Supra Ballast

[TayTay]

Is Supra ever going to upgrade to integrated hard tank ballast system? That is one of my least favorite features of the boat. When the bags are empty its no issue but when I have all of my gear, vests, etc. in the boat and the storage compartments are full, the ballast is really inconvenient. I have filled it up and looked back and the storage compartment doors are wedged open from the bags filling up. I just think that it would be something they would design into their new boats by now. (forgive me if they already have, I have a 2005 :-/ )

[tg0824SSVGG]

Tay Tay,

You must not live by where there are Zebra or Quagga mussel infestation *yet*.

In most of the lakes around here, I have to REMOVE MY BAGS FROM THE BOAT just
to launch. I am not saying I can't use them, just that they cannot be in the boat, and for sure cannot have ANY water in them at all, or I am refused access to the lake.

They are taking an EVEN harder line with the hard tank boats - especially since a visual
inspection is near impossible.

I agree with you about how much nicer it might be to have them, but for now - I am
glad I don't.

Todd

[Fman]

Is Supra ever going to upgrade to integrated hard tank ballast system? That is one of my least favorite features of the boat. When the bags are empty its no issue but when I have all of my gear, vests, etc. in the boat and the storage compartments are full, the ballast is really inconvenient. I have filled it up and looked back and the storage compartment doors are wedged open from the bags filling up. I just think that it would be something they would design into their new boats by now. (forgive me if they already have, I have a 2005 :-/ )

This has been discussed a lot on this forum, if you have a Z5 cargo rack it makes the boat/bag system much more efficient. If you run with a Z5 all you put in the lockers are vests and ropes.

I will say this, many of the other wakeboard boats are now offering plug 'n play systems to add more weight to there hard tank system. The Mastercraft X15 for examply has 700 lbs of hard tank ballast, not even close to being enough to Surf behind and really to be considered a comp. wake needs another 1,000 lbs of weight. This even holds true for the X-star which is Mastercrafts flagship wakeboard boat (you can read about this on wakeworld) So now you have to add a fat sac to your already small compartment and they have zero room after this. Supra does has the easiest system to upgrade and add weight too. However, the new Tige has 2,400 lbs of hard tank ballast which is by the far the best system out there right now.

What size bags are you using? I am using the 750's in the rear and can fully fill them and have enough room for vests and ropes. Never had a problem with the ski lockers coming open. There was even more room when I was using the stock 400's.

I would be a huge fan of hard tanks if they could supply adequate amount of weight, but most of the boats are capping out at 1200 lbs with hard tanks. The downfall to the bags are no mechanical gauges in the hard tank, and sometimes they can be a little fussy draining completely. I did move my drain pumps directly off the bag and it has helped quite a bit to get the water 95% out. The new JABSCO pumps used in the '09s will drain even better because they have priming capabilities unlike the RULE aerator pumps.

[jonyb]

A lot of those other boats don't need all that extra ballast. Just because one boat needs 2000# to make people happy, that doesn't mean the next boat with a different hull does need it.

[Fman]

A lot of those other boats don't need all that extra ballast. Just because one boat needs 2000# to make people happy, that doesn't mean the next boat with a different hull does need it.

I was referring to the X-star and X-15 specifically, in this case, YES they do require more weight than the stock system.... my brother in law has an X-15 and has to add extra weight with fat sacs. If you are a novice wakeboarder then 700 lbs will be fine, but if you read up on any other flagship boats of MC, Tige, Nautique, etc... they are all offering a plug 'n play system for fat sacs because more weight is needed, especially for surfing.

[scmarketing]

When I worked at Skier's Choice I would occassionally argue in favor of the hard tank. Here are the downsides:

1. Smaller ... fit between the stringers ... can't make large enough to add equivalent weight as bags.

2. Less flexible. Bags can be increased in size. Or removed for additional storage space. Hard tanks can't be removed. And the storage space never adjusts.

3. Lose flotation/safety. Replacing the foam in the hull with hard tanks reduces flotation safety. Should your boat ever have a significant breach in the hull, the hard tanks will dramatically limit the boats ability to stay afloat.

4. Difficult to repair ... particulary in a Malibu or MasterCraft where hard tanks are literally sealed underneath deck. Less so in a Correct Craft where the tanks remain above the deck but are just covered with carpet.

The only true advantages of hard tanks:

1. Faster fill.

2. Aesthetics.

At the end of the day, I became convinced that the bags approach was a better solution than hard tanks.

Again, no longer a Skier's Choice employee ... but in my humble opinion, bags are better.

[jonyb]

I was referring to the X-star and X-15 specifically, in this case, YES they do require more weight than the stock system.... my brother in law has an X-15 and has to add extra weight with fat sacs. If you are a novice wakeboarder then 700 lbs will be fine, but if you read up on any other flagship boats of MC, Tige, Nautique, etc... they are all offering a plug 'n play system for fat sacs because more weight is needed, especially for surfing.

I won't disagree with you..... All I know is that my ballast didn't work right all year long, and honestly the wake was tall enough. With much weight at all in it, the wake wasn't rampy, it was like a wall and if you hit it too fast things got bad. I'm no pro though.

[Fman]

I won't disagree with you..... All I know is that my ballast didn't work right all year long, and honestly the wake was tall enough. With much weight at all in it, the wake wasn't rampy, it was like a wall and if you hit it too fast things got bad. I'm no pro though.

I am far from a pro myself, but usually when people are comparing hard tanks to bags its because of a weight issue. I know the X-star when used in competition is pushing over 2500+ lbs of weight. Plus, with surfing becoming so popular it is requiring a lot more weight to generate a nice surf wave than the stock hard tanks will provide.

