Engine wont start when hot

[chautauquasun]

Like I said in the previous post...ran into the same issue of the engine not starting when it is warm. Had to have my dad tow me home due to the battery dying.

I just had my carb rebuilt new points and condenser installed, plugs properly gapped and timing set and new fuel filter installed. It seems to had somewhat solved the stalling issue I was having however it is still stalling at low speeds.

Had the boat out all day today. Went tubing for a while shut the motor down for a while and went for a swim. Got back in and it started but it did give me some trouble. Went tubing again stopped then started cruising at a slow speed. I then throttled it back to almost idle and it stalled out. That is when the trouble began. I could not get the engine to start...if fired a few times but wouldnt keep running then the battery started to die and didnt have enough power to crank it over.

Battery cables were warm but not real hot. Tried the cold water trick on the fuel pump but no luck. I am charging the battery over night and will give it shot again in the AM.

Very frustrating when you are having a great day and it run into this problem...then the insult to injury being towed by your dad. ugh

I am going to change the battery cables even though they dont seem to be in that bad of shape. I am also going to by the high output starter the Knoble mentioned. Probably not until the end of the season though...guess I am going to have to struggle through this season and keep the cell phone handy.

Any ideas on what could be happening? How to correct it? Was running a fresh tank of 93 octane. Boat is a 84 Supra Rider with 351w holley 4 barrel.

[rludtke]

I actually had issues that sounded just like yours when I first bought my boat (I even had to get towed by my Dad too). My troubleshooting led me to replace the battery because it didn't pass a load test, I discovered badly corroded positive and negative battery cables, I threw an overhaul kit in my carburetor (which bought me additional time, but didn't end my troubles for good, as my carburetor is starting to act up again), and I added an insulator plate between the carburetor and manifold (to isolate the carburetor from the engines heat to prevent vapor lock). I also added a wedge under my carburetor, as I was having trouble getting the float levels right ( the dang thing would not stop flooding). I was thinking that the engine/carb angle was contributing. I don't know if this contributed to the solution or not, as I made many changes at once, but it may have helped.

These tow boats have a pretty rough ride, which I think takes it's toll on some of the more sensitive components such as the carburetor and the battery.

The hard starting may be attributed to carburetor tuning, and/or vapor lock (discussed in other thread). Possibly it is flooding due to the state of tune? You could rules this out by examining the carburetor throat when the condition exists for excess fuel. Mine would drip and sometimes poor fuel out the J vents. Sometimes the front, and sometimes the rear. This may have been due to a needle valve stuck open, but changing the needle and seat wouldn't always fix it. Sometimes adjusting the float level downward was needed to get it to stop. Cranking the engine with the throttle set to full open will allow additional air to help lean the mixture, clearing the excess fuel, and perhaps get the engine started if it isn't flooded to bad, and the trouble is only transient in nature (be ready to pull the throttle back quickly to idle when she lights). I occasionally need to replace parts in my float bowls, and adjust my floats to keep my carburetor operating right- it likes to run rich and flood. It might be time to replace your carburetor. I know I am in the same boat (excuse the pun).

The battery may have a shorted or partially shorted cell. The hard pounding ride may be churning the lead sulfites up off of the bottom of the battery cell, allowing them to get caught between the + and - electrical plates, causing a short. This renders the shorted cell ineffective, causing the battery to "run down" quicker than you would normally expect, or fail to crank the engine after listening to the stereo for a while.

Take your battery to a shop or an auto parts store to be load tested. They could tell you right away if all cells are at full strength or not. In my experience, there are two types of testers, the hand held digital things, and the big old metal box devices with great big resistors inside. Ideally you would find a shop with the latter, as it can really stress test your battery. In my experience, the modern digital hand held testers can not identify a marginally bad battery, only the really bad ones.

Needless to say, if your battery has issues, it will be even more susceptible to the high resistance of poor electrical connections, so make sure all connections in the starting circuit are good. The battery cables, in my experience, can look perfectly fine on the outside, yet the copper wire may be corroded out within the insulation.

I personally don't think your starter is the culprit here, based upon your description. Maybe you should look at some of these cheaper components first?

Good luck,

[tjonas1]

Buddy had the same problem with his boat. We changed batteries, wires,plugs ect, still no luck. BUT the last thing we did was have the starter tested and that was the problem. Have your starter tested to see if that is it. We killed some many batteries in the last two months. But that fixed his problem.

