what should i look for when buying a saltare/sunsport

[drc007]

i must say i am very impressed with this forum and very impressed with the quality of its members.:D yall guys/gals are great.

I am not a supra owner at this time but i am very aware of being on the water. i have 1 1978 invader tri hull that i try to wakeboard behind (HAHA), and ive made up my mind i want a supra saltare or sunsport. I have a few questions about the boats and what i should look for when buying one.

what is the difference between the saltare and the sunsport besides, motor, and boat length?

which is better for wakeboarding and possible hidden ballast one day (Ex lockers, storage areas for fat sacs)?


can you load down the sunsport just as much as the saltare with the stock motor and still pull people up just as easy?


What should i look for when purchasing one of these models?

Thank ya'll so much for the information i really appreciate it

Dalton

[wotan2525]

I don't want to be a negative voice on here... but.... if I had it to do over again? I wouldn't.

I love my boat. Love my setup. It suits me and my needs perfectly... but over the 6 years of ownership, the money and time (time=money) would have been better spent on a MUCH newer boat. I purchased my boat for just under $10k. Since then I've probably put $12k - $15k into it (I've never added it up.... but I bet if I had to it would be AT LEAST $10k in parts alone.)

I've put in new stringers, floors, upholstery, running gear, prop shaft, props, rudder, stereo, stereo, stereo, tower speakers, racks, bimini top. I've buffed, buffed, waxed, buffed, compounded, wet-sanded, and waxed. I've had covers fixed and repaired. I've put on tires and replaced or rebuilt (I think) everything mechanical and/or engine-related on the entire boat.

Did I expect to do any of this when I bought it? Absolutely not. In hindsight should I have taken $18-$25k and bought a v-drive without any wood in it? YES YES YES!! I'm sure I would have put money and maintenance into a newer boat, as well... but... I don't think as much. I haven't had a summer yet where I haven't had to dump at least $1500 in some kind of major project on top of routine maintenance and upkeep.

Boat: a hole in the water to dump money into.

If you can't be talked out of it, or if others on here disagree with me, just make sure that the wood isn't rotten and that the engine makes good compression. At least you'll be better off and more educated than I was when I bought my boat at age 22!

[drc007]

wow wotan2525, ive never looked at it that way. I am 21 now so it kinda hits home. i rebuilt the floor in my grandpa's invader and wow it was alot of work. i definately don't want to do that again. Im pretty much set on getting a boat for myself, i just love being on the water. after all of that said, i will definately try to find a 93 or above sunsport or saltare since i believe they have all glass instead of wood. im curious to ask you how was the condition of the boat when you boat it? ex) how many hours.
thanks
Dalton

[wotan2525]

Mine had around 500 hours on it but that only tells you what is on the engine. The previous owner of mine claimed that the engine had less than 20 hours since being rebuilt. It started right up and made good compression. That didn't prevent it from wiping the cam and eating the rod bearings my first summer out. I also found that he had the alternator and electrical system completely miswired so it drained all the batteries flat all the time (yet it started right up after "being in storage for 3 months" when I test drove it.) Then, when I pulled the engine and rebuilt it, I realized that the stringers were completely rotten when I went to put it back together.

I think it's a lot more about how it was cared for and dryed out during its entire life. If I found a boat that was owned by the original owner, was SUPER clean and well taken care of, had lived INSIDE without a cover for its entire life AND looked good mechanically, I'd consider it. I think what kills these boats is being put away wet with a cover on them trapping all that moisture in there -- or... being left outside where the rain/moisture just finds its way into all of the stringers. It's half science/nature and half bad/lazy engineering on Supras part.

[drc007]

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it. Where and how is the best way to look for stringer rot in your opinion when I go finally look at some supras if they aren't all glass?

