Tower Speaker Volume

[blaze5012]

Im sure im like most of you that likes to listen to the music loud while im boarding but right now, to turn it up loud enough for the boarder to hear the music, it is really really loud inside the boat. I have an 06 24SSV with the gravity games roswell tower setup. Do any of you have this problem? Also, has anyone messed with the gain on the tower speakers amp to make them louder than the boat speakers so the wakeboarder can hear better?
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[jasonba1]

The best way to do this because I had this problem is to buy a wetsounds ws 420 eq. that way you can control the tower speakers and inboat speakers seperatly with one knob. so you can shut off your inboat while pulling a rider and you can also adjust tune the tower and inboat speakers seperalty

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Well ya any equalizer can do that. Clarion EQS746 is only $60 very common on boats on WW and great reviews. Only thing it doesn't have is the mic, but you could add that using RCAs to the EQ. It doesn't have fade within each zone either, but using fade knob to control volume between tower and boat speakers is the most common way to do it.

I would recommend buying over ebay as opposed to using these online sites.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductReview.aspx?ProductID=16889

[wotan2525]

http://www.shipsound.com/product_info.php?products_id=102806

Add a couple of those under your dash and tune everything right and you've got ultimate control. I've got one knob for the sub, one for the tower speakers, and one for interior speakers. Never any question of what should be/is loud.

[KY Steve]

Im sure im like most of you that likes to listen to the music loud while im boarding but right now, to turn it up loud enough for the boarder to hear the music, it is really really loud inside the boat. I have an 06 24SSV with the gravity games roswell tower setup. Do any of you have this problem? Also, has anyone messed with the gain on the tower speakers amp to make them louder than the boat speakers so the wakeboarder can hear better?

I have the same issue, I adjust the Fade on the Kenwood head unit all to Front and it turns off the 4 speakers behind the driver but keeps the bow and towers on. Its still not ideal but its better.

Does any one know if a second amp just on the stock Kenwood tower speakers would help if you could turn off the other amp to the speakers in the boat?

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Yes you can adjust the gain to adjust the master volume for each part of the system ie tower, boat, etc. as long as each part of the system is on its own channel. And you SHOULD adjust the gain on each channel to make each channel sound good both by itself and when compared to the other parts of the system.

But an EQ is very cheap...

[jonyb]

The Clarion eq and the Wet Sounds eq are 2 totally different pieces. The 420 is also a 5V line-driver, you have separate eq controls for the tower speakers and boat speakers, you have a sub frequency and boost control, boatlink, auxiliary input, completely separate controls for tower and in-boat/sub. The 420 is well worth the money.

As for the OEM Kenwood system, they probably didn't even tune it before it left the plant. Mine was the worst sounding stereo I'd ever heard until I tweaked it a little bit, and it still wasn't much. Those $10 speakers they put in there are very harsh. The amps don't have nearly enough power for the subs either. They put in a 250W or so 10" woofer, powered by about 75W total.

If you don't want to pick up something now, you can adjust the gains on the amps to make it sound a little better.

[saltare inverts]

I have a very strong amp running my tower speakers. It is turned on/off via switch on dash. I leave off tower speakers for cruising etc. Then when its time to play, BAM you can dance and wakeboard.

[SZEH]

I have a JL Audio 6 channel amp with 2 channels bridged for each tower speaker and then the last two channels bridged for the 10" sub. I turn the amp on using the accessory switch. This way if I want it quiet for night cruising I can just use the existing Kenwood hu and speakers (6 speakers in the 21V) and keep the sound low and not hear any hissing from the amp. Then if I want the noise I can hit the switch for the amp and it adds the tower speakers and the sub.

This setup has worked well for wakeboarding because the people in the boat don't get hammered by a system that's trying to let the rider hear the tunes 70 ft away and it kinda blends all together very well for the people in the boat.

Also, I can sit in a cove without the engine running for hours and the system cranked up and not kill the batteries. I know several guys that have killer systems, but turn off the engine and they have about 15 min of listening time before they drain the batteries because they're running 2 or 3 amps.

Scott

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I won't disagree that the WS420 is better than the Clarion but for the average boater is is probably more than needed. I can also control my sub by itself. I have been perfectly happy with just one set of eq's, I control the tower and boat seperatly at the amp by adjustments to HPF and the gain has it's own simple EQ right on the amp. The Clarion info page says it has 7V max output boost. I'm not entirely sure if that is the same or not, but I know it is more powerful than my previous short-lived EQ. Has Aux inputs too. Boatlink is cool but not something I really look for.

Sorry to sound like I'm argueing with you here... But for some end-users it's a big difference between $60 and $250 if the functionality is basically the same.