Also, how many people you have in your boat can play a large part in how much ballast you need. If you have 10+ people obviously it will require less, but most pro circuit riders only have 2-3 people in the boat while competing.

If you do have time this winter, do the Tsunami retrofit to your ballast fill system and it will make your thoughts on the bags a little more positive. When I had my sprinkler valves I had a lot of problems myself, plus it was rediculously slow to fill the bags up.

[jonyb]

I normally don't have more than 2-3 people at any given time. My boat is 24' though, and it's very heavy with all the gear.

I'll be upgrading the ballast before winter is over. I can't take another year of BS from this boat. The vaporlocking issue was almost resolved until SC pulled the plug on the warranty for that. THANKS SC!!!! Then the dealer that I'd talked to a few times about this closed up shop. Anyway, the stock crap is coming out. Most of it's already out since it didn't work all year, but now the rest is history.

[Fman]

I normally don't have more than 2-3 people at any given time. My boat is 24' though, and it's very heavy with all the gear.

I'll be upgrading the ballast before winter is over. I can't take another year of BS from this boat. The vaporlocking issue was almost resolved until SC pulled the plug on the warranty for that. THANKS SC!!!! Then the dealer that I'd talked to a few times about this closed up shop. Anyway, the stock crap is coming out. Most of it's already out since it didn't work all year, but now the rest is history.

Your 24' weighted will throw a monster wake, but as you mentioned the stock ballast is more than enough for the average/intermediate wakeboarder. What did you do to resolve the vapor locking issue? Sorry to hear about the warranty issues, I have had good results from SC with items being repaired. I thought the engine warranty was four years? Isnt your boat still under the 4 year mark?

[jonyb]

What did you do to resolve the vapor locking issue? Sorry to hear about the warranty issues, I have had good results from SC with items being repaired. I thought the engine warranty was four years? Isnt your boat still under the 4 year mark?

IT'S NOT RESOLVED! Knoxville Watersports said that SC was sending out a low-pressure fuel pump to put before the exisiting fuel pump. That was said to resolve the issue. They wanted my hull id, so I got it and called back a few weeks later. They said that SC had stopped doing that and that I wouldn't get one. That's a dealer telling me that. So whats the next step, call SC? RIGHT! That won't be happening. I guess I'll just have to deal with it, as I have with everything else on this boat.

Or maybe since Mr. Tinker has been on here recently, he'll pipe up with an alternative. I'm gonna have to assume that he won't though, since he or other SC employee's never have on this board. They don't seem to want to deal with these issues, neither here or the phone.

[Fman]

IT'S NOT RESOLVED! Knoxville Watersports said that SC was sending out a low-pressure fuel pump to put before the exisiting fuel pump. That was said to resolve the issue. They wanted my hull id, so I got it and called back a few weeks later. They said that SC had stopped doing that and that I wouldn't get one. That's a dealer telling me that. So whats the next step, call SC? RIGHT! That won't be happening. I guess I'll just have to deal with it, as I have with everything else on this boat.

Or maybe since Mr. Tinker has been on here recently, he'll pipe up with an alternative. I'm gonna have to assume that he won't though, since he or other SC employee's never have on this board. They don't seem to want to deal with these issues, neither here or the phone.

You might want to contact Indmar, I dont think SC will have anything to do with the fuel pump because it is engine related. My O2 sensor went out right after I bought the boat and Indmar was the contact the dealer used, it had nothing to do with Skiers Choice. I know the dealer I bought my boat from lost the Supra line, but they will repair any engine warranty issues because they are an Indmar certified shop. I would bet any boat shop in your area that services Indmar will be able to correct your fuel pump issue.

I believe the 2010 models are putting the fuel pump in the tank, possibly Indmar might entertain the idea of setting you up with this setup?

[jonyb]

You might want to contact Indmar, I dont think SC will have anything to do with the fuel pump because it is engine related. My O2 sensor went out right after I bought the boat and Indmar was the contact the dealer used, it had nothing to do with Skiers Choice. I know the dealer I bought my boat from lost the Supra line, but they will repair any engine warranty issues because they are an Indmar certified shop. I would bet any boat shop in your area that services Indmar will be able to correct your fuel pump issue.

I believe the 2010 models are putting the fuel pump in the tank, possibly Indmar might entertain the idea of setting you up with this setup?

Seems like I did that in the beginning and got the run-around. I guess I'll have to try again. IIRC, Knoxville WS said that SC told them they weren't covering it anymore, not Indmar. Everytime I've called about anything other than the trailer at Boatmate I've gotten the run-around, except for the dealer, they just didn't even call back. I'm gonna make a list this week of all the issues. SC and the selling dealer will be at the Nashville Boat Show in 2 weeks. I may present that to them while I'm there. Or maybe they'll read this here and save me the time. Who knows, maybe not?

Sorry Tay Tay.... Back on topic:D

[nmorale]

I have an 07 24SSV Gravity Games Edition and from what I thought it comes with 1950 lbs. of ballast and if I did the upgrade that they offer it will only increase to 2300 lbs.

does anyone know what the stock ballast configuration is for my boat?

Left, right and center.

Thanks

[jonyb]

1100 up front, 400 in each side, I think.

[TayTay]

I apprciate all of the input. After reading it all bags do make better sense. We do not have any problems with the infectious animals here in SE WA to my knowledge. I guess I just need to buy a bigger boat if I need more space huh? lol. Thanks guys.