then pump the throttle 2-3 times.
You should see the fuel squirting inside the carb by then.

[denwbaseball]

Will I even be able to get it started with no gas in the carb?

[denwbaseball]

Ok so here is where I'm at....

I went out to start it and the gas was def. flowing but I'm not sure if it was properly. It was squirting out of the back of the car of of the hook looking thing at the top of thde carb. Is gas supposed to come out of that????? I couldn't keep it running cause I didn't have the secondary connect rod hooked up (item 124 on the diagram) I tried and tried to get it hooked up right but every way I tried wouldn't engage the secondarys so the back of the carb just filled up with gas super fast! HELP!!

[rludtke]

Ok so here is where I'm at....

I went out to start it and the gas was def. flowing but I'm not sure if it was properly. It was squirting out of the back of the car of of the hook looking thing at the top of thde carb. Is gas supposed to come out of that????? I couldn't keep it running cause I didn't have the secondary connect rod hooked up (item 124 on the diagram) I tried and tried to get it hooked up right but every way I tried wouldn't engage the secondarys so the back of the carb just filled up with gas super fast! HELP!!

Hi Den,

That hook like tube is the float bowl vents. On marine carburators, the vent is directed into the engine intake to control fuel spills. The down side is the potential for internal engine damage when liquified fuel makes it into the combustion chamber.

There is a vent for each float bowl, the primary, and the secondary. The Primary is the fwd bowl, and the Secondary is the aft. I think you need to get all of the linkages connected properly, but I don't think the linkage is contributing to the fuel venting problem. The reason fuel is pouring out the vent is that either the float level is to high, or the needle is stuck open by debris.

Remove the float bowl, remove the float assembly, remove the needle, inspect the tip for any scoring or indications of wear, remove the seat, and inspect for foriegn objects, if no issues, then reassemble the parts back into the float bowl.

Check the initial float level by turning the float bowl upside down. Remember the top of the float (now bottom as it is inverted) should be paralell with the top of the bowl. Adjust the tab on the float link until it is parralel. If it already is, then adjust the float so that it closes the valve sooner. Re-assemble, and restart the engine (with the engine cooling system connected to a hose, or the boat is in the water).

You may need to take the bowl off, and re-adjust the float level several times to get the adjustment right. It will be slightly different on the lake in gear and under a load. So you may wish to do the final adjustments out on the lake.

I had this probelm once, and could not adjust my way out of it. Eventually I found a tiny piece of gasket material in the area up stream of the needle/seat. When fuel was flowing, I think it found it's way into the needle and seat, blocking it open. When fuel stopped running, it floated up and out of the way. I eventually discovered it after not having any success in adjusting the float level, and began inspecting the parts very carefully. You may have a simular problem.

Cheers,

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I just went out there and took the back off and tried to take it all apart but I couldn't get the brass thing that the needle sits in out. It won't get tight where I cann't turn anymore and it won't get lose so I cann't take it off either, it just sit and spins in both directions. I'd imagine that this could be the problem?????

Also Mikey or someone with the same exact carb as me do you have picture of the throttle linkage at the carb....I'm really at a loss of how to hook that secondary rod up. When I took it apart it was already off!

[denwbaseball]

Again guys thanks for all the help I'd be lost without you!!!

[denwbaseball]

Ok I went out and worked on getting that piece out and I got it with a little fight and the threads on the brass piece were messed up so I inspected the old one and it looked fine so I threw that one back on and I got it nice and tight put it back on the boat and.....OOPS! FORGOT TO PUT THE TUBE GOING FROM THE FRONT OF THE CARB TO THE BACK AND SPRAYED GAS EVERYWHERE!HAHA. Ok put that on and started right up and no gas coming out of that hook!!! Now is all I need to do is figure out is how the secondary rod is attached.

[rludtke]

The brass thing is the needle seat. If the threads were bad, I think it could ppass unmetered fuel, which would certainly explain the fuel running out the vent. It sounds like you are making headway. Keep at it!

[rludtke]

The brass thing is the needle seat. If the threads were bad, I think it could ppass unmetered fuel, which would certainly explain the fuel running out the vent. It sounds like you are making headway. Keep at it!

[rludtke]

The brass thing is the needle seat. If the threads were bad, I think it could ppass unmetered fuel, which would certainly explain the fuel running out the vent. It sounds like you are making headway. Keep at it!

[michael hunter]

Here ya go
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/supracarb009.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/supracarb007.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/supracarb006.jpg

http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/supracarb010.jpg

[denwbaseball]

Mike Your The Man!!!! Thanks! When you work the throttle does that rod slide down and open the secondarys?

[michael hunter]

Den
The rod only allows the secondaries to open. They are actually controlled by the vacuum diaphragm on the other side of the carb. see the pic below. The link on the port side of the carb acts like a lockout to prevent opening the secondaries at idle. Note if you want to see it opening the secondaries you will have to do it under load in the water.