Very sorry to hear you feel your entire system was basically junk on a brand new boat. That is very dissappointing. Not to be mean but did you not notice it, or what was the deal there?

[wotan2525]

I have a lot of people with "stock" stereos come ask me how my tower speakers sound so good. They are el-cheapo infiniti 6x9s in a fiberglass box I bought off wakeworld for $100. The answer? I have a LOT of power going into them. I run a PPI pc2150 300Wx2@2ohms. They sound fantastic from 70' or 150'

I have aux-inputs and outputs and a box full of adapters to create my own "boat-link."

[jonyb]

Very sorry to hear you feel your entire system was basically junk on a brand new boat. That is very dissappointing. Not to be mean but did you not notice it, or what was the deal there?
When I bought the boat, it was still in shrinkwrap. The stereo wasn't gonna break the deal because my side business is car/marine audio. I knew if it sucked then it would be replaced. Those aren't the only gripes about it either. They mounted the amps directly under a cupholder in front of the windshield that's open on teh bottom. The boat cover does not cover this cupholder, so when it rained, the water went straight down on the amps. The amps were VERY underpowered for the sub, then they used those $10 Kenwood coaxials in the boat and in the tower. Those speakers aren't even good enough for factory replacement, and you couldn't even hear them outside the boat when it was under power. I replaced those with XS-650's after a couple months, and added another amp for the sub. That was better, but it still wasn't right.

The Clarion eq you have says 7V Max. they're head units also say 60X4 max power, but the true output is only about 15W x 4. The eq doesn't put out near that amount of voltage. If you've never used a 420, you'll never know the true beauty of it. I explain them to my customers but until they see one in their boat and actually start using it, all they think they have is an eq. Trust me, it's much more than that.

[blaze5012]

What speaker/amp setup do you have?
Im wondering if these will work with the stock setup I have.


http://www.shipsound.com/product_info.php?products_id=102806

Add a couple of those under your dash and tune everything right and you've got ultimate control. I've got one knob for the sub, one for the tower speakers, and one for interior speakers. Never any question of what should be/is loud.
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[blaze5012]

Well ya any equalizer can do that. Clarion EQS746 is only $60 very common on boats on WW and great reviews. Only thing it doesn't have is the mic, but you could add that using RCAs to the EQ. It doesn't have fade within each zone either, but using fade knob to control volume between tower and boat speakers is the most common way to do it.

I would recommend buying over ebay as opposed to using these online sites.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductReview.aspx?ProductID=16889

How would I set this up with three zones: tower, cabin, and sub?
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

The first knob on the eq controls sub volume. Your amp will likely also come with a wired sub volume remote knob. 3rd knob on the eq is fade. All the way left is only tower speakers. 12-o'clock position is equal tower/boat and this is what I tune my amps to sound the best. All the way to the right is boat speakers only.

[blaze5012]

The first knob on the eq controls sub volume. Your amp will likely also come with a wired sub volume remote knob. 3rd knob on the eq is fade. All the way left is only tower speakers. 12-o'clock position is equal tower/boat and this is what I tune my amps to sound the best. All the way to the right is boat speakers only.

Doesnt sound too hard at all, thanks!

Also, Im not very familiar with the equalizer functions much less changing each of those seven frequency boosts. How would I know what to set those at, or can I jsut leave them all at no dB boost?
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[SZEH]

I know just enough about audio to be dangerous, so just to clarify something. I hear that the standard preout on the Kenwood HU is 2 volts and that the Clarion EQ sends out 7 volts from it's preouts (give, or take).

Is this increase is output voltage alone going to have a dramatic effect on the volume coming out of my tower speakers? If I'm putting about 150 watts rms to each of my tower speakers and I add this eq to my system is there going to a noticable difference?

I guess I'm not looking for more control such as fade, but a little more volume without spending a crap load on bigger amps. Don't get me wrong I'm happy with it now...but are we ever truly finished with our sound systems? There's always something else to want, need and gotta have!

Scott

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Yes it does add some volume. I had to turn my amp down after switching from the old EQ. I have since turned it back up some, but it is a lot of power!

You can mess with the 7-band EQ a bit if you think the top-end treble is too high, etc, but I was told for my tower speakers to leave them all at 12-o'clock, and turn the HPF-on for the tower speakers on your amp. Then make minor adjustments on the 7-band if needed to suit personal pref. Again I am not really an expert on this either, I just learned as I installed my stereo.

It should boost the HU a fair amount but hopefully someone more experienced can contribute...

[jonyb]

Your amp will likely also come with a wired sub volume remote knob.

