Ballast weight??

[jet]

Ok Supra guys..need your help. Im changing the weight around in my boat and need your opinion. I was running 100lbs up front 2-550's beside the engine and a 400 behind the eng..great wake, problem- no floor space!! So I built a fat sac holder in the rear and changed my weight to 400 in the nose and a 750 in the rear filled to about 600 or 700..problem- the wake just wasnt big enough, but plenty of room. So my question is what should I go with??

option: 1
700 rear
500-600 nose (dont say it cant be done)
and then little side sacs?? What size? total: 1600-1800?

option:2
go back to 550 lounge seats beside eng
400-600 in rear fat sac holder total: 1500-1600?

in my head option: 3
700 in rear, 400-500 in front automatic ballast and then plug-in option with side sacs?? all plumbed in with over flows?


any opinions or arguments would be appreciated. im knocking the nose divider out so i can do a playpen 500-700 sac up front if needed. i know 700 is most likely too much but just letting you know how big it is.


I can build the ballast system but need help with what pumps and vales and position of everything. I about to start and can take pictures and have yall follow along. What do you think? Jet got to go and watch the daytona race now (im more of a F1 guy, but cant pass up the 500). lol

[Okie Boarder]

I'd go with option 3. It seems like that way you can have ballast out of the way for boarding and add the plug ins for surfing. Is that kind of what you were thinking?

[mapleleaf]

Not trying to poke too much fun here, but I'd consider raising the windshield if you've 4-500 in the nose, that thing's gonna sit low.........
I'm also trying to consider my ballast options for this year as we plan on surfing.....floor space is also gonna be an issue, but with the playpen bow I'm to chicken to put weight up there, I can swamp her without any too easily.....
Will be interested to follow this thread Jet to see how your new set up works....
I'm thinking my set up will be bags on both sides of the engine and maybe one in the rope locker (holding it open I guess)....and perhaps a 100 sac sitting on the walkthrough or some body in the bow for wieght, so they can get out of there if its too low!!!!

[sybrmike]

1600 lbs in a comp? Did that come with an intake snorkle and U-boat captian's license?

I'd also lean towards option 3 (if you're confident about the 4-500 lbs up front), but only because it sounds similar to what I'm contemplating for my Saltare and gives you some flexibility. I want a nice wake for boarding, the kids want to surf (o.k., me too), but I want to make this a practical family boat with enough interior space to be comfortable seating 6-8 people. Don't want the kids & friends climbing all over sacs laying around on the floor.

I've picked up 4 of the 400 lb Supra/Moomba stock sacs (used from members here - the dimensions work out great in my available spaces). 1 in the rear ski locker, 1 under new full length rear bench seat, and 2 under the front play pen (1 on either side). 1600 lbs hidden. I'm also working on the details to have the rear bench seat cushion so it can be moved up top next to the ski locker cover for additional sun deck area (like yours, Jet - thanks for the inspiration). When in this configuration, I can fit another 400 lb sac on top of the one under the rear bench. 2000 lbs essentially hidden (but I give up seating on the rear bench.

For boarding, I can fill 8-1200 lbs in the rear and up to 800 lbs in the front - all balanced port & starbord, 50/50 - 40/60 front to rear. For surfing, the same 8-1200 lbs in the rear and 400 lbs up front on the side we're surfing (or up to 800 in bow and move passengers to the surf side). It's a bigger boat, but I'm guessing (hoping) this is enough to make a beast of a wake boat.

Sorry I can't help with the pumps/plumbing/valves - I'm a newbie to the whole big wake scene (old school - was always looking for the smallest slalom wake before...), so I'll be watching this with great interest as well. Good luck & hope you enjoyed the race.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Hmm interesting problem. I kinda get the same thing, since I want as much hidden as possible.

-Can you get a 350sac in the rear ski locker?

-Consider 2-300 lbs of dry weight. Personally I have some flat dumbell weights that I keep stored in the gunwales. They can also be used to help balance side-to-side.


Personally I would advise to stay away from the large bow sac that takes up the entire bow storage space. This sac is HUGE and I think it is too much bow weight for all but the biggest new Supras.

IMHO it worked great for me to use a pair of V-Drive sacs (400 each). There is some hidden storage space in front of the spotters seat that works great. This leaves you with a lot of storage space left since the sacs are pushed out toward the gunwales. This is also great for surfing because you can drain one side and keep the other filled.

[sybrmike]

Yeah, what Mikey said...

I was gonna go the big bow sac route until I saw Mikey's setup. Makes sense with added flexibility & not giving up all that storage. I also am "stealing" and modifying Jet's added sundeck layout with additional sac storage underneath. I posted my plans just to give an idea of some possibilities (no hijack intended). Sharing and stealing ideas is one of the many great benifits here...

Again, good luck Jet & let us know what you end up with & how it works out.

[dusty2221]

I've gotta say, Jet's modded sun deck is a pretty great idea for older boats. Our 84 Malibu skier had zero room for bags and people, so we always left the bags put away. This would have made it completly different.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I still haven't gotten to call skiers choice to inquire about the launch rear bench seat hard tank base. That would be MONEYYYYY

[jet]

Any other ideas?? Option 3 is 4-bags, will one pump do all 4?? Or should I try 3-bags..700-rear 1100-both sides eng=3 bags?? Will this be to much rear weight? Mikey will this system (below link) work?

http://media.wakemakers.com/2009/08/how-to-reversible-pump-automated-ballast-system-design/

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Jet your latest idea is pretty much how I am set up. Four sacs from one reversable Simer pump. It is a bit slow, but it gets the job done. You are thinking one on rear floor, one in rear ski locker, two in the bow, right?

With four sacs at different heights and different lengths of tubing run, they aren't going to fill at the same rate. Unless you want to use a couple pumps, it is best to put a hand-valve on each sac. When filling or draining, I usually fill or drain two at a time and keep the other two closed. Otherwise the pump works really hard and slows down.

The other problem is that all the sacs are directly connected to each other. So after the pump gets turned off, water wants to move to the lowest height place in the run unless you turn the hand valves off after filling. The lowest sac (floor sac) will slowly fill and fill untill you see it about to burst and say HOLY CRAP! I am still looking for a solution to this to make it totally automated, one idea is a spring check valve near the highest sac, so it stays closed unless the pump is operated.

The wakemakers diagram is great, but on a single Simer system you don't really have to put a thru-hull in your hull for intake (unless you really want to). Also you don't need the drains to be rerouted through yet another hole in your hull. You can drain right out the fill hole which is raw water intake.

[jet]

No 2-side eng sacs..1-rear fat sac holder..and 1-front. How about this option

2-side eng 550's
1-rear fat sac holder 600-700 lbs

they would all be on the floor..same height? would this be better? No nose sac?

[87SunSportMikeyD]

If all three were connected to one pump, I think once you started driving, the side sacs would put a lot of pressure on the rear sac. Are you planning on doing overflow/vent lines? Otherwise if you put a hand valve on each sac there are no worries. Could probably just close the rear sac once all are full and ride.