more ballast talk...

[mapleleaf]

Seeing as how I have a Conbrio, everytime I've put a bag in the boat it's out on the floor. Tonight reading all these other posts I had this thought that if I moved my back bench forward a bit, I might be able to make room for a 450 sac or so. This would complicate the removeable floor section a bit, but since I'm in the middle of redoing my interior now would be the time rebuild the bench base and fasten it in a little differently. I had already thought I would hinge the base of the back bench to be able to throw a couple life vests under it...
Any thoughts??

[jasonwm]

How do you use the boat? Wakeboard, surfing, both? Are you willing to put ballast anywhere else in the boat, or would this be the only location?

[mapleleaf]

Mostly wakeboarding, but if I can get the wave for it, I'll surf it too.. Have a couple 450 bags I just got used that I plan to put on either side of the motor and thought if I could get one more behind them somewhere I'd be in good shape. I can't really weight the bow or if I do I can use a person, this thing sits low and loves plowing through waves, driver error or not!!!
Kinda thought if I could plumb in the one behind the seat it'd save a little time while I'm filling the ones on the floor......

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Do you have a pic of the rear of the boat from inside? The ski locker is bigger, why not use that?

I took the dividers out of the rear bench seat, added newer, smaller supports and it holds ~250-300lbs. If I were to rebuild the base, there is 6" or so of empty space between the bench seat and the gas tank. I think it could be build larger. The blower hose also runs through there, someone else used a piece of PVC over the blower hose to keep it from getting crushed.

You might want a sac sized just right for the compartment because when it gets full it can easily break anything that is restricting it, like wood or even fiberglass. I went with a FlyHigh Tube sac 62" x 16" x 10" 370lbs or if you think you can make it bigger, the Rear seat sac is 62" x 26" x 12" 580lbs. I use the tube sac and it fills up about %80 so if I dont watch it, it will pop my seats up.

If you have something in the rear and along the motor both sides you would be great for boarding. If you keep the rear sac and put both 440s on top each other on the port side you should be able to surf.

How about you come down and buy my SunSport and I'll get that Super Sport I've been lookin at. :) :)

[mapleleaf]

LOL, well that's a whole nother ball a wax ain't it.....We can keep that idea floating around...... My boats around 'til she's finished (turn key).
For now I'm going to go ahead with some sort of bag behind the rear seat and I think you're right it may have to be custom, I haven't looked or measured yet these are still idea's. My ski/rope locker is like 5-6" deep and the gas tanks right under it, that's why I thought of going in front of it, The other bonus would be a larger sunpad on the rear deck....maybe room for me and the wife !!!
I also thought this am that if I was plumbing that bag in, kinda like you have yours, semiauto, I could run lines for the bags on either side of the motor and then just hook'em up when I was using them, maybe do some kinda through whole on the engine cover with a cap on it for when I'm not using them, hey maybe evne a coupling so I connect the bags to the engine cover open a valve and away we go???

So I need to figure out the dimensions of the bag, seems like a tall thin one would be good and I could build a box for it so it didn't lean on anything else, I'm not famaliar with bag dimensions so we'll see what the wakemaker guys say.....Seems totally doable....1200lbs in the Brio could work great......

[jet]

Hey mapleleaf, Its best to keep your weight around the engine. The only other way is what Im trying to do, but you will have to modify the crap out of it, like I'm doing. 1200 Isnt enough for me. Im going to do 350's or so beside the eng, 600 in the rear and then 400-600 up front. Then its about like mikey's wake, which is doable. Jet

[jet]

oops, forgot to tell you I used the 540 lbs straight line recliner or lounge chairs beside my eng. that way it made 2-xtra seats even though floor was taken up. Jet

[jasonwm]

Based on how you're using the boat, I would recommend not putting a bag behind the rear seat. That's going to put A LOT of weight in the back of the boat, and you'll need an equal amount of weight up front in order to maintain the correct shape wake.

Weight on each side of the engine compartment is the best route to go for a direct drive because it's centered side-to-side and front-to-back. You can integrate them so they fill and drain from the dash, and with the construction of bags these days, people can sit, stand and walk on them without any issues.

[mapleleaf]

Ok, so when I get into it I think I'd love to integrate the bags to fill from the dash and we'll forget about the bag in the back, I suppose if I need more weight, we could visit a little sand bag or something under the bow to balance something added to the back....the nose just sits soooooo low.....
2 adults up there and she's under water......