Most of the time that's not a volume control. It's a bass boost, where it boosts a certain frequency, basically changing the curve and adding distortion.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Thanks jonyb I'll bet you are right. It's not exactly a volume control. But it does certianly boost the bass! I do not get any distortion though.. unless it is super cranked up loud.

Just for fun, here is my amp. It is very budget at only $140, but it is five-channels so it powers my entire boat - cabin, tower and sub. It is Crunch brand and after some research I found they are made by a good manufacturer and it had a good warranty. Also positive user reviews. It has more than enough power for my setup.

http://www.millionbuy.com/crup50005.html

[blaze5012]

anyone have any pics of where they mounted their equalizer?
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

funny you should ask. K.I.S.S. method

http://photos.wakeboarder.com/data/3486/Picture_008.jpg

[blaze5012]

looks like i have found my next addition, thanks for the pic!
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[jonyb]

Thanks jonyb I'll bet you are right. It's not exactly a volume control. But it does certianly boost the bass! I do not get any distortion though.. unless it is super cranked up loud.

Just for fun, here is my amp. It is very budget at only $140, but it is five-channels so it powers my entire boat - cabin, tower and sub. It is Crunch brand and after some research I found they are made by a good manufacturer and it had a good warranty. Also positive user reviews. It has more than enough power for my setup.

http://www.millionbuy.com/crup50005.html


You get what you pay for....

.10 THD, and 1 70A fuse. I bet it's a real powerhouse......

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Thanks it works great, it has enough power to blow all my speakers if I crank the gains. It is rated at 125 Watts x 4-Channel + 300 Watts x 1-Channel and it is more than enough power for me. Please remember that I am not rich - I can't afford a new boat or a $2k sound system. I installed my whole system for about $500.

http://www.audioholics.com/education/frequently-asked-questions/receiver-amp-specifications-thd-and-rms-power

http://www.rayfes.com/caraudio/ampspec.php

[jonyb]

Nice home theater link...

Stereo operators blow speakers, not amps.

[blaze5012]

Hey Mikey, I just ordered mine, and from the picture it looks like it has a power, ground, and turn on lead connection. Where did you run the turn-on lead to?
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

All the remote power leads (for amp, eq, and ipod cable) come from the amp and battery. Each lead has it's own tiny inline fuse. Then the remote turn-ons are run though the accessories switch on dash. It used to turn the old radio on/off. What other components are you running? :)

(edited for accuracy)

[blaze5012]

I have everything stock in my 06 24 SSV except for an ipod cable put in by the dealer but its just a simple headphone jack. Im guessing I will probably have to run it into the stereo switch, but Im pretty new to this.
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

Many people say headphone jack is bad news when you are using amplifiers because if you blast the volume knob you could blow something out. The data cable uses a line-out volume that is always constant and much better quality. This cable is cheap and also charges the ipod.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16882781007

I think I misspoke earlier. The power comes from the battery through the 2g wire to the amp. From there I also tie-in all the power wires for the accessories w/ inline fuses. Then the remote turn-on wire is routed through the dash switch. Sorry about that.

[blaze5012]

Can you think of an easy way to tie in the turn on under the dash without running a wire to the amp? Also, how necessary do you think a fuse is for the equalizer or does it come with one, i ordered the same equalizer you have.
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[blaze5012]

Also, what about something like this, i know this is more expensive but I have a cheaper version in my car. In my boat there is an outlet in the glove compartment and seems like this would work perfect in there without running any more cables. Thoughts?

http://www.monstercable.com/productdisplay.asp?pin=5340

Thanks for all the help by the way!
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

The amp will not work without a remote turn on. Basically you need to connect the amp and eq to power, but you can't have them powed on 24/7 so how you are going to turn them off? They do not have power buttons. If you are mounting the eq under the dash, just put the amp real close. I chose the drivers side gunwale. It is a short distance to run the wires.

Concerning the ciggy lgihter plug, the Ipod must be connected to the EQ with RCA cables, and the EQ is connected to the amp with RCA cables. So you are already running these wires. This is just one more wire to tie into the bunch.

I try to keep the 2g amp/battery power cables seperate from all other wires (not in contact w/ other wires). Also I tried to find a car amp wiring kit online with the longest possible power 2g power wire but it was not long enough.

I used to use a ciggy lighter power cord to run the ipod, but the ipod still must be connected to your EQ. So you have a ciggy lighter cord and RCAs to the EQ - twice the cords.

[blaze5012]

Ok, I think ive done a bad job of explaning what I want to to do. What you just said is correct and makes sense, but my situation is a little more simple.