[MATTH53]

You can buy my saltare....I'll let it go for 14k ish haha....I am just finishing all the work, well most of the work wotan was talking about.....new floors(stringers where good) was a one owner and I am just about to finish all the new upholstery....I live in Seattle Washington so I am sure it would be one hell of a drive from where ever you are haha

[drc007]

With all this talk about floor repairs yall have me worried. And ya seattle would be. Long way from east tx. Haha. How's the repair coming?

[wotan2525]

Thanks for all the advice I really appreciate it. Where and how is the best way to look for stringer rot in your opinion when I go finally look at some supras if they aren't all glass?

Engine mount bolts. The first tell-tale sign of stringer rot is if any of these bolts are lose or coming lose. Put a wrench on them and make sure they a tightening into good wood. Check all of the compartments and make sure they are dry and fairly mold/mildew free. Mold/mildew = water, water=rot. I'd check for any soft spots in the floor all the way around. These are probably the easiest places to check without starting to drill holes in a boat that you don't own.

[saltare inverts]

I got my saltare for 6300. I have put about 2500 in her. I have been very pleased and she is getting pretty dialed in. The wake is monstorous clean and thick. I have people ask me how old it is often and they all think its 2000 or newer. Usually an average guess of 2005. I cant say I havnt put a ton of elbow grease into it but Its the hobby that keeps me sane in winter months.

[sybrmike]

I've got the cap off and outer stringers about to go back in on an 89 Saltare - waay behing schedule (real job just won't let up...). Even though there were some telltale signs of neglect, I thought I was gonna get off lucky since all my driveline bolts were tight. Even facing a complete rebuild now, I still think it's worth it (to me, at least) since I got it for under $2k. If I make in under $10k with all that Wotan has done, I figure I'm still ahead of the game - basically a new boat with no payment.

If you can find a post 92 era all fiberglass boat in good condition within your budget, then by all means jump on it. Otherwise shop long and hard - 20 year old boats with good stringers, floor, and foam are hard to find (regardless of make). Be prepared to pay and budget accordingly.

Driveline bolts are usually a good indicator (not in my case), also look where the gas tank straps attach at the front to the inner stringers, the tow pylon mounts, and any soft spots in the floor (sure indicator there's water down below...). Good luck in your quest.

[drc007]

Thanks for the advice guys I really appreciate it. I'm pretty much set on getting a saltare. I'm in no big hurry I just want something I can work on this fall/winter. I would love to find a all fiberglass saltare but it seems they are notoriously rare from what I've gathered so far. I will forsure look at all of those places for rot if I go look at any of the older models. From ya'lls experience when looking for your boat was it hard to find one or are the fairly commonly for sale?

Dalton

[Okie Boarder]

Looks like everyone got you covered on what to look for as far as rot, etc.

I wouldn't rule out the Sunsport. I don't think there are huge differences between the Sunsport and Saltare, other than length. You might have an easier time finding a Sunsport. I think (the Saltare guys can correct me if I'm wrong) it will take more weight to really boost the wake on the Saltare compared to the Sunsport. I'd definitely look at 92+ models to get away from wood, unless you want to embark on a full rebuild. If you have'nt already, check out my thread to see what a rebuild entails.

I bought my Sunsport for $6500. It was in good shape with upholstery already redone. Also the PO had replaced the floor (although I found out during the rebuild that he kinda did a minimalist job on that). I didn't realize what was lurking below or I would have tried to talk him down on price. I'm probably about $4000 on my rebuild and I feel it is worth what I paid and what I put into it so far for what I have. I would rather have some fun restoring the boat and investing along the way than to pay $15-20-25k for a newer boat and have a boat payment. That's my personal opinion.

If you go with the no wood models, you won't have to worry about the stringers and floor and you can focus energy, time and money into other parts of the boat. No matter what, you're going to spend money fixing, restoring, or upgrading things so you should decide what your baseline dollar amount is to get a boat and how much you want to spend after that. That can help you decide what age to look for and what condition you would seek.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Hey there DRC. Time for my 2cents. :) IMHO there are two ways to get into these boats and be happy long-term. You can search for a boat that has been babied with a higher starting price. Or you can go for a boat that you KNOW needs repairs and you can discount the price appropriatly.