[agetech]

I have the Pertronix Flamethrower II ignition and coil in my boat. A new Holley carb, 1" plastic spacer, Edelbrock intake. I used to to have the hard starting problems but since I installed the new carb back in June all those problems are gone. I haven't had a starting issue for over 2 months. I use the boat a lot, teach kids to ski, pull tubers, and slalom. Don't spend the money messing with a 20 year old carb. Buy a new one and be done with it. $300 on e-bay. I was a mechanic for 30 years in the Air Force and I rebuilt my old carb but I still had the starting and idle issues. I fought it since i bought the boat 6 years ago. All those times fighting an engine that wouldn't start in the middle of the river are over.
The high octane gas you are using probably contains more ethanol wich will evaporate more quickly than regular gas.

FYI the plastic spacer was worth 500 RPM and 2 mph on top end.

[Salty87]

...it is still stalling at low speeds...

doesn't sound like cables if it stalls while running. although, one thing i noticed when i replaced mine...a pair of really short cables work if you move the battery right next to the starter, cheap way to test when it's happening on the water.

back to the stalling at low speeds. that's probably ignition related...coil, dist, carb?

[rickr]

Symptoms sound like a flooding fuel bowl issue to me.
Take the spark arrestor off, then, WITHOUT LOOKING STRAGHT DOWN the barrels (she might backfire) see if raw fuel is leaking into the engine when cranking.

[chautauquasun]

Thanks Guys...all very good advice. I am going to start with the cables. I probably should have just bought a new carb rather than having it rebuilt. Battery is new but it is a rough lake so it could be stirring things up in the battery. We had a great day on the lake....just ended not so great. The good times on the lake keep me encouraged to keep working through the issues. Like I said to my son...we are probably about a year away from sorting through all of the problems.

But as i stood on the swim platform while swimming looking at the boat...I still love the boat. But is sure is frustrating me right now. We will keep at it.

thanks

[chautauquasun]

I installed the new starter from db electrical that Knoble turned me on to. ALL HARD AND HOT STARTING ISSUES HAVE BEEN SOLVED!!!!!!!!!. Thanks to Knoble for tell me about this starter. The boat now starts immediately everytime you turn the key even after skiing and tubuing all day. This starter really does turn the motor a lot faster and did not get hot at all. I highly recommend that if you are having this problem that you look into getting this starter for your boat. And for the price you can't go wrong....$55.00 with a year guarantee and customer service at db has been great.

Finally I feel like I am turning the corner on getting it running right. Had a great day yesterday and my dad didn't have to tow me back.

Here is the link to the starter if you want to check it out

http://www.db-starter-alternator.com/Items/Item.aspx?SKU=sfd0001%20/%203205m-reman&caSKU=sfd0001%20/%203205m-reman&caTitle=Mercruiser%20Marine%20OMC%20CW%20Starter%2 0Ford%20Engine%203205-Marine%20RemanSFD0001

[CDAHDAH]

That's great to hear! Like my previous post, I'm still having issues starting when HOT. It sounds like we have very similiar issues, and I'll DEFINITELY purchase the same starter for mine. Keep us posted if you encounter the same issues again.

[chautauquasun]

Starter is working flawlessly. I had the boat out this weekend skiiing and tubing. Engine still wants to stall at times but with the new starter it starts right back up no matter how hot the engine is. Really has been great and has given me the confidence in running the boat hard and shutting down the engine on the water. It was like a completely different boat. Out of all of the money I have spent on the boat to get it running right...the money on the starter is hands down the best. If you are having hot start problems...buy this starter it is great. I was at Autozone and took the starter in and one of the guys said it was a piece of crap....but I would have to say he couldnt be more wrong. I figure he was saying that because I didnt buy one from them for triple or quadruple the cost. It has a one year warranty on it...so even if it were to go bad it is warranted and even if the warranty expires it still only cost me $58...so I could replace it for the next 3 years and still not equal the price of some of the new ones I have seen.

No problems with it to date and love hearing the engine start everytime I turn the key. There is nothing that sounds better when you are on the water with a boat load of people.

[csuggs]

Dan - Glad to hear things are looking up for ya!:D