Right now I have the ipod cable hooked into the back of the factory Kenwood stereo head unit to the right of the steering wheel. I want to run that cable over to the glove compartment thought because I want it easier access to it for passengers. So as of now at least, I wont have to connect the ipod cable to the equalizer, unless you think thats a better idea than having it hooked to the head unit which is what the dealer did?

My amps are installed under the glover compartment but I want to put the equalizer under the dash so I can use it while driving. I know the turn on lead for the amps has to come from either the kenwood head or the stereo accessory witch. I want to figure out if I can tap into it there somehow without having to run any wires to teh amp.

For the RCA cables, I can just unplug the cables from the head unit and plug them into the output of the equalizer. I bought new shorter cables to go from the head unit to the input of the equalizer, so I shouldnt have to run anything new to the amps, as there are alerady 3 RCA sets going to the amps.
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

Yeah sorry I forgot about your head unit. Sounds like you've got it right. Will the ciggy plug be able to control the ipod if you are already running it through the head unit? Not sure about that one.

If you can tap into your remote turn-on from the head unit that will work just fine.

Your RCA cables sounds good too. Take some pics! :)

[blaze5012]

Well with the ipod connector i have it doesnt use the controls it just acts as an auxilary sound input so I dont have to worry about the controls.

Now all I have to do is figure out what exactly to tap into, time to go find out1
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[87SunSportMikeyD]

Oh and the EQ does come with a small inline fuse and mounting hardware and brackets.

[blaze5012]

Yeah I just opened the box, but now I have to go get some more wire for the ground and turn on. Plus the wire it came with is about 6 inches long.
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[blaze5012]

It was a pain in the butt to put in but i finally got the equalizer installed right under the stereo head.
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[Sluggo]

pics please!!!

[87SunSportMikeyD]

always use the tiny screws when screwing the brackets into the equalizer hehehehehehe doh

[blaze5012]

haha, I picked up the big screw and started then thankfully realized there were smaller screws in the bag.

and I will post some pics hopefully today, I ended up mounting it to a small board so that it would hang down low enough below the dash that I could use it while driving.
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[SZEH]

I have the standard Supra Kenwood 400mr receiver and know it comes with 2 sets of pre outs and the Clarion 746 has only one set of main inputs.

I'm running a JL Audio 6 channel amp for my tower speakers and sub. I bridge two channels for my left tower speaker, another two for my right tower speaker and the last two for the sub.

So, I'm currently running one set of preouts out of the head unit to the right channel on my JL Audio amp and then the second set of preouts out of the head unit for the left. Of course the sub outs go to the sub inputs on the amp.

If I install this Clarion 746 do I use only one set of preouts from the head unit for the "Main In" on the Clarion and then run the "front out" and "rear out" on the equalizer into my left and right channels in my amp for my tower speakers like I have now?

I take it that the equalizer would still be sending about 7volts out of the "front out" and "rear out" of the equalizer to my amp.

I hope this all makes sense. Is this how I would wire up this Clarion equalizer? Also is the 7 volt output full time and non adjustable...not that I'd want to adjust it.I just want the most volts coming out of the equalizer all the time.

Thanks,

Scott

[tg0824SSVGG]

I may have already posted that the WS420 is a must in my boat for just this reason - but something else that i changed that made a 2000000% improvement in ability to
play tower speakers LOUD - without overloading the amp - was that I hooked
the tower speakers up in SERIES instead of parallel - now I am chased out of hte boat
WAY before the amp overloads.

[SZEH]

I may have already posted that the WS420 is a must in my boat for just this reason - but something else that i changed that made a 2000000% improvement in ability to
play tower speakers LOUD - without overloading the amp - was that I hooked
the tower speakers up in SERIES instead of parallel - now I am chased out of hte boat
WAY before the amp overloads.

My tower speakers are two (one left and one right) Polk DB691's...basically a 3 way 6x9 in fiberglass housings, but they are individual mountings. If I understand wiring in "series" I would run one + to a + post on one speaker and a - to a - on the other speaker and then run a wire from the open + to the open - on the other. Two questions...doesn't this change the ohms from say 4 up to 8 ohms? If so, is it O.K. to have an 8 ohm signal going to a 4ohm speaker? Also, I'm running in bridged mode already with 4 channels...2 channels bridged for each speaker. I thought I would be getting the most out of the amp the way it is now? Here's the amp specs.