If you get a boat for $2k, any repair is pretty easy to stomache.

I bought my boat knowing the complete ownership and storage history. I also was as careful to check the motor mounts and the floors as possible. With that said, if my stringers need repair in the next couple years I would probably cry a little. :)

But at the same time most of the things that I have done to my boat are 'cosmetic upgrades'. I have repaired some items and tuned my motor, but I have not had to replace the running gear or shaft/strut, no major engine problems, etc. Sure I have upgraded MANY things like tower, ballast, stereo, alt, prop, fresh air exhaust, board racks, and tower mirror. But other than changing spark plugs and plug wires (and this summer we need to change some gaskets, and the elec ignition and we broke) I have not spent major money on repairs, or had any major down time.

I bought my boat for $7500 (down from $9000 asking) with 600 hours. My boat has had two owners who use it for barefooting (less than 50 hours a year is not much use). It was always trailered and always stored in a garage. Original interior in mint condition and original carpet is a good sign of the boat's treatment over the years.

Best of luck.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Continued...

The Saltaire has the 454 motor so more power and more gas usage. Rememner how displacement works - a bigger boat takes more weight to sink it down for a bigger wake. The hull shapes are not identical. Some purists say the SunSport is the better hull. But others out there say the Saltaire is capable of making a bigger wake IF you weight it enough.

Personally I use 1500lbs in my SunSport for a poppy wake about top-of-shins high (and I think I could do a little bigger wake with more weight). I have learned two new flips in two summers. THe surf wave is between waist and belly button if you get it dialed, which is GREAT for an older boat like this. Only the biggest/best surf boats have more than this wave imho.

[thsmith10]

So I've learned in this thread that 1992+ is a good Supra to look at because there isn't any wood. Is there still foam that can get saturated and cause the boat to lean to one side? With the money I may have to spend in the next few years for upholstery and to repair my leaning, I may also look into buying up to a newer model and then doing some cosmetic work.

[drc007]

Continued...

The Saltaire has the 454 motor so more power and more gas usage. Rememner how displacement works - a bigger boat takes more weight to sink it down for a bigger wake. The hull shapes are not identical. Some purists say the SunSport is the better hull. But others out there say the Saltaire is capable of making a bigger wake IF you weight it enough.

Personally I use 1500lbs in my SunSport for a poppy wake about top-of-shins high (and I think I could do a little bigger wake with more weight). I have learned two new flips in two summers. THe surf wave is between waist and belly button if you get it dialed, which is GREAT for an older boat like this. Only the biggest/best surf boats have more than this wave imho.

thanks for the advice I've thought about the sunspott and to be honest either will work for me. The reason I liked the saltare was because it is bigger and a bigger motor. But from your perspective I realize that the larger saltare would take much more weight to throw the ideal wake. I want a boat that I won't want to upgrade for a long time. . Saying that mikey would u post some pics of your wakeboarding wake? And can you load down the boat with people and ballast and still have no problem pulling up people. Also in the sunsport is there plenty of room for a hiddEn ballast . And how come some of the sunsports I see have a fiberglass swim deck instead of the wood deck.

[drc007]

oh ya and i forgot to say to Okie boarder. i looked over your complete 54 page thread last night. all i can say is thats amazing... you've done a fantastic job.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

I have no problems with six passengers in my boat. I can take up to eight but that is a little crowded with all the gear. The Saltaire would have some more room. My other big issue was the gas consumption. My 351 SunSport still goes through about 6-8 gallons in a full day of riding while weighted, also couple hours spent floating.

Yes you can fully load the boat and have no problems with hole-shot or getting on plane quickly, however that is more a function of your propellor. Stock propellor can pull about 4 people and 800lbs ballast but it gets on plane pretty slowly. The other issue is that when wakeboarding, your speeds are very slow. A new prop helps it hold the low speed much better while still staying on plane.