[jasonwm]

I think that's the way to go; you'll have a great wake that is well shaped, the boat will get up to speed quickly, the bow won't be much (if at all) lower, and you can always pull the bags out if you're not using them.

Let me know if you have any questions on installing an integrated system.

[mapleleaf]

Yeah, pretty much every question....Filled the bags this summer with a pump on a hose over the gunnels.wasn't horrible, but time consuming.....
It'd be pretty cool, even though they're on the floor, to be able to hookthem into something around the engine cover that was permanent. So all that comes out are the bags from time to time....Oh and so they'd prolly fill and drain faster I assume?
thoughts??

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Well to make this efficient you want short hose runs. So try and keep everything close together - intake, pump, and sacs. I forget - aerators are ignition proof AND waterproof right? IE toss 'em in the bilge since it's a bilge pump...

Personally for two sacs I would use the raw water intake, two aerators in the bilge on a shared fill/drain line, with a T going to the two sacs.

[mapleleaf]

yes Mikey....I can figure out the wiring, ign. protected I'd assume, now what about the vents??? Do I run them off the drain side tee'd off above the drain line??
I can keep the hose run's super short if I use the raw intake and I think I can do a cool little through whole on the curb of the doghouse to get to the bags.....

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Some people use all three of the sacs ports, fill on top of sac, drain on bottom of sac, other top for vent/overflow.

Personally all my sacs use just the bottom port for fill/drain, and top for vent/overflow.

Vent/overflow runs from the top of sac, through a swing check-valve, and out the hull of boat with a thruhull (black pastic $2.50or chrome $15). This must be a straight, level run of hose. Generally you want to experiment before you drill. If you raise the vent line, then the sac must be much fuller before the pressure will force water out the vent. If it is too low, then the sac will never fill all the way, it will always drain down to the level of the vent thru hull. If your sac cannot fill 110% in the space that holds it, it is critical to get the overflow height right or it can break wood or fiberglass.

With a Simer, when you turn off the power, the pump does not allow any water to pass, acting as a valve. Fill sacs, turn off pump and ride. With an aerator water will flow freely through the pump when power is off. This is why we can put fill and drain pumps on the same line right next to each other, facing opposite directions. However this means when you fill the sacs and turn off power to the pump, all that water can drain right back out again. Therefore most systems need some method to stop this. There are trick and there are tricks.

Basic is to have a 'master valve'. Open to fill or drain and then close. This can be:
-a hand valve,
-a mechanical valve operated by a wire leading to a pull handle on the dash (flow rite brand),
-an electrically operated valve wired to a switch on the dash (RV waste valve, etc),
-or there is JonyB's trick of running the drain line as high as possible with an anti syphon valve (see his thread, this is also assuming a system with dedicated fill and drain lines, the anti syphon valve is one way only)
-oh someone here (not sure who right now) used spring check valves instead of the swing check valves used in my picture above. This meant that the valves only closed when pressure is applied. This would be would I would do. But your vent/overflow line would still need a swing check.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Here is a pic with vent/overflows, but I removed the seperate fill/drain lines. If you run aerators you would probably want the seperate fill/drains to the sac. Not totally seperate lines, just like my first pic showed.

[jasonwm]

There's some good info being posted in this thread. I just through I would supplement it with a link to our blog (http://media.wakemakers.com) which includes articles and pictures of basic setups.

Basically what it comes down to is using either impeller pumps (like the Jabsco or Simer brand) or using aerator pumps (like the Rule or Attwood brand). Both have their advantages and disadvantages, but as long as the system is correctly planned around the type of pump that will be used it will be perfectly functional.

For your application, I would recommend an impeller pump because it will give you more installation options. Impeller pumps are self-priming, so they can be mounted remotely. In addition to that, if you're planning on running your hoses out of the engine box, you'll definitely want to use an ignition protected pump (Jabsco is, Simer is NOT). They're more expensive, but it's worth it for the peace of mind.

If you have any other specific or general questions let me know.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

If you wanted to use a Simer you would just have to locate it under the spotters seat or in another area free of fumes. Sump pumps are very powerful and can pump a long distance without losing much flow rate.

For aerator pumps, since they aren't self priming, most people try and keep the pump either very close to the sac / water supply so that pressure keeps the pump filled with water all the time ("primed"), or keep the pump down below the sac so which also provides pressure. Wouldn't he be fine with the "in" pump right on the raw water intake and the "out" pump down in the bilge beneith the sacs?

Can I be a wakemakers apprentice? ;)