Amplifier Section:
Amplifier Topology: Class A/B with patented Absolute
Symmetry™ dual N-Channel MOSFET output design
Power Supply: Unregulated MOSFET switching type
Rated Power at 12.5 V (Stereo, all channels driven):
45W RMS x 6 @ 4 ohms, 75W RMS x 6 @ 2 ohms
Rated Power at 12.5 V (Bridged, all channels driven):
90W RMS x 3 @ 8 ohms, 150W RMS x 3 @ 4 ohms
THD at Rated Power:
<0.08% @ 4 ohms per ch. (20 Hz - 20 kHz)
Signal to Noise Ratio: >104 dB referred to rated power
(A-weighted, 20 Hz-20 kHz noise bandwidth)
Frequency Response: 10 Hz - 25 kHz (+0, -1dB)
Damping Factor: >200 @ 4 ohms per ch./50 Hz,
>100 @ 2 ohm per ch. /50 Hz
Slew Rate: ± 22V/μs
Power output at 14.4V supply voltage and 1% THD:
70W RMS x 6 @ 4 ohms (14.4V, 1% THD)
110W RMS x 6 @ 2 ohms (14.4V, 1% THD)
Rated Power (Bridged):
140W RMS x 3 @ 8 ohms (14.4V, 1% THD)
220W RMS x 3 @ 4 ohms (14.4V, 1% THD)

WOW...now you REALLY got me thinking!!

[wotan2525]

It only works to run your speakers in different configurations if you have 4 speakers.... because you still want them in stereo.

I have 2 lefts and 2 rights both running to the amp in bridged mode -- 200 watts x 2 out of my PPI amp.

[SZEH]

It only works to run your speakers in different configurations if you have 4 speakers.... because you still want them in stereo.

I have 2 lefts and 2 rights both running to the amp in bridged mode -- 200 watts x 2 out of my PPI amp.

Yup...I checked and if I was to wire my tower speakers in series I would loose the ability to play the tower speakers in stereo. But, when I'm floating 20'-30' behind the boat am I going to tell if it's in stereo? My interior speakers will still be in stereo regardless. I'm going to order that Clarion EQS746. For about $60 it's something to play with and going from 2v to about 7v to the amp can't hurt. Then when I have time I'll give the wiring in series a try just for kicks.

[tg0824SSVGG]

I am an Electronics Engineer by training - but not in practice, I really am a software
developer now.

Here is a pretty easy to understand discussion of why wiring 2-on-each-side speakers
in series instead of parallel draws less current (which allows more VOLUME) than having them
in parallel.

http://www.bcae1.com/srsparll.htm

[jonyb]

So, I'm currently running one set of preouts out of the head unit to the right channel on my JL Audio amp and then the second set of preouts out of the head unit for the left. Of course the sub outs go to the sub inputs on the amp.

If I install this Clarion 746 do I use only one set of preouts from the head unit for the "Main In" on the Clarion and then run the "front out" and "rear out" on the equalizer into my left and right channels in my amp for my tower speakers like I have now?

I take it that the equalizer would still be sending about 7volts out of the "front out" and "rear out" of the equalizer to my amp.


Thanks,

Scott
The Clarion is MAXIMUM 7V output. No, it's not 7V all the time. That's what it's rated at, but I doubt it actually puts out that much.

From the EQ, you'll have the left to channel 1, the right to channel 3, and the sub to the sub input. If that amp has a switch for different inputs, like mono input, you'll need to adjust that.

[WadsworthSunsport22V]

You get what you pay for....

.10 THD, and 1 70A fuse. I bet it's a real powerhouse......

:) exactly .... I learned this years ago. I was in a high end stereo store that sold car stereo amps. I wanted the 500 x 4 yamaha amp for $250.00 and could not understand why the 75 x 4 ADS amp was over $600.00. All the sales person did was show me the fuses, wire, then did an A / B comparison, and I could hear a dramatic difference. The ADS had far better bass and midrange. The highs sounded about the same.

[blaze5012]

I am an Electronics Engineer by training - but not in practice, I really am a software
developer now.

Here is a pretty easy to understand discussion of why wiring 2-on-each-side speakers
in series instead of parallel draws less current (which allows more VOLUME) than having them
in parallel.

http://www.bcae1.com/srsparll.htm

I understand that it draws less current but are all amplifiers and speakers rated for that resistance?
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[SZEH]

Installed the Clarion 746 and finally got the chance to check it out this weekend. WOW!!! For the $60 I paid for it, it made a huge difference. I have it running my tower speakers and sub only. Interior speakers are still powered by the hu. The sound is crisper and louder than it has ever been before. The additional control over the subwoofer is incredible.

Sure the WS420 may be a better unit and I'm sure it probably is, but I'm not sure if it's 4x the cost better. If I had the funds I'd go with Wet Sounds throughout the boat, but I don't so I do what I can with what I got...and I'm pretty damn happy!

Scott