I spent $350 (and there is a group buy discount right now) on a new prop that is much more powerful. With full weight and crew it rips out of the hole. However top speed is reduced about 5mph.

There is plenty of room in the SunSport to hide sacs if you are creative. I use a 350lb sac in my rear ski locker, 250lb under the rear bench seat. Then in the bow I use TWO 400lb sacs. This is the setup for wakeboarding. To max out the wake it needs a little more in the rear than this. I use some dry weight to help here. Lead would work but I use dumbell weights. Right now I only have 100lbs but I would like to increase to about 350lbs.

For surfing, we use the 350+250 rear sacs, but we only keep ONE of the bow sacs full (whichever side we are surfing on). Then I have a 720lb surf sac in storage that we take out and put on the floor. This is the only not-hidden sac.

The swim platform is teak in earlier years and fiberglass (no maitenance) in '89 and up usually. Those models usually have zero decorative teak wood to be oiled.

Here is my start to finish diary. It has tons of wake photos and videos. :)
https://forum.supraboats.com/showthread.php?t=3630

Here is my video collection. Wake, surf, and fat sac tour vids
http://www.vimeo.com/user2034462/videos

Here is my comprehensive photo gallery with all my pics in one place. Also other SunSports, other surf shots. Tower install, shots of my wake and air compared to my old I/O and lots more. :) It has over 187,000 view that is just insane.
http://photos.wakeboarder.com/showgallery.php/ppuser/35518/cat/500

[drc007]

mikeyD, thanks for the help. i will keep ya'll posted on how the search is coming. any further advice is also appreciated. as of now im considering either the soltare or the sunsport so if anyone finds any good deals just let me know.. im not in too big of a hurry

[wotan2525]

My other big issue was the gas consumption. My 351 SunSport still goes through about 6-8 gallons in a full day of riding while weighted, also couple hours spent floating.

Is this accurate?! I think I use 6-8 gallons/hr when surfing or wakeboarding and I've read this is only slightly higher than what the brand new boats use. I can tell you that if I'm out for a full day with a couple hours of riding and a couple hours of chilling we can easily use half a tank (and I think I've got a 40-45gallon tank!)

[Okie Boarder]

I'm thinking mikey meant 16-18. I'm the same way...a full day of boarding easily goes through 20-25 gallons of gas.

[87SunSportMikeyD]

Hmmm well maybe we aren't boarding as much as you. My tank is 18gal. I typically add a 5 gallon tank + another couple/few gallons before we go out to keep it topped off. I think this is correct, but it's been 9 months so I could be wrong! I will update once I start riding haha!

[sybrmike]

I think the usuable seating area is really about the same for the Salt and Sun. Sure the Salt is a few feet longer, but alot of that is up in the bow playpen - 3 might be a little more comfortable up there in a Salt, but still a little cozy. Observer's seat is essentially the same. The Sun has a traditional rear bench for 2-3 whereas the Salt has the funky corner seats for 2 plus the center jump seat for some poor soul. Some Salts did have a double wide captain's chair and it feels like there's a little more walkin' around room in the Salt.

Stats from the manual:

Sunsport Saltare
length 20'-3-1/2" 22'-8"
width (beam) 96" 99"
width (transom) 81" 86"
draft (at stop) 24" 25-1/2"
depth (amidship) 48" 38"
weight (lbs) 2,950 3,450
fuel (gal) 37 46
capacity (persons) 8 10

I think the bigger hull should have the potential for a bigger wake, but gonna take more weight to sink it down. Other than a blown 502, there are few thirstier beasts on the water than a 4 bbl 454.

All that said, I ended up with a Saltare - mainly because of the deal I found. Both are great boats ahead of their time in design and style.

[Okie Boarder]

Mikey,

That seems odd that your tank is so small. I wonder if that is a big change they made in the later 80's.