Sorry for the poor focus. The gold thing controls the secondaries
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn127/suprahunter/supracarb001.jpg

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I won't be able to get the secondarys to open on land only under load? It just looks like since the rod is connected to the same "plate" as the throttle that the secondarys should open when you are giving it throttle. But it sounds like it opens from the vaccum pump not by working the throttle. Giving it throttle it allows the rod to move backwards if under load and with it in nutrual the rod is already as far back as it will go preventing the secondarys to open unless your giving it some gas. So it as long as the secondary pump is working the secondarys should still open the rod just is just there so they don't open at idle? Does that sound correct?

I'm just trying to understand how it all works rather than just doing it and not no what is going on.

[michael hunter]

You pretty much have it the secondaries add fuel and air only after the primaries can no longer supply. If you drive the boat at about 5/8 to 3/4 throttle you will feel and hear when
the secondaries open I try to keep it just under to save gas. Where do you run your boat?

[denwbaseball]

I run on the Illinois River at Ottawa I launch at Allen Park. What about you?

[michael hunter]

Mostly lake michigan but I do travel sometimes.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Lately on my boat when I run wide open throttle it is not getting enough gas and sputters until I ease up. Doesn't happen when wakeboarding or surfing weighted down. I'm assuming the secondaries aren't getting enough gas.

Dennis looks like it's been going really great! I've been watching, crossed my fingers, but no good advice from me.

MikeH try the macro setting there bud (lil flower) :) :)

[denwbaseball]

Ok so I took it out today and I'm still having the same problem. I'm getting no fuel to the secondarys!!!! The Diaphram pump doest appear to kick on or anything.....what now?? is it time just to buy a new one?

[denwbaseball]

The season is half over and I still haven't had a good day out on the water this year! This year just isn't my year!

[denwbaseball]

http://carburetorsandmore.com/boat_carbs.htm

Found this....its item B4 it doesn't give a carb number it looks like mine. Anyone no it this one will work?

[denwbaseball]

I just talked to the guy and he said he has over a hundered marine 4160's and they are all live tested and are gaurnteed to work for 90 days and will fix it for free if it breaks within that time period.

[denwbaseball]

After sending him a few emails asking about shipping this is what he sent me....the the emails I sent him were 1 or 2 sentances appiece! and this is the reply I got! So needless to say he didn't get my buisness!



Dennis, AKA bluffer
You can do a lot of this checking about shipping your self by contacting the shippers by phone or on line.We are busy building carburetors for serious customers.
It is too late to do overnight now. If you had ordered an hour ago when you first started the useless emailing it could have been shipped today.
The shippers have to be notified by 10:00 a.m. for the special pickup of overnight items.
Maybe you can find one locally if you are in that big of a hurry. You cannot order an item tomorrow ad expect it to be there yesterday.
You have wasted 2 hours or yours and my time already.
Can I guess : Are you some kind of engineer or lawyer?
Have a speedy weekend.
Chuck



Instead I went to http://www.carb-x.com/index.php/vmchk/Specialty-Cars-Boats

Every good to deal with, he said they have been tested. $215 if i send my old one to him or $315 if I don't. Semms like a good deal.
So don't shop at carburetorsandmore.com!!!

[michael hunter]

Wow
Sounds like he did you a favor by showing his true colors before sending your carb to them.
Ill bet the custermer service only gets better after his rebuild has a problem.

[FecalFajita]

You've just gotta wonder how these people stay in business. Thanks for testing the waters there, So I don't have to deal with the A-hole either.

[agetech]

I recently bought a new marine carburetor direct from Holley out of their E-bay store. I got it for $319 best offer. After I put it on my 351w Comp, hesitation is gone, hard starting when hot is gone, idle is steady and smooth, engine just sounds and runs better. I rebuilt the old carb a few years ago, but the new carb has this old boat running like new.

[rludtke]

I recently bought a new marine carburetor direct from Holley out of their E-bay store. I got it for $319 best offer. After I put it on my 351w Comp, hesitation is gone, hard starting when hot is gone, idle is steady and smooth, engine just sounds and runs better. I rebuilt the old carb a few years ago, but the new carb has this old boat running like new.

Wow agetech, that is a good deal. Could you provide a link?

Thanks,

[agetech]

Try this, might have to cut and paste. I made offer of $319, maybe they will accept less?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Holley-0-80551-600CFM-REFURBISHED-MARINE-CARBURETOR_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZQ7c293Q3a1Q 7c294Q3a30QQ_trksidZp4634Q2ec0Q2em14Q2el1262QQhash Zitem4146f70932QQitemZ280363469106QQptZMotorsQ5fCa rQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories